"The World According to Garp" Group Reading

[Scheherazade]

Would anyone be interested in reading The World According to Garp by Irving?

I won't mind starting as soon as next week.

[OrphanPip]

I've read it before and can participate in discussion, but I'm not sure I have the time or energy to re-read it this month.

[TurquoiseSunset]

I'll read it with you...if you still want to. Just let me know :)

[Scheherazade]

I'll read it with you...if you still want to. Just let me know :)That'd be great! :)

My copy is available at the library so will try to pick it up sometime this week.

Is October 1st a good start date for you?

[TurquoiseSunset]

That'd be great! :)

My copy is available at the library so will try to pick it up sometime this week.

Is October 1st a good start date for you?

October 1st is perfect. It gives me time to finish what I'm currently reading. :)

[Kayaan]

I might join in to discuss it then. Still quite fresh as I finished it like one or two weeks ago.

[Scheherazade]

Started reading... I will aim for 50 pages a day if that is OK.

Just finished Chapter 2... So far, it is very interesting.

[TurquoiseSunset]

Started reading... I will aim for 50 pages a day if that is OK.

Just finished Chapter 2... So far, it is very interesting.

I also want to read about 50 pages a day, but the weekend has not been very kind to my plans :) I will try to catch up tonight.

I'm liking it a whole lot more than I expected. All the TWATG blurbs I have read made it seem a lot 'heavier' than it actually is.

[Scheherazade]

Have to admit the section about Jenny's experiences at the hospital has been educational for me...

Loved this: "If she is to be a whore, let her at least be clean and well shod."

:D

[TurquoiseSunset]

Have to admit the section about Jenny's experiences at the hospital has been educational for me...

Loved this: "If she is to be a whore, let her at least be clean and well shod."

:D

Hahaha, yes, I know people like that, or rather, parents like that.

"My father was a Goner. From my mother's point of view, that must have made him very attractive. No strings attached." :D Funny and sad at the same time, hehe.

[Scheherazade]

Just finished the the chapters in Austria... Found the parts with prostitutes very touching... especially Charlotte.

And Jenny's approach to life is very interesting... (don't want to spoil it for anyone who hasn't read it yet).

[TurquoiseSunset]

Just finished the the chapters in Austria... Found the parts with prostitutes very touching... especially Charlotte.

I agree. Those chapters could have done without the story-within-a-story bits though. I find that the post-Austria chapters have a different feel...slightly melancholic.

And even though I can't identify with Jenny at all, I do love her. She's a real oddball. :D

[Scheherazade]

Confession: Found it hard to put down the book during the second half so ended up reading more than 50 pages a day and finished it this afternoon.

Enjoyed it much more than I had expected... Much, much, much more than Owen Meany, no doubt.

One thing struck me is that despite the obvious lack of sexual descriptions, somehow Irving managed to make these sections sound "dirty" and "rough"... I have read much more explicit things but not very often felt somewhat disgusted as I did at certain parts of this book.

Any thoughts on that?

[MystyrMystyry]

Yes actually. Self censorship can be more powerful than explicitness when done well. Reaches farther into your subconscious I think.

There was a documentary on Mae West recently dealing with her reputation before the introduction of the film code. She was actually quite tame, but the innuendo was in the 'manner' she spoke her lines.

I remember reading The White Hotel and being disappointed after the reviews telling how daring it was - but it was weak.

[Scheherazade]

Keep thinking about what this book is "about". Is it solely "sexuality" or the author keeps keeping "lust"?

Even the choice of sport was very interesting, I thought: wrestling! It looks like people having sex, does it not? (Or should I drag my dirty mind out of the gutter?)


I will be arranging a viewing for the movie based on this book as well, by the way (after "Fahrenheit 451" on 15th).

[TurquoiseSunset]

Confession: Found it hard to put down the book during the second half so ended up reading more than 50 pages a day and finished it this afternoon.

Enjoyed it much more than I had expected... Much, much, much more than Owen Meany, no doubt.

One thing struck me is that despite the obvious lack of sexual descriptions, somehow Irving managed to make these sections sound "dirty" and "rough"... I have read much more explicit things but not very often felt somewhat disgusted as I did at certain parts of this book.

Any thoughts on that?


Keep thinking about what this book is "about". Is it solely "sexuality" or the author keeps keeping "lust"?

Even the choice of sport was very interesting, I thought: wrestling! It looks like people having sex, does it not? (Or should I drag my dirty mind out of the gutter?)


I will be arranging a viewing for the movie based on this book as well, by the way (after "Fahrenheit 451" on 15th).

I'm sorry that I haven't posted in a while. Last week was hectic, I also had to work over the weekend and had surgery (very minor) on Tuesday so was out of it yesterday as well. So, I had some trouble finding time to read, but not because I didn't like it.

I finally finished it this morning and, like you, enjoyed it a whole lot more than expected. Right after the Austria chapters I started having my doubts though. I wasn't really interested in reading about Garp's day-to-day issues. I can call family members for that. :p Even so, I still couldn't put the book down, and obviously, it got better and better.

I have to agree with you about all the sex. I have never read a book so full of sex, but so lacking in details. I kind of liked it that way, but like you said, Irving still managed to make me feel like I had read the details some how. I also think the gender/feminist issues and "lust" was part of the sex theme. The overall theme for me though was death and the "Under Toad".

I also couldn't help feeling like a lot of Garp's views were Irving's too; the book felt autobiographical in parts.

Overall, a really good book. :)

[Scheherazade]

I'm sorry that I haven't posted in a while. Last week was hectic, I also had to work over the weekend and had surgery (very minor) on Tuesday so was out of it yesterday as well. So, I had some trouble finding time to read, but not because I didn't like it. Hope you are well after the operation! :)


The overall theme for me though was death and the "Under Toad". I was wondering about all the deaths in the book. Almost no one dies of an ordinary death (not sure what that means, really, but humour me please)... Or it felt like that to me. Should make a list of how everyone died.


I also couldn't help feeling like a lot of Garp's views were Irving's too; the book felt autobiographical in parts.I got that feeling too but it would be too easy, wouldn't it? Maybe Irving wanted us to think/feel that way.

Would you like to watch the movie?

[OrphanPip]

I feel like the novel is, at one level at least, about the struggle between mind and body, as vague a thematic focus that is. And I think the sort of awkward treatment of sex and the absurdity of the deaths plays into a frustration about how we relate as moralizing beings to a physical reality that seems so much out of line with what we might want it to be.

Of course, I also think it is a critique of the new feminism of the early 70s, the kind of controversial arguments put forward by someone like Catharine Mackinnon or Andrea Dworkin, who argued that any form of sex between a man and a woman was equivalent to rape and involved the oppression of women. I think what Irving is trying to get at with all the feminist elements is an acknowledgment of how sex can oppress and damage individuals, while also making a plea for a sort of tolerance of individual difference.

I hope that makes some sort of sense, it's been so long since I read it.

[TurquoiseSunset]

I was wondering about all the deaths in the book. Almost no one dies of an ordinary death (not sure what that means, really, but humour me please)... Or it felt like that to me. Should make a list of how everyone died.

All the deaths made me think of Garp stressing about his boys and how futile that was...
"The best laid schemes of mice and men
Go often askew,
And leave us nothing but grief and pain,
For promised joy!"


I got that feeling too but it would be too easy, wouldn't it? Maybe Irving wanted us to think/feel that way.

Hm, I don't know, but either way, I guess, inevitably situations and themes from our own lives will creep into the stories we write, no matter how dissimilar.


Would you like to watch the movie?

Yes. How does it work?

[Scheherazade]

Hm, I don't know, but either way, I guess, inevitably situations and themes from our own lives will creep into the stories we write, no matter how dissimilar.Maybe one can only write about what one knows or experiences?

I don't know.



Yes. How does it work?We have had few group viewings here. We all acquire a copy of the agreed movie, meet here at the agreed time and watch the movie together (ie press on the play button simultaneously), exchanging comments during the movie.

Here is the Viewing Room:

http://www.online-literature.com/forums/group.php?groupid=72


We will be watching "Fahrenheit 451" tomorrow night if you are interested, by the way. The movie is available free on youtube.

[TurquoiseSunset]

About watching TWATG...I can only get the dvd at double the normal price and watching it over the internet will be even more expensive. Internet Access in SA is a rip off. So, even though I would love to see it, I don't think it's going to be possible without costing me a ton.

[Scheherazade]

I feel like the novel is, at one level at least, about the struggle between mind and body, as vague a thematic focus that is.Yes, I also believe it is about the struggle between mind and body... And Garp is always trying to "tame" his body; eg, his devotion to phyrical exercise. There is also a struggle within the mind itself as displayed in our attempts to justifiy our actions. I felt this especially in Garp's novel when the young boy was talking to the poor kidnapped woman, explaining her how he would have to kill her.
And I think the sort of awkward treatment of sex and the absurdity of the deaths plays into a frustration about how we relate as moralizing beings to a physical reality that seems so much out of line with what we might want it to be. The more I think about this, the more I feel that Irving's treatment of sexual issues mirrors our traditional attitude towards sex in general. Even though it is one of the strongest urges in us, we consider it a taboo subject so try not to discuss it explicitly or try not to get involved. "Yes, it does happen but we are not part of it."

And the only time there is any clear references to sex acts in the book, it involves a rape, which would be okay to discuss as part of the news or even gossip.

About watching TWATG...I can only get the dvd at double the normal price and watching it over the internet will be even more expensive. Internet Access in SA is a rip off. So, even though I would love to see it, I don't think it's going to be possible without costing me a ton.Oh, that is a shame, Turquoise. Truth be told, I am not sure how "available" this movie over here either... Haven't checked yet.