Englyn Penfyr

[Silas Thorne]

This tongue is not a mirror, it is full

of Frost, the great world-ender.

Let warmth melt sharp points kinder.

[Hawkman]

What a delightful surprise. Not the commonest form to be sure, but you seem to have fulfilled all the qualifying requirements. I think I'll have a go at these. Thanks Silas.

Live and be well - H

[hillwalker]

Silas, a noble effort indeed but forgive me if I put in my three-pennyworth.

Having attended a Welsh-language secondary school where we were taught cynghanedd and how to write englynion (plural of englyn) allow me to elaborate.

An englyn is a Welsh verse form most commonly comprising a 3- or 4-line stanza (in your case 3). The 3-line variety has a strict syllable count of 10 – 7 – 7 and a rhyme scheme A A A where the first A is actually an internal rhyme found in the 7th syllable of the opening line.

So far so good,

BUT each individual line must be also written in cynghanedd (a pattern of harmony involving internal rhyme and/or alliteration)
I can’t actually discern any in this example, unfortunately.

There are 4 common kinds of cynghanedd :

Groes (Criss-Cross) - pronounced grow-ess :
e.g.
O,Take me down to Camden
(where every consonant in the first half of the line is repeated in the second)

Draws (Bridging) pronounced drah-wss :
e.g.
The bard is well-remembered
(where only the consonants of the first main word are repeated at the end and any in between are ignored)

Sain (Sound) pronounced sign :
e.g.
An ill will bodes never well
(where the sound of the first main word is echoed by rhyme in the following word, and the consonants of that following word are repeated in the final word)

and Lusg (Drag) pronounced lease with a g on the end :
e.g
I’m only here for beer-mats
(where the syllable ending the first half of the line is rhymed in the penultimate syllable of the second half of the line).

[There are other forms as well as the englyn – notably the awdl and the cywydd.
In each case all lines are written in cynghanedd, often in rhyming pairs, and these form the basis for much of Welsh bardic literature dating back to the 7th century.

Complicated, I know – and my own examples are distinctly feeble (not least because the nuances of the language make it easier to write cynghanedd in Welsh than English).

End of sermon…

H

[Hawkman]

Well I'm certainly not going to argue with hill's superior knowledge of the form but I still congratulate you for having a go, Silas. :D

[Silas Thorne]

Thanks for that hillwalker, and hawkman for commenting too. :)

I thought you might have had some understanding of Welsh metre, hillwalker. I didn't realize the englyn penfyr had to have cynghanedd in it as well, though I read that other forms require it. Always up for a challenge though, I'll train in it.
Recently, I've been really into Gerard Manley Hopkins', and he often used cynghanedd in his poetry, right? Are there many Welsh poets that have written in these metres in English? Does Dylan Thomas use cynghanedd? I find it hard to look for models outside the Welsh language and I don't know any Welsh at all. I got a book from the library recently called 'An introduction to Welsh poetry from the beginnings to the sixteenth century,' by Gwyn Williams, that outlines about 25 different poetic forms. Thanks for the examples! I often struggle to see how these cynghanedd might work in English - or indeed the englyn and the metrical forms of Welsh verse.
Sorry for the profuse excess of questions, hillwalker. I'm really interested. :)

[Silas Thorne]

'A poem, mistakenly trying to be in the form of Englyn Penfyr' . :)

[hillwalker]

Silas - I hope I Haven't put you off experimenting in the form... but unfortunately an englyn does have to be written in cynghanedd for it to be an englyn.

I'm fairly sure that Dylan Thomas never used cynghanedd, presumably because he wrote exclusively in English (although much of his work was rich in alliteration and internal rhyme).

There is a poet Tony Conran who has written some work in English that utilises the form which you might find interesting; and his volume 'Welsh Verse' also describes in detail the various forms with examples.

H

[Silas Thorne]

Oh no, you haven't put me off the form at all or in training in any of the other Welsh metres, you have only made me more interested. I just realise now that my previous understanding of the form was faulty. Thanks a lot for your advice. I'll look for Tony Conran and that volume you mention. :)

[Silas Thorne]

A challenge this is, hillwalker, chilling!
Though I chase signs for line-talk,
bear with me bloke, I'll not baulk! :)

[hillwalker]

A challenge indeed... the problem being that lines of cynghanedd can often end up sounding more like tongue-twisters than poetry. I shall have to put my thinking cap on - it's so much easier in Welsh.

H

[Silas Thorne]

:) I realised this morning that the final line was all wrong and played with the lines a bit more. I hope this englyn penfyr is a little better :

A challenge this is, hillwalker, chilling,
this changing signs that lines talk.
Bloke, bear with me; I'll not baulk.

Though perhaps cynghanedd could sound like tongue-twisters, they are certainly memorable for the poet (perhaps due to the bardic origins) :), and wrought well, I believe such lines could have a great deal of richness and emotional power even in English.

Sadly, Tony Conran's volume is out of my reach at present. I'll have to make do with what I have until I can get it.

[Silas Thorne]

I'm also wondering when you talk about consonants being repeated, you mean the sound of the consonants right? Would 'cupped' and 'kept' be a repetition of the same consonants? I notice your 'take' and 'to Camden' in the groes example above.

[hillwalker]

Yes - it's the sound rather than the actual letter - so C and K are the same. as would be KEPT, COPIED and QUIPPED. Fortunately there are less consonants in the Welsh language (no J, K, Q, V, X or Z) so it's easier in a way.

H

[Bar22do]

Can't say anything about form accuracy, but loved your Englyn Penfyr from first to last sound and meaning! warm congratulations, Silas!