Video Games and the "Next Generation"

[cl154576]

R e m i n d e r

The OP:
Please do not personalise your arguments.

Posts containing personal attacks or off-topic comments will be removed without further warning

and

posters will receive infraction points.

For those who would like to discuss the video games and their effects can do so in a separate thread.

Does anyone want to continue the tangent?

Also, I would be interested to hear your views about the "next generation" in general – I'm part of this generation, and it's always half-funny, half-offensive to see older people referring to us collectively as technology-addicted, obese diabetic brainwashed idiots who will go absolutely nowhere in life.

What are your thoughts on the topic?

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Maybe you can repeat your thoughts in a kinder manner, cl. :lol:

Personally, I love video games, know tons of people who play video games, and see absolutely nothing wrong with video games. I feel they have more of a positive impact than a negative, especially as technology progresses.

[Paulclem]

At the moment I'm playing Fable 2 and Mass Effect for the x box. Online I play Quake. I really like computer games. The first really effective one was Final Fantasy 7. I've got the battle winning tune on my phone.

There's a lof of guff talked about the negative effects of games. How anyone can make a link between computer games and actual violence, I don't know. I equate it to reading or watching films. It's escapist and completely unrelated to real world conflict. If there were any link, World of Warcraft would have made the whole world a much mre unsafe environment.

As for attitudes to young people - we are bombarded with images and stories of the evil young daily on TV. People have to learn to see through that and regard people not as thugs stuck in time -forever representing disgrutled and violent youth - but as people developing into citizens. The teen vandal of ten years ago is-probably in most cases - working now and being a useful member of society.

[Calidore]

At various times people have said the same about comics, rock music, rap music, roleplaying games, all but the most tasteful horror movies, etc. It's okay not to like something, but weak people need to control others' enjoyments as well.

Currently rotating between a few JRPGS, plus replaying the F.E.A.R. series (except #3) before unloading it. I also need to revisit Portal before buying Portal 2.

[Revolte]

I'm beyond addicted to Little Big Planet 2, honestly I'm really stuck on it. Aside from certain other activities, when my girl comes over we tend to sit on my bed and play it for hours and hours on end lol. I've spent a couple weeks working on a level so far, the games just too fun and reeeeaaaaallly making me want to get that sega genesis collection for ps3, grrr sonic sounds like a lot of fun right now. God I love people for silly platformer games.

Oh and I just got Resident Evil: Directors Cut from psn classics too, it's a bit on the hard side though, you can't outrun the zombies the halls are too small.

[Lokasenna]

Well, I'll be the first to bang the 'games are art' drum. I've always campaigned against the Daily Mail outlook on them, which would have you believe that all video games are brainless gorefests that will transform anyone who comes into contact with them into an obese psychopath. This is clearly drivel.

In many ways, I think my appreciation for games as an art form has fed into my life's work. I've always valued them most as a story-telling medium, and I think this has had a significant impact on my desire to research stories: why we tell them, how we tell them, what images we use, and so forth.

I don't get much lesiure time these days, but I do occasionally like to unwind with a bit of gaming. It's very cathartic.

Heh, the other night my housemates and I dusted off the old N64 and had GoldenEye deathmatches. It was great fun!

[The Comedian]

I used to play video games, but I don't anymore. As I matured, I felt sort of ashamed and embarrassed. "Surely, I can be doing something more productive than this? And, maybe I should devote this much time and energy to developing my OWN character instead of this pixelated one?" I kept asking myself. So one day, I threw my games away, and I have rarely played again.

I quit smokin' cigarettes the same way.

As for their influence on the young, I think that we'll see that, as with most things, video games will have both positive and negative influences. I heartily disagree with anyone who will argue that they have no influence at all. EVERYTHING we do influences us in some way or another. There's no value-neutral, non-influencing experience out there. And people who spend hours a day playing video games are bound to be significantly influenced by them. I mean if you worked out for hours a day? Studied bio-engineering for hours a day? cleaned your house for hours a day? drank whiskey for hours a day? You and your life would certainly be influenced by those activities. Video games are no different.

I think the thing you video-game playin' youn'uns need to ask yourselves is this: Is playing video games sending your life in a positive, upward direction or. . . . . not?

[Vonny]

Well I have learned from this thread, since the people I admire play these games. I didn't know this.

On the other thread it was a person I don't particularly admire who loved games, and when I see a person I don't admire who says they play games it confirms to me that my feeling about the games is correct.

My opinions, I think, still arise from a core fear that was instilled in me that anything on a screen is evil, Satanic even, then I suppose I go through life without fully thinking and I find evidence to support the opinions I have that I don't even remember where I got them to begin with.

[NikolaiI]

Well I have learned from this thread, since the people I admire play these games. I didn't know this.

On the other thread it was a person I don't particularly admire who loved games, and when I see a person I don't admire who says they play games it confirms to me that my feeling about the games is correct.

My opinions, I think, still arise from a core fear that was instilled in me that anything on a screen is evil, Satanic even, then I suppose I go through life without fully thinking and I find evidence to support the opinions I have that I don't even remember where I got them to begin with.

You sound like Zarathustra. :)

[cafolini]

I used to play video games, but I don't anymore. As I matured, I felt sort of ashamed and embarrassed. "Surely, I can be doing something more productive than this? And, maybe I should devote this much time and energy to developing my OWN character instead of this pixelated one?" I kept asking myself. So one day, I threw my games away, and I have rarely any more again.

I quit smokin' cigarettes the same way.

As for their influence on the young, I think that we'll see that, as with most things, video games will have both positive and negative influences. I heartily disagree with anyone who will argue that they have no influence at all. EVERYTHING we do influences us in some way or another. There's no value-neutral, non-influencing experience out there. And people who spend hours a day playing video games are bound to be significantly influenced by them. I mean if you worked out for hours a day? Studied bio-engineering for hours a day? cleaned your house for hours a day? drank whiskey for hours a day? You and your life would certainly be influenced by those activities. Video games are no different.

I think the thing you video-game playin' youn'uns need to ask yourselves is this: Is playing video games sending your life in a positive, upward direction or. . . . . not?

I agree regarding influences. I think there is a time for anything and a time for another anything. Without exploration there is no way to grow.

[JuniperWoolf]

In many ways, I think my appreciation for games as an art form has fed into my life's work.

I don't know too much about Norse myth, but what I do know I learned mostly from Valkyrie Profile. Have you ever played?

[OrphanPip]

I think the thing you video-game playin' youn'uns need to ask yourselves is this: Is playing video games sending your life in a positive, upward direction or. . . . . not?

It's essentially a leisure activity though, what would you expect from it? I imagine most people get out of it the same thing anyone gets out of a relaxing activity that they enjoy.

There are very few things I do that send my life in an "upward direction." If I committed myself solely to activities that would improve me, I'd likely have to quit my job, stop watching tv, stop posting on the internet, not bother reading fiction or poetry, stop going to movies, and probably do away with interacting with quite a few people in my life.

Moreover, I don't even think we should accept the premise that we should care about doing things that are positive, or probably better designated as "productive." What does it matter whether people are improving themselves if they are enjoying the life they live.

[Vonny]

Moreover, I don't even think we should accept the premise that we should care about doing things that are positive, or probably better designated as "productive." What does it matter whether people are improving themselves if they are enjoying the life they live.

This is a very good point. And boy, it sure takes the pressure off! I've been thinking tonight that my problem is that I haven't played video games - I've never played one. I've never even bothered to watch someone else play one. I'm just not into these. I would rather go to the lake and just sit and watch the ducks.

I have a phobia of video. If I'm in a public lobby surrounded by TVs and video games, I go outside even if it's cold outside and I'm not dressed warmly. I struggle to get beyond this, but I can't and I get tired of trying. It's just not for me.

[Lokasenna]

I don't know too much about Norse myth, but what I do know I learned mostly from Valkyrie Profile. Have you ever played?

I've played a bit, though only after I started studying Old Norse. I'm afraid I find it difficult to play games or watch movies based upon the mythology, because my inner monologue keeps shouting about how wrong they got everything! When I said stories, I more meant stories in general - the use of archetypes and so forth.

That said, I have had a potential conference paper/journal article brewing at the back of my mind on the use of Old Norse motifs in modern electronic media. The post-medieval reception of medieval texts is a big thing at the moment, and I reckon I could make something quite interesting out of it.

[The Comedian]

It's essentially a leisure activity though, what would you expect from it? I imagine most people get out of it the same thing anyone gets out of a relaxing activity that they enjoy.

I'm confused. Are you stating that all leisure enjoyment is the "same thing"? So watching porn = attending a hockey game = talking with a friend = trout fishing = reading poetry = playing video games = cooking a nice meal = shoe shopping = posting on Litnet? If so, then I disagree with the idea: sure all of these things have an element of enjoyment and relaxation, but those are not the only aspects to each activity. Nor is each leisure promoting the same type of enjoyment, nor are all enjoyments of the same worth over the short and long term of one's life.


There are very few things I do that send my life in an "upward direction." If I committed myself solely to activities that would improve me, I'd likely have to quit my job, stop watching tv, stop posting on the internet, not bother reading fiction or poetry, stop going to movies, and probably do away with interacting with quite a few people in my life.

I did not intend for this extreme an interpretation. I'm sorry if it expressed it as such. By "positive, upward direction" I did not mean that our leisure time must have steady stream of transcendental revelation or bust attitude. Just this: that our leisure time is precious and that it is easy to let the best of ourselves slip away to distraction. And that our entertainment should bolster rather than pull down our minds, spirits and futures.


Moreover, I don't even think we should accept the premise that we should care about doing things that are positive, or probably better designated as "productive." What does it matter whether people are improving themselves if they are enjoying the life they live.

Again I'm confused with your argument that we should not care what people are doing insofar as they are enjoying themselves. My neighbor has a son in his early 20s who drives over twice the speed limit in our subdivision. He clearly enjoys driving fast and being defiant. So when my daughters are learning to ride their bikes on that same subdivision road, and I see him whip around the corner and swerve to miss my kids, I should say to my children: "See that guy? He's having fun. That's all that matters, girls."

Back to video games -- surely they are not as immediately dangerous as my fun-loving neighbor described above. I'm just still not sure they're the best thing to do with one's time. But I could be wrong. I'd love to hear an argument that playing video games is better for someone than some the the hobbies that you mention.

But if you're truly of the position that all leisure enjoyments are the same and that they serve only one function: pleasure, then we'll just have to disagree on this foundational premise, have a couple beers, and turn on the Sega (or whatever it is you youngsters play these days ;) ). . . :smilewinkgrin:

[Emil Miller]

This is a very good point. And boy, it sure takes the pressure off! I've been thinking tonight that my problem is that I haven't played video games - I've never played one. I've never even bothered to watch someone else play one. I'm just not into these. I would rather go to the lake and just sit and watch the ducks.

I have a phobia of video. If I'm in a public lobby surrounded by TVs and video games, I go outside even if it's cold outside and I'm not dressed warmly. I struggle to get beyond this, but I can't and I get tired of trying. It's just not for me.

Your last sentence says it all. Why consider doing something when you have no interest in it? There are people who are fanatical about football and pop music; in fact these make up a large proportion of some people's leisure time in the UK. Personally, I see nothing in either that would interest me, and never have, but I have more than enough things that do interest me and I don't miss what I have no time for.

[OrphanPip]

I'm confused. Are you stating that all leisure enjoyment is the "same thing"? So watching porn = attending a hockey game = talking with a friend = trout fishing = reading poetry = playing video games = cooking a nice meal = shoe shopping = posting on Litnet? If so, then I disagree with the idea: sure all of these things have an element of enjoyment and relaxation, but those are not the only aspects to each activity. Nor is each leisure promoting the same type of enjoyment, nor are all enjoyments of the same worth over the short and long term of one's life.

Nor are they fundamentally different, what business does anyone have setting up hierarchies of what is legitimate past-times and what are illegitimate ones. It is nothing more than a plain prejudice to say that people who are playing video games are wasting their time.



I did not intend for this extreme an interpretation. I'm sorry if it expressed it as such. By "positive, upward direction" I did not mean that our leisure time must have steady stream of transcendental revelation or bust attitude. Just this: that our leisure time is precious and that it is easy to let the best of ourselves slip away to distraction. And that our entertainment should bolster rather than pull down our minds, spirits and futures.

I have to call bull****, most people do not spend their leisure time doing anything of the sort.



Again I'm confused with your argument that we should not care what people are doing insofar as they are enjoying themselves. My neighbor has a son in his early 20s who drives over twice the speed limit in our subdivision. He clearly enjoys driving fast and being defiant. So when my daughters are learning to ride their bikes on that same subdivision road, and I see him whip around the corner and swerve to miss my kids, I should say to my children: "See that guy? He's having fun. That's all that matters, girls."

No, I said that whether or not people are improving themselves is unimportant relative to whether they are enjoying their life. Not that nothing matters as long as people are enjoying themselves, there is certainly no implication in the former statement that people are free to endanger others as they wish.



Back to video games -- surely they are not as immediately dangerous as my fun-loving neighbor described above. I'm just still not sure they're the best thing to do with one's time. But I could be wrong. I'd love to hear an argument that playing video games is better for someone than some the the hobbies that you mention.

Video games are no different than any other form of games, a fundamental aspect of human behaviour prevalent in every culture. They are fully capable of engaging the mind with a narrative like any other story telling medium, they include elements of problem solving, they have been shown to improve hand-eye coordination, they provide outlets for social interactions between people of similar interest, they provide an alternate outlet for healthy competition, and they can be beneficial in many other ways. However, none of that really matters. I think the entire endeavour of trying to set up hierarchies of leisure activities is nothing more than an attempt at appeasing the ego with delusions that anything we do really matters in the long run. What more could we wish for than a life enjoyed and lived comfortably? When we're gone it matters little whether we could recite Latin poetry or understand post-structuralist philosophy.



But if you're truly of the position that all leisure enjoyments are the same and that they serve only one function: pleasure, then we'll just have to disagree on this foundational premise, have a couple beers, and turn on the Sega (or whatever it is you youngsters play these days ;) ). . . :smilewinkgrin:

I neither drink or play games frequently, but I won't condescend to others about what they choose to do in the liberty of their free time.

[The Comedian]

I think the entire endeavour of trying to set up hierarchies of leisure activities is nothing more than an attempt at appeasing the ego with delusions that anything we do really matters in the long run.

Alright then. I see that I misunderstood you on several points. But I think that I am correct in that we disagree on a basic principle. (the one above, I believe). You believe that a "hierarchies of leisure activities" is false, that all leisure activities are value-neutral, that none are better or worse than another. And I believe that some leisure activities offer an individual greater value than others (I waiver on the "hierarchy" idea, but that may be merely an issue of semantics). Okay, so we disagree on this issue.

I'm sorry if I came off as condescending; that wasn't my intention.

[JuniperWoolf]

I'm afraid I find it difficult to play games or watch movies based upon the mythology, because my inner monologue keeps shouting about how wrong they got everything!

Haha, I bet it would. That reminds me of one friend that I have who lives for playing guitar, he could rant about Guitar Hero for days.

[Griffith]

Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy 7 and The Legend of Zelda, ocarina of time are the best games ever. The rest is degeneration.

[JuniperWoolf]

There's a thread now that asks what names they don't like to be called by men, and one of them is "lady."

Well, I don't really like to be called names other than what I designate by women - not in this context.

So?


How can someone here say that I'm obviously not in the business of social research?

Because you don't know anything about social research? It isn't exactly a stretch.


Am I being criticized for criticizing Satanists? A Satanist if it exists is a Satanist. It's on the order of a racist. No one defends racists.

Actually, a lot of metal heads describe themselves as "Satanists," referring more to the mythology behind his war against the tyranny of the Christian god a la Paradise Lost. They consider Satan a kind of parable to their own unwillingness to "fit in" to the sort of campy image of the good sheep attending church and shutting up in the presence of authority figures. Kind of teen-angsty I know, but hardly "on the order of a racist."


I don't think that scientific inventions have sped up. This is software development. It's not a cure for cancer. And I never called anyone an idiot, (certainly not regarding video game playing.)

Yeah, medicine has really slowed down since the advent of video games (hint: no it hasn't).

You weren't the one who originally called us stupid, that was someone else. You said that we were likely to be fat and diabetic. Why do you assume that all of my comments are directed at you? There were three or four people on your side of the debate arguing that video games make people fat, lazy, diabetic, stupid and anti-social, you were just one of them. Also, I think that you'd agree that these qualities aren't exactly flattering, and since quite a few people on this forum are gamers and don't embody these characteristics I would also call them false. What's wrong with arguing against something that's insulting and incorrect?


I'm all for women being assertive, but..... this post seems mean-spirited (and notice that I said the post seems mean-spirited and not the person, I'm not judging the person) and based on false accusations.

What does my gender have to do with my personality or opinions? I'll be mean spirited and assertive if I want to, regardless of my genitals (but not to the point of getting banned *cringe*).


I wish I understood some of the things that go on in this world, because I don't think I'd get away with saying something like this to another woman here, even if I had it in me, which I don't.

Again, why are you harping on my gender? I should change my avatar and profile back, I didn't get this kind of guff when I was a non-specific wolf and chicken-in-a-sweater.

[Vonny]

It's not about vision, lady, it's about being fair. Making broad assumptions about groups of people and then putting them forth as fact when you know absolutely nothing about them or what you're passing judgement on is unfair. Being prejudiced against people because of what they do or how they choose to identify themselves without any information at all is one step away from judging them based on how they were born.

You've said yourself that you've never even played a video game and you're obviously not in the business of social research, nor have you ever so much as glanced at a study pertaining to the subject. What merit then are we to attach to your assumption that they are "bad," making us sick, and are causing a halt to our species' advancement? The answer is none. No merit whatsoever. Scientific and technological advancement hasn't even slowed down, it's gotten faster. That's obvious if you would just think for a second. Imagine what someone in the 90's would think of an iPad. Remember the internet in the 90's? Remember what touch screen technology was like, that little bumpy sheet that they pasted over computer screens? You can't seriously believe that people who play video games are idiots who don't invent anything (and you'd be hard pressed to find someone in a computer sciences department who doesn't play video games, or in any other science department at a university for that matter).

This is EXACTLY like the time that you accused Satanists of sacrificing children. No prior information, no proof at all, you just kind of imagine things about groups of people. First it's "I KNOW that Satanists sacrifice babies," then it's "I KNOW that video games have no merit." I mean, my god, what's next? "I KNOW that people with green eyes prefer chocolate ice cream over vanilla." It's ridiculous. It seems like you're the one basing all of your opinions on your ability to "see," since your random assertions closely resemble those of guesswork-esque fortune tellers.

This is the post that you're referring to. It's fair to put this here. It doesn't really fit though because the entire discussion belongs on the other thread where the references to what you're talking about can be found.

You know what? I'm just glad I'm me. :) And a lot of that I owe to my brother David.

[Scheherazade]

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Please do not personalise your arguments.

Off-topic and/or personal posts will be removed without further notice.

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