If you had to choose between romance and friendship ...

[SleepyWitch]

If you had to choose between having either ONLY romance or ONLY friendship in your life, which would you choose?
By romance I don't mean a committed long-term relationship where you know that you won't break up, but a boyfriend/ girlfriend thingy where the partners haven't really talked about whether it will be 'forever'.
Please take the poll and give your reasons.
I'll tell you my opinion later after some people have answered.

[farnoosh]

Looks like I'm first.
I choosed friendship because...well,to put it the easy way in my opinion Romantic relations never last, no matter how deep you think the feeling goes,at some point you move on without realizing it, like one day you find yourself in a position that the feeling you had for that person who was once so special to you has vanished and although you do still have a connection with that person but it's not romantic anymore,and it's just the friendship that remains.
So, i guess that every relation no matter how it starts ends up as a friendship and nothing more.

[Varenne Rodin]

There can be romance connected to lifelong friendship. I know some very amorous old people who have been married 40+ years and still chase each other around, giggling and making out like kids. I just wanted to say that romance doesn't die unless it's allowed to.

[prendrelemick]

As one of those amorous old people, I'd give romance a chance every time. You've got to get it while you can.

[Serena03]

Romance can be friendship if its well established, happy marriages often turn out this way. Either way though, neither may last very long; true friendship, like true love, may be as rare as a piece of gold in a silver mine. Embrace whichever may come if given the chance.

Then again, you don't necessarily have to have romance to have sex...:wink5:

[JuniperWoolf]

You can't have romance WITHOUT friendship, any person that you're with in a romantic sphere is going to be someone that you admire and enjoy hanging out with (which is how I would define friendship). I guess there are differend modes, certain personnas that you could adopt in which could be defined as either romantic or friendly. I like being friendly more than being romantic, it seems less silly and forced.

[Lokasenna]

Friendship all the way - I rather enjoy being a batchelor, and the times I have with my friends are precious to me.

[aliengirl]

If we assume that romance and friendship are mutually exclusive as OP suggests then I'll go for friendship. Friends are far more dependable than romantic lovers.

[Vonny]

I've been thinking about it, and I'm unable to make this choice. I'm obsessed with my cat, my friend and my imaginary lover - (not necessarily in that order.)

[OrphanPip]

Would choosing friendship mean a life of celibacy, cause I'm not willing to make that sacrifice.

[faithosaurus]

I'll go with friendship. Usually this is a stronger bond, and if you have that bond in a romantic relationship you also have friendship intertwined.

[cl154576]

If I could, I would choose never to have passions of any sort. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be my disposition.

[SleepyWitch]

Would choosing friendship mean a life of celibacy, cause I'm not willing to make that sacrifice.
I suppose you could have casual sex or one-night-stands.


If I could, I would choose never to have passions of any sort. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be my disposition.
Are you saying that friendship is a passion? Or were you referring to romance?

[Revolte]

This may not be the best time for me to be giving an opinion, but, there isn't much you can't do with a friend that you can do with a boyfriend/girlfriend. Passionate friendships aren't really a bad thing. I'm not talking about certain people you just call over for a good night, but real loving passionate friendships.

[Lokasenna]

Would choosing friendship mean a life of celibacy, cause I'm not willing to make that sacrifice.

It is, of course, possible to have sex with friends. Not in a romance/relationship way, but just for the fun of it.

[Vonny]

It is, of course, possible to have sex with friends. Not in a romance/relationship way, but just for the fun of it.

I'm suddenly at a loss for words. :lol:

[OrphanPip]

It is, of course, possible to have sex with friends. Not in a romance/relationship way, but just for the fun of it.

Certainly, but it's not quite the same, it's a little empty. Besides, I can't have sex with people without becoming romantically attached, it doesn't work for me.

Where have all the romantics gone?

[Pensive]

Reminds me of this poem by Emily Bronte:

Love is like the wild rose-briar,
Friendship like the holly-tree
The holly is dark when the rose-briar blooms
But which will bloom most constantly?

The wild-rose briar is sweet in the spring,
Its summer blossoms scent the air;
Yet wait till winter comes again
And who will call the wild-briar fair?

Then scorn the silly rose-wreath now
And deck thee with the holly's sheen,
That when December blights thy brow
He may still leave thy garland green.

[qimissung]

What a gorgeous poem! Leave it to the Brontes to get to the heart of the matter.

I think I choose friendship. Romance, while wonderful, has usually had, for me, an ephemeral quality that is, in the end, unsatisfactory.

[OrphanPip]

I'm not sure I trust the notion that friendships are any more permanent or reliable than romantic relationships.

[cl154576]

I'm not sure I trust the notion that friendships are any more permanent or reliable than romantic relationships.

I don't trust it either.

I meant earlier that I would choose never to have friends, romance, or loneliness. But that's rather impossible for me. The first two preclude the last.

[Veho]

I chose romance.

[qimissung]

I don't know about permanent, but I still think friendship brings with it stronger, more enduring qualities, and as someone pointed out (Juniper?), friendship can be part of one's romance, too.

[Stanislaw]

I would have to go with the romance option... there is nothing quite like the feeling of sharing a sunset walk, or an early morning canoe ride, or a simple drive in the scenic country.

[Idril]

If I had been asked this question 6 or 7 months ago, I may have had a different answer but my perspective has changed. Friendship is great and it can get you through a great deal of trial and tribulations but there is nothing like that thrill of romance or the feeling of completeness you get when you really connect with someone on a romantic level.

[BienvenuJDC]

Why does it have to be either/or?

I am looking for a young lady who can be both. Maybe I have found her, but I must be patient.

[SleepyWitch]

Why does it have to be either/or?

I am looking for a young lady who can be both. Maybe I have found her, but I must be patient.

It's just a hypothetical question.
I was reading this book about friendship and one guy they interviewed said friends (of both sexes) are forever, but girlfriends break up with you and you can always find a new girlfriend.
I used to think that too, but now I realize that only a small number of friends is really reliable. As for making new friends beyond an established circle, it's just like romance, they come and go.

[Stanislaw]

I just had to think of the old spice girls song (heh, pretty sad I can actually quote some of the verses :blush: )


If you want to be my lover, you've gotta get with my friends. Make it last forever. Friendship never ends.

*cough* *cough* :blush:

[qimissung]

You're a wise lady, SleepyWitch.

[Vonny]

Here's my favorite love song, which I think says it all, better than Emily Bronte.

It's told from a woman's perspective but could as easily be reversed.

If I can get the link right...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-BAVztjJbw&NR=1

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Friends with benefits. Conundrum solved!

[Vonny]

Friends with benefits. Conundrum solved!

Romance and imaginary lover!

[MarkBastable]

I'm not sure I trust the notion that friendships are any more permanent or reliable than romantic relationships.

Neither do I. Then again, I tend not to sustain friendships much beyond the circumstances that gave rise to them, which means, in effect, that I shuck most of my friends every eight or nine years.

[Jack of Hearts]

Why are we obsessed with the permanent?

Give this reader romance, burning at both ends like a short fused M-80. Let it end badly. Let somebody lose some eyebrows.







J

[Vonny]

Why are we obsessed with the permanent?

Give this reader romance, burning at both ends like a short fused M-80. Let it end badly. Let somebody lose some eyebrows.







J


No way. ...no ending ...no one losing.

I should say, no way for me.

[breathtest]

In my experience the feelings that happen to you during a romance can be far stronger than any friendship. It's why some people end up ignoring their friends when they get a girlfriend/boyfriend. They'd much rather be with the romantic partner. So I would have to go with romance. If it makes you feel so terrible when it ends, that is only because it was so strong in the first place.

[Maryd.]

Friends may disappear for a while, but they always return. Lovers who say they will love you forever and then disappear, without even an ounce of explanation. Never return. Friendship all the way. Love is just a lie or myth!!

[Vonny]

"If it makes you feel so terrible when it ends, that is only because it was so strong in the first place."

It's bad though when it's the children that end up feeling so terrible and losing eyebrows.

One reason I think gays are to be admired is that generally, whatever they do, romantic or fun, they aren't leaving all of that devastation in their wake, although the Bible says it's wrong the same as straight people lustfully hopping from one to another.

[Calidore]

I tend to think of friends as being attached by a big rubber band and romantic partners by a steel bar. Rubber bands sacrifice strength for flexibility, and if they do break, they can easily be tied up and stay just as good. The bar is stronger, but if it breaks, much harder to repair--so most people will just get a new bar.

[cl154576]

If it makes you feel so terrible when it ends, that is only because it was so strong in the first place.

Or because you realized you were an idiot, a fool, you let yourself be lied to and the other person was laughing at you all along ...

[BienvenuJDC]

"If it makes you feel so terrible when it ends, that is only because it was so strong in the first place."

It's bad though when it's the children that end up feeling so terrible and losing eyebrows.

One reason I think gays are to be admired is that generally, whatever they do, romantic or fun, they aren't leaving all of that devastation in their wake, although the Bible says it's wrong the same as straight people lustfully hopping from one to another.

But I don't think that your perception is accurate. Whether gay or straight, the devastation is left when love is overruled by selfishness. There are gay couples that are allowed to adopt children, and those relationships fall apart in the same manner. So how do gay couples have less destruction then straight couples?

[Vonny]

But I don't think that your perception is accurate. Whether gay or straight, the devastation is left when love is overruled by selfishness. There are gay couples that are allowed to adopt children, and those relationships fall apart in the same manner. So how do gay couples have less destruction then straight couples?

Well, the men don't have babies. So unless they are celebrities, they adopt some child that has been thrown away - and rarely is it an infant. It's usually a child that is institutionalized prior to adoption.

The women don't have nearly as many children. If they do, they seem to put thought into the decision because it doesn't just happen spontaneously from a one-night stand with a man and then call it another Little Blessing from God that is going to be raised in horrid circumstances in a meth house, they don't seem to be the kind that Luke mentioned who are welfare moms popping out another one each year.


This is what I think - honestly, I don't know that many gay people, and personally, I know NONE that want children. They are too busy having fun!

(I think the thread is off track, so why don't we let this go now.)

[breathtest]

Or because you realized you were an idiot, a fool, you let yourself be lied to and the other person was laughing at you all along ...

So can't both people think they are in love at the same time, without it being a case of one person laughing at another while just trying to get their end in for a while?

I don't understand why so many people are so negative about love, saying it doesn't exist, and really is just a bunch of lies and deceits. I understand fully that love is not some fairy tale thing where everything is perfect. But it does exist in the form of strong emotions towards one person. Just because it ends doesn't mean it was always a lie. Just means that it ran out. In a lot of cases love doesn't last forever, but it doesn't mean that it was never there.


Friends may disappear for a while, but they always return. Lovers who say they will love you forever and then disappear, without even an ounce of explanation. Never return. Friendship all the way. Love is just a lie or myth!!

Friends don't always return. And sometimes lovers do. People divorce and remarry and live the rest of their lives happily together. And some lovers just plain stay together forever.

[Vonny]

So can't both people think they are in love at the same time, without it being a case of one person laughing at another while just trying to get their end in for a while?

I don't understand why so many people are so negative about love, saying it doesn't exist, and really is just a bunch of lies and deceits. I understand fully that love is not some fairy tale thing where everything is perfect. But it does exist in the form of strong emotions towards one person. Just because it ends doesn't mean it was always a lie. Just means that it ran out. In a lot of cases love doesn't last forever, but it doesn't mean that it was never there.



Friends don't always return. And sometimes lovers do. People divorce and remarry and live the rest of their lives happily together. And some lovers just plain stay together forever.


Here's the truth about me. :blush: I am completely in LOVE, in awe, with a certain man.

But there's something about the word "love" that leaves a metallic taste in my mouth. People have used it as a form of manipulation in my life. I think love is something that you show more than go around saying. I do say the word love to this person and mean it, but... it confuses me, sort of like Christianity.

What I mean is, the word confuses me, not the actual love.

For me, commitment is great, but no contracts and no entanglements - even like gay people with the same bank account.

But love is forever, like I have for all of my pets who have died. When someone is worth loving, because they are wonderful, it never diminishes.

This thread is making me think.

The person could leave or die, but you're left better for having known and loved them, even if it's bittersweet.

[Maryd.]

Friends don't always return. And sometimes lovers do. People divorce and remarry and live the rest of their lives happily together. And some lovers just plain stay together forever.

You've suddenly become a comedian breathtest or you're just pulling my leg. I've had a run in with friends, but the real friendships return to normal after forgiveness is restored. I've not known one love return; to either myself or loved ones and friends.

Care to name a few people who have returned to their original love state or remarriage and last. :)

[Vonny]

You've suddenly become a comedian breathtest or you're just pulling my leg. I've had a run in with friends, but the real friendships return to normal after forgiveness is restored. I've not known one love return; to either myself or loved ones and friends.

Care to name a few people who have returned to their original love state or remarriage and last. :)

Then it was never love. If you love, it doesn't change no matter what they do. It doesn't matter if they are with you or with someone else.

And there are some people who you can't help but love, because that's the kind of person they are.

And friendships, if they are real, are love.

Myself, I couldn't have sex without love, but I could definitely continue to love after the romance and sex ended, ended for whatever reason.

[Jack of Hearts]

Then it was never love. If you love, it doesn't change no matter what they do. It doesn't matter if they are with you or with someone else.

But is this your perspective or the echo of another?







J

[Maryd.]

Then it was never love. If you love, it doesn't change no matter what they do. It doesn't matter if they are with you or with someone else.

And there are some people who you can't help but love, because that's the kind of person they are.

And friendships, if they are real, are love.

Myself, I couldn't have sex without love, but I could definitely continue to love after the romance and sex ended, ended for whatever reason.

Seems you and I think alike. Thanks for that explanation. I loved someone once, still do. Always will. Even though he is with another.

[Vonny]

But is this your perspective or the echo of another?







J



This is me. There's someone I'm going to love forever and be so much richer (not money!) for loving -- no matter what.

[stlukesguild]

Lokasenna- It is, of course, possible to have sex with friends. Not in a romance/relationship way, but just for the fun of it.

Lokasenna... you sly dog...you have just risen several points in my esteem.:cheers2:

JackofHearts- Why are we obsessed with the permanent?

Give this reader romance, burning at both ends like a short fused M-80. Let it end badly. Let somebody lose some eyebrows.

Now we are getting somewhere.:devil: This reminds me of an earlier discussion with Neely on the "Classical Crushes" thread:

http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58513

Neely- It is not that I would turn down a hot, lusty night of (conversation?) with one of them there opera Valkyries you understand, I can certainly see the appeal dash it all (especially the Carmen I posted). However as long-term investments they just don't stand up to those Irish harpists/flute players, or indeed one of Brian's many oriental pianists/violinists ladies, for me anyway.

You'd wake up one day, half naked in some flush Parisian hotel with the mother of all champagne hangovers, in debt, hastily looking for your socks and wondering what the hell has just happened. In the bathroom would be a lipstick smeared message which would read "it's been nice, it's been hot" but then you are in the middle of Europe, sockless and left with nothing but those hot nights of "conversation". Is that what you want?:hand:

StLukesguild- I could probably live with that.

Neely- No. Much better to go fishing with the potential dad-in-law types or to hold in-depth conversations with Gandalf figures, and then to come home to a nice Irish lass who will read to you in that most beautiful, beautiful of accents before playing you a jig or something solemn on the harp or flute as you sit in your armchair looked after. Much better that methinks, oh yes.

SLG- Neely, you've become too much of the realist. You're not going to churn out the next body of brilliant poetry ala Charles Baudelaire inspired by that nice girl that even dear ol' mum would take to heart. You need the girl that mom always warned you about.:hand:

Of course losing an eyebrow or two is one thing... Brian/Emil came up with a "fantasy" that was a bit closer to a hellish spin on Neely's Parisian fling in which he conjured up a nightmare more along the line of waking up naked in the back room of a biker bar somewhere in Alabama, discovering your credit cards are all gone, and you have several new prominent tattoos... all involving misspelling.:sosp:

[Vonny]

Lokasenna- It is, of course, possible to have sex with friends. Not in a romance/relationship way, but just for the fun of it.

Lokasenna... you sly dog...you have just risen several points in my esteem.:cheers2:


I wouldn't call him sly, but he's one incredible animal. :)

[qimissung]

I like Jackson Browne, but it's hardly better than Emily Bronte, Vonny, at describing that most elusive emotion, love.

[BienvenuJDC]

Then it was never love. If you love, it doesn't change no matter what they do. It doesn't matter if they are with you or with someone else.

And there are some people who you can't help but love, because that's the kind of person they are.

And friendships, if they are real, are love.


This bears some real truth...

There are many kinds of "love". Consider the Greek language that uses several different words. Phileo is an affectionate love, eros a romantic love, and agape an unconditional love.

I chose to love the wife that decided to leave me. But there is one that I did not choose to love, but the love and desire for this individual chose me and enveloped me. I cannot choose NOT to love her. This is a case where love breaks the heart of the bearer outside of his ability to control it.

[Vonny]

I like Jackson Browne, but it's hardly better than Emily Bronte, Vonny, at describing that most elusive emotion, love.

Yes, you're right. My mind went around in a strange circle on this thread. That song is more about marriage than love.

Actually that song, for me, is about my mom. I know she's not going to last a lot longer and I could easily be the one to walk in and find her "gone." I've thought about her jewelry that she wears all the time. She has a giant antique ring, estate piece, that's very valuable, on her hand. I've wondered what I'll do, because I can't imagine taking that ring off her hand. I can't wear it myself, because on my hand it looks like I'm playing dress-up. She also wears a necklace and earrings all the time.

I've had a turbulent relationship with my mom. There are no holes in our walls - that's metaphorical for me - I feel that the holes are all through my psyche.

When it says at the end, "In the hour before dawn, when I knew she was gone." - I just feel that I've lived that a million times already. The way that Jackson sings that resonates with me, so final. And I wonder what I will do about her jewelry, just let it go to the morgue and let some minimun wage worker have it? I'd rather do that than take it off her and sell it.

My mom loves her jewelry. I feel terrible to throw it away. I also don't want to have it around me forever - and I feel guilty about not wanting my mom's jewelry and kind of wishing I could forget her.

I think I've lost my mind because I've thought about this but not mentioned it to my friend or my brother, or anyone, and here I am writing it on a forum.

Okay, off topic - and more of my boring crap :lol:

Anyway, when Breathtest said, "I don't understand why people are so negative about love," I really thought about it and realized that what goes on with my mom isn't agape, but agape exists. I know I have it for different people and animals.

[breathtest]

You've suddenly become a comedian breathtest or you're just pulling my leg. I've had a run in with friends, but the real friendships return to normal after forgiveness is restored. I've not known one love return; to either myself or loved ones and friends.

Care to name a few people who have returned to their original love state or remarriage and last

Maryd, I realise that it may be the truth for you that friends always return and lovers don't, but you have to admit that some lovers do stay together forever, and some people do remarry. It is a fact. I can't think of any people off the top of my head that have remarried and then stayed together, but it does happen. And I believe the reason that it doesn't happen more often is that the feelings in a love relationship are stronger. If you are hurt then you are hurt so much more than in a friendship, and so it is harder to go back and forget the pain.

So what I'm saying is I think that friendships aren't rekindled easily because they are stronger than romances, but because they are actually weaker.

[osho]

As a young man the topic fascinates me. Ah romance or friendship? Friendship can go without romance and yet I doubt romance can go without friendship. Even trolling with someone for a while romantically we need to build a friendship or else how can you get started. How can one hug the unknown? This is unthinkable. Hugging the one you do not know out of romantic feelings is ridiculous. I never can imagine.

[breathtest]

Here's the truth about me. I am completely in LOVE, in awe, with a certain man.

But there's something about the word "love" that leaves a metallic taste in my mouth. People have used it as a form of manipulation in my life. I think love is something that you show more than go around saying. I do say the word love to this person and mean it, but... it confuses me, sort of like Christianity.

What I mean is, the word confuses me, not the actual love.

For me, commitment is great, but no contracts and no entanglements - even like gay people with the same bank account.

But love is forever, like I have for all of my pets who have died. When someone is worth loving, because they are wonderful, it never diminishes.

This thread is making me think.

The person could leave or die, but you're left better for having known and loved them, even if it's bittersweet.

I agree Vonny. I don't think love is easily categorized into one word. I only use it for ease when talking about it. It's just something that happens by degrees. You can love a friend, but the love for a partner is usually more intense. It is a complicated thing I think, and so one word doesn't quite explain it or do it justice

[Maryd.]

Maryd, I realise that it may be the truth for you that friends always return and lovers don't, but you have to admit that some lovers do stay together forever, and some people do remarry. It is a fact. I can't think of any people off the top of my head that have remarried and then stayed together, but it does happen. And I believe the reason that it doesn't happen more often is that the feelings in a love relationship are stronger. If you are hurt then you are hurt so much more than in a friendship, and so it is harder to go back and forget the pain.

So what I'm saying is I think that friendships aren't rekindled easily because they are stronger than romances, but because they are actually weaker.

You are a darling... But I am not convinced. Thanks muchly for trying though. I do give you credit. :)

[breathtest]

You are a darling... But I am not convinced. Thanks muchly for trying though. I do give you credit.

hahaha. Thank you. Sometimes we do have opinions that will not be swayed.

[Maryd.]

hahaha. Thank you. Sometimes we do have opinions that will not be swayed.

And in this case you are correct. I'm not called hard-headed for nothing you know. :)

[OrphanPip]

Well the romantics made a big comeback from when it was 3 against 10.

[Maryd.]

Well the romantics made a big comeback from when it was 3 against 10.

Romantics... Can someone explain the word romance to me!

[BienvenuJDC]

Romantics... Can someone explain the word romance to me!

Honestly, it's origin has little to nothing to do with love...

Roman-like

[Vonny]

Lust is Roman-like. Romance is much different. A person can be romantic and lustful, such as Orphan Pip, but 99.9% of men are just lust.

It's difficult to define romantic, but if you look around here you can easily see it. Orphan Pip knows too, when he says, "Where have all the romantics gone?" He knows on this thread there's a classic one who isn't fessing up right now. A few romantics are here, and that's why Pip spends so much time here, rather than all the other places he could be.

And then, I'm not sure I believe in all the different kinds of love, or that friendship love or love for an animal is weaker... although it may feel different when it's combined with something like romance. Someone said, I think Breathtest, something like - this is very hard to break down and articulate.


In marital relationships what feels so strong, that grasping thing, is actually that element that Jackson Browne calls "wrong from the start." You can have desire for someone and experience it fully without all of that toxic grasping that causes you to make a mess of your life and other's lives.

Bienvenu: "I chose to love the wife that decided to leave me. But there is one that I did not choose to love, but the love and desire for this individual chose me and enveloped me. I cannot choose NOT to love her. This is a case where love breaks the heart of the bearer outside of his ability to control it."

I think something is going on here that you're not seeing... especially when you say, "I must be patient." But maybe I'm interpreting this wrong with all of the pronouns. I'm not sure if "her" is your wife or your new interest.

And I believe that love is 100% positive. If it is love from the start, it will never turn ugly on you, ever. It could become bittersweet, which I heard described in a Christian book as being like when your precious 2 year-old grows up and you yearn for those baby days, but still you're happy to see your child as an adult.

Love and Romance, and some lust too -- a wonderful combination.

Bienvenu - from my vantage point I can tell you that a 25 year-old woman can be mighty immature.

[breathtest]

I just don't think that if a relationship ends then the love was never there in the first place. I believe that love is less concrete than you think it is Vonny. I think that it can burn out, quickly or slowly, or it can keep on burning. It depends on the type of person you are as well as the type of person that you love, and maybe it also depends on a third element. I don't know. But I think if you feel you are in love at the time then you probably are. Maybe once you learn more about the other person that is when you begin to fall out of love with them, because before you knew them so well you were in love to an extent with the person you thought they were, rather than who they turned out to be. But I do think the love was still there. It might be a thing of the past, but I don't think that proves that it never was.

[Vonny]

You know what - I don't know anything. I'm a mass of confusion, just going through a difficult time in my life. All I know is I don't want a relationship that is going to bring pain to my life - why I'm here trying to give advice to everyone - I have no idea.

And I have no idea why I've been rather pursuing a certain person. I feel rather awful about it. I'm probably making his life miserable, which is not something I ever wanted to do.

[breathtest]

Oh we are all masses of confusion really, just trying to figure out what we mean and what our opinions are. I like this type of forum because by taking part in these discussions you can really delve into your own opinions and work things out for yourself.

And I know exactly what you mean. The kind of pain that can be caused by a relationship that you thought was great is the worst kind of pain. Unrequited love is a particular b****, as I learnt a few years ago.

[Maryd.]

Honestly, it's origin has little to nothing to do with love...

Roman-like

Not sure if that's the answer I was looking for! To me that sounds rather lustful, I was thinking more along the lines of loving someone without any doubt. Looks don't matter, finance doesn't matter, circumstances don't matter. Sorry I need more help in this department Bien.


You know what - I don't know anything. I'm a mass of confusion, just going through a difficult time in my life. All I know is I don't want a relationship that is going to bring pain to my life - why I'm here trying to give advice to everyone - I have no idea.

And I have no idea why I've been rather pursuing a certain person. I feel rather awful about it. I'm probably making his life miserable, which is not something I ever wanted to do.

Like a said earlier... We think alike. Don't beat yourself up so much about it. We've all been there. I'm still there. :sick:


Oh we are all masses of confusion really, just trying to figure out what we mean and what our opinions are. I like this type of forum because by taking part in these discussions you can really delve into your own opinions and work things out for yourself.

And I know exactly what you mean. The kind of pain that can be caused by a relationship that you thought was great is the worst kind of pain. Unrequited love is a particular b****, as I learnt a few years ago.

Seems everyone has their own story to tell.

[Vonny]

I just don't think that if a relationship ends then the love was never there in the first place. I believe that love is less concrete than you think it is Vonny. I think that it can burn out, quickly or slowly, or it can keep on burning. It depends on the type of person you are as well as the type of person that you love, and maybe it also depends on a third element. I don't know. But I think if you feel you are in love at the time then you probably are. Maybe once you learn more about the other person that is when you begin to fall out of love with them, because before you knew them so well you were in love to an extent with the person you thought they were, rather than who they turned out to be. But I do think the love was still there. It might be a thing of the past, but I don't think that proves that it never was.

This thread has really made me think! But we'll have to agree to disagree.

About 6 years ago I was completely in love with someone - I thought. Now I look back and I can see that it was not love, ever. It was something else, I'm not sure what.

When I was a child - age 8 through about 16 - my older brother had a friend I loved. My brothers had loads of friends, but this one, Craig, was different. My brothers were mean or indifferent to me, and their other friends would join in or just also be indifferent to me. Craig would come into the house and that would stop. I'm not sure why, but all of that would stop - even though, usually he said nothing to me or about me. It was just his presence. He was kind of a quiet sort. As I got older, once in a while he would say in front of everyone, "She is so pretty" - it was just friendly, not flirting. But my brother would just be stunned for a moment! One day he came into our house and he had a magazine with a certain celebrity on the cover, and he told my brother, "Your sister looks exactly like her." My brother just sat there dumbfounded.

This guy Craig was too old at that time for me. Plus, he couldn't have anything to do with his friend's younger sister, obviously. But I loved him, and I still do when I think of him. He moved away, and I haven't seen him for many years. I don't think of him all that often... but.

Today, I realize, that the kind of strength that Craig had is the kind of strength that I admire. It was something in his presence - not a bunch of aggression and intimidation and coercion. I just remembered that Craig had curly hair, and he studied all the time. He would come over to get my brother to help him with his math. ...What happens is you will subconsciously look for some of the traits in those people you love who are gone - in new people. That's why you don't lose them once you've known them.

Maybe I see this issue differently from other people, though, because I've never been through a marriage where I've been cheated on, and all that. All of that is outside of my experience.

I know I harp and obsess on this Bible thing too much also, but it is Jesus' presence, everything is simply in His presence for me, or anyway, it should be - not a lot of pushing people around.

[BienvenuJDC]

This thread has really made me think! But we'll have to agree to disagree.

About 6 years ago I was completely in love with someone - I thought. Now I look back and I can see that it was not love, ever. It was something else, I'm not sure what.

When I was a child - age 8 through about 16 - my older brother had a friend I loved. My brothers had loads of friends, but this one, Craig, was different. My brothers were mean or indifferent to me, and their other friends would join in or just also be indifferent to me. Craig would come into the house and that would stop. I'm not sure why, but all of that would stop - even though, usually he said nothing to me or about me. It was just his presence. He was kind of a quiet sort. As I got older, once in a while he would say in front of everyone, "She is so pretty" - it was just friendly, not flirting. But my brother would just be stunned for a moment! One day he came into our house and he had a magazine with a certain celebrity on the cover, and he told my brother, "Your sister looks exactly like her." My brother just sat there dumbfounded.

This guy Craig was too old at that time for me. Plus, he couldn't have anything to do with his friend's younger sister, obviously. But I loved him, and I still do when I think of him. He moved away, and I haven't seen him for many years. I don't think of him all that often... but.

Today, I realize, that the kind of strength that Craig had is the kind of strength that I admire. It was something in his presence - not a bunch of aggression and intimidation and coercion. I just remembered that Craig had curly hair, and he studied all the time. He would come over to get my brother to help him with his math. ...What happens is you will subconsciously look for some of the traits in those people you love who are gone - in new people. That's why you don't lose them once you've known them.

Maybe I see this issue differently from other people, though, because I've never been through a marriage where I've been cheated on, and all that. All of that is outside of my experience.

I know I harp and obsess on this Bible thing too much also, but it is Jesus' presence, everything is simply in His presence for me, or anyway, it should be - not a lot of pushing people around.

I understand what it is to be in love. It's not something that you TRY to do. And (IMO) "being in love" is not the same thing as "loving" someone. One is a feeling, while the other is an action.

[Vonny]

I understand what it is to be in love. It's not something that you TRY to do. And (IMO) "being in love" is not the same thing as "loving" someone. One is a feeling, while the other is an action.

It's confusing. I think, don't get married and don't have kids, and then just make it fun. I've had enough burden in life.

[osho]

Romantics... Can someone explain the word romance to me!

Romance is a little more physical than love and friendship. It is a little more sensual and has to do a little with the body, touching, caressing and hugging with a little spur. It is not the kind of love between siblings, parents and children.


This is what I understand it.

Maybe others have a different version to say

[Maryd.]

Romance is a little more physical than love and friendship. It is a little more sensual and has to do a little with the body, touching, caressing and hugging with a little spur. It is not the kind of love between siblings, parents and children.

This is what I understand it.

Maybe others have a different version to say

Well others may have a different opinion on Romance. Me, I believe there is no such thing. Romance and love died with Romeo and Juliet. I have never met a man who cares enough to be romantice. Just lustfull!

[osho]

Well others may have a different opinion on Romance. Me, I believe there is no such thing. Romance and love died with Romeo and Juliet. I have never met a man who cares enough to be romantice. Just lustfull!

This could be the version of someone who has yet to test the taste of love (this is a general statement). He or she will have yet to meet a person who really cares. Lust is there in everybody, though in some idealistic moment we belittle its worth, but lust blended with love is what makes man and also
woman contented.

Maryd, this world is too big to be judgmental about it. You have seen one side of the coin. Love, romance, fulfillment do exist as much as we do exist and write on this thread.

For a variety of reasons we have not been able to experience it. Or there might have been so many betrayals.

Romeo and Juliet do exist even today but the stage they are staging and the setting may be different.

Everyone is capable of being romantic and loved. The betrayer and the betrayed both want gratification. But for a variety of reasons or circumstantial things they might not be on the same wavelength and tastes may conflict.

I am sure if you try you will come across tens of thousands of Romeos and Juliets in this big world.

[Maryd.]

This could be the version of someone who has yet to test the taste of love (this is a general statement). He or she will have yet to meet a person who really cares. Lust is there in everybody, though in some idealistic moment we belittle its worth, but lust blended with love is what makes man and also
woman contented.

Maryd, this world is too big to be judgmental about it. You have seen one side of the coin. Love, romance, fulfillment do exist as much as we do exist and write on this thread.

For a variety of reasons we have not been able to experience it. Or there might have been so many betrayals.

Romeo and Juliet do exist even today but the stage they are staging and the setting may be different.

Everyone is capable of being romantic and loved. The betrayer and the betrayed both want gratification. But for a variety of reasons or circumstantial things they might not be on the same wavelength and tastes may conflict.

I am sure if you try you will come across tens of thousands of Romeos and Juliets in this big world.

And when I find those tens of thousands of Romeos and Juliets... I'll come back and let you know. And that my dear sir or madam is a promise.

In the meantime, I do hope you have your Romeo or Juliet and I do hope that betrayal never happens to you.

Regards.

[MarkBastable]

Well others may have a different opinion on Romance. Me, I believe there is no such thing. Romance and love died with Romeo and Juliet. I have never met a man who cares enough to be romantice. Just lustfull!

So if there used to be romance in some faraway time, what happened to stop it so completely? What universal cataclysm put an end to the possibility of men expressing love, and made every single one of us incapable of anything but lust? I mean, you'd think that such a seismic shift in the conduct of human relations might have been remarked upon in some account somewhere.

[Maryd.]

So if there used to be romance in some faraway time, what happened to stop it so completely? What universal cataclysm put an end to the possibility of men expressing love, and made every single one of us incapable of anything but lust? I mean, you'd think that such a seismic shift in the conduct of human relations might have been remarked upon in some account somewhere.

Hahaha. Don't know. If you are a man, then you tell me.

[osho]

And when I find those tens of thousands of Romeos and Juliets... I'll come back and let you know. And that my dear sir or madam is a promise.

In the meantime, I do hope you have your Romeo or Juliet and I do hope that betrayal never happens to you.

Regards.

I understand the predicament we all are in. We are hard-pressed humans and particularly in big and industrialized countries. We have been too much self-centered and as such we cannot feel anything for others. Money, power, post, society are some of the things we are running after in a rat race.

Mary, this is not only your experience but we all are compelled to undergo similar experiences. We are capable of loving and beloved despite the fact that we have had little of it in our condition. There is a crevice in our understanding and communication. Everyone, deep inside wants love but it has never been communicated convincingly. The glimmer of love is extinguished but the flame is still there inside us, though inertly or covertly at its embryonic phase.

Love is there on this planet, though we see the shadow of it since we remain uncared, betrayed and misunderstood.

Many of us have seen it and yet felt betrayed.

We have the capacity to love and that is why the wheel of time still keeps moving.

[MarkBastable]

Hahaha. Don't know. If you are a man, then you tell me.

Well, I'm not supposed to tell you this, but all us men got together to discuss whether or not to give up entirely on the romance thing and just stick to lust. The vote was split, so we decided that we'd do the romantic thing with some women but not with all of them. The characteristic that determines whether or not a woman is eligible for romance is - well - it's a bit obscure, but absolutely unmistakeable. You've either got it, or you haven't, and there's nothing you can do to change it.

Obviously I'm not permitted to tell you what it is.

[Maryd.]

I understand the predicament we all are in. We are hard-pressed humans and particularly in big and industrialized countries. We have been too much self-centered and as such we cannot feel anything for others. Money, power, post, society are some of the things we are running after in a rat race.

Mary, this is not only your experience but we all are compelled to undergo similar experiences. We are capable of loving and beloved despite the fact that we have had little of it in our condition. There is a crevice in our understanding and communication. Everyone, deep inside wants love but it has never been communicated convincingly. The glimmer of love is extinguished but the flame is still there inside us, though inertly or covertly at its embryonic phase.

Love is there on this planet, though we see the shadow of it since we remain uncared, betrayed and misunderstood.

Many of us have seen it and yet felt betrayed.

We have the capacity to love and that is why the wheel of time still keeps moving.

How poetic.


Everyone, deep inside wants love but it has never been communicated convincingly.

:nono: Not everyone! Although my negativity is only half true. I did once... Want love, just like your "everyone" but now I don't. I have unconditional love from my friends and family and romance is no longer on my list.

It's been deleted from my mind once and for all. I am still happy with friendship though. I don't dispise men completely. Heck, most of my friends are men. But none of them will ever lead to romance.

[Vonny]

I see it completely differently. Romantic is a personality trait - well, not a trait, exactly, but what a person is. Some people are romantic. It is very rare, however. The vast majority of people who think they are romantic, aren't. But to me, romantic is not an activity going on in a certain situation, such as bringing wine or having candle-light. The majority of men could bring wine, and it doesn't change the fact that you think - yuck!

Romantic is in the person and more than in how they act with someone else, and either they have it or they don't - no one can fake it.

But it's like a sense of humor. If someone has a sense of humor, it's there all the time and you sense that they have it, but it's going to be much more on display in certain situations, or with certain people, than with others.

I'm thinking in terms of men, I can't apply romantic to women too well.

[SleepyWitch]

In my experience the feelings that happen to you during a romance can be far stronger than any friendship. It's why some people end up ignoring their friends when they get a girlfriend/boyfriend. They'd much rather be with the romantic partner. So I would have to go with romance. If it makes you feel so terrible when it ends, that is only because it was so strong in the first place.

If it makes you feel so terrible when it ends, then that's not because it was strong but because you were more dependent than any grown-up person sould be. (I'm not attacking you personally, just trashing romantic love.)

[osho]

How poetic.



:nono: Not everyone! Although my negativity is only half true. I did once... Want love, just like your "everyone" but now I don't. I have unconditional love from my friends and family and romance is no longer on my list.

It's been deleted from my mind once and for all. I am still happy with friendship though. I don't dispise men completely. Heck, most of my friends are men. But none of them will ever lead to romance.


What you speak mirrors the core of your personality, Maryd and there is a pool of love, compassion, though half-manifest inside you. That you did once and got over it does not mean that love does not exist for you and for the rest. There is a reason for why you have negativity and the other must be accountable for all that happened.

I know you cannot despise men and the reason is there is a fountain of trust, understanding, empathy, good-heartedness and many other enriching emotions inside you. Though you may sound unromantic in some usual way, I cannot say you are incapable of it, since the source inside you has not dried up, I am sure.

However, romance is not be all and end all, maryd. Romance stimulates us physically and friendship and empathy stirs us in everyway. The one who has the capacity to empathize, understand and keep friends has the capacity for love, romance in a certain circumstance.

Everyone is a rose. But what demands of us is the change or repair of the lens thru which we look

[Maryd.]

What you speak mirrors the core of your personality, Maryd and there is a pool of love, compassion, though half-manifest inside you. That you did once and got over it does not mean that love does not exist for you and for the rest. There is a reason for why you have negativity and the other must be accountable for all that happened.

I know you cannot despise men and the reason is there is a fountain of trust, understanding, empathy, good-heartedness and many other enriching emotions inside you. Though you may sound unromantic in some usual way, I cannot say you are incapable of it, since the source inside you has not dried up, I am sure.

However, romance is not be all and end all, maryd. Romance stimulates us physically and friendship and empathy stirs us in everyway. The one who has the capacity to empathize, understand and keep friends has the capacity for love, romance in a certain circumstance.

Everyone is a rose. But what demands of us is the change or repair of the lens thru which we look

I can see there's no convincing you on this matter. We could go on like this all night. But where would it lead us. You still trying to convince me of romance; be it with a man or whatever. And me trying to tell you over and over again, that romance just isn't for me.

Therefore I'll leave it with you to convince another. My heart just cannot change. Thanks for trying though.

[osho]

I can see there's no convincing you on this matter. We could go on like this all night. But where would it lead us. You still trying to convince me of romance; be it with a man or whatever. And me trying to tell you over and over again, that romance just isn't for me.

Therefore I'll leave it with you to convince another. My heart just cannot change. Thanks for trying though.

I am misread, Maryd. I am not trying to convince you of anything and I am a friend and will be it for good and however with a little good-heartedness and humility I am communicating. We all are strangers here.

We are friends and want to relate on friendly terms and that brought us here on the forum. Misunderstanding is likely to pop up since we belong to different cultures, different circumstances. However friendships can transcend such barriering limits.

[Maryd.]

I am misread, Maryd. I am not trying to convince you of anything and I am a friend and will be it for good and however with a little good-heartedness and humility I am communicating. We all are strangers here.

We are friends and want to relate on friendly terms and that brought us here on the forum. Misunderstanding is likely to pop up since we belong to different cultures, different circumstances. However friendships can transcend such barriering limits.

Friendship is what I was on about in the first place.

Thanks my friend.

[osho]

Friendship is what I was on about in the first place.

Thanks my friend.

Nothing can make humans happier than friendship and this transcends culture, sex, nationality and religion. In friendship all that matters is understanding.

And I hope we have it.

[breathtest]

If it makes you feel so terrible when it ends, then that's not because it was strong but because you were more dependent than any grown-up person sould be. (I'm not attacking you personally, just trashing romantic love.)

And you were so dependent because the feelings you had were suddenly so strong, like nothing you have felt before. And so you are completely at the mercy of this one other human being.

[SleepyWitch]

And you were so dependent because the feelings you had were suddenly so strong, like nothing you have felt before. And so you are completely at the mercy of this one other human being.

Romantic feelings don't get suddenly strong. Most people get to know a person they fall in love with before they fall in love. They might get to know them in a 'superficial' way. After a while they allow themselves to fall in love because they judge being in a love to be a good thing, or because they judge not being able to 'have' that person to be a good thing. If your basic attitude is that being in love is a nuisance or that you can love a person for their character without having to possess them, then you won't fall in love, or at least not quite as hard. If you've been hopelessly in love a couple of times before, you'll be able to see the signs and take more time to make your judgements.

[MarkBastable]

Some friends of mine got married in their early thirties, and jetted off to spend two weeks in the Caribbean at a rather nice hotel.

An older couple started chatting to them in the bar.

"So, you're newly-weds, I'm guessing," the older man said. "Just married, am I right?"

My friends confirmed that this was indeed the case.

The two middle-aged people beamed approvingly. "You kids savour every moment of your honeymoon," the guy advised. "It's an experience you're gonna get maybe only three or four times in your whole life."

[breathtest]

SleepyWitch - I don't think falling in love is a thing that you have much control over. And from my experience, romantic feelings do get suddenly strong. I have experienced it, and it can be very overwhelming to realize how much you need the other person. I just cannot agree that people 'allow' themselves to fall in love or that they 'judge being in love to be a good thing'. Unrequited love, for example, is not 'a good thing' for the person in love as it causes them so much pain, and yet they are helpless, they cannot choose simply not to be in love because it is not beneficial.

[osho]

SleepyWitch - I don't think falling in love is a thing that you have much control over. And from my experience, romantic feelings do get suddenly strong. I have experienced it, and it can be very overwhelming to realize how much you need the other person. I just cannot agree that people 'allow' themselves to fall in love or that they 'judge being in love to be a good thing'. Unrequited love, for example, is not 'a good thing' for the person in love as it causes them so much pain, and yet they are helpless, they cannot choose simply not to be in love because it is not beneficial.

Love is always requited and if love is unrequited this is not love and this is infatuation done to fulfill certain of your physical desires and beyond that there is nothing. Once that animalistic desire is fulfilled everything is over.

Romance can be like that but not love. Most confuse romance with love. They are poles apart. Romance has to do with bodily expression, love though bodily communication is there it transcends that limit too

[breathtest]

I believe that you can love somebody and they not love you back. I don't believe it is merely infatuation. It feels the same as normal love except there is more pain.

[BienvenuJDC]

SleepyWitch - I don't think falling in love is a thing that you have much control over. And from my experience, romantic feelings do get suddenly strong. I have experienced it, and it can be very overwhelming to realize how much you need the other person. I just cannot agree that people 'allow' themselves to fall in love or that they 'judge being in love to be a good thing'. Unrequited love, for example, is not 'a good thing' for the person in love as it causes them so much pain, and yet they are helpless, they cannot choose simply not to be in love because it is not beneficial.

I agree with you. I think that you hit the nail on the head. But I do believe that some people can choose to deny their feelings (which is not the same as choosing not to be in love).

[breathtest]

I agree with you. I think that you hit the nail on the head. But I do believe that some people can choose to deny their feelings (which is not the same as choosing not to be in love).

Yeah I think some people do that. But then lurking under the surface there must be that love eating away at them.

[Ecurb]

How about "friendship with benefits"? Can that be an additional choice?

[breathtest]

Or romance without benefits? Some kind of platonic heaven

[Ecurb]

I'll vote for friendship WITH benefits over romance WITHOUT.

[breathtest]

No way man, too complicated. I know it's a cliche but that kind of relationship just won't work. Come to think of it, a romance without benefits would be pretty difficult too. You'd have to be a eunuch maybe.

[Vonny]

Hi Ecurb! - see page 1, post #15

It's never good to deny feelings, but they usually stem from thoughts. If dysfunctional thoughts are giving you trouble, you can practice simply witnessing them and detaching from them. In a week or two, they will have no power over you. If your brain is tossing out thoughts that: "I must possess this girl Crystal," recognize that your brain is malfunctioning. Don't try to make the thoughts go away, don't struggle with them, just allow the thoughts to be there and gradually focus on something else; the thoughts and feelings will go away quicker than you think. With practice, it's not difficult. There's no reason for anyone to be miserable. This a Buddhist or Zen concept, but it works.

Unless you've taken the stand that you're the representative of Christ, or under age of 20, there's got to be benefits of some kind. Let's get real.

[Ecurb]

Hi Ecurb! - see page 1, post #15

.

Sex with friends is OK, but sex with enemies can really get steamy! I recommend it!

[Vonny]

Sex with friends is OK, but sex with enemies can really get steamy! I recommend it!

I always think I have you pigeon-holed, and then you rearrange my brain! :lol:


Edit: My brain is trying to click in - if it weren't for this kind of union, I wouldn't be here. I'm trying to figure out how I feel about it!

[Miss 87]

from my point of view , the concept of friendship is wider than romance because of many reasons
friendship can be with any gender, in any age,culture,religion or ....
and it does not require to be polite and perfect all time. you can be as you like not as the other wants you to be like. it is more easy than romance:biggrin5:

[OrphanPip]

Sex with friends is OK, but sex with enemies can really get steamy! I recommend it!

Sex with enemies is one I haven't tried. It sounds awful though.

[Ecurb]

Sex with enemies is one I haven't tried. It sounds awful though.

No love-hate relationships in your past? "Awful", of course, can mean "inspires awe". So I agree!

[breathtest]

from my point of view , the concept of friendship is wider than romance because of many reasons
friendship can be with any gender, in any age,culture,religion or ....
and it does not require to be polite and perfect all time. you can be as you like not as the other wants you to be like. it is more easy than romance

Can romance not be with any gender, (almost) any age, culture, religion? And I have never been involved in a romance that required me to be polite and perfect all the time. I don't think romance is ever the way it is portrayed on, for example, television. It is possible to be who you really are and not repel the other person.

[Ecurb]

Can friendship offer this?

I WILL make you brooches and toys for your delight
Of bird-song at morning and star-shine at night.
I will make a palace fit for you and me,
Of green days in forests and blue days at sea.

I will make my kitchen, and you shall keep your room,
Where white flows the river and bright blows the broom,
And you shall wash your linen and keep your body white
In rainfall at morning and dewfall at night.

And this shall be for music when no one else is near,
The fine song for singing, the rare song to hear!
That only I remember, that only you admire,
Of the broad road that stretches and the roadside fire.


"Romance" R.L. Stevenson

[BienvenuJDC]

Can friendship offer this?

I WILL make you brooches and toys for your delight
Of bird-song at morning and star-shine at night.
I will make a palace fit for you and me,
Of green days in forests and blue days at sea.

I will make my kitchen, and you shall keep your room,
Where white flows the river and bright blows the broom,
And you shall wash your linen and keep your body white
In rainfall at morning and dewfall at night.

And this shall be for music when no one else is near,
The fine song for singing, the rare song to hear!
That only I remember, that only you admire,
Of the broad road that stretches and the roadside fire.


"Romance" R.L. Stevenson


(I like this)
If you confine a friendship...No...

I personally want a romance that is established in a friendship. (of course all of the other friendships can remain just that)

[Vonny]

Sex with enemies is one I haven't tried. It sounds awful though.

You're not American. This is American-style love.

Ecurb - there is no "awe" in awful!

[JuniperWoolf]

People make that assumption in Canada too (where Pip and I are from). For a while my boyfriend thought that I had a crush on Virgil because I'd rage about him every time I went on the computer. I had to learn to bite my tongue because for some reason having an "enemy" translated in Dave's mind as "boy, I sure do like him." My mom used to tell me to stop fighting the boys in my class because "everyone's just going to think that you have crushes on them anyway." Why can't I just not get along with someone someone without all of these outrageous accusations, dammit!

Human brains are weird. For some reason we assume that since "opposites attract" works for magnets it applies to us too, they're constantly using the term to describe human attraction. I've never seen it actually displayed, except for maybe in the case of little boys who cut off little girls' pigtails as a display of affection. When we're adults, we tend to pick people who are similar to ourselves. I think it's because it re-inforces our opinions (like having "back up," it proves to ourselves that our world views are valid).

[cl154576]

Masochists, maybe?

[Vonny]

What?

In order to have romance, you must first have a romantic man.

[Vonny]

O Pip?

[BienvenuJDC]

But what is Romantic?

[Maryd.]

Nothing Bien. It's all... um... er... b*******. Ooops, did I sworded... Hahaha.

Give me friends anyday. :)

[Vonny]

But what is Romantic?

He's out there, I've discovered.

[BienvenuJDC]

He's out there, I've discovered.

Discovered a particular one? Hmmm..... :-D

Do tell...

[Vonny]

Discovered a particular one? Hmmm..... :-D

Do tell...

Too special!

[BienvenuJDC]

Too special!

May be as special as mine....
She's like a Russian princess...(hint)

[Revolte]

Wait who mentioned sex with enemies? You are my hero. There is no limit to the amount of win in that Idea. But how can you commit the act, without busting up laughing at the irony. And I think we all know what thought will be going through the mind lol. A select few unpleasant words.

[Haunted]

Well, I'm not supposed to tell you this, but all us men got together to discuss whether or not to give up entirely on the romance thing and just stick to lust. The vote was split, so we decided that we'd do the romantic thing with some women but not with all of them. The characteristic that determines whether or not a woman is eligible for romance is - well - it's a bit obscure, but absolutely unmistakeable. You've either got it, or you haven't, and there's nothing you can do to change it.

Obviously I'm not permitted to tell you what it is.

Do tell!

Then again, romance without lust would be terribly boring, wouldn't it. If these two are mutually exclusive then I will have to change my vote.

[Maryd.]

Originally Posted by MarkBastable
Well, I'm not supposed to tell you this, but all us men got together to discuss whether or not to give up entirely on the romance thing and just stick to lust. The vote was split, so we decided that we'd do the romantic thing with some women but not with all of them. The characteristic that determines whether or not a woman is eligible for romance is - well - it's a bit obscure, but absolutely unmistakeable. You've either got it, or you haven't, and there's nothing you can do to change it.

Obviously I'm not permitted to tell you what it is.

Oh, I missed this one Mr B. If you are going to make statements like this, I agree with Haunted, do tell!

[Vonny]

May be as special as mine....
She's like a Russian princess...(hint)

Hmm... a princess of any nationality can be high-maintenance. :rolleyes5:

My mother married my father after she had known him for two months. She thought he was a knight in shining armor.


It's better not to marry at all, but marriage is allowed to prevent fornication:


1 Corinthians 7:1-2
Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.


Maybe it's a good idea if you're 38 to marry a 25 year-old because if the marriage ends it will likely be that she cheated, which will allow for another try, since it appears that in the event of adultery another marriage is allowed:


Matthew 19:9
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

Regardless, the Lord hates divorce, so it seems it would be best to take all measures to avoid it.

But I know when people are in love and struggling to have patience, they aren't likely to take any advice.

[BienvenuJDC]

Hmm... a princess of any nationality can be high-maintenance. :rolleyes5:

My mother married my father after she had known him for two months. She thought he was a knight in shining armor.


It's better not to marry at all, but marriage is allowed to prevent fornication:




Maybe it's a good idea if you're 38 to marry a 25 year-old because if the marriage ends it will likely be that she cheated, which will allow for another try, since it appears that in the event of adultery another marriage is allowed:



Regardless, the Lord hates divorce, so it seems it would be best to take all measures to avoid it.

But I know when people are in love and struggling to have patience, they aren't likely to take any advice.

Actually...she just shares the name of a Russian princess.
And I'm not looking for a relationship that is going to end, but I'm looking for someone who will be faithful to the end. I'm not sure why the age difference would result in HER cheating. That has more to do with if she is a faithful individual. I agree...I will not divorce again.

Oh...I've learned to take advice, but when you get advice that varies so much, it's still left to making a decision.


Do tell!

Then again, romance without lust would be terribly boring, wouldn't it. If these two are mutually exclusive then I will have to change my vote.

Haunted....there you are. I've missed you.

[Vonny]

Actually...she just shares the name of a Russian princess.
And I'm not looking for a relationship that is going to end, but I'm looking for someone who will be faithful to the end. I'm not sure why the age difference would result in HER cheating. That has more to do with if she is a faithful individual. I agree...I will not divorce again.

Oh...I've learned to take advice, but when you get advice that varies so much, it's still left to making a decision.

But I think your plan is "a go" as soon as your divorce is final. Is her name Anastasia?

I want to say whole-heartedly, "Good luck to you, Bienvenu. I wish you happiness." But there's no place for luck in the lives of Christians.

I probably shouldn't ask so it's fair to admonish me, (I'm not sure what's polite and what isn't, since I didn't learn to socialize properly growing up) but I suppose you will have another family? A Christian woman that young usually wants to begin a family, if she doesn't have children already.

[BienvenuJDC]

But I think your plan is "a go" as soon as your divorce is final. Is her name Anastasia?

I want to say whole-heartedly, "Good luck to you, Bienvenu. I wish you happiness." But there's no place for luck in the lives of Christians.

I probably shouldn't ask so it's fair to admonish me, (I'm not sure what's polite and what isn't, since I didn't learn to socialize properly growing up) but I suppose you will have another family? A Christian woman that young usually wants to begin a family, if she doesn't have children already.

Yes...it's ok to ask. I have already considered that, and I am ready to start the family thing over again (while keeping up with the responsibility of the two that I have). Instead of Good luck...how about Godspeed? Or...may good fortune come upon you.

Oh...and remember, I'm a Christian. I'm not perfect, but I've been perfected. I make mistakes all the time...and have trouble keeping my foot out of my mouth, but I'm trying.

[Vonny]

Lokasenna... you sly dog...you have just risen several points in my esteem.:cheers2:


You didn't comment on the Welsh artwork, but did you notice it? He's filling out quite nicely lately.

Contrary to slyness, according to Andy Orchard's introduction to the Elder Edda, Loki "claims in Lokasenna to have cunningly conquered almost every goddess that we know," and that's not all he did... it speaks of "his all-embracing appetites." Of course this is only a namesake, but he does seem to identify strongly with it. Who knows what it could inspire in him?

You've got some notches in your belt Luke, but it's possible he could catch up with you someday.

(I'll be scared to click on this forum tomorrow!!)

[Alexander III]

I would choose romance any-day over friendship. I have the misfortune of falling in love very easily and then being wilds passionate about the girl, and then because my passion burned so bright it kinda consumes itself and I get bored, and begin to resent her for having taken away the passion so to say.

Of course I still have trouble differentiating between love and lust...

[JuniperWoolf]

^I used to be the same way. In order to get beyond it, I take off sporadically and without notice or communication and let myself miss people (not just lovers, but friends, family members, whatever). The whole "absence makes the heart grow fonder" cliche really is true. Getting stuck in a rut with the people that you love is the worst thing in the world, it feels like death because it feels like nothingness. Skipping town for a few weeks prevents the problem from even happening in the first place. Plus it makes you look more mysterious and thus they want you more. "Where the hell is Robin? Did she dissapear again? Where does she keep going?" (never tell them) Also, it's just straight-up fun.

It'll be bad if I'm ever kidnapped or something though, because people will just think that I took off again. Oh well.

[osho]

Romance is sensuality manifest and in a partner I want it abundant or else the affair will dry up ending up in avoidance.

Lust is love in part and friendship is something that kicks off it. True friendship culminates in lust.

Friendship, love, romance and lust combined in a good proportion enriches our bodily pleasures and elevate our spiritual-selves

[cl154576]

True friendship culminates in lust.

That seems strange coming from someone who talks about spirituality.

Maybe all you adults have lost the capacity for pure love. I don't know. But I can assure you, as a child, I never lusted after my parent-figures. All the hormones are getting to my head and now there's an element of physical attraction and increased gender sensitivity. I suppose if you tried hard enough you could distort that to lust, although I don't think it would exist if my parent-figures were related to me. However, I will emphatically maintain that two years ago I was totally insensible to physical appearance. If I think of my acquaintances from that time I cannot recall whether they were ugly or good-looking or fat or thin, now things that I perceive within seconds of meeting a person.

[joelavine]

I chose friendship, because being a person of middle age, romance, one a major controlling and wondrous force in my life, and I wouldn't have had it any other way, no longer holds the same place in my life. To everything there is a season.

[Veho]

I've changed my mind. I choose friendship. I realised today I've got the bestest friend ever and it's had an effect on me.

[Delta40]

Friendship everytime. Reliable, loving and supportive and they leave you free to become your own person...

[Basil]

...being a person of middle age, romance, one a major controlling and wondrous force in my life, and I wouldn't have had it any other way, no longer holds the same place in my life. To everything there is a season.

Yes, but for some of us, the season for romance is middle-age. Just lucky, I guess.

...because can I tell you something? It's kind of magical. :smilewinkgrin: