The Californians Talk of Harlem

[IceM]

With disapproving smirks and narrow brows,
the Californians spoke of Harlem:
of how the sidewalks, in summer heat,
smelled of body sweat, cigarette smoke
and traces of freshly made lemonade:
of little black kids, basketball and
the intercity interlude the mix
of chainlink nets and youthful laughter form.

They mocked the ragged buildings, for awhile
forgetting they too lived in shambles.

With tightened lips they spoke of New York,
how the apple wasn't big enough for all
to take a bite.

"They have no milk and honey."
They laughed with pride and writhed with shame.

With hungry stomachs, they went to bed,
dreaming of the bites they never could take.

[munkinhead]

This is very good brother.

[Jack of Hearts]

Why you little...

You're forgiven, but only because of artistic merit.






J

[hillwalker]

As a trans-Atlantic observer I read this as a sly dig at the 'Great American Dream' and 'Go West, Young Man' sloganeering that suggested West was best.

We all start from somewhere - in most cases somewhere a lot worse than where we are now - and you do a great job of reminding us of our humble beginnings.

You're also a closet New Yorker, obviously...

H

[tailor STATELY]

Well done. (I prefer the left coast.)

Le'see "Talk" in present tense, all else in past tense. Must have been a band trip.

The closest this native Californian gets to talking or thinking about Harlem is rooting for the Yankees. (Think I'll wiki Harlem to see what's up.)

Ta ! (short for tarradiddle),
tailor STATELY

[qimissung]

I very much enjoyed the juxtaposition of California and New York, the Californians belief in their land of milk and honey and going to bed hungry.

[IceM]

Thank you all for reading! As a native Californian, I was writing this poem as a criticism of my relatives. One of them is leaving to New York City for two weeks, and the harsh cynicism and scorn they had for New York City, especially the roughened areas of Harlem and the Bronx, was disgusting. I went two years ago and loved everything about the city. My relatives didn't share the same appreciation.

I'm not a closet New Yorker, I love California. But the scorn some Californians outside of my family have for New York City makes me wonder if they speak out of jealousy, for they are unable to experience the thrill and wonder of "The City."

Thank you all for reading and enjoying!

[Jerrybaldy]

Hello IceM. As a Brit, Harlem and the Bronx are the stuff of movies, but I am not surprised that within the States there is a snobbery, for that I am sure is universal. More important was your imagery which reminded me of a place I have never been.

particularly this:


of how the sidewalks, in summer heat,
smelled of body sweat, cigarette smoke
and traces of freshly made lemonade:


cheers
JB

[Bar22do]

Thank you all for reading! As a native Californian, I was writing this poem as a criticism of my relatives. One of them is leaving to New York City for two weeks, and the harsh cynicism and scorn they had for New York City, especially the roughened areas of Harlem and the Bronx, was disgusting. I went two years ago and loved everything about the city. My relatives didn't share the same appreciation.

I'm not a closet New Yorker, I love California. But the scorn some Californians outside of my family have for New York City makes me wonder if they speak out of jealousy, for they are unable to experience the thrill and wonder of "The City."

Thank you all for reading and enjoying!

It's probably out of helpless jealousy, and your poem reflect it very beautifully.

[AuntShecky]

Technically, this piece works quite well, notably the metaphor of the "apple" (a nickname for NYC)--"not big enough to take a bite." There is an echo of this metaphor in the last line, as well, which serves to keep the focus tight.

Other than that, I think -- mind you merely "think"-- I'm somewhat disturbed by the subject matter. When I first read this piece the other day, it bothered me all the rest of the day and evening. I'll tell you why:

First, that some may find offensive elements in a piece of literature should not matter in the least. In fact I spent weeks ranting about that very opinion in this essay (http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59356).

Secondly, I realize that the disdain toward the youngsters in Harlem comes not from the speaker nor the author but some generic "Californians," who, as the piece makes a point of stating, are in the same economic boat. Even though most readers would know that the Californians are not from Brentwood or Malibu, but it would help, I should think, if a more specific locale had been mentioned, such as naming the struggling neighborhood in south LA, for instance.

Still. Still. Still--

Despite standing behind every word I said in "Railing at Greatness," and despite what is to be assumed are the best intentions of the author of this particular piece, absolute dangers loom whenever anyone wades into the treacherous waters of stereotypes and condescension.

I'm not saying that the descriptions in this piece can't actually be found in Harlem, but they can also be found nearly every place else. For instance, the "stale cigarette smoke" isn't a symptom of the destitute alone; the affluent in Connecticut and Westchester counties inhaled more than their share--or are you unfamiliar with the short stories of John Cheever? "Body sweat?"--I'm sure that most of the locker rooms of the tonier men's clubs in Manhattanare redolent of it. And "basketball"? Check out any college campus, especially in the Midwest.

So as you see, I don't see the "Californians" in your piece as having an accurate idea of Harlem. For a more complete picture of that historic locale, read the works of the poet who wrote this (http://www.blessedwithlove.com/poem/sweet-brown-harlem-girl) or the novels of Paule Marshall, who wrote about similar neighborhoods in Brooklyn, or listen to the music which became our native American art form, at least in part, by the contributions of Harlem artists from the Cotton Club and the Apollo Theatre. And if that's not enough culture for you, look up the modern dance groups originating in Harlem, as well as the famous Boys' Choir.

Not to mention what the people in that community are doing for themselves, taking the initiative of improving
questionable schools into their own hands, with the help of others such as Geoffrey Canada. That the community is by no means ready to be "written off" was underscored by the fact that ,among all the places in this entire country, a former U.S. President chose to have his office right there in Harlem.

That's why the subject of your poem disturbed me. As I said, I am by no means interested in what is "politically correct."

But I am interested in the truth.

[Hawkman]

Hi IceM,

I rather liked this poem but I would recommend rephrasing this:

"of little black kids, basketball and
the intercity interlude the mix
of chainlink nets and youthful laughter make."

The sense is lost here as both punctuation and declentions of interlude and make are at odds and give an impression of inverted syntax. It's awkwardly constructed. I'd try not to leave make at the end of the line.

Best, H

[IceM]

Technically, this piece works quite well, notably the metaphor of the "apple" (a nickname for NYC)--"not big enough to take a bite." There is an echo of this metaphor in the last line, as well, which serves to keep the focus tight.

Other than that, I think -- mind you merely "think"-- I'm somewhat disturbed by the subject matter. When I first read this piece the other day, it bothered me all the rest of the day and evening. I'll tell you why:

First, that some may find offensive elements in a piece of literature should not matter in the least. In fact I spent weeks ranting about that very opinion in this essay (http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59356).

Secondly, I realize that the disdain toward the youngsters in Harlem comes not from the speaker nor the author but some generic "Californians," who, as the piece makes a point of stating, are in the same economic boat. Even though most readers would know that the Californians are not from Brentwood or Malibu, but it would help, I should think, if a more specific locale had been mentioned, such as naming the struggling neighborhood in south LA, for instance.

Still. Still. Still--

Despite standing behind every word I said in "Railing at Greatness," and despite what is to be assumed are the best intentions of the author of this particular piece, absolute dangers loom whenever anyone wades into the treacherous waters of stereotypes and condescension.

I'm not saying that the descriptions in this piece can't actually be found in Harlem, but they can also be found nearly every place else. For instance, the "stale cigarette smoke" isn't a symptom of the destitute alone; the affluent in Connecticut and Westchester counties inhaled more than their share--or are you unfamiliar with the short stories of John Cheever? "Body sweat?"--I'm sure that most of the locker rooms of the tonier men's clubs in Manhattanare redolent of it. And "basketball"? Check out any college campus, especially in the Midwest.

So as you see, I don't see the "Californians" in your piece as having an accurate idea of Harlem. For a more complete picture of that historic locale, read the works of the poet who wrote this (http://www.blessedwithlove.com/poem/sweet-brown-harlem-girl) or the novels of Paule Marshall, who wrote about similar neighborhoods in Brooklyn, or listen to the music which became our native American art form, at least in part, by the contributions of Harlem artists from the Cotton Club and the Apollo Theatre. And if that's not enough culture for you, look up the modern dance groups originating in Harlem, as well as the famous Boys' Choir.

Not to mention what the people in that community are doing for themselves, taking the initiative of improving
questionable schools into their own hands, with the help of others such as Geoffrey Canada. That the community is by no means ready to be "written off" was underscored by the fact that ,among all the places in this entire country, a former U.S. President chose to have his office right there in Harlem.

That's why the subject of your poem disturbed me. As I said, I am by no means interested in what is "politically correct."

But I am interested in the truth.

For a couple weeks, I ruminated on this. Here's all I'll say as a response.

My poem, as I know you know, is about presenting a jealous image of Harlem through the eyes of the jealous Californians. The jealousy through the subject creates the generalizations. When spiteful of something, one may have tendencies to resort to base, erroneous generalizations that seek to diminish the importance of something. I know Harlem is a major cultural symbol, but the jealousy of the speaker creates the generalizations; and through these generalizations, the poem could not operate. I know they're inaccurate, yet it is through these faults that the poem portrays a jealous picture.

I will not claim that the misguided image of Harlem and subsequent readings were by design. My intention was to portray jealousy, and if this reading of the poem comes through the design created by the jealousy, I will accept it as is. Thank you for your review Shecky!