Rhyme

[G L Wilson]

Does rhyme sound false to the modern ear?

[Alexander III]

A bad or mediocre poem with rhyme will sound ridiculous, a good poem with rhyme wont. I have yet to find a Shelley, Keats or Byron which sounds ridiculous due to the rhyme.

I know I am simplifying the whole question, but in essence I think that is the answer.

[G L Wilson]

A bad or mediocre poem with rhyme will sound ridiculous, a good poem with rhyme wont. I have yet to find a Shelley, Keats or Byron which sounds ridiculous due to the rhyme.

I know I am simplifying the whole question, but in essence I think that is the answer.

Shelley, Keats and Byron can get away with it, a modern poet cannot.

[AuntShecky]

Outside of what we consider "literary" poetry, the modern ear not only tolerates rhyme but actually expects it. Try recording a popular song without rhyming lyrics and see how far you get (for that matter, you can forget about a purely "instrumental" song without any lyrics at all.)

When was the last time you heard a rap tune that didn't
rhyme?

Advertising jingles and slogans --the lifeblood of the economy of the Western world-more often than not use rhyme in their jingles, even though the marketing claims might not be 100% "true."

So I must disagree with the position that the "modern ear" considers rhyme to be "false."

From a literary standpoint, many esteemed contemporary poets continue to use rhyme; as Miller Williams says, rhyme is just one of the tools in the writer's toolbox.

The trick is to use rhyme intelligently; that is, by avoiding making the line serve the rhyme rather than the other way around, that the rhythm and meter are not sacrificed in order to make the end-rhyme "fit," by avoiding "wrenching," and other cardinal sins of prosody. '

By all means, rhyme can be appropriate when it adds rather than detracts from the overall effect of the verse.

[G L Wilson]

When was the last time you heard a rap tune that didn't rhyme?

When did you last hear a rap song that didn't have ridiculous lyrics?

[Alexander III]

Like I said before, a good modern poet can. I am not well read on contemporary literature, but examples off the top of my mind are: Pier Paolo Pasolini and Richard Wilbur. And I also believe Yves Bonnefoy uses rhyme.

So yea, it's just a stylistic choice; much like free verse. With free verse it is much the same, it requires a technique and that is what makes it sound ridiculous or good.

[YesNo]

I agree with AuntShecky. The modern ear does not consider rhyme to be false, but rhyme must contribute to the meaning of the poem.

Often when I see rhyme that is not done well (to my ear), the real problem is with the meter or the message. Fix these and the rhyme becomes acceptable.

[G L Wilson]

Rhyme is not a technique, it is a force of habit.

[Hopfrog]

The question got me to lug out The Oxford Book of American Poetry. I am a champion of rhyme, and find excellent examples of it in this wonderful anthology. I love rhyme schemes such as may be found in "Round" by Weldon Kees:
Flaps like a worn-out blind. Cezanne
Would break out in the quiet streets of Aix
And shout, "Le monde, c'est terrible!" Royal
Cortissoz is dead. And something inside my head
Flaps like a worn-out blind. The soil
In which the ferns are dying needs more Vigoro.
There is no twilight on the moon, no mist or rain,
No hail or snow, no life. Here in this house

and so on. The anthology gives an interesting portrait of rhyme in American verse. It often dictates the voice of American sonnet, so it seems. One of my favourite American poets is Claude McKay, and he uses rhyme always. W. H. Auden (strange to think of him as an American poet) brings rhyme into "In Memory of W. B. Yeats."

I love rhyme and cannot write a sonnet without it. Perhaps my over-fondness of rhyme is one reason why I pen more sonnets than any other kind of verse.

[G L Wilson]

The question got me to lug out The Oxford Book of American Poetry. I am a champion of rhyme, and find excellent examples of it in this wonderful anthology. I love rhyme schemes such as may be found in "Round" by Weldon Kees:
Flaps like a worn-out blind. Cezanne
Would break out in the quiet streets of Aix
And shout, "Le monde, c'est terrible!" Royal
Cortissoz is dead. And something inside my head
Flaps like a worn-out blind. The soil
In which the ferns are dying needs more Vigoro.
There is no twilight on the moon, no mist or rain,
No hail or snow, no life. Here in this house

and so on. The anthology gives an interesting portrait of rhyme in American verse. It often dictates the voice of American sonnet, so it seems. One of my favourite American poets is Claude McKay, and he uses rhyme always. W. H. Auden (strange to think of him as an American poet) brings rhyme into "In Memory of W. B. Yeats."

I love rhyme and cannot write a sonnet without it. Perhaps my over-fondness of rhyme is one reason why I pen more sonnets than any other kind of verse.

Pray a sonnet,
why not just buy your love a bonnet?

[Alexander III]

Rhyme is not a technique, it is a force of habit.

No, its not.

[G L Wilson]

No, its not.

It's an addiction then. Rhyme should only be approved of in humourous verse. Then, I will grant the status of technique to it. But before then I'd stick to crossword puzzles if you can't get a grip on yourself.

[Alexander III]

It's an addiction then.

Speaking of addictions whats up with the all the short and ineffectually comments, which sound for the most part like a child awkwardly voicing his view in a debate amongst adults.

[Alexander III]

A dam you edited your comment, mine makes less sense now; you crafty fellow.

[G L Wilson]

A dam you edited your comment, mine makes less sense now; you crafty fellow.

I'm sorry, Alexander III. I was bound to stuff someone up with an edit one of these days. But I tend to think fast and ask questions later, that's my style, not much of a style granted but a style.

[Alexander III]

I'm sorry, Alexander III. I was bound to stuff someone up with an edit one of these days. But I tend to think fast and ask questions later, that's my style, not much of a style granted but a style.

You rebel you, thinking before you ask questions. Who would have ever thought of such a thing.

[stlukesguild]

Rhyme is simply one aspect of music of poetry. Some poets use it well. Others do not. To suggest that rhyme is outdated in poetry is an absurd as to suggest that color is outdated in painting. There are any number of Modern/Contemporary poets who use rhyme to great effect.

[G L Wilson]

Rhyme is simply one aspect of music of poetry. Some poets use it well. Others do not. To suggest that rhyme is outdated in poetry is an absurd as to suggest that color is outdated in painting. There are any number of Modern/Contemporary poets who use rhyme to great effect.

Rhyme is only for children.

[kittypaws]

a sing song rhyme is the best...not only for children but those who long to live the longest. It is not about the rhyme but what the spirit takes from it.

kittypaws

[G L Wilson]

a sing song rhyme is the best...not only for children but those who long to live the longest. It is not about the rhyme but what the spirit takes from it.

kittypaws

I love music for all its nonsense. As Orwell confessed, he missed a certain musicality. To write for children would be a great privilege, unfortunately I haven't the magic.

[kittypaws]

G.L. ~ never say never! Everyone has a touch of magic. :)

kittypaws

[Delta40]

I think there is a time and a place for rhyme. Ogden Nash is a good example.

[G L Wilson]

Ogden Nash is a great find. Thank you.

[stlukesguild]

Rhyme is only for children.

Once again trolling...:rolleyes:

[G L Wilson]

Rhyme is only for children.

Once again trolling...:rolleyes:

It is a sincere belief. Dryden is an example of the disaster that becomes an adult writer who indulges in rhyming couplets to the detriment of art and seriousness.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Rhyme is only for children.

Once again trolling...:rolleyes:
:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

[G L Wilson]

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

Okay, you agree; now go away. I am not going to do a Russell Crowe and apologise for me personally calling Jews 'bloody savages'. I have no Jewish friends to suck up to. I have said worst things about the Japanese and no-one complained. Christ, you would think that it was a vendatta on my part to insult the Jewish people. Nothing could be further from the truth. Okay, I don't like The Nanny - crucify me!

[Alexander III]

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

I have a feeling that GL will go the same way as prickly pete, they all vanish as soon as they realize that while in school they may have been big fish in a small pond but in the real world they are small fish in a big pond. There are the types of people who accept that with humility, and there are those like Pete and I think GL who will just run back to their small pond so they can return to being a big fish.

[aruncroll]

I say that if it rhymes, then there should be a good reason why it rhymes, and if it doesn't rhyme, then there should be a good reason why it doesn't rhyme. If the rhyme scheme of the piece is arbitrary and can't be accounted for (except by conformity to the habits of the poet's peers) then a critical reader would have a good reason to judge it a mediocre piece.

[Red-Headed]

Personally, I find rhyme a bit clichéd. It can work, but I think that poetry has moved on from the Victorians & their turgidity (thank god) although most people don't seem to fully appreciate this. Most Anglo-Saxon poetry didn't rhyme, probably due to the sheer amount of odd inflectives in the language at the time. Some languages are more amenable to rhyming anyway, Japanese & Italian have a plethora of substantives ending with vowels.

There has been a debate raging for quite a while about what actually constitutes 'poetry' anyway, & I am not so sure it is that easily defined, or in fact that easily separated from 'prose'.

Of course, it all depends on what you mean by rhyme exactly: masculine or feminine, monorhyme, triple rhyme, double-end, multi-rhyme, internal, leonine, eye rhyme, rime riche, pararhyme, assonance, broken rhyme, grotesque, synthetic, pruned rhyme, first-word rhyme, back-track, rhyme disguised as prose, tumbling, free verse or other?