Dentistry - Facts and Fictions

[Musicology]

THE MYTH OF SUGAR CAUSING TOOTH DECAY

'We all know' eating too much sugar causes........ tooth decay. Right ? Your dentist tells you so, and he learned this as a student, and the dentist who taught his teacher said so also. And toothpaste manufacturers have told you so. So it must be so. Right ?

Well, in point of fact there is NO such thing as tooth decay. That's right ! There is no such thing as tooth decay.

Now, just a minute ! By tooth decay you mean the decay of the enamel on teeth, don't you ?

Let's consider the facts. Have you considered the indisputable fact that there are thousands of human skeletons (many of them over 5,000 years old) whose teeth have somehow not decayed ? Where the enamel of the teeth is still intact, that is ? Although they have definitely been exposed to bacteria and viruses in all kinds of conditions, sometimes for millenia. How about that fact ? Whose teeth have not decayed, that is. Any comment ?

The second fact is as follows. Teeth enamel (and this requires you to check it for yourself) contains ZERO carbon. So viruses and bacteria (which are both needed to cause any teeth decay) are never an issue. How about that ?

Neither of which facts have stopped a mountain of dental journals and commercial ads refering to tooth decay as being named in the literature. Its even got a name. It's called 'Streptococcic Mutans'. With expert authors all certain bacteria are consuming the enamel of teeth. Right ?

What IS teeth enamel ? Well, it actually has a chemical name. It's Calcium Hydroxy Phosphate. Better known as 'Apatite'. But dentists still believe bacteria are consumers of teeth enamel. Strange, right ? I mean, they are interested in facts, aren't they ? And so are you.

Here is another fact. Nothing in the human diet will cause the decay of teeth enamel. Fact ! Sugars do NOT cause tooth decay. Fact.

Glad we sorted that out ! It's amazing what we learn on this forum.

[stlukesguild]

Amazing! An expert on Mozart, the Illuminati, the Jesuits, Shakespeare, Goethe, the Moon-landing, Elvis, 9-11, the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster... and now dentistry. What's next?

Its like a web-based version of Foucault's Pendulum.

:out:

[Musicology]

How unfortunate that you have refered to the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Since I have never posted on that fiction. Have I ?

As for the myths of dentistry, we look forward to your contribution.



Amazing! An expert on Mozart, the Illuminati, the Jesuits, Shakespeare, Goethe, the Moon-landing, Elvis, 9-11, the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster... and now dentistry. What's next?

Its like a web-based version of Foucault's Pendulum.

:out:

[Alexander III]

So you don't brush your teeth? That may explain a lot...

[Musicology]

It explains rather more of the true state of your knowledge (or lack of it) on sugar and teeth decay (so-called).


So you don't brush your teeth? That may explain a lot...


It explains rather more of the true state of your knowledge (or lack of it) on sugar and teeth decay (so-called).

:nopity:

[Propter W.]

Musicology, what's the point of all these threads?

You provide no evidence and you claim all evidence that supports the other side is somehow false, manufactured or concocted, for which you also don't give any evidence or proof.

It puts the people on this forum in a very difficult position. On top of that, you insult people.

I'm afraid you won't get many responses until you change your way of presenting a case and debating.

Good luck to you, scribbler.

[Musicology]

Propter W,

Can you provide evidence too much sugar produces teeth decay ? No evidence was in your post. Why don't you ask a dentist and come back to tell us what evidence he provides ?

With over a century of toothpaste ads, dental journals and other information we certainly hope to see some. Surely that's not too much to ask, is it ? Maybe you can give us some evidence ? That will be progress.

I have already presented simple facts in my first post. And you have produced, er, none in reply. All you say is I have posted no facts !! That's simply not true, is it ? It's untrue. Isn't it ? Here is my first post again. I have underlined the facts presented so far. I have said for example that teeth enamel contains no carbon. And that teeth have survived without being destroyed though they are from burials several thousands of years old. These ARE facts. Aren't they ?

That is the current situation. Isn't it ? So, please, provide evidence the enamel of teeth is destroyed by eating too much sugar. Do you have any ? Any at all ? Let's see some hard evidence. Thank You.

///

'We all know' eating too much sugar causes........ tooth decay. Right ? Your dentist tells you so, and he learned this as a student, and the dentist who taught his teacher said so also. And toothpaste manufacturers have told you so. So it must be so. Right ?

Well, in point of fact there is NO such thing as tooth decay. That's right ! There is no such thing as tooth decay.

Now, just a minute ! By tooth decay you mean the decay of the enamel on teeth, don't you ?

Let's consider the facts. Have you considered the indisputable fact that there are thousands of human skeletons (many of them over 5,000 years old) whose teeth have somehow not decayed ? Where the enamel of the teeth is still intact, that is ? Although they have definitely been exposed to bacteria and viruses in all kinds of conditions, sometimes for millenia. How about that fact ? Whose teeth have not decayed, that is. Any comment ?

The second fact is as follows. Teeth enamel (and this requires you to check it for yourself) contains ZERO carbon. So viruses and bacteria (which are both needed to cause any teeth decay) are never an issue. How about that ?

Neither of which facts have stopped a mountain of dental journals and commercial ads refering to tooth decay as being named in the literature. Its even got a name. It's called 'Streptococcic Mutans'. With expert authors all certain bacteria are consuming the enamel of teeth. Right ?

What IS teeth enamel ? Well, it actually has a chemical name. It's Calcium Hydroxy Phosphate. Better known as 'Apatite'. But dentists still believe bacteria are consumers of teeth enamel. Strange, right ? I mean, they are interested in facts, aren't they ? And so are you.

Here is another fact. Nothing in the human diet will cause the decay of teeth enamel. Fact ! Sugars do NOT cause tooth decay. Fact.

Glad we sorted that out ! It's amazing what we learn on this forum, isn't it ?

///



Musicology, what's the point of all these threads?

You provide no evidence and you claim all evidence that supports the other side is somehow false, manufactured or concocted, for which you also don't give any evidence or proof.

It puts the people on this forum in a very difficult position. On top of that, you insult people.

I'm afraid you won't get many responses until you change your way of presenting a case and debating.

Good luck to you, scribbler.

[LitNetIsGreat]

Crackers cause tooth decay, as do nuts, also bananas are pretty bad as well, as well as fruitcake. However, according to the NHS website, which is just one of many, foods high in sugar are, amazingly, also a contributory factor see:

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Dental-decay/Pages/Causes.aspx

You should avoid sugary drinks, sweets, chocolate and ensure that you brush your teeth well at least twice a day, paying particular attention to those hard to reach ones at the back. I also recommend a good tooth brush, mouthwash and regular dentist check-ups at least once every 6-12 months, then you should be fine.

(Incidentally, Coke Cola and Chewits were not invented in the Palaeolithic era which might help account for the lack of sugar in the early stone age diet...)

Regards.

[Vonny]

Coke -- it's not the sugar so much as the acids. It destroys teeth. My friend is a dental hygienist who observes this daily.

Oh my goodness, Neely you forgot the floss!! Don't forget the floss, that's as important as brushing. This is the best 2 to 5 minutes a day that you ever spent!

[OrphanPip]

Acids in foods and acids produced by Streptococcus mutans are the major contributors. Sugar promotes the growth of bacteria and contributes indirectly to tooth decay.

[MarkBastable]

Moderators - come on. Surely this has to stop.

[Gilliatt Gurgle]

...Can you provide evidence too much sugar produces teeth decay ? No evidence was in your post. Why don't you ask a dentist and come back to tell us what evidence he provides ?

With over a century of toothpaste ads, dental journals and other information we certainly hope to see some. Surely that's not too much to ask, is it ? Maybe you can give us some evidence ? That will be progress

...Nothing in the human diet will cause the decay of teeth enamel.
...it's amazing what we learn on this forum, isn't it?



Interesting points you make Robert. I must admit that I agree with you,
“Four out of five dentists surveyed recommend chewing sugarless gum for their patients who chew gum” . That quote comes from the famous Trident chewing gum commercials that ran ad nauseam here in the states to the point that the 4 out 5 line became cliché.
Here’s an example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gf_Jk1zLisg

Obviously the insinuation being that sugar was causing tooth decay. For decades Americans have often wondered what became of the fifth dentist and their recommendation.
Well interestingly enough, I know the answer to this question and the cause in the rise of tooth decay over the past 60 years or so. I spoke to my neighbor Mr. Roderick Surleeng, the former Boeing Aircraft engineer about tooth decay. Mr. Surleeng’s credentials are well established, you may recall his contributions to the chemtrail thread. The five dentists were just one cog in SAG’s well-oiled machine bent on dehumanizing the Earth through the application of “Agent White”. As you know agent white distribution began with the advent of pressurized aircraft capable of reaching higher altitudes say above 25,000 ft. By the mid 1950’s a crack team of five dentists noticed a marked increase in tooth decay. They also identified traces of Aluminum Anhydrous Tetra Chloride on their patients’ teeth. It was soon determined that the settling of agent white dust on crops and livestock was being consumed “chewed” by the unsuspecting masses. SAG began funneling hush money to the five dentists, who by this time began working for Trident. As it turned out, the fifth dentist had a conscience. He was prepared to blow the whistle, but never had the opportunity. A couple of men in black tossed him in the back of a black AMC Pacer next to Jimmy Hoffa, never to be seen again.



.

[Musicology]

Gilliat Gurgle,

The dental industry would never lie to you. For decades. Nor would the makers of toothpaste. They would never recommend fluroide toothpaste, for example. Would they ? Or how about metallic fillings ? Speaking of toothpaste, this from Jim Lynn -

If you haven't read the back of your toothpaste labels recently, you are in for shock. On my desk in front of me is a tube of Kids Crest, billed as a "Sodium FLUORIDE Anticavity Toothpaste." Straight forward enough except for one thing...it has a new WARNING LABEL on the back that reads;

"WARNINGS: Keep out of reach of children under 6 years of age. If you accidentally swallow more than used for brushing, seek PROFESSIONAL HELP or contact a POISON CONTROL center immediately."

If the words "professional help" and "poison control center" don't grab your attention you really should not be reading this post. Since mid-1997, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) in the USA has mandated all toothpastes containing FLUORIDE to carry this warning. And for good reason.

An overwhelming, growing body of evidence, plus old WWII secret government documents now available all point to FLUORIDE as being a toxic drug. One that is NOT FIT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION. (1) Even the FDA has finally raised an eyebrow !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Significant enough to mandate this warning be included on labeling. The mandate is significant because it means the FDA now regards fluoride laden toothpaste as a potential toxic drug!

The percentage of fluoride cannot be above 1000 ppm for adult and 500 ppm for children. The Crest "Kid's" formula contains 0.15% w/v fluoride ion. (2) So how is that legally possible? It's obvious that some products are deliberately targetted for small children ...the same group of kids the WARNING LABEL is pointing to.

If the formulation contains fluoride ion higher than 1000 ppm, it can cause poisoning; and the fluoride ion can react with calcium ion and magnesium in the human body and cause low level calcium ion and magnesium ion in blood. In some cases it has caused heart and muscle problems. If a child were to take a big spoonful of this fluoride and get it down, it is a poison that could kill the child. That is why the government has finally decided to act on this long standing issue regarding fluoridation.

Of course, many communities have fluoridated their drinking water for many years now, supposedly to fight tooth decay. But, John R. Lee, M.D. a fluoride toxicity researcher since 1972, has exposed this as a myth. He further states the myth has been perpetuated via "clever propaganda." He believes adding fluoride to water supplies was a contrivance to dispose of waste byproducts from the fertilizer and aluminum industries. There is a large volume of evidence to support his belief. (3)

Dr. Lee has established a direct link between fluoride use, osteoporosis and increased incidence of hip fractures in his report, ''A Brief Account of the Fluoridation And Hip Fracture Problem''.

Today a growing number of doctors and researchers are expressing concern over public exposure to the chemical, which has led some cities to vote against water contamination with fluoridation. Jonathon Wright, M.D., medical researcher of the Tahoma Clinic in Kent Washington says that, "When folks are fully informed (about fluoride), they usually turn it down." (4)

Even so, fluoridation of water and toothpaste continues to be endorsed by various health officials and the American Dental Association (ADA). You love the dental industry, don't you ? The same dental industry that was giving metal fillings decades after they were banned in most countries.

How much fluoride are you ingesting? There's no way to know if you are ingesting over the recommended levels or not. Even if you don't use a fluoride toothpaste or routinely drink water from a source that is fluoridated, you still may be ingesting unknown levels of fluoride. Many commercial sodas, juices and other water-based food products may contain fluoride if they are produced where the water is fluoridated.

As for toothpaste, I recommend you use a proven formula of natural ingredients, free of harmful chemicals. (see what EOO's disclaimer above says about chemicals and drugs)

Back to Sugar. It's definitely NOT the cause of tooth decay.

In fact, and this is more certain, the toxins consumed by us go into our bloodstream. Right ? (Stop and think about this if you are not sure). And the inside of the tooth (its pulp) contains a nerve. Right ? The blood supply goes there too and it has to get rid of toxins. Of all kinds. From within. Including through these teeth nerves. Toxins in blood is a major cause of the destruction of teeth, from within. Yes indeed.

You don't use your teeth when you drink soft drinks, do you ? Do you use your feet to eat spaghetti ? That should give you a clue that any toxins from soft drinks or other foods get in to the bloodstream and their effects damage the teeth over time if any bad food is consumed - because the blood supply also goes to those nerves in the teeth pulp. So the damage to the teeth occurs from the inside out. Wow !! Yes Sir.

Glad we sorted that out !

Common Sense 1
The Dental Industry 0

Will Mark Bastable stop posting on threads when he has no contribution to make on its subject ? It has to stop.

This thread is on 'Dentistry - Facts and Fictions'.

Thank You


Moderators - come on. Surely this has to stop.

[Patrick_Bateman]

Bacterium don't 'consume' tooth enamel. The acid they produce when they feast on starch and sugars is what erodes enamel.

[Musicology]

Yes, plus the other gruesome ingredients that give taste to many soft drinks. That goes through the blood system. Inside teeth, in fact. I completely agree that acids attack enamel.

[OrphanPip]

You need to consume over 2g of sodium fluoride to get signs of acute poisoning.

Getting out my tube of Colgate Total toothpaste, the 130 ml tube contains 0.243 w/w sodium fluoride. Unfortunately, label laws are retarded so I'm provided with a concentration based on mass but only given the volume of the toothpaste. So, I don't have a proper scale for this but from hefting the tube I'd say it is less than 500g. In which case if you ate the entire tube you would consume 1.215g of sodium fluoride. It probably wouldn't be good for you, but it wouldn't approach poisoning levels. It could potentially poison a small child. The lesson from this isn't that fluoride in our toothpaste is killing us, but that we shouldn't allow children to eat entire tubes of adult toothpaste. There's a reason they make children's toothpastes with lower concentrations of fluoride.

(Note that I was very liberal with my figures, the toothpaste is likely only around 200g, so a child probably wouldn't even get that sick from eating the entire thing, however children do occasionally get poisoned by eating large amounts of toothpaste)

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Absurdity of the thread's premise notwithstanding, I have come to the conclusion that approximately 90% of dentists are money-grubbing charlatans.

[wessexgirl]

Moderators - come on. Surely this has to stop.


My thoughts exactly Mark. It seems Music has some sort of charmed life though. He can insult members ad nauseum and troll to his heart's content, but he seems to be teflon coated.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Naw, let him stay. He makes things fun.

[Vonny]

I think this is a valuable thread. My teeth are one of my most valuable possessions, maybe the most valuable.

I agree M-M. I basically equate them in terms of integrity with used car salesmen, although my dentist is absolutely wonderful.

Another point I'll add is, don't bite your nails. It chips teeth something awful.

It's important that we question things. An example that men might not relate to: Older women used to be routinely encouraged to take "hormone replacement therapy" after menopause. Just about every doctor (and every magazine) would tell almost every menopausal woman she needed to take these drugs to prevent osteoporosis, heart attack and stroke, and numerous other conditions. All of the data proved that this medication was absolutely necessary. My grandmother encountered this as she went from doctor to doctor, but something in her "gut" told her not to take this medication. One doctor even said to her in a condescending way, "Well, we all have our idiosyncrasies," because she refused the drugs, which he thought was irresponsible of her.

Well all of the sudden, one day, a few years ago, the medical profession did a complete reversal of this recommendation of HRT. They discovered that the drugs actually increased the risk of all of the conditions it was supposed to prevent, (except for osteoporosis.) Plus, HRT greatly increases the risk of breast cancer. When doctors began to wean women off the HRT, breast cancer rates began to decline.

So all of the professional opinions, all of the research and data -- was wrong.

If you grind your teeth when you sleep, as I do, wear a "night guard." I'm not sure what it's called actually. But grinding your teeth - very bad.

[Calidore]

Musicology: You've got a few numbers in your post #13 that look like footnotes or references, but they don't lead to anything. Did you omit those by mistake?

Re. fluoride levels. You're not supposed to swallow toothpaste, but rinse it out. Also, by way of example, Chicago's water fluoridation is only 2 ppm.

It's been mentioned above that bacteria don't directly cause tooth decay; rather, it's the acids they produce when consuming sugars and starches. The ancient skeletons you refer to lived in a time without junk food. Life was much harder, but they ate much healthier, when they ate.

Re. Teeth decaying from the inside. I'm not sure how that would happen. The blood is confined to the pulp; it doesn't feed the enamel. The pulp doesn't dissolve, thank goodness, or the rest of our soft tissues would as well. Anything we ate that did that would kill us long before it actually happened.

Vonny: What in the hell are your fingernails made of? Or are you talking about metal carpentry nails, in which case I agree completely.

[Vonny]

Vonny: What in the hell are your fingernails made of? Or are you talking about metal carpentry nails, in which case I agree completely.

:lol:

I don't bite my nails. My brother has bitten his nails for as long as I can remember. He had perfect teeth, (well, he does once again with the help of some bonding), apart from this erosion, but one day he was in the dentist's chair, and after the dentist looked in his mouth he picked up his hand to check for nail biting, and sure enough, it was there. So dentists certainly know this.

I have a girl friend with the same problem, beautiful teeth that she is eroding away.

I don't think it has to do with the fingernails altogether. What happens is that your teeth continually grit together when you naw fingernails day after day.

A very destructive habit.

[Calidore]

I bit my nails as a kid, but I was cured of the habit by my braces, which got in the way. By the time I got them off, the urge had evaporated.

[TheFifthElement]

Let's consider the facts. Have you considered the indisputable fact that there are thousands of human skeletons (many of them over 5,000 years old) whose teeth have somehow not decayed ? Where the enamel of the teeth is still intact, that is ? Although they have definitely been exposed to bacteria and viruses in all kinds of conditions, sometimes for millenia. How about that fact ? Whose teeth have not decayed, that is. Any comment ?

Comment coming up.

Unfortunately that 'indisputable fact' is in considerable dispute. Please show us your sources which evidence a lack of tooth decay in ancient skeletons. You will also need to demonstrate that the lack of tooth decay arose without any interventionist tooth care, as according to the sources which you can read below, dentistry and tooth care has been in existence since at least 7000BC.

Sources below.


The most common diseases to be seen in the human skeleton are tooth decay and periodontal disease, closely followed by osteoarthritis.
http://www.spoilheap.co.uk/hsrspec.htm


The Indus Valley Civilization has yielded evidence of dentistry being practiced as far back as 7000 BC


Ancient Greek scholars Hippocrates and Aristotle wrote about dentistry, including the eruption pattern of teeth, treating decayed teeth and gum disease, extracting teeth with forceps, and using wires to stabilize loose teeth and fractured jaws

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dentistry#History


As a waypoint on the ancient Silk Road, the metropolis of Palmyra had it all, broad towers, impressive temples and enviable trade. Water from local wells even contained fluoride, limiting that scourge of the ancients — tooth decay.
http://www2.fluoridealert.org/Alert/United-States/National/An-ancient-city-s-tale-of-too-much-fluoride


Scientists believe she died in her early 30s and that an infection from periodontal disease probably got into her blood stream.
http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/the-scene/events/Secrets-of-Ancient-Mummy-88921447.html



The find predates the previous earliest-known example of tooth decay by some 200 million years, and also represents the oldest-known infection in a terrestrial vertebrate...

It seems that in animals without the continuous replacement of teeth, oral infections caused by bacteria - which had long since evolved to take up residence in reptiles' mouths - were likely to get worse, rather than be pushed out along with old teeth.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-13131533

So tooth decay has been an issue for some time and there is a considerably body of evidence supporting the existence of tooth decay in ancient skeletons. That being said, I do think that genetics and individual experience can come into play in susceptibility to tooth decay.

For example, my brother-in-law didn't brush his teeth for 7 years (brushing made him gag and was therefore pointless - throw up is probably worse for your teeth than sugar) and didn't develop any decay in that period. You'll all be glad to hear he has mastered his gag reflex now, but to be fair he didn't have smelly breath either.

I have strong teeth and tend not to be prone to decay. My sister, however, suffered a nasty injury as a child and that injury affected her teeth. She, consequently, is much more prone to tooth decay. My husband also is more prone to tooth decay, as his teeth were damaged following a fall which damaged his 'baby' teeth. My mother-in-law has lost a number of adult teeth due to them falling out during pregnancy.

My daughter's enamel didn't form properly on her teeth because I suffered an infection whilst she was gestating (at around 5-6 months) and consequently she needs to take greater care of her teeth, as she will be prone to decay.

Crisps (potato chips) and nuts are considered to be worse for your teeth than sugary snacks, as they hang around in the mouth longer and give the bacteria more time to create acids and cause damage to the teeth. Juices high in natural acids, such as orange juice, are also considered more damaging, although the affects of this can be reduced by drinking through a straw.

[Musicology]

Fifth Element,

I am happy to provide lots of evidence for teeth decay having survived for thousands of years. Completely contradicting the view that those teeth have been destroyed in that time. Often over thousands of years. There are thousands of evidences teeth have survived intact for millenia. So let's not waste time going round in circles. These teeth have survived. Fact. Testifying to the fact that teeth enamel is not corrupted over time. So the cause of teeth being corroded is definitely not due to external causes.

Now, will you provide, from all of modern dentistry, proof (rather than rhetoric) that too much sugar causes teeth enamel to be destroyed. Let me repeat this obvious fact. Soft drinks do not require us to use our teeth to consume them. Right ? I have asked this question already and we still have no answer. Although 'too much sugar cases teeth enamel to be destroyed' is taught by dentists in their own journals and is taught as advertising by makers of toothpaste. Isn't it ? Almost everyone believes it. And it's nonsense.

The consumer of soft drinks does NOT use his/her teeth to consume those soft drinks. Do they ? Please answer this question. So, again, what is evidence 'too much sugar' is the cause of teeth corrosion ? When it is not. Something else causes it. And that 'something' must be working internally, within the blood supply, (which is of course carried to the pulp and nerves WITHIN the teeth). Thus, the idea of external damage to the enamel of teeth by 'too much sugar' is a fiction. The cause is internal.

These are basic questions. Furthermore, teeth enamel contains ZERO carbon. They do not corrode from sugar. Fact.

So, let us have evidence to the contrary. Do you have any ? Why is this so hard to answer if it is true ? And if you do not know why is this being widely taught ?

While we are waiting for your answer from the dental industry here is one of thousands of cases of ancient teeth in excellent condition -

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=41751


Comment coming up.

Unfortunately that 'indisputable fact' is in considerable dispute. Please show us your sources which evidence a lack of tooth decay in ancient skeletons. You will also need to demonstrate that the lack of tooth decay arose without any interventionist tooth care, as according to the sources which you can read below, dentistry and tooth care has been in existence since at least 7000BC.

Sources below.


http://www.spoilheap.co.uk/hsrspec.htm





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dentistry#History


http://www2.fluoridealert.org/Alert/United-States/National/An-ancient-city-s-tale-of-too-much-fluoride


http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/the-scene/events/Secrets-of-Ancient-Mummy-88921447.html



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-13131533

So tooth decay has been an issue for some time and there is a considerably body of evidence supporting the existence of tooth decay in ancient skeletons. That being said, I do think that genetics and individual experience can come into play in susceptibility to tooth decay.

For example, my brother-in-law didn't brush his teeth for 7 years (brushing made him gag and was therefore pointless - throw up is probably worse for your teeth than sugar) and didn't develop any decay in that period. You'll all be glad to hear he has mastered his gag reflex now, but to be fair he didn't have smelly breath either.

I have strong teeth and tend not to be prone to decay. My sister, however, suffered a nasty injury as a child and that injury affected her teeth. She, consequently, is much more prone to tooth decay. My husband also is more prone to tooth decay, as his teeth were damaged following a fall which damaged his 'baby' teeth. My mother-in-law has lost a number of adult teeth due to them falling out during pregnancy.

My daughter's enamel didn't form properly on her teeth because I suffered an infection whilst she was gestating (at around 5-6 months) and consequently she needs to take greater care of her teeth, as she will be prone to decay.

Crisps (potato chips) and nuts are considered to be worse for your teeth than sugary snacks, as they hang around in the mouth longer and give the bacteria more time to create acids and cause damage to the teeth. Juices high in natural acids, such as orange juice, are also considered more damaging, although the affects of this can be reduced by drinking through a straw.

[LitNetIsGreat]

Looks like another "conspiracy" busted (the great Colgate Conspiracy). Next one please...or not.

[Musicology]

If people are crazy enough to consume quantities of poisons in their toothpaste (even when there are warnings on the packet of the toxidity of that toothpaste) then fluroide (a poison) has dumbed down the entire toothpaste consuming generation. And other additives. Not a conspiracy. It's there in plain sight. It's a fact.

Please provide evidence from dentistry that 'too much sugar' destroys teeth enamel. When soft drinks do not even require us to have teeth to consume them. No answer. Once again. It's fiction. There is no such evidence.



Looks like another "conspiracy" busted (the great Colgate Conspiracy). Next one please...or not.

[Musicology]

Let's face it. If people are dumb enough to use toothpaste laced with poisons and want to drink lots of soft drinks they don't need to think about what they are actually consuming. In such a case they can blame it all on 'too much sugar'. Which 'everyone knows' consumes the teeth. The dental industry will keep telling you this till the cows come home. They would never lie to you.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/pro-life-groups-call-for-pepsi-boycott-over-aborted-fetal-cell-lines/

[Emil Miller]

The sub-title to this thread, namely THE MYTH OF SUGAR CAUSING TOOTH DECAY, has every contributor in agreement and that acids are the real cause of the problem.
So, Sociology has managed to get complete agreement on his proposition.
Is this a record?

[Musicology]

That's great Emil Miller.

Your mission, should you accept it, is to tell the dental industry and the toothpaste manufacturers (who are taught wrongly) that 'too much sugar' does not destroy teeth. What they are teaching is hogwash. Teeth enamel is NOT affected by 'too much sugar'. Is it ? And many sets of teeth have survived thousands of years. So the link between soft drink consumption and teeth destruction is the chemicals that are inside many soft drinks which go into the blood stream. And which the body naturally tries to get rid of through the inside of the tooth - where there are nerves and where blood flows. The chemicals in soft drinks are unknown to most soft drinks consumers. Although the poisons in their own toothpaste are just as dangerous to their health. But they use them anyway.

Which prompts me to repeat this -

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/pro-life-groups-call-for-pepsi-boycott-over-aborted-fetal-cell-lines/

Soft drinks are excellent for cleaning lavatories. They are not excellent for human consumption.

I am so glad we seem to agree on this.



The sub-title to this thread, namely THE MYTH OF SUGAR CAUSING TOOTH DECAY, has every contributor in agreement and that acids are the real cause of the problem.
So, Sociology has managed to get complete agreement on his proposition.
Is this a record?

Eugenics is the new food industry.


You need to consume over 2g of sodium fluoride to get signs of acute poisoning.

Getting out my tube of Colgate Total toothpaste, the 130 ml tube contains 0.243 w/w sodium fluoride. Unfortunately, label laws are retarded so I'm provided with a concentration based on mass but only given the volume of the toothpaste. So, I don't have a proper scale for this but from hefting the tube I'd say it is less than 500g. In which case if you ate the entire tube you would consume 1.215g of sodium fluoride. It probably wouldn't be good for you, but it wouldn't approach poisoning levels. It could potentially poison a small child. The lesson from this isn't that fluoride in our toothpaste is killing us, but that we shouldn't allow children to eat entire tubes of adult toothpaste. There's a reason they make children's toothpastes with lower concentrations of fluoride.

(Note that I was very liberal with my figures, the toothpaste is likely only around 200g, so a child probably wouldn't even get that sick from eating the entire thing, however children do occasionally get poisoned by eating large amounts of toothpaste)

[TheFifthElement]

I am happy to provide lots of evidence for teeth decay having survived for thousands of years.
Go on then. I'm more than happy to review your 'lots of' evidence.

I see you've posted one link in which the 'scientist' states in relation to the perfect teeth "She would have had a perfect smile - it really is a puzzle, Georgi Ganetsovski, the expedition leader was quoted as saying"

How weird. He seems to be surprised that she has perfect teeth. As thought this was not the norm. Bizarre.


Completely contradicting the view that those teeth have been destroyed in that time. Often over thousands of years. There are thousands of evidences teeth have survived intact for millenia.
So, let me understand you, are you saying because the teeth have not decayed over time and after death that this is evidence that tooth decay is not caused by sugar? I'm confused. Last time I checked, dead people weren't drinking Coca Cola.


Soft drinks do not require us to use our teeth to consume them. Right ?

So is this just about soft drinks? Or sugar? Because many soft drinks don't contain sugar. And some do. And sugary sweets, like Starburst for example, can remain in the mouth for some time and can get stuck in the teeth and require the use of teeth to consume them (unless you swallow them whole, that is) so if we're talking about sugar, that's one debate, but if the debate is about soft drinks it's a different debate entirely. Let's not go round in circles debating different issues. Then of course there are plant sugars, fruit sugars, etc, etc.


And that 'something' must be working internally, within the blood supply, (which is of course carried to the pulp and nerves WITHIN the teeth). Thus, the idea of external damage to the enamel of teeth by 'too much sugar' is a fiction. The cause is internal.
Please cite your sources, or alternatively your credentials in human biology. Otherwise this is just unfounded conjecture. You might as well say that the tooth fairy causes tooth decay, because she has a vested interest in you losing your teeth.

If you read my post, though, I don't disagree that there can be an internal element to tooth damage - as in the case of my sister and my mother-in-law, both of which had a greater propensity to tooth decay due to other circumstances (injury and pregnancy, respectively). But that merely made their teeth more susceptible to internal damage.


These are basic questions. Furthermore, teeth enamel contains ZERO carbon. They do not corrode from sugar. Fact.
I thought we'd established that the decay was caused by acids produced by bacteria which feed on sugars present in the mouth. Or are you going to tell me now that bacteria don't exist?


Yes, plus the other gruesome ingredients that give taste to many soft drinks. That goes through the blood system. Inside teeth, in fact. I completely agree that acids attack enamel.


So, let us have evidence to the contrary. Do you have any ? Why is this so hard to answer if it is true ? And if you do not know why is this being widely taught ?

I don't think it's particularly hard to answer so much as it appears to be hard for you to accept it...

...but then you can believe as you like. We've all got our own brand of crazy, right? What difference does it make to you whether or not I brush my teeth?

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

I love how Musicology is always prove this and prove that, but when HE is pressed, man can he dodge.

[JCamilo]

I have a friend who is a conspiracy theory maniac. When he gets drunk he goes on and of course we mock him, giving him more fuel. So, once I proposed the mozart theory and he reacted with indignation:

"No, not this kind of childish thing. Conspiracy theories that real people create to make the true Conspiracy theories to be ignored as ridiculous"

Believe or not, they have ranks. There is amateurs and professionals in this world. And, I am sure, some conspiracy among "theoretical" conspiracists.

[Lokasenna]

I love how Musicology is always prove this and prove that, but when HE is pressed, man can he dodge.

I'm not sure whether ignoring a question counts as dodging it...

Anyway, Musicology has come up with yet another cracker of a crackpot theory - I love it! Is there any sacred cow our fearless adventurer won't slaughter?

To be honest, M, I think you're barking up the wrong tree on this one - common sense, if nothing else, should tell you you're wrong. But by all means, feel free to test your theory - eat lots of sugary things and don't brush your teeth for the next five years, and let us know how you're going on.

Well, I'll bow out now to avoid yet another pointless (if entertaining) argument. I'm very much looking forward to the next thread - what will be next on your list? Is the Belgian Parliament planning world domination? Are nuns plague-carriers? Or is the Milk Marketing Board out to kill us all?

[Musicology]

FifthElement,

We are still waiting for you to provide medical evidence that ''too much sugar causes damage to the enamel of teeth''. When, in actual fact, it does not and you cannot provide a shred of evidence.

This is the fourth time I am asking for evidence in support of that which dentists and toothpaste manufacturers are telling us on this issue. Do you finally have evidence to support their false dogma ? Am I going too fast for you ?

Where - IS - the - actual - evidence - that - too - much - SUGAR corrodes the enamel of our teeth ??????????????

Gee !!!

Thank You




Go on then. I'm more than happy to review your 'lots of' evidence.

I see you've posted one link in which the 'scientist' states in relation to the perfect teeth "She would have had a perfect smile - it really is a puzzle, Georgi Ganetsovski, the expedition leader was quoted as saying"

How weird. He seems to be surprised that she has perfect teeth. As thought this was not the norm. Bizarre.


So, let me understand you, are you saying because the teeth have not decayed over time and after death that this is evidence that tooth decay is not caused by sugar? I'm confused. Last time I checked, dead people weren't drinking Coca Cola.



So is this just about soft drinks? Or sugar? Because many soft drinks don't contain sugar. And some do. And sugary sweets, like Starburst for example, can remain in the mouth for some time and can get stuck in the teeth and require the use of teeth to consume them (unless you swallow them whole, that is) so if we're talking about sugar, that's one debate, but if the debate is about soft drinks it's a different debate entirely. Let's not go round in circles debating different issues. Then of course there are plant sugars, fruit sugars, etc, etc.


Please cite your sources, or alternatively your credentials in human biology. Otherwise this is just unfounded conjecture. You might as well say that the tooth fairy causes tooth decay, because she has a vested interest in you losing your teeth.

If you read my post, though, I don't disagree that there can be an internal element to tooth damage - as in the case of my sister and my mother-in-law, both of which had a greater propensity to tooth decay due to other circumstances (injury and pregnancy, respectively). But that merely made their teeth more susceptible to internal damage.


I thought we'd established that the decay was caused by acids produced by bacteria which feed on sugars present in the mouth. Or are you going to tell me now that bacteria don't exist?





I don't think it's particularly hard to answer so much as it appears to be hard for you to accept it...

...but then you can believe as you like. We've all got our own brand of crazy, right? What difference does it make to you whether or not I brush my teeth?

And your evidence that too much sugar can corrode the enamel on our teeth is.......................... ?????


WHAT ?



I love how Musicology is always prove this and prove that, but when HE is pressed, man can he dodge.

I can do better than that.

Provide for us some actual evidence from a dentist journal, or any medical journal, that too much sugar corrodes the enamel on our teeth.

Just do it and stop waffling !!! This is page 3 of this thread and the excuses are running out. Where is the evidence ?

Neither you nor any other poster on this thread has provided any evidence because it does not exist. Although dentists and toohpaste manufacturers have persuaded you it must be true. So you believe it. That's how you 'learned' it. Right ?

So, how about some...... evidence ?

Thank You



I'm not sure whether ignoring a question counts as dodging it...

Anyway, Musicology has come up with yet another cracker of a crackpot theory - I love it! Is there any sacred cow our fearless adventurer won't slaughter?

To be honest, M, I think you're barking up the wrong tree on this one - common sense, if nothing else, should tell you you're wrong. But by all means, feel free to test your theory - eat lots of sugary things and don't brush your teeth for the next five years, and let us know how you're going on.

Well, I'll bow out now to avoid yet another pointless (if entertaining) argument. I'm very much looking forward to the next thread - what will be next on your list? Is the Belgian Parliament planning world domination? Are nuns plague-carriers? Or is the Milk Marketing Board out to kill us all?

[DocHeart]

I'm amazed that anyone gives a damn about this thread.

[Emil Miller]

I'm amazed that anyone gives a damn about this thread.

Not when you know how good Musicology is at winding them up.

[MarkBastable]

Not when you know how good Sociology is at winding them up.

Quite. That's the decision each of us has to make. Is he a wind-up or is he sincere?

Me, I think he's absolutely sincere, because if he were pretending, he'd have to be a comic writer of genius not only to think of this stuff, but also to deliver it with such consistent voice.

[Musicology]

MarkBastable appears to have forgotten to answer the question. Again. Here it is again -

''Mark Bastable (drum roll)...... can you,,,,,, at the fifth time of asking... (drum roll increases in volume)... present readers of this thread with evidence that.... (drum roll increases even more) sugar in large volumes corrodes the teeth ?

The 'evidence' is said to be available in dental journals, the ads of toothpaste manufacturers and is subscribed to by men such as Mark Bastable. So, bring it on Mark Bastable !!!! (Trumpet fanfare).

Where IS the evidence ? Do you have any ? And why are we still waiting ??? Page 3 and still counting.

Brought to you by -

'We believe the dental industry and the toothpaste industry'
Honest !
PO Box 3753
Corporate Health Department
New World Order

:driving:



Quite. That's the decision each of us has to make. Is he a wind-up or is he sincere?

Me, I think he's absolutely sincere, because if he were pretending, he'd have to be a comic writer of genius not only to think of this stuff, but also to deliver it with such consistent voice.

[Emil Miller]

MarkBastable appears to have forgotten to answer the question. Again. Here it is again -

Mark Bastable (drum roll)...... can you,,,,,, at the fifth time of asking... (drum roll increases in volume)... present readers of this thread with evidence that.... (drum roll increases even more) sugar in large volumes corrodes the teeth ?

The 'evidence' is said to be available in dental journals, the ads of toothpaste manufacturers and is subscribed to by men such as Mark Bastable.

So, bring it on Mark Bastable !!!!

Where is the evidence ? Do you have any ? And why are we still waiting ???

:driving:

I rest my case.

[Calidore]

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/49/2/295.full.pdf

[MarkBastable]

I'm telling you now, Calidore - he won't get past 'Albino Rat'.

[Calidore]

A bit more recent, and with 101 references:

http://www.ajcn.org/content/78/4/881S.full

[MarkBastable]

MarkBastable appears to have forgotten to answer the question. Again. Here it is again -

''Mark Bastable (drum roll)...... can you,,,,,, at the fifth time of asking... (drum roll increases in volume)... present readers of this thread with evidence that.... (drum roll increases even more) sugar in large volumes corrodes the teeth ?

The 'evidence' is said to be available in dental journals, the ads of toothpaste manufacturers and is subscribed to by men such as Mark Bastable. So, bring it on Mark Bastable !!!! (Trumpet fanfare).

Where IS the evidence ? Do you have any ? And why are we still waiting ??? Page 3 and still counting.

:driving:

Huh? Did I say I have evidence, for or against? I didn't. I know absolutely nothing about dentistry. That's why I pay a dentist.

[Calidore]

I'm telling you now, Calidore - he won't get past 'Albino Rat'.

Frankly, when it comes to sources contradicting his position, I don't think he gets past the link, but it's better to try than not.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

I'm not going to provide any proof as to how sugar corrodes tooth enamel. I don't care either way. You're the one obsessed with it. I'm still going to brush my teeth, as doing otherwise is gross.

It doesn't matter, though, as people have been saying AGAIN and AGAIN that it is not the sugar that breaks corrodes enamel but acids produced by the sugar.

[Paulclem]

Have you ever tried sticking your tongue into the newly made hole straight after an extraction? The feel of raw bone is quite unsettling. I wouldn't reccommend it due to the risk of infection, but for a once in a lifetime experience it's good to feel your naked bony self.

Oh - not those kinds of anecdotes...:blush2:

[Musicology]

You admit you know 'absolutely nothing' of this subject, so why not ask your dentist and tell us what he says ? Then you can join the discussion.

Am I going too fast ?


QUOTE=MarkBastable;1041587]Huh? Did I say I have evidence, for or against? I didn't. I know absolutely nothing about dentistry. That's why I pay a dentist.[/QUOTE]

[Musicology]

And we are amazed that anyone can post on this thread when they don't give a damn about the subject. Still, if it makes you feel good we would like to hear from you again. On the subject itself. On 'Dentistry - Facts and Fictions'.

It is a FACT that some people post on Dentistry threads who don't give a damn about the subject.


I'm amazed that anyone gives a damn about this thread.

Thank you Mutatis Mutandi,

No, you are not going to provide any proof. Even when we repeatedly ask you to support what you posted.

'It's life, but not as we know it'.

Have a nice day !

Gilbert and Sullivan
'Never Mind the Why and Wherefore'
HMS Pinafore

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4ze_WFHBBo

:nopity:




I'm not going to provide any proof as to how sugar corrodes tooth enamel. I don't care either way. You're the one obsessed with it. I'm still going to brush my teeth, as doing otherwise is gross.

It doesn't matter, though, as people have been saying AGAIN and AGAIN that it is not the sugar that breaks corrodes enamel but acids produced by the sugar.

[MarkBastable]

You admit you know 'absolutely nothing' of this subject, so why not ask your dentist and tell us what he says ? Then you can join the discussion.

Am I going too fast ?



Just for you, I called a friend who's a dentist, and he said sugar in the mouth gives rise to acid which attacks the teeth from the outside.

What do you think about the document that Calidore cited?

[Musicology]

Sure he did.

And teeth enamel are corroded ''from outside'', right ?

I think you should spend less on lipstick and on phoning friends like that. Teeth enamel have NO CARBON. That means they are NOT corroded by sugars. The sugar (by the way) does not stay in the mouth. Does it ? It's swallowed. Nor is it chewed by the teeth. Don't you know this ? Soft drinks may be consumed by people with no teeth. Sugars are consumed in the food we eat and they go in to the bloodstream.

So the teeth are NOT attacked by sugar ''from outside''. You are wrong. When you drink soft drinks do you use your teeth to drink them ? Er, no ! No, you do NOT drink soft drinks using your teeth, do you ? Nor does the sugar stay in the mouth. Does it ? Please go to the bottom of the class ! And your dentist lives in outer space, right ?

This completes my contribution to this thread.

Dentists and the toothpaste industry must not scam you any more. I will write to them asking them not to misinform you again.

Gilbert and Sullivan
'Never Mind the Why and Wherefore'
HMS Pinafore

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4ze_WFHBBo

:nopity:


Just for you, I called a friend who's a dentist, and he said sugar in the mouth gives rise to acid which attacks the teeth from the outside.

What do you think about the document that Calidore cited?

[Alexander III]

Back to my original question then Music, so have you stooped brushing your teeth? and if you do bush them them why?

[Musicology]

Alexander111,

The plaque which may build up on teeth does not corrode the enamel. It is generally removed by brushing. But, best of all, by eating a diet which does not cause plaque to form in the first place. Dental removal of plaque can sometimes cause more problems than it solves if it damages the enamel.

Using toothpaste which contains toxic material is not a good idea. Some of it goes in to our bloodstream, for a start. This may affect the gums, which, in time, may destabilise the teeth from within if we do not have a good diet. And any build up of plaque exposes us to external attack of the gums by microbes, germs and other things.

The toothpaste they do not sell (and should) is made freshly and daily from plants. A good toothpaste may be made from watercress in the form of a smooth paste. Yes, that's right. Salt in small quantities is sometimes used to clean teeth although it is very abrasive on its own. It should first be dissolved in warm water. But the diet is vital.


Back to my original question then Music, so have you stooped brushing your teeth? and if you do bush them them why?

[MarkBastable]

Why did you ask me to ask a dentist then?

[Musicology]

I suggested asking a dentist so that you might learn from them why they believe teeth are externally attacked by eating too much sugar. The dentist failed to prove this occurs. And so, despite him teaching what you already believe we have no evidence of this occurring.

So I replied by pointing out that you believe a thing because almost everyone else does. But have no evidence to support it. And common sense did the rest.

Anyway, I am finished here.

Never mind the why and wherefore !!

:nopity:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4ze_WFHBBo





Why did you ask me to ask a dentist then?

[Emil Miller]

:smilielol5:

This has got to be the most hilarious of thread in the history of LitNet. My one fear now is that it's closed.

[Musicology]

Common sense is always open for business. It is one of the many wonderful products of the common law (the real one) !

Regards

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4ze_WFHBBo

:nopity:



:smilielol5:

This has got to be the most hilarious of thread in the history of LitNet. My one fear now is that it's closed.

[MarkBastable]

What do you think of the document Calidore linked to?

[Musicology]

A greater question is this - have you read it yourself (?) and have you found within it any facts to support your view that teeth are externally attacked by eating too much sugar ?

If you have found some evidence, even at this late stage, we may rescue this thread from farce, and may augment it to the status of slapstick. But on that second subject I will resist the temptation of suggesting you already know that subject rather better than dentistry.

Since common sense is always open for business please provide evidence in support of your view from the document yourself. It will earn you the admiration of all who read this thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4ze_WFHBBo




What do you think of the document Calidore linked to?

[MarkBastable]

A greater question is this - have you read it yourself and have you found within it any facts to support your view that teeth are externally attacked by eating too much sugar ?

If you have found some evidence, even at this late stage, we may rescue this thread from farce, and may augment it to the status of slapstick. But on that subject I will resist the temptation of suggesting you already know that subject rather well.

Since common sense is always open for business please provide evidence from the document yourself. It will gain you great increase in your standing on this thread.

So you ask for evidence, which has been supplied, but you're not prepared to read it.

[Musicology]

I am prepared to read anything that is recommended to me. I am not prepared to believe everything that is recommended to me. But if you can give some reasons why I should agree with your position, please provide them here. Assuming you have read it yourself. That is how discussion works. Try again. And this time tell us what you have learned by reading the literature you recommend. Since we do not know. Please tell us.


So you ask for evidence, which has been supplied, but you're not prepared to read it.

[Panglossian]

Let's face it, dentists are pure evil, and here is the proof. FACT.

http://www.webwombat.com.au/entertainment/humour/images/312evil-dentist.jpg

[MarkBastable]

I am prepared to read anything that is recommended to me, you say.

Calidore has recommended it to you.

[Musicology]

The madness and insanity of crowds is well known. If the gullible public wish to use materials that are toxic and are recommended to do so by 'experts' we arrive at whole industries whose dogmas are the opposite of common sense.

Speaking of toxins, there is of course no truth in the idea that our air, our sea, our water, our food, our plants, our toothpaste, our drinks and our bodies are being increasingly bombarded by them. Those are just products of our 'scientific civilization'.

Right ?

Yes, and we wait for you to give us some evidence from it to support your view. Then we can have a discussion. But not till then. Unless you provide some I have better things to do. Where is your evidence ? Please provide some. Here on the thread.


I am prepared to read anything that is recommended to me, you say.

Calidore has recommended it to you.

[MarkBastable]

Yes, and we wait for you to give us some evidence from it to support your view. Then we can have a discussion. But not till then. Unless you provide some I have better things to do. Where is your evidence ? Please provide some. Here on the thread.



Why me? What's wrong with Calidore?

[kiki1982]

I think we'll talk again when you have had a VERY PAINFUL abcess or when you have been walking around with toothache.

I can tell you, that is excruciating. Fortunately the dentist could save my tooth, otherwise I would have had to have it pulled, which I was not looking forward to.

[TheFifthElement]

Yes, and we wait for you to give us some evidence from it to support your view.

It's an old cliche but true here:

"I'll show you mine, when you show me yours."

*Edit* oh yeah, I already showed you some evidence.

Show me your's...

[Musicology]

Your post has nothing to do with the myths of dentistry. One of which is that ''too much sugar corrodes the enamel of teeth''. It does NOT do so. And nobody has produced any evidence.

And, as far as your recommended safe limits of toxins is concerned (which you suggest in a previous post) it is of course best to avoid using them altogether. Since they may cause things like painful abcesses. From the toxins which build up in areas such as the nerve area of the tooth. Inside, that is.

But anyway, thanks.

I am glad your problem was solved by a dentist pulling the tooth out.



I think we'll talk again when you have had a VERY PAINFUL abcess or when you have been walking around with toothache.

I can tell you, that is excruciating. Fortunately the dentist could save my tooth, otherwise I would have had to have it pulled, which I was not looking forward to.

No, you have cited no evidence. We still wait for ANY evidence that 'too much sugar cases dental decay'. There is none.

If you have some evidence it's time for you to produce it. You can't. You don't have any. That's why. And nor can anybody else.

5 pages of this thread are quite enough. The emperor has no clothes.

And stop eating fluoride. It's not good for you. It dumbs you down.

(This message was brought to you free by a critic of the dental industry and the toothpaste industry. An industry who refuse to provide any evidence for what they are taught and for what they teach the public. As usual. They can take their toxic toothpaste somewhere else. Dump it in the trash ! With their fictions of 'too much sugar causes tooth decay'. It doesn't. The enamel of teeth is NOT decayed by eating too much sugar. In fact the enamel is unaffected by any intake of sugar. And toxins in any toothpaste are a bad idea. Why do they push those poisons on people ? So they should stop the lies. Or produce evidence. There is none. There never has been.



It's an old cliche but true here:

"I'll show you mine, when you show me yours."

*Edit* oh yeah, I already showed you some evidence.

Show me your's...

[Calidore]

Why me? What's wrong with Calidore?

He was sleeping.

This thread has gone the same way as the Fukushima thread. Musicology takes contrary positions on a variety of apparently self-evident topics, aggressively demands evidence, ignores it when it appears, and supplies nothing himself but repetition and condescention. He's either doing it deliberately as a psychology experiment or because he just enjoys baiting people and watching them leap for it, or he's mentally ill and unable to cope with any reality but his own. Either way, he's not interested in discussion or debate, so attempting any more of either is pointless.

[Musicology]

Calidore,

I am asking for some evidence to be presented on this thread for readers and myself that ''too much sugar causes tooth decay''. Surely you can produce some. Can't you ? You are our last great hope ! It is said to exist in dental journals and publications. Nobody has yet produced any such 'evidence'. Not once. Where is it ??? And here we are on Page 5 and still nobody (not anyone) has produced evidence to support that dogma.

It's a dogma that comes from the dental industry and from the toothpaste industry. Isn't it ? The same dental industry and the same toothpaste industry who want us to brush our teeth with products which contain poisons. Just a coincidence, right ? Industries which (for reasons known only to you) is the one you choose to support on sugar and tooth decay. Why ? Do you own shares in the dental industry or in the toothpaste industry ?

Now, I am a patient man. I am prepared as anyone can see to wait pages and pages to see what evidence can actually be produced to support the false dogma you are pushing. So far we have seen none. None at all. It's hilarious !!

You now say I am ''not interested in discussion or debate'' !! When the very opposite is true. Here we are on Page 5 and I am STILL waiting for evidence that ''too much sugar causes corrosion of the teeth''. So are others. Do you have any to show us ?? Any at all ? I am so interested in your answer I am prepared to wait even longer for it. But you ain't got any have you ?

But you now say, 'He is not interested in discussion or debate, so attempting any more of either is pointless'.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And there you have it folks !! What more can we say ? The surreal world of popular fiction. They believe this rubbish with zero evidence to show us. They spend millions to convince you. And you don't believe them, do you ?

Let's pretend nobody notices Calidore is limited to talking fiction and sheer unsubstantiated nonsense. Accusing his critics of needing mental care. Yes, that sounds like vested interests, doesn't it ?

Gilbert and Sullivan
'Never Mind the Why and Wherefore'
HMS Pinafore

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4ze_WFHBBo

:nopity:




He was sleeping.

This thread has gone the same way as the Fukushima thread. Musicology takes contrary positions on a variety of apparently self-evident topics, aggressively demands evidence, ignores it when it appears, and supplies nothing himself but repetition and condescention. He's either doing it deliberately as a psychology experiment or because he just enjoys baiting people and watching them leap for it, or he's mentally ill and unable to cope with any reality but his own. Either way, he's not interested in discussion or debate, so attempting any more of either is pointless.

[Panglossian]

I personally do not know what causes tooth decay, but below is the common wisdom on the subject of sugar and tooth decay. Can you prove it isn't the case?

Technically speaking, sugar does not cause cavities alone–they are caused by an interaction between plaque bacteria and your diet known as “dental caries.” Ninety-seven percent of people everywhere have this problem.

Imagine a thin layer of microorganisms living on your teeth. Again, these are micro-organisms, far too small for you to see or feel until they build up and form “dental plaque”. These microorganisms are capable of producing acid which lowers the pH level next to your teeth. “pH level” means how much acid, how much base. If the pH level around your teeth goes below around 5.5, acids dominate and your tooth enamel starts to break apart. Above the 5.5 mark, teeth stay okay.

Cavities aren’t caused by microorganisms eating your teeth, as some say. They’re caused by microorganisms living their own lives on your teeth, and as a by-product, changing the pH balance. But guess what those microorganisms do eat? They eat sugar.

When you eat sugar, and don’t brush afterwards, the little guys have a feast. And that means pH levels will drop, which leads to tooth decay, which is cavities. So while sugar itself doesn’t hurt teeth, it indirectly causes cavities. There’s no getting around it. Eat fewer sweets and brush more often, and cavities will be less likely to form.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Thank you Mutatis Mutandi,

No, you are not going to provide any proof. Even when we repeatedly ask you to support what you posted.

'It's life, but not as we know it'.

Have a nice day !

Gilbert and Sullivan
'Never Mind the Why and Wherefore'
HMS Pinafore

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4ze_WFHBBo

:nopity:
Do you even pay attention to your own threads, Music? Support what I posted? I didn't even post anything that needs supporting (as you can see below), unless you want me to support the "90% of dentists" comment, which I can't, because it was fabricated. :lol: And who is "we"? Is Musicology more than one person? Now THERE'S a conspiracy.

Absurdity of the thread's premise notwithstanding, I have come to the conclusion that approximately 90% of dentists are money-grubbing charlatans.


Naw, let him stay. He makes things fun.


I love how Musicology is always prove this and prove that, but when HE is pressed, man can he dodge.


I'm not going to provide any proof as to how sugar corrodes tooth enamel. I don't care either way. You're the one obsessed with it. I'm still going to brush my teeth, as doing otherwise is gross.

It doesn't matter, though, as people have been saying AGAIN and AGAIN that it is not the sugar that breaks corrodes enamel but acids produced by the sugar.



I have a crazy idea that will yield no results. Musicology, you started this thread, why don't you provide some better evidence to support your claim, since, being the one that goes against an almost universal scientific consensus that the acid from sugar corrodes tooth enamel, it is the claim that most needs support. So far, you've posted links to this (http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/pro-life-groups-call-for-pepsi-boycott-over-aborted-fetal-cell-lines/) (which doesn't even seem to be relevant), this (http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=41751) (of which I can't find anything that supports your claim, as we don't know what the person ate), this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4ze_WFHBBo) (completely irrelevant), and you copied and pasted this article (http://www.aroma-essence.com/research-reports/fluoride.html), which seems dubious at best. People have posted links which you have ignored.

Oh, and as to your "we swallow sugar argument, so it doesn't stay in our mouths" which you seem to think is an immensely clever argument (no one has refuted it because it's so absurd, but I'll indulge you), I ask you this: Have you ever eaten a candy bar? A cookie? Food in general? If you have, you probably noticed how food gets stuck in between teeth, behind teeth, around teeth, even ON teeth. Even liquids leave residue behind.

So, what next, Music? Are you going to answer questions, provide questions, or just exhibit more snide and trollish behavior? I know what I'm betting on. . . .

[Buh4Bee]

It's not just enamel and tooth paste that are concerns. You can buy "organic" tooth paste- US brand Tom's of Maine. There is still serious concerns of bacteria and gum disease. An organic diet is not enough. You will end up needing surgery if you don't do something to keep your mouth clean. Brushing twice a day and glossing is what is generally recommended.

I know this thread is kind of a joke!

[Musicology]

Jersea,

You do not seem to have read this thread thoroughly. I have already said today that we need to clean our teeth. We are not talking about that, are we ? (If you cannot find the post where I said so I will remind you of it). We are here discussing (or trying to discuss) whether too much sugar causes tooth decay. The industry says it does. And so does the toothpaste industry.

Please stay with us to see if any evidence in support of that view is produced here. It will never appear. You may be sure of it. Because it is nonsense that comes from the same industries who never complain when poisonous toothpaste is advertised, sold and consumed internationally.

Regards



It's not just enamel and tooth paste that are concerns. You can buy "organic" tooth paste- US brand Tom's of Maine. There is still serious concerns of bacteria and gum disease. An organic diet is not enough. You will end up needing surgery if you don't do something to keep your mouth clean. Brushing twice a day and glossing is what is generally recommended.

I know this thread is kind of a joke!

OK, you don't know what causes tooth decay. The dental industry tells us too much sugar causes major tooth decay. It's the 'common wisdom', as you say. And we are waiting to see if anyone can provide supporting evidence for this dogma of theirs. We are now on page 5. And are still waiting.

Time will tell if they can do so.

You see that so far they cannot. Not a very impressive record for 'common wisdom' is it ?



I personally do not know what causes tooth decay, but below is the common wisdom on the subject of sugar and tooth decay. Can you prove it isn't the case?

Technically speaking, sugar does not cause cavities alone–they are caused by an interaction between plaque bacteria and your diet known as “dental caries.” Ninety-seven percent of people everywhere have this problem.

Imagine a thin layer of microorganisms living on your teeth. Again, these are micro-organisms, far too small for you to see or feel until they build up and form “dental plaque”. These microorganisms are capable of producing acid which lowers the pH level next to your teeth. “pH level” means how much acid, how much base. If the pH level around your teeth goes below around 5.5, acids dominate and your tooth enamel starts to break apart. Above the 5.5 mark, teeth stay okay.

Cavities aren’t caused by microorganisms eating your teeth, as some say. They’re caused by microorganisms living their own lives on your teeth, and as a by-product, changing the pH balance. But guess what those microorganisms do eat? They eat sugar.

When you eat sugar, and don’t brush afterwards, the little guys have a feast. And that means pH levels will drop, which leads to tooth decay, which is cavities. So while sugar itself doesn’t hurt teeth, it indirectly causes cavities. There’s no getting around it. Eat fewer sweets and brush more often, and cavities will be less likely to form.

When is the evidence going to be posted here that 'too much sugar causes corrosion of the teeth' ?

Page 6 and counting.

I have in my kitchen a jar of strawberry jam. It is months old. The strawberries are preserved in....... SUGAR ! They have not corroded. Indeed, sugar PRESERVES them. Try preserving strawberries in fluoride toothpaste and see what happens.

Should I repent of telling you this ?

So, sugar PRESERVES organic matter. Ah !! That means it does the opposite of corroding it.

The implications are large, are they not ?





Do you even pay attention to your own threads, Music? Support what I posted? I didn't even post anything that needs supporting (as you can see below), unless you want me to support the "90% of dentists" comment, which I can't, because it was fabricated. :lol: And who is "we"? Is Musicology more than one person? Now THERE'S a conspiracy.










I have a crazy idea that will yield no results. Musicology, you started this thread, why don't you provide some better evidence to support your claim, since, being the one that goes against an almost universal scientific consensus that the acid from sugar corrodes tooth enamel, it is the claim that most needs support. So far, you've posted links to this (http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/pro-life-groups-call-for-pepsi-boycott-over-aborted-fetal-cell-lines/) (which doesn't even seem to be relevant), this (http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=41751) (of which I can't find anything that supports your claim, as we don't know what the person ate), this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4ze_WFHBBo) (completely irrelevant), and you copied and pasted this article (http://www.aroma-essence.com/research-reports/fluoride.html), which seems dubious at best. People have posted links which you have ignored.

Oh, and as to your "we swallow sugar argument, so it doesn't stay in our mouths" which you seem to think is an immensely clever argument (no one has refuted it because it's so absurd, but I'll indulge you), I ask you this: Have you ever eaten a candy bar? A cookie? Food in general? If you have, you probably noticed how food gets stuck in between teeth, behind teeth, around teeth, even ON teeth. Even liquids leave residue behind.

So, what next, Music? Are you going to answer questions, provide questions, or just exhibit more snide and trollish behavior? I know what I'm betting on. . . .

[Alexander III]

Alexander111,

The plaque which may build up on teeth does not corrode the enamel. It is generally removed by brushing. But, best of all, by eating a diet which does not cause plaque to form in the first place. Dental removal of plaque can sometimes cause more problems than it solves if it damages the enamel.

Using toothpaste which contains toxic material is not a good idea. Some of it goes in to our bloodstream, for a start. This may affect the gums, which, in time, may destabilise the teeth from within if we do not have a good diet. And any build up of plaque exposes us to external attack of the gums by microbes, germs and other things.

The toothpaste they do not sell (and should) is made freshly and daily from plants. A good toothpaste may be made from watercress in the form of a smooth paste. Yes, that's right. Salt in small quantities is sometimes used to clean teeth although it is very abrasive on its own. It should first be dissolved in warm water. But the diet is vital.


so you have stopped brushing your teeth?

if you have, to be honest I can't see anything wrong with that. The only real problem is that it would severely hinder your attempts at carnal pleasure, but you seem more of a man devoted to his studies and knowledge so I don't doubt that carnal pleasure is just a superfluous trifle for you anyways.

[Musicology]

Did I say so ? No, I did not. In fact I recommended that people clean their teeth. Didn't I ? So, please read what I have posted. Then you will not post useless posts.

This thread is on the myths of the dental industry. Starting with the myth that ''too much sugar corrodes the teeth''. I think that by now you will see that this dogma has zero evidence in support of it. But we are still waiting for some.

If you wish to contribute to this thread please post on the subject under discussion. Thank You.

I have a jar of strawberry jam in my kitchen. The strawberries have not corroded. Although they are in sugar. Sugar PRESERVES organic matter. Doesn't it ? Sugar is a preservative, in fact. It does NOT corrode teeth.

Hope this helps.




so you have stopped brushing your teeth?

[Panglossian]

I use fluoride-free toothpaste. I'd recommend it.

[LitNetIsGreat]

I feel a little song coming on:

Crazy. :out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLE6T97DA2o

[Musicology]

Neely,

Of course you do.

It seems any serious discussion online these days will be diverted by those who have nothing to say. People see it all the time. It's deliberate. They employ people to do it. Everyone knows. It's called 'dumbing down'. People must resist it. I do.

Anyway, the poison sellers don't want us to know the truth - that sugar does NOT cause teeth corrosion. In fact, sugar PRESERVES organic matter. Jam is an obvious proof. Jam is a preservative, isn't it ? Er, yes, it is !! Does the sugar rot strawberries in strawberry jam ? NO, IT PRESERVES THEM !!

So glad we sorted that out !!

Reality 1
Fiction 0

'Daniel'
Elton John

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA78e27R_J4

'Goodbye Yellow Brick Road'
Elton John

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zK0gXuifSAA&feature=related







I feel a little song coming on:

Crazy. :out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLE6T97DA2o

[MarkBastable]

Neely,
In fact, sugar PRESERVES organic matter. Jam is an obvious proof. Jam is a preservative, isn't it ? Er, yes, it is !! Does the sugar rot strawberries in strawberry jam ? NO, IT PRESERVES THEM !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zK0gXuifSAA&feature=related

I was thinking of cleaning my teeth with vinegar, which does a fine job of preserving onions. Or aspic - isn't it jugged hares that are preserved in aspic? Or possibly I'll brush with whatever it is they used on the corpse of Lenin. Or amber. Amber's a great preserver of things - look what it can do for Jurassic flies.

[Musicology]

Great. And what has that to do with the dogma that too much sugar rots teeth ? A dogma supported by zero evidence ? Nothing.

Thread Over

///




I was thinking of cleaning my teeth with vinegar, which does a fine job of preserving onions. Or aspic - isn't it jugged hares that are preserved in aspic? Or possibly I'll brush with whatever it is they used on the corpse of Lenin. Or amber. Amber's a great preserver of things - look what it can do for Jurassic flies.

[MarkBastable]

Well, you seem to think that sugar preserving strawberries is evidence of it preserving anything organic. (Quote: sugar PRESERVES organic matter...) You did say that, didn't you? You do agree with that, don't you?

By that logic, anything that preserved anything organic would be beneficial to teeth. Glad we got that sorted out! LOL!

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

:lol: Thanks for proving my point and ignoring everything I said that counters some of your asinine points. You can't prove anything, and you just ignore everything that disagrees with your fun little conspiracies. You're exactly the kind of person you constantly complain about, hypocrite. You worship at the altar of Conspiracy.

[Buh4Bee]

Music, I was attempting to add to the "discussion" by pointing out the fact that tooth decay is not the only concern a dental patient should be concerned with, but gum disease as well. So, I'm not talking about tooth decay, I am talking about gum disease. Brushing or not, you should worry about the bacteria that causes gum disease. This is another facet of overall dental care. I read the thread, but didn't see this point raised.

To prevent gum disease, you should floss twice a day, even if you don't brush. I think they also make organic floss.

[Musicology]

Your 'logic' is once again defective. You are really a poor student, aren't you ?

I did NOT say 'anything that preserved anything organic would be beneficial to teeth'. YOU said this. This is YOUR 'logic'. And it's flawed. Like everything else you post.

Can you give us some evidence too much sugar causes damage to the teeth ? No, you cannot. I have asked you five times. You have no evidence. You are not providing any evidence. You have no evidence. Nor do your other trolls. You are busted. I will spend no more time talking to such an ignorant person as yourself. One who cannot answer questions and cannot produce any evidence. None.

End of Story




Well, you seem to think that sugar preserving strawberries is evidence of it preserving anything organic. (Quote: sugar PRESERVES organic matter...) You did say that, didn't you? You do agree with that, don't you?

By that logic, anything that preserved anything organic would be beneficial to teeth. Glad we got that sorted out! LOL!

Jersea,

Fine. I have no problem with that. I was discussing (or trying to discuss) the dogma that 'too much sugar causes tooth decay'. And everyone can see no evidence has been presented to support that here in over 6 pages of repeated requests. Despite it being taught as true by dentists and by makers of toothpaste ad nauseum in their commercial publications and ads.

That is proved beyond all reasonable doubt.

Yes, I agree with taking precautions to prevent the rise of bacteria that may cause gum disease. Totally correct. Certainly.

Regards



Music, I was attempting to add to the "discussion" by pointing out the fact that tooth decay is not the only concern a dental patient should be concerned with, but gum disease as well. So, I'm not talking about tooth decay, I am talking about gum disease. Brushing or not, you should worry about the bacteria that causes gum disease. This is another facet of overall dental care. I read the thread, but didn't see this point raised.

To prevent gum disease, you should floss twice a day, even if you don't brush. I think they also make organic floss.

[MarkBastable]

Your 'logic' is once again defective. You are really a poor student, aren't you ?

I did NOT say 'anything that preserved anything organic would be beneficial to teeth'. YOU said this. This is YOUR 'logic'. And it's flawed. Like everything else you post.

Can you give us some evidence too much sugar causes damage to the teeth ? No, you cannot. I have asked you five times. You have no evidence. You are not providing any evidence. You have no evidence. Nor do your other trolls. You are busted. I will spend no more time talking to such an ignorant person as yourself. One who cannot answer questions and cannot produce any evidence. None.

End of Story

But you did say sugar PRESERVES organic matter, didn't you? You do agree with that? You said that? And your support for that - at least, the support you've cited - is that it preserves strawberries in jam? Yes? You do agree with that, don't you? Sugar PRESERVES organic matter. Yes or no? And this is a support of the fact that it does no harm to teeth? Yes or no? Is that the evidence you are providing? Yes or no? Can I make it plainer than that? LOL!! There will be no answer - because you know you are deceiving yourself!!! LOL!

[Scheherazade]

~

I think I have had enough of "you"s.


This thread is now closed.

~