David Starkey's Race Remarks

[LitNetIsGreat]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/aug/15/david-starkey-newsinght-race-remarks

"A racist idiot"

"Disgusting and outrageous".

What do you think about this? Are these racist/misguided comments for which he should be publicly condemned for or is this just another example of the media frenzy/PC hype brigade?

I didn't see the full programme, only what is available in the clip, but from this it didn't seem that harmful to me. The latter comments about living in a foreign country seem a little misguided, however the points about black gang culture becoming fashionable and certain sections of whites "becoming black" feeding into this gang culture seems all to obvious to me and not racist. Have they never seen Ali G?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNi-BB-j0u0

[tonywalt]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/aug/15/david-starkey-newsinght-race-remarks

"A racist idiot"

"Disgusting and outrageous".

What do you think about this? Are these racist/misguided comments for which he should be publicly condemned for or is this just another example of the media frenzy/PC hype brigade?

I didn't see the full programme, only what is available in the clip, but from this it didn't seem that harmful to me. The latter comments about living in a foreign country seem a little misguided, however the points about black gang culture becoming fashionable and certain sections of whites "becoming black" feeding into this gang culture seems all to obvious to me and not racist. Have they never seen Ali G?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNi-BB-j0u0


I agree with you Neely. I do not even bother to read or watch media constantly promoting this PC rubbish. I observe and fear the general public have already been brainwashed into this way of thinking.

[Alexander III]

Im not a big fan of Starkey, but those are not racist comments - to me they seem more like plain facts, sure he may have articulated it better, but I think few people can disagree with the core of what he is saying.

They ought to just stop PC and re introduce censorship of the press and everything, that way they can do their PC a lot more effectively and less hypocritically...

[Emil Miller]

I don't watch television these days but I have seen Starkey a few times in the past and as he seems to be the scourge of the self-righteous I am all in favour of his statements. For those who don't like what he has to say, I would suggest that it is better to let people speak their mind rather than use Orwellian tactics to silence them, because when the worm turns, as it inevitably will, there will be blood on the streets and it might well be yours.

[LitNetIsGreat]

Oh, I have found what looks like a fuller version of it:
http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/public-apology-from-david-starkey-and-the-bbc.html

[Emil Miller]

Oh, I have found what looks like a fuller version of it:
http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/public-apology-from-david-starkey-and-the-bbc.html

Thanks for posting this version, Starkey seems to be trimming his sails somewhat and confusing his argument accordingly. However, he is father Christmas compared to some who are waiting in the wings for what is looking increasingly like the final slide into anarchy that will give them their chance. Very interesting times.

[LitNetIsGreat]

Thanks for posting this version, Starkey seems to be trimming his sails somewhat and confusing his argument accordingly. However, he is father Christmas compared to some who are waiting in the wings for what is looking increasingly like the final slide into anarchy that will give them their chance. Very interesting times.

Yes, it would have also helped if the others hadn't kept butting in on what he was trying to say and let him finish. This is another gripe of mine on this sort of programme generally. People are asked a question and then given half a second to form an answer. Also Paxman is better.

Yes interesting times indeed.

Oh, and Piers Morgan calling someone an idiot - pot and kettle stuff.

[kasie]

I did see the programme and, much as it pains me to admit it because I have never been a great fan of Prof. Starkey, I felt much of what he said was apposite and relevant, especially the bit about the (uncritical) absorbtion of Jamaican (and he specified Jamaican, not a blanket 'black' reference) gang culture through the influence of Rap music. However the other members of the 'discussion' group could not wait for him to finish his point and were fairly foaming at the mouth to accuse him of 'racism'. They didn't listen to what he said nor did they make any attempt to refute his argument or present one of their own and by so doing, lost a great deal of credibility, imo. I felt for the presenter who could only sit by and watch the whole thing slide out of control, wrapping the whole thing up as hastily as possible - where's Jeremy Paxman when you need him? Paxman and Starkey - now, there's a combination to set the screen afire....

Why do I think this thread will not live for long?

[Emil Miller]

Oh, and Piers Morgan calling someone an idiot - pot and kettle stuff.


Oh, I missed that about Piers Morgan, but I usually give him a miss anyway.

[LitNetIsGreat]

I did see the programme and, much as it pains me to admit it because I have never been a great fan of Prof. Starkey, I felt much of what he said was apposite and relevant, especially the bit about the (uncritical) absorbtion of Jamaican (and he specified Jamaican, not a blanket 'black' reference) gang culture through the influence of Rap music. However the other members of the 'discussion' group could not wait for him to finish his point and were fairly foaming at the mouth to accuse him of 'racism'. They didn't listen to what he said nor did they make any attempt to refute his argument or present one of their own and by so doing, lost a great deal of credibility, imo. I felt for the presenter who could only sit by and watch the whole thing slide out of control, wrapping the whole thing up as hastily as possible - where's Jeremy Paxman when you need him? Paxman and Starkey - now, there's a combination to set the screen afire....

Why do I think this thread will not live for long?

Yes it would have been better chaired by Paxman and we might have had a clear view of his points, but as it is people are all too quick to condemn anyone who tries to bring any points forward that they see as touching upon race.

Miliband was quick to say "there should be condemnation from every politician, from every political party, of those sorts of comments" which in my view is so overly dramatic it is verging on unbelievable. Then we have the usual "outraged" easily offended type who contact the BBC in uproar because someone has said the word "black". And of course we have the petition to force whoever to make an apology which goes into thousands, often whether they have seen it or not - all the usual stuff. Bonkers Britain.

[Emil Miller]

And of course we have the petition to force whoever to make an apology which goes into thousands, often whether they have seen it or not - all the usual stuff. Bonkers Britain.

I saw the petition and although I seldom use the vernacular, in this case I felt the need to make an exception. But when I tried to forward it with the word ********inscribed in capitals, it was rejected. I would bet they got more of that type than what they were expecting.

[LitNetIsGreat]

I'm wondering what the starred word you put was but I could hazard a fair guess.

Yes of the 700 or so initial complaints, not the petition the complaints mind, 21 complained that it was chaired poorly and that he was unfairly treated.

I wonder if the story has broke further, whether maybe the Arch-Bishop of Canterbury has got involved or if famous "talented celebs" have come out to voice their outrage?

[Emil Miller]

I wonder if the story has broke further, whether maybe the Arch-Bishop of Canterbury has got involved or if famous "talented celebs" have come out to voice their outrage?

I'm surprised that the BBC has refused to apologise for allowing Starkey's remarks without refuting them but I would bet that there are some in the programming department of Radio 4 who are gnashing their teeth. Never mind, they can always put on yet another programme about Sub-Saharan Africa to assuage their righteous indignation.