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thebagman
07-12-2011, 11:44 PM
I found an article that I thought was interesting.

http://atheism.about.com/b/2007/07/31/comment-of-the-week-morality-of-believing-in-a-vengeful-god.htm


Christians frequently try to portray their god as a loving, benevolent god, but this ignores the long history of Christian theology which includes a great deal about their god being wrathful, vengeful, and downright violent. Christians have generally just accepted this on the assumption that it's wrong to "judge" their god — whatever it does must necessarily be moral, right?

Secular atheists are not so constrained and can more easily point out just how immoral or indecent such a god is. A more interesting issue, though, may be how belief in such an immoral god influences the morality of the believers. When grossly immoral and indecent behavior is accepted as a matter of course, or even as an example of just behavior, how can believers themselves uphold minimal standards of morality and decency in their own lives?

George writes about religious leaders who deliver positive portrayals of their god delivering vengeance to even innocent people:

What strikes me about what the Bishop says is his careless feeling for a person's life. I imagine that his constituents feel that on a face to face he is caring but I think it is obvious that he cares little for an innocent life taken away miles from some "moral crime" God is displeased about. (And how is it the God of the Bible cannot think Capitalism to be a most egregious sin but one in which his followers so delight?)

As a nonbeliever I find life to be infinitely precious no matter who it is who may have life and am offended if some god capriciously takes that innocent life for no other reason than a grudge. The Bishop defends the morally indefensible and becomes immoral himself.

I don't see how he can't see he turns his own religion completely upside down.

Perhaps there is something wrong with the cognitive organization of his religion.


If a religious believer thinks that it would be moral and unjust for their god to cause your death not for some "sin" of yours, but because of the "sins" of neighbors — or perhaps of people hundreds of miles away — would you be able to maintain the belief that this person is moral? Would you continue to trust this person very far? Would you entrust the safety of your children to them?

I don't think I could and I would in fact go a bit further: I'm not sure I would trust such a person never to feel justified in enforcing the will of their god on their own. If they think it's just and good for you as an innocent person to die, then of course it would be just and good for you to die if you aren't innocent. Once that inference is accepted, how much of a leap is it to for someone to think that they could be the instrument of their god's vengeance on sinners?

What do you think?

G L Wilson
07-13-2011, 04:06 AM
I think that God is a nice old fella who is very misunderstood.

thebagman
07-13-2011, 09:17 AM
What about the devil?

G L Wilson
07-13-2011, 01:57 PM
What about the devil?

What about the Devil?

If there is a God, He has nothing to do with the Devil.

thebagman
07-13-2011, 09:56 PM
No but is the devil misunderstood?

G L Wilson
07-13-2011, 10:09 PM
No but is the devil misunderstood?

Hmmm, yes.

But if there is a God, He has nothing to do with religion.

thebagman
07-13-2011, 10:20 PM
How do you mean?

G L Wilson
07-13-2011, 10:29 PM
The Old and New Testaments differ as to the status of Satan. I am with the Old Testament, that he is an obstacle on the path to godliness merely, that he is actually a servant of God, that he is simply a nosey bureaucrat if you like, he is presently nothing more.

G L Wilson
07-15-2011, 12:12 AM
There is nothing more stupid than an atheist talking as if God and the Devil were actually real.

Dr.reid_16
07-15-2011, 01:00 AM
True that Wilson :p

libernaut
07-15-2011, 01:54 AM
If you actually read the old testament there are several numerous passages where the requirement for the "sin" is to put the person to death. i'd say that's against the ten commandments. so it kind of goes against their own morality in a way.

G L Wilson
07-15-2011, 03:01 AM
If you actually read the old testament there are several numerous passages where the requirement for the "sin" is to put the person to death. i'd say that's against the ten commandments. so it kind of goes against their own morality in a way.

Don't tell me that the Bible is contradictory, I couldn't cope.

The Atheist
07-15-2011, 03:03 PM
What do you think?

Stock standard informed atheist writing a short piece which will be ignored by those it seeks to inform and praised by those who agree with it.

;)

In terms of criticism, I'd merely say that the link between religious fervour and extreme behaviour is probably a little overdone. It's nothing new. My guess is that it's symptomatic of the writer living in USA, where, as an atheist, he/she is marginalised as a member of the most-disliked group in the country.

G L Wilson
07-15-2011, 09:10 PM
Leviticus 19: 17
Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

Many mistake themselves for God: atonement comes in many more ways than one.