Pages

[Red-Headed]

Pages of poems
words & letters on paper -
emptying from hearts.

[everyadventure]

And?

I don't think this "poem" is finished...

[Twota]

Is that a Haiku? ;D

[Red-Headed]

And?

I don't think this "poem" is finished...

This has to be quote of the day! :goof:

It's a haiku. Any longer ... & it wouldn't be.

See my blog. (http://www.online-literature.com/forums/blog.php?b=8358)

[Red-Headed]

Is that a Haiku? ;D

Thank you, yes. :thumbsup:

[everyadventure]

Oops. :leaving:

[Red-Headed]

A summer downpour
flowering umbrellas -
glistening toadstools.

[Red-Headed]

Oops. :leaving:

There has been an ongoing debate about the possible differences between haiku & senryu for quite a while.

I just call all 17 (5/7/5 lines) syllable poems 'haiku' these days. It makes things bloody easier LOL!

Of course, you can link haiku (sort of). (http://www.online-literature.com/forums/blog.php?b=11832)

[hillwalker]

It's only really a haiku if you count 'poems' as bi-syllabic and 'emptying' as tri-syllabic. Some might not.

Your second example is definitely missing one syllable in the middle line (possibly two if 'flowering' is considered bi-syllabic).
What fun!

H

[Red-Headed]

It's only really a haiku if you count 'poems' as bi-syllabic and 'emptying' as tri-syllabic. Some might not.

Some might. It must be my Black Country accent.

Haiku (haiki?) are originally Japanese anyway & Japanese as a language uses far more than syllable counts, in the composition of haiku or senryu, compared to speakers of other languages, particularly Aryan Indo-European tongues.

Many Asiatic languages as a whole have far more pronounced morae, which in some Asiatic languages also determines stress or timing in their phonetic structure, so to quibble about syllable (whether the onset, nucleus or coda parts) counts in this context, (Haiku in English) is essentially a bit meaningless.


Your second example is definitely missing one syllable in the middle line (possibly two if 'flowering' is considered bi-syllabic).
What fun!

No it isn't. To me, anyway, 'umbrellas' has four distinct syllabic sounds & I would pronounce it as something like "um-ba-rell-erz". Although I would be tempted to call the labial 'ba' a mora as it is for me, essentially a partially sounded labial 'b' preceding a schwa (notwithstanding that the initial schwa in the word is the 'U') & which then re-emphasises the postalveolar consonant 'ell' in the plural noun umbrellas.

Also 'flowering' has three distinct syllables to my Midlands ears. In fact, words like 'road', 'toad' & 'load' can have two syllables in Midland English. Well, if it was good enough for Shakespeare (a fellow Midlander) it's good enough for me LOL!

I wonder if the Japanese have as many debates about what constitutes a haiku as English speakers do?

[Bar22do]

Whether haiku or not, I see the image; it works for me.

[Red-Headed]

Whether haiku or not, I see the image; it works for me.

Thanks, that's what really counts. I love a lot of haiku translations. Obviously they are not still seventeen syllables, but it's the imagery they convey that is what makes them so memorable.

Here are a few of my favourites from The Penguin Book of Zen Poetry:

Skylark
sings all day,
and day not long enough.

Girl cat,
so thin
on barley and love.

Fish shop -
how cold the lips
of the salted bream.

Basho

In the boat,
crescent moon's light
in my lap.

Taigi

Tonight you too
are rushed,
autumn moon.

Farmer,
pointing the way
with a radish.


Issa

Woman -
how hot the skin
she covers.

Lady Sute-Jo

[Varenne Rodin]

I enjoyed it. I barely have time for non-haiku literature anyway.

[Red-Headed]

I enjoyed it. I barely have time for non-haiku literature anyway.

Thanks, that's the other great thing about haiku ... they're short!