Can belief in God be supported by logic?

[G L Wilson]

Have you got time for me to write a book?

Let's stick to the blindingly obvious:

Zero evidence to suggest they exist.

Overwhelming evidence that every god is a human construction.


Okay, we have established that nothing supports your argument for atheism, that it is an amusement at best. What use is it to others?

[The Atheist]

Okay, we have established that nothing supports your argument for atheism, that it is an amusement at best.

I'm just going to ignore this. You asked, I gave a brief answer; you choose to ignore it, no problem.


What use is it to others?

What do "others" have to do with it? It's a purely personal position.


So any promise that is broken is a promise made to you and to me and to every other member of "this company", which comprises all of society.

This is why Jesus is reputed to have said "He who is without sin may cast the first stone".

I doubt anyone hasn't broken a promise at some stage and the idea that a borken promise is a "sin" is quite alien to me. It's like doing the high jump and starting the bar at 3m - nobody passes.

[Ecurb]

This is why Jesus is reputed to have said "He who is without sin may cast the first stone".

I doubt anyone hasn't broken a promise at some stage and the idea that a borken promise is a "sin" is quite alien to me. It's like doing the high jump and starting the bar at 3m - nobody passes.

Why is the idea that everyone has sinned "quite alien" to you? It's certainly not alien to Christians, who know "there is none righteous, no, not one." Everyone bhas sinned in a great many ways -- not just by breaking promises.

But redemption is possible -- even in the atheist world. The sin of adultery can be redeemed by (you guessed it!) love.

[ftil]

The Atheist wrote:

First and foremost, atheism isn't a belief system. There is no conclusion to require evidence for.

Hm……I wonder why do you say that. Whether we believe in deities or not is our belief. Our reality is based on beliefs.

[prickly_pete]

But redemption is possible -- even in the atheist world.

No it isn't, that's exactly what makes Christianity so radical or revolutionary. You sin in the secular world you goto jail, you lose your wife, you lose your house...its over! There's no chance for atonement!!! If there was then banks would ignore my credit score!!!

[Ecurb]

No it isn't, that's exactly what makes Christianity so radical or revolutionary. You sin in the secular world you goto jail, you lose your wife, you lose your house...its over! There's no chance for atonement!!! If there was then banks would ignore my credit score!!!

Sometimes you lose your wife, sometimes you don't. I didn't say that redemption is automatic, simply that it is possible.

The reason Christianity is revolutionary is not because redemption is impossible for atheists (we "redeem" a debt by paying it, for example), but because the Christian is redeemed through no merit of his own, but by the sacrifice of Christ. Our financial debts are redeemed with money; our moral debts (for the Christian) are redeemed by Jesus' love and sacrifice.

[prickly_pete]

Our financial debts are redeemed with money.

WRONG! If I go in debt that record stays with me for the rest of my life...If I goto jail that record stays with me for the rest of my life...If I check into a rehab clinic that record stays with me for the rest of my life...

Secular society doesn't forgive!!! It couldn't survive if it did!!! Loans might be granted to irresponsible people...jobs might be given to ex-convicts...drivers liscenses might be granted to drug addicts...this isn't efficient!!! Its a betrayal of the entire secular system!!! The whole thing would come crashing down in a matter of weeks if we operated this way!!!

A Christian loans his/her money and doesn't worry about getting a return on the investment!!! The Brotherhood of Man!!!

[Ecurb]

WRONG! If I go in debt that record stays with me for the rest of my life...If I goto jail that record stays with me for the rest of my life...If I check into a rehab clinic that record stays with me for the rest of my life...

Secular society doesn't forgive!!! It couldn't survive if it did!!! Loans might be granted to irresponsible people...jobs might be given to ex-convicts...drivers liscenses might be granted to drug addicts...this isn't efficient!!! Its a betrayal of the entire secular system!!! The whole thing would come crashing down in a matter of weeks if we operated this way!!!



Huh? If you go into debt (as everyone does whenever he uses a credit card) you redeem the debt when you pay the bill. Also, loans ARE granted to irresponsible people and drivers licenses to drug addicts. That's obvious.

You can't change history -- if you welch on a loan, you have welched on a loan. But you can redeem the welching. It's easy. You send a check to the people to whom you owe money. (Make sure you have money in your checking account, or it doesn't count.)

[prickly_pete]

Huh? If you go into debt (as everyone does whenever he uses a credit card) you redeem the debt when you pay the bill.

Ever heard of a credit score? You get a negative rating when you miss payments and that just doesn't go away when you pay a bill.




Religious people are ****ing stupid!!! Even when you're willing to meet them half-way!!! They're Right with a capital "R"!!! Nobody else in the world knows a thing!!! Trust them - they know more than you do!!!

Ecurb,

I was trying to make a point about some of the merits of Christianity but you just couldn't leave it alone. **** you and your Bible-thumping. **** you and your Church! Stay the **** away from my children!

How's that? Happy now?!?!?

[Ecurb]

Since I am an atheist, your rants make me feel guilt by association -- like a sophisiticated Christian might feel hearing the rants of a Fundamentalist.

[Scheherazade]

~

W a r n i n g

Please show respect towards those whose views differ from yours.

If you find yourselves unable to do so, please do not hesitate to ignore these discussions.

~Since the warning above has not been taken seriously enough, this thread will now be closed.