The trend of adapting classic novels into musicals

[kelby_lake]

It started with Les Miserables and the popularity of that show has spawned musical adaptations of other classic novels:

The Secret Garden
A Tale of Two Cities (which clearly aims to be the new Les Mis and fails)
Anna Karenina
Doctor Zhivago
The Hunchback of Notre Dame

What do you think of the practice? Have you enjoyed any of the above musicals? Are there any novels which you think would make a good musical?

[Calidore]

Johnny Got His Gun could use some lightening up. Johnny can't sing, obviously, but he can keep time on the pillow.

[Lokasenna]

I remember a few years ago while I was revising for the Shakespeare part of my finals, I did procrastinate by sketching out the musical parts for Richard III: The Musical. It didn't go anywhere, of course, but it amused me to put Shakespeare's words to tune. I think the idea might have so credence in the hands of a better composer than I.

I like musicals, but live so far from the West End that I've never seen one in the flesh. As such, I tend to like the famous ones, and have no knowledge of the obscure ones.

[Ecurb]

It all started with the horrid "West Side Story" (which, I'll grant, is an adaptation of a play, not a novel). I liked "Les Miz", though. It's a shame that there aren't more original musicals, these days. Because Broadway caters to tourists, the big hits have been revivals and Disney cartoon remakes, with which Mary and John from Des Moines are already familiar. Lion King, Beauty and the Beast, Mary Poppins and others have been running for years.

[mal4mac]

I think the film version of "West Side Story" is wonderful. It made Bernstein and Sondheim, though is just a minor sparkle in the glory that surrounds Shakespeare, of course. What don't you like about it? It's one of the few musicals that has been popular with Joe Public, and is admired by serious classical enthusiasts - and IMHO it deserves its wide acclaim. I can usually only take very small doses of Opera, and get kinda bored with most musicals, but there are a few exception - West Side Story, Magic Flute, My Fair Lady, Cabaret...

To get back to the thread, Cabaret was based on Isherwood's "Goodbye to Berlin". I think it worked because the cabaret scene could readily be linked to the plot of the novel. Great songs and great singing, as well, of course.

Maybe "The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie" would work? You could set it during the Edinburgh festival and move gently from "fascist angst" to "musical number", and back again... in a similar way to Cabaret... and have great architectural backdrops... Brodie fancied herself as an art-lover so it wouldn't be much of a stretch to make her and her girls into singers...

[Ecurb]

I was mainly givng Kelby a hard time, because we've disagreed about West Side Story before. However, since you ask, here are some of my objections to the movie (I haven't seen the show):

1) The two leads are probably the worst actors in history, and they can't sing.

2) The score is cloying. "I Feel Pretty" may be the most nauseating song in the history of Broadway. How Sondheim manged to pen lyrics like: "Say it loud and there's music playing, say it soft and it's almost like praying" in "Maria" is anyone's guess.

3) The gang members -- whose dances are supposed to capture the pent-up energy and angst of disaffected youth-- resemble (dare I say) ballerinas more than gang members.

4) The plot of Romeo and Juliet has been dumbed down, as has the language. The wise old Jewish drugstore owner is an embarrassment (and, in general, the older generation has been eliminated).

5) When one's mind's ear hears, "Oh, I am fortune's fool", the best the musical can come up with is, "Maria!"

6) I'll grant that some of the numbers are OK. The dance in the gym is probably the best number -- because it is a "backstage" number, that doesn't attempt too much. Nonetheless, I think the movie (which won an Academy Award) is overrated, probably because it has the imprimatur of "high art" -- with Bernstein's and Shakespeare's classical credentials. Since I love musicals, that particular imprimatur doesn't impress me.

[OrphanPip]

The "ballerina" gang members, which is more contemporary jazz dance than ballet, was a huge innovation for the musical though. Shaping the choreography around the music in such a manner had not been done on such a scale before. Anyway, the importance of West Side Story aside. It doesn't matter what the source is, reinterpreting familiar stories is a pretty much standard form of artistic expression as far back as art has existed. Shakespeare didn't invent the plot to Romeo and Juliet, so who cares if the plot is dumbed down, the plot isn't exactly brilliant to begin with.

Cabaret isn't actually adapted from the Berlin Stories though, it's adapted from a play that was adapted from the stories, so it is twice removed from the novel. As a play musical Cabaret is much weaker than the film, where Fosse's ability to juxtapose scenes directly adds much to the work.

[Ecurb]

The dances in West Side Story were choreographed by Jerome Robbins, who was a classically trained choreographer. This (I think) added to the "highbrow" appeal of the musical. I'll grant that West Side Story was innovative (in its orignal stage incarnation). However, I'm not sure all the innovations were positive for musical theater. The backstage numbers that were so popular in the pre-WW2 musicals yielded to numbers that were integrated into the show -- which was sometimes positive and sometimes negative. Rogers and Hammerstein were often credited with this innovation (a decade prior to West Side Story). However, I'm not sure the Rogers and Hammerstein shows (or songs) were actually any better than the earlier Rogers and Hart productions.

Of course the dance in the gym was a backstage number -- maybe that's why I like it better than the more integrated numbers.

One more West Side Story point: I think the dances probably worked better on stage. Numbers like "Something's Coming" or "America" have an energy to them that live dancers can share with the audience. But it's a stylized energy. When transported fromt he stylized sets of a stage to the more realistic streets of a movie, the numbers don't work as well. The whole thing seems out of place (the "ballerina" wisecrack I made earlier is emphasized by the naturalism of the setting).

[dfloyd]

What about Oklahoma from Green Grow the Lilacs, South Pacific from Michener's book, Jeykyll and Hyde, Phantom of the Opera, and the Scarlet Pimpernel. I enjoyed all of these more than Les Miserables, probably because it was too damn long.

[Emil Miller]

What about Oklahoma from Green Grow the Lilacs, South Pacific from Michener's book, Jeykyll and Hyde, Phantom of the Opera, and the Scarlet Pimpernel. I enjoyed all of these more than Les Miserables, probably because it was too damn long.

You've missed The King and I from Anna and the King of Siam by Margaret Landon, Carousel from Lilliom by Ferenc Molnar and Guys and Dolls based on stories by Damon Runyon. There are probably others that I don't remember.

EDIT: I have just remembered another one, Kiss Me Kate based on The Taming of the Shrew. I haven't seen it but there are a couple of gangsters involved with a travelling Shakespearean company and they sing this number.

http://youtu.be/aSmZfnax1yw

[Drkshadow03]

Les Mis was an excellent musical.

Jane Eyre and Little Women not so much, although the latter has some good songs.

[mortalterror]

There is nothing wrong with any of these plots, but what matters most are the libretto, the music, and the execution. When A Tale of Two Cities fails to impress, it's not Charles Dickens' fault.

[kiki1982]

Don't talk to me about musical! There are only about a handful, I would estimate, which deserve to be called 'OK'.

At least in the time of opera, opera composers and writers had the courage to do something worthwhile to their story, write a new one that suited its purpose and not to have to either dumb it down or to distort it.

The Phantom of the Opera is such a killer. It is such sh*t. The music is bad, the story is bland and it is so repetitive I had to have three tries to watch it (admittedly on TV). The first time I fell asleep, the second time (adamant I was going to watch it) I turned it off out of sheer misery and the third time I sat through it grudgingly. Obviously Webber had no inspiration whatsoever beyond his theme.

[OrphanPip]

Webber has a talent for producing commercially successful shows though. Although, I really only like Jesus Christ Superstar out of his work. (Cats has some good numbers)

[Emil Miller]

Don't talk to me about musical! There are only about a handful, I would estimate, which deserve to be called 'OK'.

At least in the time of opera, opera composers and writers had the courage to do something worthwhile to their story, write a new one that suited its purpose and not to have to either dumb it down or to distort it.

The Phantom of the Opera is such a killer. It is such sh*t. The music is bad, the story is bland and it is so repetitive I had to have three tries to watch it (admittedly on TV). The first time I fell asleep, the second time (adamant I was going to watch it) I turned it off out of sheer misery and the third time I sat through it grudgingly. Obviously Webber had no inspiration whatsoever beyond his theme.

It's quite useful to understand what the term 'musical' actually means. Opera doesn't fit, whether it's comic opera, grand opera or operetta. The musical of the 20th century is an extension of operetta and therefore another stage removed from opera per se. The US is it's natural home, although variants were to be found in Europe post Word War 1. Many of the musicals that were produced in the US were premiered in New York theatres before being produced around the world and their eventual conversion to the cinema screen. They don't seek to change the world or explain it, they are merely for entertainment and not be taken seriously.
Musicals based on great novels or plays are pretentious but that doesn't mean they are worthless; it depends on the music.
West Side Story is superficially clever and, leaving aside the racial engineering, quite engaging musically. It is the last of the Hollywood film musicals and everything since has been trite in comparison.
Anyone who subjects themselves to The Phantom Of the Opera three times, or even once, must be a glutton for punishment.

[mal4mac]

Don't talk to me about musical! There are only about a handful, I would estimate, which deserve to be called 'OK'.

At least in the time of opera, opera composers and writers had the courage to do something worthwhile to their story, write a new one that suited its purpose and not to have to either dumb it down or to distort it.

The Phantom of the Opera is such a killer. It is such sh*t. The music is bad, the story is bland and it is so repetitive I had to have three tries to watch it (admittedly on TV). The first time I fell asleep, the second time (adamant I was going to watch it) I turned it off out of sheer misery and the third time I sat through it grudgingly. Obviously Webber had no inspiration whatsoever beyond his theme.

I watched 'cats' on the TV and thought exactly the same, big theme OK, rest 'cat s**t'.

But I disagree with you about Opera! Most Opera stories are rubbish as well! What's the Magic Flute about? In this case, it doesn't matter of course - the music is so brilliant.

Last months BBC Music magazine has a really amusing article where top music critics from all the papers choose the ten most boring pieces - almost all of them are Operas or involve singing - Mahler 8 was (rightly!) prominent.

Michael White of the Daily Telegraph said "I'd rather sit through dental surgery than through another Tristan and Isolde" And he's written a book on Wagner! Fiona Maddocks says "Purcell's Dido and Anneas renders me stiff with ennui."

Maybe novels and plays should remain novels and plays?

The daftest cobbled together plot that no serious novelist would ever make claim to actually made the best opera - The Magic Flute - in Opera/Musicals it's music that counts and only Mozart, and maybe a few others (Bernstein?), had enough genius to make 90% of the music interesting - with everyone else it seems to be 10 minutes of nice music and two hours of Fat Germans shouting at each other (or Ugly Brits in the case of Lloyd Webber...)

[kelby_lake]

West Side Story wasn't the last of the Hollywood film musicals. Although there were still musicals in the late sixties, My Fair Lady was probably the last old-school Hollywood film musical.

I disagree with the insinuation that musicals are just fluff. Yes, at the heart of them is a romantic fantastical quality- that sort of Disney feeling- but some of them do have substance. And how many classic fiction writers really attempted to "change the world"?
People who want to change the world go out and actually change it. Fiction writers comment on what they see to be society's flaws. Yes, musicals are a form of entertainment but so is opera and music in all its forms.

What I like about musicals is their fantastical quality, and their core optimism: even when things are at their lowest point, there is still hope for the characters, and at their highest points, it's just pure ectasy. Life may be unhappy on the whole but there are times when you can feel truly happy.

On the point of adapting classic novels into musicals, there are some that might lend themselves to a musical treatment. Anna Karenina has the potential- Anna and Kitty would make good musical characters. Karenin, with his issues about showing emotions, could release them through song. However I don't know if we have musical songwriters who are good enough to do justice to it.

I saw that one poster had said that there's a Jane Eyre musical? What were the song titles? Maybe "I Feel Plain" or "Child Brides"?!

[Mr_Donnelly]

The only one I've seen is Les Mis. I was too young to appreciate it at the time though I've since played the soundtrack many times over the years and like it very much. I've never got round to reading the book. I've not seen The Woman in White but I've played the soundtrack, again many times, and find it gripping. Though different from the book, which I've read twice, it is in my opinion a masterpiece in its own right. I'm not too familiar with Heathcliff, though I've read Wuthering Heights more times than I can remember. I think it's a real achievement when a good novel is turned into an equally good musical, more so than when a bad novel such as Phantom of the Opera is made into an enjoyable musical.

[Emil Miller]

West Side Story wasn't the last of the Hollywood film musicals. Although there were still musicals in the late sixties, My Fair Lady was probably the last old-school Hollywood film musical.

I disagree with the insinuation that musicals are just fluff. Yes, at the heart of them is a romantic fantastical quality- that sort of Disney feeling- but some of them do have substance. And how many classic fiction writers really attempted to "change the world"?
People who want to change the world go out and actually change it. Fiction writers comment on what they see to be society's flaws. Yes, musicals are a form of entertainment but so is opera and music in all its forms.

What I like about musicals is their fantastical quality, and their core optimism: even when things are at their lowest point, there is still hope for the characters, and at their highest points, it's just pure ectasy. Life may be unhappy on the whole but there are times when you can feel truly happy.

On the point of adapting classic novels into musicals, there are some that might lend themselves to a musical treatment. Anna Karenina has the potential- Anna and Kitty would make good musical characters. Karenin, with his issues about showing emotions, could release them through song. However I don't know if we have musical songwriters who are good enough to do justice to it.

I saw that one poster had said that there's a Jane Eyre musical? What were the song titles? Maybe "I Feel Plain" or "Child Brides"?!

You are correct, My Fair Lady was the last of the quality Hollywood musicals, it followed West Side Story 3 years later.
Great novels are a motivation for certain people to change their own world and by extension that of others. I don't say that musicals are fluff, they were excellent entertainment until the trash came in but there is obviously a difference between the musical content of an opera and that of a Broadway musical. They are not just 'music' and, although they are meant to entertain, operas often deal with subjects that are meant to make an audience think as well as be entertained.

In saying that, musicals can be serious within their own limitations as is shown below:

http://youtu.be/d6V9EbnNx6U


http://youtu.be/ycTwZh4nBt0

[OrphanPip]

Fosse's musicals are all pretty good in my opinion: Sweet Charity, Cabaret, All That Jazz, Chicago (not the film though).

I also don't understand the notion that musicals are only meant to entertain. Brecht's Three Penny Opera was intended as a Marxist critique. None of Fosse's musicals are particularly light hearted in way at all. Tommy and Hairspray are two others off the top of my head that are attempting something more than just light fluff.

[Drkshadow03]

Don't talk to me about musical! There are only about a handful, I would estimate, which deserve to be called 'OK'.

At least in the time of opera, opera composers and writers had the courage to do something worthwhile to their story, write a new one that suited its purpose and not to have to either dumb it down or to distort it.

The Phantom of the Opera is such a killer. It is such sh*t. The music is bad, the story is bland and it is so repetitive I had to have three tries to watch it (admittedly on TV). The first time I fell asleep, the second time (adamant I was going to watch it) I turned it off out of sheer misery and the third time I sat through it grudgingly. Obviously Webber had no inspiration whatsoever beyond his theme.

Really? I think the music of The Phantom of the Opera is wonderful. But it depends a lot on cast (as do most musicals); I've seen it something like 4 times on Broadway. Having seen quite a few shows multiple times on broadway, I can't stress enough how much casting can completely change an experience and make a good musical into a bad/mediocre one quickly.

[MarkBastable]

I hate musicals...


Balletic farmhands who grin while they're leaping,
Star-cross'd young lovers harmoniously weeping,
Jolly street urchins accompanied by strings -
These make my list of least favourite things.

Crooning and spooning at country-house parties,
Nuns using yodelling to outwit the Nazis,
Sung conversations with Siamese kings -
These make my list of least favourite things.

[kasie]

Mark - you've missed your vocation! And you've obviously absorbed the genre, no matter how much you protest your loathing....:)

[kiki1982]

I hate musicals...


Balletic farmhands who grin while they're leaping,
Star-cross'd young lovers harmoniously weeping,
Jolly street urchins accompanied by strings -
These make my list of least favourite things.

Crooning and spooning at country-house parties,
Nuns using yodelling to outwit the Nazis,
Sung conversations with Siamese kings -
These make my list of least favourite things.

:lol:

[mal4mac]

Really? I think the music of The Phantom of the Opera is wonderful. But it depends a lot on cast...

The film version didn't have a good reception, only 33% on Rotten Tomatoes, with an average score of 5/10. "The music of the night has hit something of a sour note: Critics are calling the screen adaptation of Andrew Lloyd Webber’s popular musical histrionic, boring, and lacking in both romance and danger."

I quiet like Abba, but the cast, plot and characters of the film version of Mama Mia was appalling. Moulin Rouge was also a major turkey. Modern film musicals just don't seem to work, unless they go all out for irony, like "The Producers":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K08akOt2kuo

"You shut up, I am zee author, you are zee audience, I outrank you..."

[OrphanPip]

I quiet like Abba, but the cast, plot and characters of the film version of Mama Mia was appalling. Moulin Rouge was also a major turkey.

Jukebox musicals are pretty horrible in general.

Chicago won an Oscar a little over a decade ago, and Hairspray was a decent musical adaptation of the John Waters film from the 80s.

[Calidore]

I hate musicals...


Balletic farmhands who grin while they're leaping,
Star-cross'd young lovers harmoniously weeping,
Jolly street urchins accompanied by strings -
These make my list of least favourite things.

Crooning and spooning at country-house parties,
Nuns using yodelling to outwit the Nazis,
Sung conversations with Siamese kings -
These make my list of least favourite things.

Awesome. Did you write that, and is there more?

[MarkBastable]

Awesome. Did you write that, and is there more?

I did, and there isn't. I'll think about it. But thank you.

[Calidore]

I like musicals, but here's a verse anyway:

Choreographers who think there's value in excess
Trapezes and swimming pools bigger than Texas
The diva who hollers instead of just sings
These make my list of least favorite things.

[MarkBastable]

I like musicals, but here's a verse anyway:

Choreographers who think there's value in excess
Trapezes and swimming pools bigger than Texas
The diva who hollers instead of just sings
These make my list of least favorite things.


Nice, but I think your leading lady is going to have difficulty getting all those syllables into the first line of the melody.

[Calidore]

The stress isn't always on the first syllable, but the rhythm's there:

Chore-OG-raphers who think...
Tra-PE-zes and swimming pools...
The DI-va who hollers...

That help? I hope so, because I refuse to attach a recording of myself singing it, lest I be banned for offensive content.

[Drkshadow03]

The film version didn't have a good reception, only 33% on Rotten Tomatoes, with an average score of 5/10. "The music of the night has hit something of a sour note: Critics are calling the screen adaptation of Andrew Lloyd Webber’s popular musical histrionic, boring, and lacking in both romance and danger."


Yeah, I wasn't talking about the film version, though. I actually saw it on Broadway four times. The very first time was a powerful experience, especially when you see the chandelier come crashing down. The music is so gorgeous and powerful, especially if you're listening to the original cast recording.

Personally, my favorite musical is Miss Saigon. Probably followed by Les Miserables and then Ragtime.

[JuniperWoolf]

My favorite was Nine. It was much better than Chicago (and I didn't mind Chicago either).

[kiki1982]

Yeah, I wasn't talking about the film version, though. I actually saw it on Broadway four times. The very first time was a powerful experience, especially when you see the chandelier come crashing down. The music is so gorgeous and powerful, especially if you're listening to the original cast recording.

Personally, my favorite musical is Miss Saigon. Probably followed by Les Miserables and then Ragtime.

You see, maybe the singing wasn't very good (the two opera directors... :eek: how Ciaran Hinds could have lent himself to that I'll never know...), but I just didn't like the music.

It was bland, there was nothing to listen to.

There was a good theme of a few well-placed notes and the rest, which should be embroidering on that, was just... I might just as well call it 'nothing', because that's how it felt. Just like his musical Cats.
It just bores me to tears.

Of course stories in opera are not always exciting (how can you make them exciting if your audience is not likely to understand the words? not even when you understand the language singers are singing in...), but there is something interesting to listen to.

To me, the Phantom of the Opera was a piece of... how shall I put it... It was as if Webber had thought of a few (admittedly) good notes together and then lost all inspiration, but had a contract to fulfil.

Just like his song that went to Europvision.

It was a soufflé that fell flat on its face when it wasn't even in the oven yet.

I must really dislike musical then :blush:

[kelby_lake]

The music for Phantom is brilliant when you're in a proper theatre.

[kelby_lake]

Talking of classics being adapted into musicals, did anyone listen to My Fair Lady on BBC Radio 3 yesterday? It was Prom 2 :D

[Emil Miller]

Talking of classics being adapted into musicals, did anyone listen to My Fair Lady on BBC Radio 3 yesterday? It was Prom 2 :D

I heard some of it but although the music was good, the singers couldn't match those in the filmed version. I switched off when the girl's father started as I don't like cockney accents and even more so faux cockney. I think the voices might have been affected by the size of the venue and, obviously, the filmed version had a lot of money spent on it to create the right atmosphere.

[kelby_lake]

I heard some of it but although the music was good, the singers couldn't match those in the filmed version. I switched off when the girl's father started as I don't like cockney accents and even more so faux cockney. I think the voices might have been affected by the size of the venue and, obviously, the filmed version had a lot of money spent on it to create the right atmosphere.

The volume is very low. The girl playing Eliza is actually quite a nice singer. Anthony Andrews might not be a good singer but he's Sebastian from Brideshead Revisited so I forgive him :) More than a touch of that in his performance.