Blasphemy

[G L Wilson]

No blasphemy law has ever been overturned in the land of separation of Church and State.

What does this tell you about America?

[Calidore]

Are they still enforced, or are they simply forgotten?

Also, what's your source for the claim?

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

What blasphemy laws?

[stlukesguild]

It doesn't tell us anything about the US, but your post is simply one more example of your continual troll-like behavior to say nothing of your absolute ignorance of US law:

A prosecution for blasphemy in the United States would fail as a violation of the U.S. Constitution. The First Amendment to the United States Constitution provides:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press . . . ."

Because of the First Amendment's protection of free speech and religious exercise from federal interference, and the Fourteenth Amendment's extension of those protections against state regulation, the United States and its constituent state governments may not prosecute blasphemous speech or religious insults and may not allow civil actions on those grounds. In Joseph Burstyn, Inc. v. Wilson, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that New York could not enforce a censorship law against filmmakers whose films contained "sacrilegious" content. The opinion of the Court, by Justice Clark, stated that:

"from the standpoint of freedom of speech and the press, it is enough to point out that the state has no legitimate interest in protecting any or all religions from views distasteful to them which is sufficient to justify prior restraints upon the expression of those views. It is not the business of government in our nation to suppress real or imagined attacks upon a particular religious doctrine, whether they appear in publications, speeches, or motion pictures."

[papayahed]

Examples please.

[G L Wilson]

It doesn't tell us anything about the US, but your post is simply one more example of your continual troll-like behavior to say nothing of your absolute ignorance of US law:

A prosecution for blasphemy in the United States would fail as a violation of the U.S. Constitution. The First Amendment to the United States Constitution provides:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press . . . ."

Because of the First Amendment's protection of free speech and religious exercise from federal interference, and the Fourteenth Amendment's extension of those protections against state regulation, the United States and its constituent state governments may not prosecute blasphemous speech or religious insults and may not allow civil actions on those grounds. In Joseph Burstyn, Inc. v. Wilson, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that New York could not enforce a censorship law against filmmakers whose films contained "sacrilegious" content. The opinion of the Court, by Justice Clark, stated that:

"from the standpoint of freedom of speech and the press, it is enough to point out that the state has no legitimate interest in protecting any or all religions from views distasteful to them which is sufficient to justify prior restraints upon the expression of those views. It is not the business of government in our nation to suppress real or imagined attacks upon a particular religious doctrine, whether they appear in publications, speeches, or motion pictures."

As far as I know the laws are still on the books which means religionists can run obstruction at will at anything that displeases them.

[stlukesguild]

As far as I know the laws are still on the books which means religionists can run obstruction at will at anything that displeases them.

And of course you're an expert on American law... and racism and antisemitism and quite a few other things to boot, eh?

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

As far as I know the laws are still on the books which means religionists can run obstruction at will at anything that displeases them.
They don't, though. There are dozens of ridiculous, out-of-date laws on the books. In Alabama, for instance, it's illegal to put on bear fights. In Topeka, Kansas, it's illegal to sing the alphabet on the streets at night, etc. So, what's your point?

Plus, I looked up Australia; it's not like it's much better.

And we're still waiting for some examples.

[Delta40]

I think you're right Mutatis. America is more predominate than Australia and hence open to more scrutiny

[G L Wilson]

As far as I know the laws are still on the books which means religionists can run obstruction at will at anything that displeases them.

And of course you're an expert on American law... and racism and antisemitism and quite a few other things to boot, eh?

In America, the establishment of religion is the real law.

[Red-Headed]

The one thing that I have never totally understood about blasphemy is, if god actually is omnipotent, why is he/she/it worried about being called names?

[Varenne Rodin]

The one thing that I have never totally understood about blasphemy is, if god actually is omnipotent, why is he/she/it worried about being called names?

He's an insecure bully, and I'm going to take him down.

[BienvenuJDC]

In America, the establishment of religion is the real law.

Please document (or at least explain).

[BienvenuJDC]

The one thing that I have never totally understood about blasphemy is, if god actually is omnipotent, why is he/she/it worried about being called names?

If you really understood what blasphemy was in a biblical content, you'd understand that He is actually looking out for the good of people (not Himself).

[G L Wilson]

If you really understood what blasphemy was in a biblical content, you'd understand that He is actually looking out for the good of people (not Himself).

Yeah, that's why a few centuries ago they would have branded you and cut out your tongue for blasphemy because religion is good for you.

[Red-Headed]

If you really understood what blasphemy was in a biblical content, you'd understand that He is actually looking out for the good of people (not Himself).

That must be what it is, I just don't believe in god though. So it sort of negates the whole concept of blasphemy.

I really understand that blasphemy laws are used to control people. That's their real reason for existing.

Just another shackle on freedom ...

[G L Wilson]

That must be what it is, I just don't believe in god though. So it sort of negates the whole concept of blasphemy.

I really understand that blasphemy laws are used to control people. That's their real reason for existing.

Just another shackle on freedom ...

No, God loves you, Red-Headed, don't you know?

[Red-Headed]

No, God loves you, Red-Headed, don't you know?

It's not reciprocal.

[Delta40]

I'm middle aged and still have not arrived at a decision on the existence of God. I cannot however discount that I have a spiritual self.

[Red-Headed]

I'm middle aged and still have not arrived at a decision on the existence of God. I cannot however discount that I have a spiritual self.

I believe in spirits alright!

:party::party::party::party::party::party:

Or am I thinking of grain alcohol?

[G L Wilson]

I believe in spirits alright!

:party::party::party::party::party::party:

Or am I thinking of grain alcohol?

Am thinking mushrooms.

[Delta40]

grain alcohol for sure! I held my father's hand when he passed away and it was the most amazing experience I have ever known. I really could not deny some higher power in the room that day and the chain of events that led me to being there.

[G L Wilson]

grain alcohol for sure! I held my father's hand when he passed away and it was the most amazing experience I have ever known. I really could not deny some higher power in the room that day and the chain of events that led me to being there.

If it works for you, Delta40, go with it.

[Red-Headed]

Am thinking mushrooms.

Liberty Cap? (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Liberty_cap_%28mushroom%29)

[Red-Headed]

grain alcohol for sure! I held my father's hand when he passed away and it was the most amazing experience I have ever known. I really could not deny some higher power in the room that day and the chain of events that led me to being there.

That's a sobering thought.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

I really understand that blasphemy laws are used to control people. That's their real reason for existing.

Just another shackle on freedom ...
Maybe you could explain this, give some examples, etc. I'd ask G L, but that's futile.

[Ecurb]

Yeah, that's why a few centuries ago they would have branded you and cut out your tongue for blasphemy because religion is good for you.

Whereas today eliminating internet posting privileges seems more appropriate.

[Red-Headed]

Maybe you could explain this, give some examples, etc. I'd ask G L, but that's futile.

Do I really need to explain this? In some religions, blasphemy is punishable by death. It is used to persecute religious minorities in countries like Pakistan to this day.

If you can't disagree with the orthodoxy, you have effectively been gagged. Therefore it is a control system.

*Simples*

[Drkshadow03]

No blasphemy law has ever been overturned in the land of separation of Church and State.

What does this tell you about America?

It tells me you didn't bother to do your research on this topic. What time period do most of these blasphemy laws originate from? How often are they enforced today? And when they have been enforced, how have the federal and state courts ruled?

[Junglord]

That must be what it is, I just don't believe in god though. So it sort of negates the whole concept of blasphemy.

I really understand that blasphemy laws are used to control people. That's their real reason for existing.

Just another shackle on freedom ...

You seem to assume freedom is of more value than anything else, interesting.

Remember, Jesus was nailed to the cross because he was accussed of blaspheming in the first place!!! If God exists he has a great sense of humour!

I think that Christianity has been given a bad light and as you see it a way to control people. Religion has been seen to benefit certain authorities as a means of control though I do not believe this was their first intention. Just read the bible, especially the second testament, as it goes against a lot of what was deemed morally right and it went against the leaders of the jewish faith of the time.

[G L Wilson]

It tells me you didn't bother to do your research on this topic. What time period do most of these blasphemy laws originate from? How often are they enforced today? And when they have been enforced, how have the federal and state courts ruled?

There is a world of difference between religion and free speech.

[Drkshadow03]

There is a world of difference between religion and free speech.

Wow, so profound. Glad you really took the time to address all of those questions.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Do I really need to explain this? In some religions, blasphemy is punishable by death. It is used to persecute religious minorities in countries like Pakistan to this day.

If you can't disagree with the orthodoxy, you have effectively been gagged. Therefore it is a control system.

*Simples*
Oh, okay. For countries like that, sure. I thought you were referring to the USA.

Wow, so profound. Glad you really took the time to address all of those questions.
:lol:

[G L Wilson]

It's not like an accusation of blasphemy still can't get you in trouble.

[Drkshadow03]

It's not like an accusation of blasphemy still can't get you in trouble.

Care to elaborate?

[G L Wilson]

Care to elaborate?

It will not get you in trouble with the law but it will get you crucified.

[Drkshadow03]

It will not get you in trouble with the law but it will get you crucified.

Nah, crucifixions are just lazy people's metaphors. If you insult someone's beliefs it shouldn't be all that surprising that they probably will not want to invite you to join them at the local pub and get some beers.

[G L Wilson]

Nah, crucifixions are just lazy people's metaphors. If you insult someone's beliefs it shouldn't be all that surprising that they probably will not want to invite you to join them at the local pub and get some beers.

What other kind of metaphor could I have used?

[Red-Headed]

Oh, okay. For countries like that, sure. I thought you were referring to the USA.

:lol:

Why on Earth would I be referring to just the USA? Either way, blasphemy laws are still trying to be cited by various people/groups in the Western world to utilise said blasphemy laws to control what people can read, write & do. That's just as true today in the US as in the UK or anywhere else in the EU.

All religion is irrational.

To base laws on something you can't see, touch or feel & definitely can't prove ever existed is irrational.

Therefore: blasphemy & blasphemy laws are irrational.

[Red-Headed]

Nah, crucifixions are just lazy people's metaphors. If you insult someone's beliefs it shouldn't be all that surprising that they probably will not want to invite you to join them at the local pub and get some beers.

Yeah, but there is a huge difference between deffing someone out down your local because they don't agree with or believe in your own irrational belief system, & calling for them to be killed.

On 3 August 1989, while Mustafa Mahmoud Mazeh was priming a book bomb loaded with RDX explosives in a hotel in Paddington, Central London, the bomb exploded prematurely, destroying two floors of the hotel and killing Mazeh. A previously unknown Lebanese group, the Organization of the Mujahidin of Islam, said he died preparing an attack "on the apostate Rushdie". There is a shrine in Tehran's Behesht-e Zahra cemetery for Mustafa Mahmoud Mazeh that says he was "Martyred in London, 3 August 1989. The first martyr to die on a mission to kill Salman Rushdie." Mazeh's mother was invited to relocate to Iran, and the Islamic World Movement of Martyrs' Commemoration built his shrine in the cemetery that holds thousands of Iranian soldiers slain in the Iran–Iraq War.[31] During the 2006 Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy, Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah declared that "If there had been a Muslim to carry out Imam Khomeini's fatwā against the renegade Salman Rushdie, this rabble who insult our Prophet Mohammed in Denmark, Norway and France would not have dared to do so. I am sure there are millions of Muslims who are ready to give their lives to defend our prophet's honour and we have to be ready to do anything for that."[40] James Phillips of the Heritage Foundation testified before the United States Congress that a "March 1989" [sic] explosion in Britain was a Hezbollah attempt to assassinate Rushdie that failed when a bomb exploded prematurely, killing a Hezbollah activist in London. ~ Wikipedia

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Why on Earth would I be referring to just the USA?
Because we were discussing the USA. . . .

[Red-Headed]

Because we were discussing the USA. . . .

I wasn't though. AFAIK this thread is called 'Religious Texts' > Blasphemy.

[stlukesguild]

Because we were discussing the USA. . . .

I wasn't though. AFAIK this thread is called 'Religious Texts' > Blasphemy.

I guess they all credited you with greater reading skills than are warranted.

The title of the thread may be "Blasphemy" but the OP reads:

No blasphemy law has ever been overturned in the land of separation of Church and State.

What does this tell you about America?

[Red-Headed]

You seem to assume freedom is of more value than anything else, interesting.

Isn't it? Ask someone who isn't free.


Remember, Jesus was nailed to the cross because he was accussed of blaspheming in the first place!!!

Christ! There's no need to shout! There is no more historical evidence for Jesus than there is for King Arthur or Gwyn ap Nudd.


If God exists he has a great sense of humour!

Yeah, the families of the 17,440 missing in the Japanese tsunami are probably laughing themselves silly.


I think that Christianity has been given a bad light

It gave itself a bad light centuries ago.



and as you see it a way to control people.

What else is it? The belief in the unproven & unknown?


Religion has been seen to benefit certain authorities as a means of control though I do not believe this was their first intention.

Name them.


Just read the bible,

OT or NT? Just because someone wrote a few stories doesn't mean it is reality. I could equally claim that everything from the Bhagavad Gita through the Mabinogion to the 1974 Beano Annual is the absolute truth. I couldn't prove it though, & neither can any of the gospel accounts be proved.


especially the second testament, as it goes against a lot of what was deemed morally right and it went against the leaders of the jewish faith of the time.

So have a million anarchists & the like 'gone against' the particular moral straight jacket over millennia I should imagine. So what?

Blasphemy laws are to stop anyone arguing with the orthodoxy.

It is all to do with power.

[YesNo]

On 3 August 1989, while Mustafa Mahmoud Mazeh was priming a book bomb loaded with RDX explosives in a hotel in Paddington, Central London, the bomb exploded prematurely, destroying two floors of the hotel and killing Mazeh. A previously unknown Lebanese group, the Organization of the Mujahidin of Islam, said he died preparing an attack "on the apostate Rushdie". There is a shrine in Tehran's Behesht-e Zahra cemetery for Mustafa Mahmoud Mazeh that says he was "Martyred in London, 3 August 1989. The first martyr to die on a mission to kill Salman Rushdie." Mazeh's mother was invited to relocate to Iran, and the Islamic World Movement of Martyrs' Commemoration built his shrine in the cemetery that holds thousands of Iranian soldiers slain in the Iran–Iraq War.[31] During the 2006 Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy, Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah declared that "If there had been a Muslim to carry out Imam Khomeini's fatwā against the renegade Salman Rushdie, this rabble who insult our Prophet Mohammed in Denmark, Norway and France would not have dared to do so. I am sure there are millions of Muslims who are ready to give their lives to defend our prophet's honour and we have to be ready to do anything for that."[40] James Phillips of the Heritage Foundation testified before the United States Congress that a "March 1989" [sic] explosion in Britain was a Hezbollah attempt to assassinate Rushdie that failed when a bomb exploded prematurely, killing a Hezbollah activist in London. ~ Wikipedia

What amazes me about this is how one can get "martyred" now-a-days. I always thought of martyrdom as dying at someone else's hands, like getting thrown to lions or burning at the stake, but here Mazeh basically blew himself up.

It reminds me of a Jeff Dunham comedy routine with his puppet Achmed the Dead Terrorist: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB0JdVzMTIY&feature=fvst

[Panglossian]

http://drjimsthinkingshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/funny-pictures-your-cat-has-found-jesus.jpg

[G L Wilson]

Wherever it be, the charge of blasphemy is a clerical device.

[Red-Headed]

What amazes me about this is how one can get "martyred" now-a-days. I always thought of martyrdom as dying at someone else's hands, like getting thrown to lions or burning at the stake, but here Mazeh basically blew himself up.

It reminds me of a Jeff Dunham comedy routine with his puppet Achmed the Dead Terrorist: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB0JdVzMTIY&feature=fvst

That link's quite funny, in a scary kind of way!

[G L Wilson]

To paraphase Winston Churchill: "The United States can always be relied upon to do the right thing; after they have exhausted every other possibility."

[Delta40]

To paraphase Winston Churchill: "The United States can always be relied upon to do the right thing; after they have exhausted every other possibility."

lol. He said some marvellously witty things in his lifetime.

A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.

[G L Wilson]

lol. He said some marvellously witty things in his lifetime.

A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.

Truth is a winner wherein a lie loses.

[G L Wilson]

In life one deals in half-truths.

[Alexander III]

On the subject, do we not still have Blasphemy? In our society is not Political correctness the equivalent of blasphemy. I mean, denouncing god publicly in the 17th century, has the same social effect of nowadays publicly calling a black man a Nigger, or publicly telling a women in the workplace that If she doesn't show some *** there was no point in hiring her.

[G L Wilson]

On the subject, do we not still have Blasphemy? In our society is not Political correctness the equivalent of blasphemy. I mean, denouncing god publicly in the 17th century, has the same social effect of nowadays publicly calling a black man a Nigger, or publicly telling a women in the workplace that If she doesn't show some *** there was no pint in hiring her.

It is a very good analogy.