Suicide

[cl154576]

Do major religions still condemn suicide to the same degree? What are your views on the subject?

[Buh4Bee]

Christianity:
I know that Christians do not believe it is a person's right to take their own life. Life is seen as a gift from God and only God's right to decide when someone's time has come to an end. However, it is believed that if the victim accepted Christ as their savior, through a state of grace their soul is saved and they are granted eternal life. The concept of salvation means that Christ absolves the soul by forgiveness all sins. With this golden ticket, it's off to the cloudy skies and through the pearly gates. See you sucka!

But on a more serious note, I believe a person does have the right to take their life, if they are experiencing a deep level of pain that can not be resolved. I personally would never take my own life, but I can respect someone who felt the need to make this decision. A childhood friend's father recently committed suicide after battling MS for almost 16 years. He was done and now he is at peace. His whole family feels this way.

[G L Wilson]

From a philosophical point of view, I despise suicide.
From an ethical point of view, it is better to die than suffer indignity.
I, therefore, think that it is the right of every person to judge when the end has come for them.

[Dark Muse]

I feel that a person should be able to do with their own personal body whatever they so desire. And so if a person makes the choice that they want to take their own life, that should be their right and their own personal business.

[Delta40]

what about the deep, deep pain that suicide causes others? Is it ok for Mum to stick her head in a gas oven while the kiddies sleep? Sylvia Plath's son comitted suicide later in his life. Do you think his mother's death was not a factor?

[Dark Muse]

what about the deep, deep pain that suicide causes others? Is it ok for Mum to stick her head in a gas oven while the kiddies sleep? Sylvia Plath's son comitted suicide later in his life. Do you think his mother's death was not a factor?

That is something that is something that the individual to weigh for themselves.

I do not think that someone use should decide another person's actions purely based upon the reactions others.

It may be preferable to consider how your actions will emotionally affect other people around you, but I don't think someone else has the right to prevent you from doing something you have decided is the best choice for you just because someone else might be upset by it.

Suicide may be a cowardly and selfish act (depending on the circumstances and reasons) but than one has the right to be selfish if that is their decision.

I am not saying I think suicide is the correct choice to make in all situation. But I believe in the right of each person to make that choice for themselves.

The suicide of her son may have been related to her own suicide but than not everyone whom had a parent commit suicide did so themselves. So her son still bares the responsibility for his own choice and actions. He choose to deal with his mother's death by taking his own life, but others in the same situation have made different choices for themselves.

[tailor STATELY]

Such a conflicting subject.

Yes, everyone has his or her own agency, to use the Christian term, to do what they want; but that individual can not control the consequences of the use of their agency. Families and extended families and friends do suffer, immensely, long after a loved one's suicide.

Many times the judgment of the individual was impaired when the suicidal agency/impulse/decision was made, and therefore that individual may not be responsible for their actions. This impairment could be due to chemical imbalances, stress, depression, health ( I believe these were major factors in my sister's suicide 5-years ago ), and other factors.

My sister, outgoing and a delight to be with, left her husband, three children, three grandchildren, Mother, three brothers, one sister, many many close friends and extended family aching for answers. Less than a year later a fourth grandchild was added to her family that my sister never had knowledge of; this grandchild, and others to follow, will undoubtedly be affected by my sister's choice as well.

As in the above - accountability in a faith-based structure may be skewed when thought in terms of whether a person was in their right mind, regardless of consequences, concerning suicide. IMHO

[Delta40]

I do not think that someone use should decide another person's actions purely based upon the reactions others.

It may be preferable to consider how your actions will emotionally affect other people around you, but I don't think someone else has the right to prevent you from doing something you have decided is the best choice for you just because someone else might be upset by it.

Why restrict this point of view only to suicide? Why not apply it across the board for any action that any individual feels they have the right to do and not let others prevent them? This is the ingredient for a lawless society. Weighing up a decision doesn't mean it won't impinge on the rights and freedoms of others. Are we allowed to do that too?

[Dark Muse]

Why restrict this point of view only to suicide? Why not apply it across the board for any action that any individual feels they have the right to do and not let others prevent them? This is the ingredient for a lawless society. Weighing up a decision doesn't mean it won't impinge on the rights and freedoms of others. Are we allowed to do that too?

Because I do not think a person should be allowed to cause physical harm to another person. I just do not think that outside agencies should monitor what may or may not cause another person emotional harm, because that is more subjective.

There is a difference between a person committing suicide and a person stabbing another person, or robbing from them. Because than they are directly depriving that other person of their right to live or their right to their own property.

But while suicide may have an emotional affect upon other people, it does not directly take away any one else's right to their own life. Comiting suicide does not infringe on another person's rights over thier own person while causing physical harm does.

How are actions may emotionally affect others should be a personal private matter between that individual and the others involved.

But there should be outside forces that monitor how our actions physically affect others.

I have a right not to be stabbed by another person, but I do not have the right not to be grieved by someone else choosing to take their own life .

And I do apply it to other things than suicide. I do not want to get off topic here but to give one example. I think that prostitution should be legal because if a grown adult wants to trade their own body for money they should have the right to do so.

[Delta40]

I disagree and I believe that it is not our purpose to cause others pain. Now if that pain is due to abuse by another, it is wrong. If the person who was abused takes their life and causes pain to another, that is also wrong. Their pain may have stopped only because they passed it on to others.

[Dark Muse]

I disagree and I believe that it is not our purpose to cause others pain. Now if that pain is due to abuse by another, it is wrong. If the person who was abused takes their life and causes pain to another, that is also wrong. Their pain may have stopped only because they passed it on to others.

And what happens when you apply that thinking to other situations?

What if a person is in a relationship which they no longer desire, but their leaving will cause the other person pain. Should they than stay simply to spare the other pain?

Should we all be self-sacrificing simply for the sake of others without considering what we may want for ourselves?

Is it better to simply continue to suffer our own pain because we don't want to do anything that may cause someone else pain?

[G L Wilson]

The pain of another is never felt and an excuse for tyranny.

[Delta40]

You could be right but both our arguments are black and white and we don't live in a pain free existence. We should thank Mark Chapman for showing the world that there is no such place as Imagine.

[cl154576]

what about the deep, deep pain that suicide causes others? Is it ok for Mum to stick her head in a gas oven while the kiddies sleep? Sylvia Plath's son comitted suicide later in his life. Do you think his mother's death was not a factor?

What makes our own suffering less important than another's? Would the son not have felt grief if his mother continued living in noticeable pain?

But back to the religious/philosophical aspect, what is philosophically despicable about suicide? And jersea, if life is a "gift" from God and only He has the right to end it, do we have to appreciate this "gift" all the time, whatever else is wrapped inside it? If we do not have the right to end our lives, do we have the right to make other major decisions?

[Buh4Bee]

Nice conversation ladies, I did want to say, in the case of my friend's father who took his life his family was very supportive. They knew he would do it when it was the right time, because he was suffering so much and was going to die anyway. He wanted to die with dignity. In such a case as this, I believe he made the best choice and did not cause any others suffering.

[Buh4Bee]

We have free will, we can do whatever we want. But do you dare to make that choice, whatever it is?

[G L Wilson]

To be or not to be - that is the question.

[Darcy88]

"Life is not so desirable a thing as to be protracted at any cost. Whoever you are, you are sure to die, even though your life has been full of abomination and crime. The chief of all remedies for a troubled mind is the feeling that among the blessings which Nature gives to man there is none greater than an opportune death; and the best of it is that every one of us can avail himself of it."

-Pliny

"The thought of suicide is a great consolation; by means of it one gets through many a bad night."

-Nietzsche

Link to Hume's essay on suicide:

http://www.anselm.edu/homepage/dbanach/suicide.htm

To think that one should have to suffer all that one must suffer in order to be driven to such an extremity and then have to face condemnation from God .... no God would be so merciless.

[G L Wilson]

To think that one should have to suffer all that one must suffer in order to be driven to such an extremity and then have to face condemnation from God .... no God would be so merciless.

Don't bet on it.

[Darcy88]

Don't bet on it.

In that case I would tell God Himself to go to hell.

[G L Wilson]

In that case I would tell God Himself to go to hell.

He knows not what he does. That which is decided on earth shall be law in heaven.

[G L Wilson]

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

[Panglossian]

People say suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem, but if there’s life after death then it’s a temporary solution to a permanent problem, in that the suicide will either reincarnate back to this vale of tears or be judged negatively by the big man upstairs and sent to roast.

[andreea_]

Should we all be self-sacrificing simply for the sake of others without considering what we may want for ourselves?

Being self-sacrificing simply for the sake of others without considering what you may want for yourself is pretty much the definition of love. That is not to say that anybody should be forced to love anybody, simply that you can't sincerely love another person and not sacrifice yourself for them.

[G L Wilson]

Being self-sacrificing simply for the sake of others without considering what you may want for yourself is pretty much the definition of love. That is not to say that anybody should be forced to love anybody, simply that you can't sincerely love another person and not sacrifice yourself for them.

Should love tie us to the Earth when life has become a pit of pain?

[Calidore]

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

Only sometimes true. I know three kids whose mother didn't kill them, but certainly didn't leave them stronger.

[Dark Muse]

Being self-sacrificing simply for the sake of others without considering what you may want for yourself is pretty much the definition of love. That is not to say that anybody should be forced to love anybody, simply that you can't sincerely love another person and not sacrifice yourself for them.

But even in a relationship to be truly happy you must to some extent consider your own needs, your own self and your own happiness.

You cannot truly love another person if in doing so you completely sacrifice everything which you yourself require for happiness merely for their sake.

To be absolutely self-sacrificing will not truly lead to love, because it will give birth to resentment, bitterness and regret.

[G L Wilson]

But even in a relationship to be truly happy you must to some extent consider your own needs, your own self and your own happiness.

You cannot truly love another person if in doing so you completely sacrifice everything which you yourself require for happiness merely for their sake.

To be absolutely self-sacrificing will not truly lead to love, because it will give birth to resentment, bitterness and regret.

Love conquers all things.

[cl154576]

Love conquers all things.

Is that empty idealism?
God is supposed to be love; does His love conquer His hate?

[Delta40]

Suicide is a subjective decision. A perspective that, like a dress, fits the person best but like most things, perspective will change just as the dress will go out of fashion.

When we consider teenagers and young adults - the highest category of suicide (especially males), it is a great cause of concern and speaks volumes about the societies we live in so it rankles me to bring suicide down to the individual level and something that should be dealt with privately by those wallowing in the painful aftermath a suicide brings.

The reality is we're talking mostly about people who haven't acquired the skills to transform from victim to survivor primarily because of their youth, lack of identity, life skills, wisdom, understanding, acceptance. These kids are an incomplete canvas who have a lifetime to create their own unique landscape but they don't. I don't believe it is a right.

Yes, people's pain thresholds vary but this is still not a justification, since the threshold one has is subject to change across a lifetime. Nothing remains static in this life. Even pain. As a survivor of child sexual abuse, I know this now. I didn't when I was a victim engulfed in my own pain. My canvas is coming along beautifully, with all its ups and downs because it only increases the substance of my personal masterpiece.