Grammar Help

[Rores28]

I didn't know where else to put this so...

"The unifying concepts consist of the following: systems, order and organization; evidence, models, and explanation; constancy, change, and measurement; evolution and equilibrium; form and function."

Colons and semi's confuse me, and I wasn't sure how to separate the items in this list properly. For instance, "systems, order and organization" is one concept, but it seems like it still needs internal commas. This is why I used the semis to separate each concept.

Thanks in advance for any help!

[billl]

Your decision on how to handle the colon and the semi-colons looks absolutely fine to me.


The unifying concepts consist of the following...


I think this part of the sentence might be OK, but something about it seems odd to me. Maybe the topic is just sort of abstract or something, and that's why I'm thinking it is odd? But could you just say, "The unifying concepts are..." instead? Maybe that wouldn't work, of course, it's hard to know without the context--and I know it isn't the thing you posted about, sorry.

[kiki1982]

Yup, it's fine, like Bill said. Semis (without apostrophe) are, amongst other things, for seperating items in a list when they are too long, require commas (so you don't see which comma is part of the list and which is part of the actual item) or may need some more breath than a regular comma.

So, as you have there compound items that require commas, you may use a semi-colon to separate. :)

[Rores28]

Thanks for your replies! They were most helpful!

[Venerable Bede]

The grammar is all fine except that you left out a comma after "order."

[Rores28]

Sorry I feel dirty for requesting more grammatical help, but just to clarify...

"In the context of this overarching framework the following biological interests are studied at length: the cell, the molecular basis of heredity, biological evolution, the interdependence of organisms, matter and energy, organization in living systems, and organisms’ adaptive responses."

Here it would be alright to use a colon and simply commas?

Thanks again!

[Rores28]

The grammar is all fine except that you left out a comma after "order."

My girlfriend and I have argued over this point. I thought that I had been taught, as you say, to use a comma before the "and." She says otherwise.

The dog, cat, bird, and hippo are animals. (my way)

The dog, cat, bird and hippo are animals. (her way)

She is more skilled in grammar so I usually subordinate my knowledge to hers. :)

[billl]

I'm able to read the sentence just fine.

Note, however, that venerable bede suggested putting a comma between "order" and "and" in your first example. Verable's suggestion reflects US punctuation, while your example (no comma before the "and") is the British style.

In this latest example, I think you're fine because I'm reading it with a "US punctuation sensibility". However, I'm not sure whether the "matter and energy" element of the list might throw off a British reader. Since they don't expect a comma before "and" in lists of more than two items, perhaps it might "feel" like that would be a candidate for a possible "final 'and'" or something. That is, maybe the sentence could be confusing in that:

"the cell, the molecular basis of heredity, biological evolution, the interdependence of organisms, matter and energy"

would be a possible list, with "matter" and "energy" being individual elements, rather than a pair representing a single element. Again, I had no problem at all with it. But your use (and reliance on, in fact) of a comma between "systems" and "and" at the end of this latest example is a switch to the US style (in contrast to your British manner of not using a comma before "and" in the first example). So, if you're being strictly graded on this, I doubt the instructor would let you switch between the two systems, using the US style simply to avoid using semi-colons.

EDIT: actually, Wikipedia says I'm full of crap about there being British vs. American styles in regards to this. Apparently there's flexibility on both sides of the Atlantic. I'm still not sure if it's a great idea to be inconsistent with it, but I think a professor reading a paper for a science class might not care too much.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comma#Differences_between_American_and_British_usa ge

[joelavine]

While I also think the first sentence is fine, I would suggest:

The unifying concepts consist of structural paradigms (systems, order and organization), supportive devices (evidence, models, and explanations), statistical variables (including those measuring constancy and change), developmental descriptors (evolution and equilibrium), and operational patterns (form and function).

Of course, the offered phrases defining each concept are provision, merely examples you might consider (and I had special difficulty in defining "form and function"). More precise and appropriate conceptual "headings" are difficult to suggest without knowing more about your area of inquiry. I would suggest this general approach however because by specifically naming each concept and then parenthetically breaking it down you will be providing more, and more specific, information; since these conceptual categories would appear to be significant, it seems appropriate that they should be defined by an overarching ideas, rather than merely grouping them together by their components without a further effort to define the concepts comprised of those components.

I think your second sentence is perfectly clear.

[joelavine]

perhaps instead "structural systems (organizational models, definitional categories reflecting order and differentiation)"

[AuntShecky]

According to the punctuation rules taught to me so many decades ago, the semi-colons in your sentence are absolutely correct.

[Ecurb]

The punctuation is (as Jane Austen might say) unexeptionable. However, I haven't the slightest idea what the sentence means. How are "systems, order and organization; evidence, models, and explanation; constancy, change, and measurement; evolution and equilibrium; form and function..." unifying concepts? What do they unify? What do they conceptualize?

[Heteronym]

I share the general view that the commas and semicolons are fine in that sentence. Commas and semicolons have the purpose of controlling the rhythm of the reading, of giving the reader littles breaks to catch his breath. I think your sentence is divided with clarity and ease in mind.

[Venerable Bede]

EDIT: actually, Wikipedia says I'm full of crap about there being British vs. American styles in regards to this. Apparently there's flexibility on both sides of the Atlantic. I'm still not sure if it's a great idea to be inconsistent with it, but I think a professor reading a paper for a science class might not care too much.

I wasn't aware that their was some flexibility. I have always placed a comma before the "and" in a list of items.


"In the context of this overarching framework the following biological interests are studied at length: the cell, the molecular basis of heredity, biological evolution, the interdependence of organisms, matter and energy, organization in living systems, and organisms’ adaptive responses."

I think I would put a comma after "framework" but other than that it seems fine.

[Rores28]

Wow! Everyone has been very informative and I've taken everything you've said into consideration. You've all been of great help! :thumbsup:

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

"The unifying concepts consist of the following: systems, order and organization; evidence, models, and explanation; constancy, change, and measurement; evolution and equilibrium; form and function."


The grammar is all fine except that you left out a comma after "order."

Either way is fine, you can put a comma after and or not. I prefer the comma. The one thing you want to do, though, is be consistent with you're writing, which is why I think Bede said you left out the comma.

Apt song. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZW7bB8D_mAY)

[kiki1982]

The second sentence is ok too. (Aren't you clever! ;)) Semi-colons in lists are only needed if the items in the lists are several lines long, causing the reader to forget the initial comma and losing the plot. :)

A comma before 'and' or not is a matter of opinion. It is called 'the Oxford comma'. I write with it if I find that 'and' needs a pause before it. Otherwise, I do not. At any rate, there are not special rules that one should or should not use it, I don't think it is even a matter of British or American.

[Kundan]

you can use bullets to make it more simple

systems, order and organization
evidence, models, and explanation
constancy, change, and measurement
evolution and equilibrium
form and function