Harmful Behaviors

[cl154576]

There is so much stigma surrounding harmful behaviors such as addiction, self-injury, suicide, etc.

What is your view on the subject?

[Paulclem]

There is so much stigma surrounding harmful behaviors such as addiction, self-injury, suicide, etc.

What is your view on the subject?

It's a difficult topic. Part of that is the element of choice that's involved in pursuing a hedonistic lifestyle which can develop into an addiction.

I don't think it's a simple choice though. There are many influences on impressionable people - not least the confusing nature of society's attitudes to drugs and alcohol. It is condemned by authority, whilst being condoned by successful people, celebrities, sportsmen/ women etc etc. The images we see of rich and successful people often just assume a free access to drink and drugs which are portrayed as part of a successful life.

If you are lucky with your peers, you will have a balaced attitude to drugs and alcohol and not fall into the traps. If not, well it's down to luck and perhaps a better sort of friend. Clearly some people have the wrong sort of friend.

I've touched drug circles, and they are cliques of clever people who relish the thought that they are thumbing their noses at conventions etc. How alluring is that to the young and impressionable?

It's a difficult question because what begins as a choice becomes less of a choice as time goes by. I've seen some of the hard attitudes to addicts expressed on the forum, and I can understand that. They become difficult people to help unless they decide to help themselves. People with drug and alcohol problems are selfish, exploitative and self centred. I don't know how much it is in people like this to say no and stop causing the sufferng they do to themselves and others. I think their ability to make the right choices - if not completely gone - is certainly eroded.

Whilst you can't be weak with people like this - there are no easy solutions - behind it should be compassion. They certainly suffer the more for their circumstances.

[Delta40]

I think we start of driving through choices but if we are not careful, we become driven by them, which of course can seriously influence any other choices we make. Paulclem said it much better though because I was having a smoke when I wrote this....

[cl154576]

A lot of people on the forums here have expressed opinions such as addiction being a lack of discipline, suicide being selfish, self-injury being childish, etc. I was wondering if that is the majority, or only some ...

[Scheherazade]

Why not add a poll to the thread to see what people think on the subject?

[cl154576]

Why not add a poll to the thread to see what people think on the subject?

I'll try ...

[Buh4Bee]

Sorry, I voted wrong- meant yes.

[NikolaiI]

I do because I think we're all responsible for each other. It's an idea I got from Father Zosimov in The Brothers Karamazov.

[The Comedian]

I don't always sympathize with all people who have harmful behaviors. Pedophiles? Nope. Misogynists? Nope. People who can't understand the greatness of Walden? Nope.

I do have sympathy for individuals, however.

[Alexander III]

I understand what and and some of why, but I do not sympathise. I do not care if a drug addict overdoses and dies, it was their choice. And yes everyone says that it is not really a choice, but I cant see it being anything but a choice. I have experimented with various drugs, but I reached a point where I knew I may have had a problem and I forced myself to quit. It was hard and unpleasant but I did it. I am pretty weak willed when it comes to hedonism, so if I can do it I don't see any reason someone else cant. Either way little sympathy from me.

And if someone commits suicide, good for them now they are probably happier. I think there is a nobleness in some suicide. It may be also selfish, but so is staying alive many times, but we dont reprimand people for staying alive when they are clearly a drain on others. I admire very much and respect the suicide that comes from honor. Such as the roman or Japanese general who looses a major battle and preforms a ritual suicide, because of the shame of having failed his troops and nation. I think there is am immense beauty of human spirit in that. Or even men Like Lermontov and Pushkin who died individuals defending their honor. I greatly respect that. If there is a reason for death, honor is the finest one.

When it comes to suicide because life has become to painful to bear - I respect that to. It is only fair that they end their pain. I have always like the American Amendment that every individual in entailed to the Pursuit Of Happiness. If one finds it in death, so be it.

Look, I have a tendency to drive drunk. I know it is stupid, but when one is drunk, there is that feeling, it is very strong - and hard to stop oneself from not chasing that feeling. Like having a naked woman in bed and restraining yourself. But this is better than the naked woman in bed.

Though if someone dies in a drunken car accident, I take no sympathy on them, why should I? People should behave as they want, I am all for that - but don't expect others to feel sympathy for you, I don't and I think it is just.

[Paulclem]

I feel sorry for the other people killed by drunken car drivers.

[Delta40]

I feel sorry for the increasing number of youth who self-harm by cutting, scratching and burning etc. The inability to articulate inner turmoil, pain and chaos at this stage of their life has made self-harm the new coping mechanism. There are things parents can do, like make up an alternative self-harm box containing things such as paprika, vicks vapour rub and fine line red gel pens. All of these can cause a great amount of pain without causing lasting scars. However, often the parent doesn't know (or doesn't care)

[Alexander III]

I feel sorry for the other people killed by drunken car drivers.

As do I. I just dont care much for the drivers.

[JuniperWoolf]

As do I. I just dont care much for the drivers.

I do feel bad for the drivers. I've had dumb friends (and I mean it when I say that, I have some really, really dumb friends - you litnet lot would wouldn't even know how to interact with them) who have climbed behind the wheel when they were drunk. They've all had minor accidents, none of them have ever killed anyone but I've often dreaded at what would happen if they did. Most of them are very sweet, kind people, they're just idiots, that's just how they are. They really don't think. They'll get completely smashed and then decide that they want to drive out to the river, and they might kill a little kid or something, everyone in the world would hate them, they would be in prison for manslaughter and worst of all they would have blood on their hands. There must be millions of people like that, normal irresponsible dipsh*ts who have to suffer for the rest of their lives. A person with average human morals could suddenly find themselves a child murderer with the blame completely on their shoulders. Talk about a fate worse than death.

I feel sorry for them, but I'm glad that not many other people do, because the public disapproval is a strong deterrent. It's definately stronger than the threat legal punishment if they happen to be pulled over because in most towns they're confident that they can avoid detection if they take the backroads or something, and most people believe themselves to be pretty good drivers so they don't often consider the thought that they might mow someone down, plus they're wasted.

[Alexander III]

I do feel bad for the drivers. I've had dumb friends (and I mean it when I say that, I have some really, really dumb friends - you litnet lot would wouldn't even know how to interact with them) who have climbed behind the wheel when they were drunk. They've all had minor accidents, none of them have ever killed anyone but I've often dreaded at what would happen if they did. Most of them are very sweet, kind people, they're just idiots, that's just how they are. They really don't think. They'll get completely smashed and then decide that they want to drive out to the river, and they might kill a little kid or something, everyone in the world would hate them, they would be in prison for manslaughter and worst of all they would have blood on their hands. There must be millions of people like that, normal irresponsible dipsh*ts who have to suffer for the rest of their lives. A person with average human morals could suddenly find themselves a child murderer with the blame completely on their shoulders. Talk about a fate worse than death.

I feel sorry for them, but I'm glad that not many other people do, because the public disapproval is a strong deterrent. It's definately stronger than the threat legal punishment if they happen to be pulled over because in most towns they're confident that they can avoid detection if they take the backroads or something, and most people believe themselves to be pretty good drivers so they don't often consider the thought that they might mow someone down, plus they're wasted.

I do it and I know it is idiotic - not because of ones safety but that of others. And if one kills himself because he drunk drove he deserves it. Being an idiot will get one sympathy but not from me.

[Buh4Bee]

Drunk driving is irresponsible and people who do it, don't care about being responsible.

[YesNo]

Look, I have a tendency to drive drunk. I know it is stupid, but when one is drunk, there is that feeling, it is very strong - and hard to stop oneself from not chasing that feeling. Like having a naked woman in bed and restraining yourself. But this is better than the naked woman in bed.

Though if someone dies in a drunken car accident, I take no sympathy on them, why should I? People should behave as they want, I am all for that - but don't expect others to feel sympathy for you, I don't and I think it is just.

I have no sympathy for drunk drivers either, even if no bystander happened to get hurt. Your comment has convinced me to vote "no" on the poll.

But the discussion makes me wonder if there is any self-damaging behavior that only harms the person doing the behavior. Such a person would have to be very isolated.

[Buh4Bee]

The problem here is that you can't isolate a drunk driver; they are on a public road.

I don't agree that people should behave as they want, even if this is not how the phrase was intended. In fact, I think admitting to do this so non-nonchalantly exceeds the limits of my liberal tolerance. Why should someone die for a drunk driver's irresponsible choice? It's a slippery road.

[Vonny]

It's a difficult topic. Part of that is the element of choice that's involved in pursuing a hedonistic lifestyle which can develop into an addiction.

I don't think it's a simple choice though. There are many influences on impressionable people - not least the confusing nature of society's attitudes to drugs and alcohol. It is condemned by authority, whilst being condoned by successful people, celebrities, sportsmen/ women etc etc. The images we see of rich and successful people often just assume a free access to drink and drugs which are portrayed as part of a successful life.

If you are lucky with your peers, you will have a balaced attitude to drugs and alcohol and not fall into the traps. If not, well it's down to luck and perhaps a better sort of friend. Clearly some people have the wrong sort of friend.

I've touched drug circles, and they are cliques of clever people who relish the thought that they are thumbing their noses at conventions etc. How alluring is that to the young and impressionable?

It's a difficult question because what begins as a choice becomes less of a choice as time goes by. I've seen some of the hard attitudes to addicts expressed on the forum, and I can understand that. They become difficult people to help unless they decide to help themselves. People with drug and alcohol problems are selfish, exploitative and self centred. I don't know how much it is in people like this to say no and stop causing the sufferng they do to themselves and others. I think their ability to make the right choices - if not completely gone - is certainly eroded.

Whilst you can't be weak with people like this - there are no easy solutions - behind it should be compassion. They certainly suffer the more for their circumstances.


When I read this, I realized it's true. I tend to think that if I'm not chemically addicted, then why are they? But I don't know. Maybe they were born addicted, or maybe at some point they broke down worse than I have. And maybe, especially after a time, the ability to make the right choices is eroded.

[Alexander III]

I've touched drug circles, and they are cliques of clever people who relish the thought that they are thumbing their noses at conventions etc. How alluring is that to the young and impressionable?


If by drug circles you mean a group of highscholers smoking weed, and thinking they are sticking it to the man and are true rebels, when in truth they smoke and sleep and eat and laugh on their couches all day - then yes. But those are hardly drug circles, any more than the 16 year old drinking 3 pints and throwing up is an alchoholic.

In real drug circles I have seen - there is no pride and satisfaction of thought thinking they are rebels sticking it to the man. There is no feeling of superiority over all those little bourgoise.

What there is, is a strong sense of fate and predestination - and a knowlege of being born damned. There is a sense of self-pity and rage for being damned, and in every movement there is a knowlege of rolling ahead like a train towards their final damnation. There is little arrogance - and there is much envy for the conventions of society; and there are many sardonic smiles. Knowing that life is to ridicoulous to be taken seriosuly. And knowing that them and all of them were born damned.

[virginiawang]

I am sorry I cannot agree with my last poster. People who drink cannot be prouder. Though I cannot drink due to my health problems, I do feel a sense of pride in people who drink. I do not like the way you desrcribed people who drink and eat opium, for most of them belong to the evil world, as far as I know. Rather than the word you chose, " to pity themselves", I am firmly convinced that " to love themselves and feel pride for who they are" is a better choice. A good gangster does not pity himself for who he is, and instead, he feels good about himself, feels himself above all.



What there is, is a strong sense of fate and predestination - and a knowlege of being born damned. There is a sense of self-pity and rage for being damned, and in every movement there is a knowlege of rolling ahead like a train towards their final damnation. There is little arrogance - and there is much envy for the conventions of society; and there are many sardonic smiles. Knowing that life is to ridicoulous to be taken seriosuly. And knowing that them and all of them were born damned.

Fate is an unpredictable idea that all must subject themselves to, and predestination is what I firmly believe in, since I was pretty young. However nobody thinks they will perish the moment they were born. Though we all advance towards our death day after day, nobody likes to be portrayed as waiting for some " final damnation" ( the words you suggested ) A great gangster does feel pride for who he is and whatever he does, though he may not be justified in the eyes of the world, and it is because of some reasons I do not have time to give now. Those who agree with me will grasp my meaning without further asking me, whereas those who do not agree with me will never agree with me, no matter how much I dwell upon the subject. A great gangster never feels envy for whatever people enjoying a high social rank and it is because those ranked among the high in society must say "yes" to a great gangster, no matter what they are required of. More often than not, a great gangster laughs at the bad world.

[Alexander III]

I am sorry I cannot agree with my last poster. People who drink cannot be prouder. Though I cannot drink due to my health problems, I do feel a sense of pride in people who drink. I do not like the way you desrcribed people who drink and eat opium, for most of them belong to the evil world, as far as I know. Rather than the word you chose, " to pity themselves", I am firmly convinced that " to love themselves and feel pride for who they are" is a better choice. A good gangster does not pity himself for who he is, and instead, he feels good about himself, feels himself above all.



Fate is an unpredictable idea that all must subject themselves to, and predestination is what I firmly believe in, since I was pretty young. However nobody thinks they will perish the moment they were born. Though we all advance towards our death day after day, nobody likes to be portrayed as waiting for some " final damnation" ( the words you suggested ) A great gangster does feel pride for who he is and whatever he does, though he may not be justified in the eyes of the world, and it is because of some reasons I do not have time to give now. Those who agree with me will grasp my meaning without further asking me, whereas those who do not agree with me will never agree with me, no matter how much I dwell upon the subject. A great gangster never feels envy for whatever people enjoying a high social rank and it is because those ranked among the high in society must say "yes" to a great gangster, no matter what he is required of. More often than not, a great gangster laughs at the bad world.


Im guessing that this great gangster is not a heroin addict which is what I know and was describing - rather he seems more of an adolescent playing world of warcraft in his mothers house...and drinking beer and smoking weed like a mother ****ing rebel

[Paulclem]

If by drug circles you mean a group of highscholers smoking weed, and thinking they are sticking it to the man and are true rebels, when in truth they smoke and sleep and eat and laugh on their couches all day - then yes. But those are hardly drug circles, any more than the 16 year old drinking 3 pints and throwing up is an alchoholic.

In real drug circles I have seen - there is no pride and satisfaction of thought thinking they are rebels sticking it to the man. There is no feeling of superiority over all those little bourgoise.

What there is, is a strong sense of fate and predestination - and a knowlege of being born damned. There is a sense of self-pity and rage for being damned, and in every movement there is a knowlege of rolling ahead like a train towards their final damnation. There is little arrogance - and there is much envy for the conventions of society; and there are many sardonic smiles. Knowing that life is to ridicoulous to be taken seriosuly. And knowing that them and all of them were born damned.

No I didn't mean kids - the highschool kids you refer to.

I know nothing of the people you know of course. The ones I knew I wouldn't describe in such apocalyptic terms. They were arrogant, unconventional, clever and were also happy to drag people into their way of living without them really becoming friends. They might have been friendly, even charming in that us against the world kind of way. I was much younger then, and I found the lifestyle potentially attractive, but i knew it was pointless. Spend any amount of time with them, and you then begin to see the downside - the poverty, lack of family, the drug/ alcohol rehab visits, the transience, the debts, the dodgy associates, the wreckedness of them.

I think the point I was making was that these people initially seem attractive - particularly to young and impressionable people, but they are bad friends. No friends at all in fact.




Those who agree with me will grasp my meaning without further asking me, whereas those who do not agree with me will never agree with me, no matter how much I dwell upon the subject.

Oh - no discussion possible then?

[virginiawang]

Im guessing that this great gangster is not a heroin addict which is what I know and was describing - rather he seems more of an adolescent playing world of warcraft in his mothers house...and drinking beer and smoking weed like a mother ****ing rebel

You are totally wrong. I am thirty four. What do I have to do with an adolescent kid?

He is a great gangster, and he will save me at the most critical moment.

[Themis]

There is so much stigma surrounding harmful behaviors such as addiction, self-injury, suicide, etc.

What is your view on the subject?

A lot of people on the forums here have expressed opinions such as addiction being a lack of discipline, suicide being selfish, self-injury being childish, etc. I was wondering if that is the majority, or only some ...

I think people who injure themselves on purpose or who try to commit suicide or who are addicted to something are seriously ill and should be treated as such. I do sympathize with them, but I'm not sure what you mean by a stigma. It doesn't seem to me to be something you should be proud of; obviously there's no need to be ashamed either, but does it have to be rated?

Re the "drunk driver" discussion: I do pity the driver, too. Unless he got into his car to purposely go on a killing spree, he didn't mean to do any harm. He was simply being careless. I don't condone this kind of behaviour, but I wouldn't say anyone deserves death for it either.

[Paulclem]

Re the "drunk driver" discussion: I do pity the driver, too. Unless he got into his car to purposely go on a killing spree, he didn't mean to do any harm. He was simply being careless. I don't condone this kind of behaviour, but I wouldn't say anyone deserves death for it either.

It's a situation that no-one intends, but then the causes of the drnk driving and subsequent accidents are by choice. No-one wins, but the worst loser is usually an innocent victim.

[Delta40]

My brother is a druggie addict with alot of personality. He is an ongoing drunk driver too. He like other druggies are not bound by a sense of fate. He endeavours to seal it by not addressing the underlying problems. I mean that would take effort and energy wouldn't it? So in that context, its easier just to stay at the bottom of the barrel and philosophize about destiny and other bullcrap as if he knew something the rest of us don't!

But behind the facade of being a cool dude, his kids are angry and embarrassed by his lifetime of letting them down. His wife lives in denial and he actually hates his own guts and uses these bouts of depression as further proof he is an artiste. Sticking it to the man when you're young is fine but middle aged? Absolutely pathetic and while I'm not without empathy, I am on ration when it comes to him and his enabling wife who together have subjected their kids to this.

[virginiawang]

are angry and embarrassed by his lifetime of letting them down.
It was quite interesting to learn yesterday that my grandma and my female parent must say " yes" and beg me with respect, no matter how angry they were, how elegant they were? They disliked me and my friend; however they must respect us. funny indeed?

[Delta40]

I'm a late comer and haven't read your posts V. I have no idea why you need to be begged with respect by your peers.

[virginiawang]

I'm a late comer and haven't read your posts V. I have no idea why you need to be begged with respect by your peers.
I love grandma, and will be glad if she wants to be my peer. Her daughter can never become my peer. She also despises me more than anyone can have imagined. I do not have anything to do with her now, because I also despise her. Dogs I see on the roads are much better in everyway than she is, I think.