Let's Bash America!

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

What the hell is with all the America bashing lately? It's getting old. Still, there's several things I find humorous:

1. Bashing America based on these privately run forums. It doesn't seem to to matter that, even though it's been mentioned several times, that the cursing filters are so this site won't get blocked out in schools--oh, no, it's America limiting free speech! Even though America has nothing to do with these forums, at all.

2. It seems to me that the only country that gets criticized around here, or at least 90% of the time, is America.

3. The broad generalizations. Really, for people who like to claim so much about America being close-minded and all, there sure do seem to be a lot of people ready to pigeon-hole all Americans as this or that, when you really have no idea what you're talking about.

4. Insulting America be labeling it un-American. :lol:

I'm just getting sick of it. I thought America was supposed to be the pompous, arrogant one, but you sure wouldn't think that going by these forums. I'm not proud of a lot of what this country is done, but at least I'm smart enough to not to generalize whole nations based on faulty premises.

I'm sure this will be soon closed because it's political, even though no mention of politics has occurred. Come to think of it, that's something else I noticed--threads dealing with non-American politics seem to last a lot longer than others. Coincidence?

Edit: since this will be inevitably be closed, I'll post it to my blog, also.

[Delta40]

I wasn't bashing America. Look at me!

http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h411/delta40/imagesCAMWOKNR.jpg

[papayahed]

Stand in line there buddy, nothing is bashed more around here then women. Women even bash other women around here.

[Delta40]

Stand in line there buddy, nothing is bashed more around here then women. Women even bash other women around here.

That's how we're socialized. Division among women diverts our attention from equal rights.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Really? I haven't noticed the women bashing, unless you're narrowing it down to G L.

[MystyrMystyry]

America has so many nuclear bombs it could blow up the entire world (for defense)

*scary*

Australia has none (yet no-one invades)

*huh?*

[Delta40]

America has so many nuclear bombs it could blow up the entire world (for defense)

*scary*

Australia has none (yet no-one invades)

*huh?*

Well public transport here sucks see and it's a biatch to cross the Nullabor

[qimissung]

Yeah, let's not and say we did.

[stlukesguild]

Mutatis-Mutandi.... just chalk it up to penis envy.:smilewinkgrin:

[Heteronym]

Could you point out the posts in question that have lead you to start this thread? I'd love to read them, I always love a bit of healthy America bashing.

[Varenne Rodin]

I'm from America and I'm great, so....

[BienvenuJDC]

I'm from America and I'm great, so....

:banana:
LOL

[BienvenuJDC]

Really? I haven't noticed the women bashing, unless you're narrowing it down to G L.

I was thinking the same thing.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Mutatis-Mutandi.... just chalk it up to penis envy.:smilewinkgrin:
:smilielol5:

Could you point out the posts in question that have lead you to start this thread? I'd love to read them, I always love a bit of healthy America bashing.
This thread (http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63270) provided most of my inspiration. I realize a lot of it was joking, but it was annoying. It's just so hypocritical, as if other nations are without fault. And now that I look back over it's really the forums being bashed more than anything, which kind of pisses me off more. :nod: I, obviously, disagree with some of the decisions made (never been to a forum where that wasn't the case), but complaining about the filters? Please.

[Emil Miller]

:smilielol5:

This thread (http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63270) provided most of my inspiration. I realize a lot of it was joking, but it was annoying. It's just so hypocritical, as if other nations are without fault. And now that I look back over it's really the forums being bashed more than anything, which kind of pisses me off more. :nod: I, obviously, disagree with some of the decisions made (never been to a forum where that wasn't the case), but complaining about the filters? Please.

Thanks for linking that thread it was hilarious, especially when Delta 40 found out that G L Wilson was Australian. I'm still laughing.

[Lokasenna]

Meh, it's because America and various Americans are all over the television - it makes you an easy target. Barack Obama et al are always on the news, and American foreign policy is a major source of interest throughout the world, whereas almost no one has heard of Moldovan President Marian Lupu, and even fewer people care what he has to say.

Couple that with the fact that American media drenches the international entertainment sector - Americans are just rather exposed, I suppose.

We British were, I suspect, on similar footing during our Empire days. If the US suddenly tore up its constitution and demanded re-entry to the Empire, I bet within days the world would be back to Brit-bashing. The biggest target is always the easiest target, no?

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Very true, Lok.

[Emil Miller]

Meh, it's because America and various Americans are all over the television - it makes you an easy target. Barack Obama et al are always on the news, and American foreign policy is a major source of interest throughout the world, whereas almost no one has heard of Moldovan President Marian Lupu, and even fewer people care what he has to say.

Couple that with the fact that American media drenches the international entertainment sector - Americans are just rather exposed, I suppose.

We British were, I suspect, on similar footing during our Empire days. If the US suddenly tore up its constitution and demanded re-entry to the Empire, I bet within days the world would be back to Brit-bashing. The biggest target is always the easiest target, no?

Before WW1 America didn't impact on the average UK citizen because the US was looked upon as a parvenu who, despite beginning to make inroads into the British empire's economy, was regarded as the place where people, who for whatever reason, went because they couldn't make a living in their own country. A great uncle of mine went there and joined the US cavalry.
With the incursion of US troops into WW1, a residue of Americanism was left behind that included the introduction of negro music commonly known as jazz. Throughout the interwar period, the US consolidated its hold on the entertainments industry via Hollywood, and the large number of troops that came to the UK during WW11, increased American influence. At the end of WW11, the US found itself master of all it surveyed but, unfortunately, their lack of historical perspective put them in the position of a boy left in charge of the store because his parents were away. The consequences of which can all too obviously be seen in their present unenviable situation. It's time for them to move over and let an older and wiser country take the helm. If this is construed as anti-American, so be it but it isn't meant to be.

[Varenne Rodin]

Meh, it's because America and various Americans are all over the television - it makes you an easy target. Barack Obama et al are always on the news, and American foreign policy is a major source of interest throughout the world, whereas almost no one has heard of Moldovan President Marian Lupu, and even fewer people care what he has to say.

Couple that with the fact that American media drenches the international entertainment sector - Americans are just rather exposed, I suppose.

We British were, I suspect, on similar footing during our Empire days. If the US suddenly tore up its constitution and demanded re-entry to the Empire, I bet within days the world would be back to Brit-bashing. The biggest target is always the easiest target, no?

I demand re-entry to the Empire. I want English culture back. Pretty please?

[LitNetIsGreat]

Edit: oh this was for Emil and co.

Oh, Varenne, if you are very sexy you will have to see me about that later. (Just having a laugh...)

Edit, ends...

I guess you are thinking of China who are no doubt to be the next rulers, no?

Is it me or is there an increase of both Chinese and Japanese in the UK (or Sheff) at the moment? Everywhere I look I seem to see them; in bars, restaurants, libraries etc, don't get me wrong I have no problem with this at all (for, the ladies are becoming more and more attractive in mine eye) but even when the University is on holiday there seems to be a huge amount of these Asian fellows about still. Is there a coincidence in this at all?

Other than that, America/Woman bashing - I think in life you tend to see what you want to see, one way or another. I'm not saying that such things don't exist, but I find that you are more "in-tune" to the things that you are thinking about.

Me? I see alcohol and tennis courts everywhere.

You talkin' about tennis?

[stlukesguild]

Before WW1 America didn't impact on the average UK citizen because the US was looked upon as a parvenu who, despite beginning to make inroads into the British empire's economy, was regarded as the place where people, who for whatever reason, went because they couldn't make a living in their own country. A great uncle of mine went there and joined the US cavalry.
With the incursion of US troops into WW1, a residue of Americanism was left behind that included the introduction of negro music commonly known as jazz. Throughout the interwar period, the US consolidated its hold on the entertainments industry via Hollywood, and the large number of troops that came to the UK during WW11, increased American influence. At the end of WW11, the US found itself master of all it surveyed but, unfortunately, their lack of historical perspective put them in the position of a boy left in charge of the store because his parents were away. The consequences of which can all too obviously be seen in their present unenviable situation. It's time for them to move over and let an older and wiser country take the helm. If this is construed as anti-American, so be it but it isn't meant to be.

C'mon Brian. Did the Brits do all that much better when they ruled most of the world? If I recall rightly they had similar problems in Afghanistan, Palestine, and the rest of the Middle-East as well as China, India, and the American colonies. You have been living under 60 years of Pax Americana during which there has been no major war in the West and the Soviets were kept at bay by the American military and American taxpayers. Following the First World War, your wiser British and French advisers prevailed in their desire to rape and pillage Germany to such an extent as to essentially assure the Second World War. Following WWII, the "boyish" Americans spent billions in the reconstruction of Germany and Japan. One might note that it was the British and French after WWI who so divided the Eastern European nations that led to the various wars in Bosnia, Serbia, etc... But then there's Vietnam... but oh yeah... it was the French who started that little fiasco... and when the French were unable to militarily control the nation it was the British who took control of South Vietnam with the Chinese in the North. If anything, the US has not thrown its weight around any where near the extent to which it is capable. The US faces continual problems with Mexico including illegal immigration, drug and weapons smuggling, and the extreme violence led by the Mexican drug cartels that has crossed over into US soil. I can't imagine the British Empire or the Chinese, or the Roman Empire for that matter not reacting with full force. Indeed, I can't imagine they would have even thought twice.

[Delta40]

I guess that's why the US is not known as the American Empire!

[Gilliatt Gurgle]

...With the incursion of US troops into WW1, a residue of Americanism was left behind that included the introduction of negro music commonly known as jazz. Throughout the interwar period, the US consolidated its hold on the entertainments industry via Hollywood, and the large number of troops that came to the UK during WW11, increased American influence...

Emil were you one of those Brits who thought we were "Oversexed, overpaid and over here"? The GI's retort: "underpaid, undersexed and under Eisenhower". (green smilie w/ big grin)

Here's the Hag's take:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFHJ41ktt3Q&feature=related


.

[Vonny]

I demand re-entry to the Empire. I want English culture back. Pretty please?


Already taken.

[The Comedian]

Stand in line there buddy, nothing is bashed more around here then women. Women even bash other women around here.

No doubt -- the Litnet hens never stop cluckin' ;)

[Vonny]

No doubt -- the Litnet hens never stop cluckin' ;)

oh, they do, when when they realize where they they stand, or maybe I should spell that in the more eloquent manner "realise" have I got that right?

sorry, too much Canadiain Whisky!

[JuniperWoolf]

I don't bash Americans, I bash Tea Baggers, and they just so happen to be American. There's a difference.

[OrphanPip]

To be fair, I don't think Canadians have ever liked Americans much. If you pick up any random Canadian novel from the 19th century, there's a 90% chance it will contain a passage complaining about Americans.

We've actually got nicer, before the rapprochement that occurred with the world wars the relationship was outright hostile. Probably due to the multiple times you tried to invade us, and the constant military raids that occurred following the Civil War...

[papayahed]

To be fair, I don't think Canadians have ever liked Americans much. If you pick up any random Canadian novel from the 19th century, there's a 90% chance it will contain a passage complaining about Americans.

We've actually got nicer, before the rapprochement that occurred with the world wars the relationship was outright hostile. Probably due to the multiple times you tried to invade us, and the constant military raids that occurred following the Civil War...


Not to mention all the obnoxious teens that flood into Windsor every weekend for the lower drinking age. (Do they still do that??)

[Emil Miller]

Before WW1 America didn't impact on the average UK citizen because the US was looked upon as a parvenu who, despite beginning to make inroads into the British empire's economy, was regarded as the place where people, who for whatever reason, went because they couldn't make a living in their own country. A great uncle of mine went there and joined the US cavalry.
With the incursion of US troops into WW1, a residue of Americanism was left behind that included the introduction of negro music commonly known as jazz. Throughout the interwar period, the US consolidated its hold on the entertainments industry via Hollywood, and the large number of troops that came to the UK during WW11, increased American influence. At the end of WW11, the US found itself master of all it surveyed but, unfortunately, their lack of historical perspective put them in the position of a boy left in charge of the store because his parents were away. The consequences of which can all too obviously be seen in their present unenviable situation. It's time for them to move over and let an older and wiser country take the helm. If this is construed as anti-American, so be it but it isn't meant to be.

C'mon Brian. Did the Brits do all that much better when they ruled most of the world? If I recall rightly they had similar problems in Afghanistan, Palestine, and the rest of the Middle-East as well as China, India, and the American colonies. You have been living under 60 years of Pax Americana during which there has been no major war in the West and the Soviets were kept at bay by the American military and American taxpayers. Following the First World War, your wiser British and French advisers prevailed in their desire to rape and pillage Germany to such an extent as to essentially assure the Second World War. Following WWII, the "boyish" Americans spent billions in the reconstruction of Germany and Japan. One might note that it was the British and French after WWI who so divided the Eastern European nations that led to the various wars in Bosnia, Serbia, etc... But then there's Vietnam... but oh yeah... it was the French who started that little fiasco... and when the French were unable to militarily control the nation it was the British who took control of South Vietnam with the Chinese in the North. If anything, the US has not thrown its weight around any where near the extent to which it is capable. The US faces continual problems with Mexico including illegal immigration, drug and weapons smuggling, and the extreme violence led by the Mexican drug cartels that has crossed over into US soil. I can't imagine the British Empire or the Chinese, or the Roman Empire for that matter not reacting with full force. Indeed, I can't imagine they would have even thought twice.

I think disingenuous is le mot juste to apply here. Every empire since the dawn of time has had to fight wars in its occupied territories. The British Empire lasted 300 years, longer than the entire existence of the USA and, as is usual with empires, left behind extensive infrastructures.
The Pax Americana has been as much to America's advantage as to Britain or the rest of Western Europe. After all, we were your first line of defence and the US needed European markets. The creation of the cordon sanitaire from former countries belonging to the Austro Hungarian Empire was as much America's doing as Britain and France, and the USA were also paid reparations by Germany under the 1919 Treaty of Versailles.
The creation of the USSR post 1945 actually suited the USA because it allowed for the creation of the military/industrial complex which was a major spur to US prosperity. As long as the USSR was kept behind the iron curtain and China remained a sleeping giant, the US could continue to spread its influence in Europe and the Far East. Although the US was technologically superior, the USSR was its equal in nuclear weaponry which meant that America was unable to use its full strength because of (MAD) Mutual Assured Destruction: the most important word being mutual, because both systems were actually propping each other up. The Soviet Union was always going to collapse first because, as the Chinese have demonstrated, free market economies are always more effective than their alternative, but now that the USSR has keeled over, the USA, having lost its mutual support, has started to go down with it.
As for Vietnam, the French were in Indochina for 80 years whereas the US occupation of S.Vietnam barely lasted 14. The Russians played a clever game in keeping the war going through weapons supplies to N.Vietnam at a time when the USA was engaged in the space race. Wars and space travel cost huge amounts of money but the US Treasury carried on issuing bonds in the belief that their validity would never be called into question. Which brings us to today when the space shuttle programme has been abandoned and the US must use Russian spacecraft to access the space station. It has just been announced that 200 of American Airlines replacement aircraft for its ageing fleet will be purchased from France.
Who would have thought it? Except possibly the Chinese.

P.S. If the USA isn't pepared to use tactical nuclear weapons against the Mexican drug cartels, they could always send Sarah Palin and some Tea Party toughies. I'm sure they would sort it out.

[Emil Miller]

Edit: oh this was for Emil and co.

I guess you are thinking of China who are no doubt to be the next rulers, no?

Is it me or is there an increase of both Chinese and Japanese in the UK (or Sheff) at the moment? Everywhere I look I seem to see them; in bars, restaurants, libraries etc, don't get me wrong I have no problem with this at all (for, the ladies are becoming more and more attractive in mine eye) but even when the University is on holiday there seems to be a huge amount of these Asian fellows about still. Is there a coincidence in this at all?

Yes I am thinking of China as the next superpower, as are many others, but unlike their western counterparts, the Chinese think in terms of the long haul and it won't happen tomorrow but will unfold gradually over years.
I have no idea about the sudden influx of Chinese in Sheffield. Perhaps it's because, like myself, for years I never noticed them because they keep a fairly low profile, and then one day I decided to take a short cut through London's Chinatown and that was when I realised that they are a remarkable people. Alas, the days of the Japanese lotus blossom invasion are gone with the dedgrading of much of the Japanese economy although I saw a cracker today. It's been some years since London, Paris and various other European capitals were swarming with their pretty little faces but maybe they have discovered the delights of Sheffield instead.

[stlukesguild]

Brian, at you age, I would have thought you'd be a little less quick to fall for the notion that China is going to bury the US. It wasn't that long ago when it seemed as if the world was certain that the Japanese would bury us all. Unfortunately their rapid growth could not be sustained because eventually the Japanese workers wanted the same standard of living as the US and Western Europe. The subsequent generation wasn't satisfied with working like dogs for slave wages for the good of the nation. It's doubtful that the Chinese won't become equally "corrupted" and as spoiled and lazy as the West.

[Alexander III]

Yes I am thinking of China as the next superpower, as are many others, but unlike their western counterparts, the Chinese think in terms of the long haul and it won't happen tomorrow but will unfold gradually over years.
I have no idea about the sudden influx of Chinese in Sheffield. Perhaps it's because, like myself, for years I never noticed them because they keep a fairly low profile, and then one day I decided to take a short cut through London's Chinatown and that was when I realised that they are a remarkable people. Alas, the days of the Japanese lotus blossom invasion are gone with the dedgrading of much of the Japanese economy although I saw a cracker today. It's been some years since London, Paris and various other European capitals were swarming with their pretty little faces but maybe they have discovered the delights of Sheffield instead.

I really feel I aught to counter this.

Saying that China will become the next superpower has become such a reflexive and thoughtless action in the west that it has become, how everyone in England for small chat complain about the weather. The new article of senseless small chat is the line "China will be the next superpower.

There are two major reasons that China won't become the next superpower.

1) The grand majority of all goods produced in china are exported, there is very little internal economic movement. The people in China are not the poor peasant folks of western imagination, but they are still nothing compared to the average Westerner in terms of individual wealth. Someone on another thread said that there are 450 million mobile phones in china. Which is a staggering number. But on second thought that means only 1/5 people in china have a mobile phone, compare that to the west's 5/5 or at the very least 4/5. (Considering the amount of westerners who own multiple phones, it may even be higher)

So the problem is, most all of what is made in china is sold to the west. If the west is rich and prosperous, china remain prosperous. If the west begins to suffer economically and less and less money is spent, China becomes poorer and ends up worst with a huge amount of manpower and nowhere to use it. China's economy is totally dependent upon that of America and Europe, to become a super power it would need to be the other way round, and there is no shot of that for a long time to come.

2) A couple years back, I had a good friend who was the son of a noted chinese communist general. I took a 3 week trip round China with him and his family, and for the most part I saw the life of the wealthy chinese circles. But, also vicariously through them and also trough my own explorations I came to understand the majority of the chinese people. I know this isn't PC of me, but they are for the most part: poor, ignorant and useless without someone instructing them. Of course this has nothing to do with terms of the chinese race, this is purely the product of an education system or rather Lack of one which results in your average chinese rural man (majority of population) to be on the same level as a 19th century european farmer.

In The west we complain about our ignorant people (e.g america hillbillies, Italian terroni, Big Brother esque people ect.) But they have all risen in situation of relative wealth and with a good education which in china is completely missing. So when such a large part of ones nation is so underdeveloped and uncared for, it doesn't matter how rich the government or a few elites are, the country cannot arise to the station of superpower. (You may be tempted to say USSR, but it was a superpower for less than 40 years which in terms of empire is less than a wink, and also the USSR were a superpower simply due to military might, not due to economic strength as we assume a modern superpower shall be.)

Of course there are people on this Forum who have been in China for more than 3 weeks and they may counter my argument and call me an idiot for my observations, but I merely say what I saw.





Also in terms of bashing the Americans, I think Lokasena put is very accurately. You guys are in the spotlight, for better and worse.


Also at risk of worsening the situation, you guys do set yourself up for a lot of comedy gold due to typical American stereotypes - for example

http://weighdownsouth.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/exercise-demotivational-poster.jpg


http://media.fakeposters.com/results/2009/08/10/kgwcf448v3.jpg


If you didn't laugh...you must be a ginger

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

I like the pancake and sausage on a stick, sans chocolate chips. It's good. :nod:

[Emil Miller]

Brian, at you age, I would have thought you'd be a little less quick to fall for the notion that China is going to bury the US. It wasn't that long ago when it seemed as if the world was certain that the Japanese would bury us all. Unfortunately their rapid growth could not be sustained because eventually the Japanese workers wanted the same standard of living as the US and Western Europe. The subsequent generation wasn't satisfied with working like dogs for slave wages for the good of the nation. It's doubtful that the Chinese won't become equally "corrupted" and as spoiled and lazy as the West.

There was never any question that Japan would "bury the US", although there was a possibility that they might have superceded it economically, but they overreached themselves in the attempt and suffered a banking collapse and a similar fate to that which the US is now facing. Comparing the Japanese to the Chinese is like comparing chalk to cheese. A Japanese businessman once remarked : "I have met many foreigners in my travels but none so strange as the Chinese."
For historical and geographical reasons, there is a great difference between both peoples. Despite the introduction of a written language by Chinese Buddhist monks, much as Orthodox Greek monks introduced the Cyrillic alphabet to Russia, the Japanese still regard themselves as a chosen race, notwithstanding the superficial Americanisation that has been foisted on them since 1945. It is important to remember that all consideration of the USA in relation to the rest of the World must, of necessity, be set against its relative youthfulness as compared to the antiquity of civilisations that have preceded it. The world has much to be grateful for in respect of American advances in medicine and other scientific discoveries but will live in regret of what it could have achieved had it not been so full of itself.


IOf course there are people on this Forum who have been in China for more than 3 weeks and they may counter my argument and call me an idiot for my observations, but I merely say what I saw.

Yes, I am one of those people but I don't call you an idiot, I merely say that you are mistaken, not in your observations, because I am a firm believer in personal experience over those, oh so manipulative statistics, but from your deductions

[ralfyman]

Total U.S. debt is around $57 trillion, with banks exposed to over $370 trillion in unregulated derivatives. Around 70 pct of the economy is based on consumer spending, with the same percentage working in the service industry. The country has gone through four decades of trade deficits and has to borrow and spend heavily to prop up the economy. This is possible through rigged credit ratings (e.g., the same credit rating agencies that give high marks to the U.S. also gave high marks to investment packages that led to the 2008 crash) and military power, of which around 40 pct requires foreign lending and is passed on to unwitting citizens. The main drivers of the government deficit are Bush-era tax cuts and war costs.

Problems for the U.S. began in 1970 when oil production started dropping, prompting the need to create more credit and borrow heavily to get more oil (and later, cheap goods and labor) from other countries. After that was 1981, when deregulation and tax cuts led to increasing government debt, financial speculation, and increasing borrowing and spending by all sectors: government, households, and corporations.

Thus, the U.S. economy is very much a house of cards, with much of its wealth consisting of numbers in bank accounts and controlled by only a tenth of the national population. The rest were fed with high wages and easy credit needed to purchase a middle class lifestyle. Hence, we have a country with less than 5 pct of the world's population requiring a quarter of world oil production, almost half of it needed to power up more than a third of the world's passenger vehicles. Meanwhile, exporting countries are counting on the U.S. to continue borrowing and spending so that they can earn more dollars and do their own consumer spending. All that is taking place in a global economy which is also a house of cards, with over one quadrillion dollars in total money supply, much of it consisting of unregulated derivatives.

Had Wall Street bankers and citizens eager to buy and sell houses in order to retire early not been so greedy, the dog and pony show would have continued for many more years. Of course, that will not matter given problems like peak oil (i.e., global oil production has remained relatively flat since 2006 while oil discoveries peaked in 1964, with increasing energy demand now met with biofuels, which in turn is contributing to high food prices, with production set to drop soon, just as it did for U.S. oil production in 1970), and that problem--a resource crunch--coupled with long-term effects of pollution (including environmental damage and climate change) will make current concerns look like a walk in the park.

[papayahed]

No discussion of current politics.