Publishing

[tonywalt]

Has anyone published online/print and, for lack of a better way of putting it, been profitable with the venture?

I know this has probably been discussed previously, but given the dyanamic nature of online publishing it may be good to have a fresh look.

Tony

[Syd A]

Not I, but you may find this woman's (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/01/self-published-author-amada-hocking_n_829906.html) story inspiring.

[Drkshadow03]

Depends. Do you mean self-publishing? Or do you mean publishing say short stories in online magazine with legitimate publishers/editors? Or publishing a novel with a small-press publisher as an ebook? Generally self-publishing isn't respectable. However, there are exceptions to this rule, like the success story Syd A linked to above and if your an established writer doing a minor project that wouldn't be of interest to your mainstream publishers, etc.

Essentially the rule of thumb is money should flow to the writer, not the other way around (money flowing to the publisher/vanity press from the writer to get published).

[tonywalt]

Depends. Do you mean self-publishing? Or do you mean publishing say short stories in online magazine with legitimate publishers/editors? Or publishing a novel with a small-press publisher as an ebook? Generally self-publishing isn't respectable. However, there are exceptions to this rule, like the success story Syd A linked to above and if your an established writer doing a minor project that wouldn't be of interest to your mainstream publishers, etc.

Essentially the rule of thumb is money should flow to the writer, not the other way around (money flowing to the publisher/vanity press from the writer to get published).


Thanks, when you say isn't respectable, you mean less profitable? Or do you mean it is frowned on by certain people?

I think your rule of thumb is a good rule of flow for just about everything. My revenues should flow to me as much as possible.:cheers2:

[Drkshadow03]

Thanks, when you say isn't respectable, you mean less profitable? Or do you mean it is frowned on by certain people?

I think your rule of thumb is a good rule of flow for just about everything. My revenues should flow to me as much as possible.:cheers2:

I mean most professional writers, editors, and reviewers frown upon it since ANYONE can do it as long as they are willing to part with the cash, no matter how good or bad their work. So basically the issue is there are no standards when it comes to self-publishing. Most people self-publish because they want to be able to say they're a real genuine writer to their friends and family, and to impress strangers at parties. Or they have some delusion that they will make lots of money. Or they have tried the traditional root and are sick of being rejected. Most real writers with real publishing credits (which means an editor actually paid to purchase their story/novel/poem), don't take self-publishing credits seriously, for the most part.

I am not saying self-publishing is always bad. The biggest issue are vanity presses. There are more legitimate and less legitimate self-publishing venture. If you self-published with Amazon and make millions of dollars on your book, I'm sure many writers, reviewers, and traditional publishers will take you more seriously. However, that rarely happens. And all self-publishing has the stigma of circumventing the editorial vetting process to some extent.

[PeterL]

If you do mean self-publishing, then you might be making mistake. While a small percentage of the electronically published books are worthwhile, and maybe five percent later get picked up by publishers, most of that material is worse than the worst of what get published. Before you go that way I think that you should try to find a publisher. Lack of interest from the first hundred queries might make you think about what might be wrong with the manuscript and encourage you to improve it to the point where it will be accepted by a publisher.

[tonywalt]

Anyone have a success story? Even a small one...

[Drkshadow03]

Anyone have a success story? Even a small one...

Well, there is the one Syd A linked to in reply to your OP. If you have confidence in your writing why don't you send it off to an agent to shop it around to publishers?

[Emil Miller]

Well, there is the one Syd A linked to in reply to your OP. If you have confidence in your writing why don't you send it off to an agent to shop it around to publishers?

The problem is that agents are inundated with requests from people for their books to be taken on and they reject them out of hand. A glance at the masses of rubbish lining the bookshelves of the major outlets will tell you that many of them fall within the category of 'chick lit'. As someone who has had dealings with agents I can tell you that, in the UK at least, many agencies are run by women and there is a preponderance of women working for them. Many of the most famous writers were rejected time and again by agents before someone took them on. In the age of the word processor there are vast numbers of books being written and obviously most of them will be unusable. Virtually the only way a serious writer gets published is through personal connections with the publishing world. That's why many famous novelists have been newspaper reporters early in their career.
As for making money from writing, the lion's share of each published book goes to the publisher and very few are able to make a living as a writer.

[Drkshadow03]

The problem is that agents are inundated with requests from people for their books to be taken on and they reject them out of hand. A glance at the masses of rubbish lining the bookshelves of the major outlets will tell you that many of them fall within the category of 'chick lit'. As someone who has had dealings with agents I can tell you that, in the UK at least, many agencies are run by women and there is a preponderance of women working for them. Many of the most famous writers were rejected time and again by agents before someone took them on. In the age of the word processor there are vast numbers of books being written and obviously most of them will be unusable. Virtually the only way a serious writer gets published is through personal connections with the publishing world. That's why many famous novelists have been newspaper reporters early in their career.
As for making money from writing, the lion's share of each published book goes to the publisher and very few are able to make a living as a writer.

I think there is a bit of truth to this. But then again, your comments about having personal connections in the publishing world is true of most careers; it always helps to have personal connections in any career field one might choose. Nevertheless, it's perfectly possible to create your own connections.

Many writers, serious or otherwise, have begun their careers by focusing on short stories, making sales to reputable short fiction markets in their chosen area of fiction, creating buzz about their short fiction (hopefully for being good), and then getting nominated for short fiction awards and selected for "Best of" anthologies.

Another route to go is to submit your novel to respected small-press publishers that don't require an agent. Sell your novel to them, get a contract, and then once you have a contract bring on board an agent to deal with clauses in the contract, and then the agent will usually continue to represent your subsequent work.

[tonywalt]

I thought, and still think, that there are a few people on this forum that have made a few bucks(for fun yea?) online publishing.

My thoughts on big traditional publishers. I think they will last for a generation or so, as there is still and incredible amount of people who read books in print form. And there is a generation or two that are captive to print format.

But the inevitable is clear. As for the future, there is no one that can convince me that books will not go straight from author to the online distibutor, whether it be Amazon or whomever. Editors and graphics people will still have a place.

It will be a slow turn becuase of the almost inherent traditional nature of readers (including myself, as I collect books) but it will shift.

Again, just wondering if anyone has been successful, even modestly? Someone, anyone?

[libernaut]

If you want to make money writing you could submit to paying magazines. If you just want to get your name out there and have something published you could submit to free zines and get something in print so you could have a resume of sorts and eventually get into something paying. There are a lot of publishers that will accept your manuscript if you have one. There are a lot of resources on how you go about sending a manuscript and individual publishers tend to have individual requirements. Some want the whole m.s. others just want a sample, etc. Good luck.

[tonywalt]

If you want to make money writing you could submit to paying magazines. If you just want to get your name out there and have something published you could submit to free zines and get something in print so you could have a resume of sorts and eventually get into something paying. There are a lot of publishers that will accept your manuscript if you have one. There are a lot of resources on how you go about sending a manuscript and individual publishers tend to have individual requirements. Some want the whole m.s. others just want a sample, etc. Good luck.

Thanks alot libernaut. Do you have some names? I looked on the internet and it's just a mountain of informtion.

[dwdean]

yeah some names would be great, im trying to become published as well

[PeterL]

There is a searchable database of agents at:
http://www.agentquery.com/
And you can search the website of the Association of Author Representatives (AAR):
http://aaronline.org/

There are a few other searchable sites, but those are a good start. When you find an agent who might be interested, it's a good idea to look at the site of the agency involved to see what the agent has sold and what the query submission guidelines are.

[The Atheist]

Has anyone published online/print and, for lack of a better way of putting it, been profitable with the venture?

I know this has probably been discussed previously, but given the dyanamic nature of online publishing it may be good to have a fresh look.

Tony

You've picked a very good point here, and I think the shift from corner bookstores to Amazon is the indicator. I agree with you that e-books will be the ultimate winner, as well.

The question you're asking is, can you make money out of publishing your own stuff online?

The answer is easy: yes. Doing it is extraordinarily hard and takes just as much time as getting into a fulltime writing career on paper. You just do it back to front.

Since the only thing that matters is getting your work before a paying audience, you need to be able to attract people to a blog. There are a few people out there who have turned their ability to write into a valid career simply by writing on the internet.

I don't know how many have become successful authors through that, but simple maths and economics tells me that if you have a huge audience captivated by your writing, it can't be too much of a trick to get them to buy a book. After that, if the book's good enough, they'll come back for more, and you have a huge w-o-m sales force to do the business for you.

Even a blog isn't essential, I don't think. Because the internet is so vast, it is simply about getting numbers of visitors to a website, and while Amazon has advantages, there are other ways of attracting people that can give you an audience of thousands/hundreds of thousands.

Unfortunately, 90,000,000 other people are already trying to do this,






on 8.3 billion websites.

[tonywalt]

[QUOTE=The Atheist;1053534]You've picked a very good point here, and I think the shift from corner bookstores to Amazon is the indicator. I agree with you that e-books will be the ultimate winner, as well.

The question you're asking is, can you make money out of publishing your own stuff online?

The answer is easy: yes. Doing it is extraordinarily hard and takes just as much time as getting into a fulltime writing career on paper. You just do it back to front.

Since the only thing that matters is getting your work before a paying audience, you need to be able to attract people to a blog. There are a few people out there who have turned their ability to write into a valid career simply by writing on the internet.

I don't know how many have become successful authors through that, but simple maths and economics tells me that if you have a huge audience captivated by your writing, it can't be too much of a trick to get them to buy a book. After that, if the book's good enough, they'll come back for more, and you have a huge w-o-m sales force to do the business for you.

Even a blog isn't essential, I don't think. Because the internet is so vast, it is simply about getting numbers of visitors to a website, and while Amazon has advantages, there are other ways of attracting people that can give you an audience of thousands/hundreds of thousands.

Unfortunately, 90,000,000 other people are already trying to do this,


Well said. I think you sort of described exactly where the profession is at this moment and how it has changed.

[LitNetIsGreat]

Having read around this subject quite a bit I have come to the conclusion that there is virtually zero chance of making decent money from writing, online or otherwise. You can make a little in drips and drabs, but it's a lottery ticket to make it pay well. Forget it. Sorry, but this is the truth.

Possibly one of the best chances going is the writer's room via the BBC as they will read unsolicitied scripts for radio plays and so forth. But even so the odds are way too long to take seriously. Best not give up the day job sort of thing. Never mind.

[libernaut]

Personally, I don't write for money. I write to write. But there are plenty of writers, usually with credentials, that do make money doing it. You might look into a local newspaper or the likes. Sometimes there are openings. Also, magazines. I guess you'd start by looking into a human resources department of the company that owns the paper, or magazine. And if that doesn't exists try a cover letter with a resume. As far as online goes, i don't really know of much but I'm sure they're out there.

[Drkshadow03]

I thought, and still think, that there are a few people on this forum that have made a few bucks(for fun yea?) online publishing.

My thoughts on big traditional publishers. I think they will last for a generation or so, as there is still and incredible amount of people who read books in print form. And there is a generation or two that are captive to print format.

But the inevitable is clear. As for the future, there is no one that can convince me that books will not go straight from author to the online distibutor, whether it be Amazon or whomever. Editors and graphics people will still have a place.

It will be a slow turn becuase of the almost inherent traditional nature of readers (including myself, as I collect books) but it will shift.

Again, just wondering if anyone has been successful, even modestly? Someone, anyone?

I think the issue here is your conflating self-publishing and internet/online publishing. Two different things entirely. After all, you can self-publish in print format, not just online. I could go to a Print-on-Demand or a Vanity Press and self-publish a physical book.

Likewise, here is an online short story 'zine (http://clarkesworldmagazine.com/) that pays 10 cents word (which is really good, especially for speculative fiction). You have to submit to an editor who decides whether they like your story enough to buy it and then if they do you sign a contract, and they publish it online on their website. It's all online, but it's not self-published. An editor/publisher is selecting your story to be published in an online format. There are also publishers that specialize in ebooks. Not to mention many big traditional publishers release books as both print and ebooks. None of this constitutes self-publishing because you're still going through the editorial process and being selected by an editor.

[tonywalt]

Smashwords seems to be a good website. Anyone tried that route?