True meaning of effort and hard-work?

[julian94]

Effort. This word is said too often but done too less. I should know; I do the same thing.

Personal experience (can be skipped haha)
Indeed, eye glasses and a constant hand on the air, people always perceive me as someone who always makes efforts and always try to be perfect. However, even though I do not tell them this, I am not as a hardworking as many people think I am. I always find myself dazing and procrastinating despite self-made promises to study or to perfect something.


Back to the subject...
So I ask this question: do you know what it takes to be a real hard worker? To be as hardworking as people perceive you to be? I always tell to myself that I have to work but the action is always lacking. And I am sure that many other people are like me. That said, that does not mean I am doing something less productive as I always want to increase my skill on a domain… just not the domain I am supposed to be training in…
What do you think are the causes of this? Subconscious retaliation against doing what is needed to be done? Self-vanity of thinking that oneself is a genius? What?

[Propter W.]

Effort. This word is said too often but done too less. I should know; I do the same thing.

Personal experience (can be skipped haha)
Indeed, eye glasses and a constant hand on the air, people always perceive me as someone who always makes efforts and always try to be perfect. However, even though I do not tell them this, I am not as a hardworking as many people think I am. I always find myself dazing and procrastinating despite self-made promises to study or to perfect something.


Back to the subject...
So I ask this question: do you know what it takes to be a real hard worker? To be as hardworking as people perceive you to be? I always tell to myself that I have to work but the action is always lacking. And I am sure that many other people are like me. That said, that does not mean I am doing something less productive as I always want to increase my skill on a domain… just not the domain I am supposed to be training in…
What do you think are the causes of this? Subconscious retaliation against doing what is needed to be done? Self-vanity of thinking that oneself is a genius? What?

Yes, I know what it takes to be a hard worker. People generally don't perceive me as hard working because I haven't been working particularly hard lately. I do work a lot, but it's not hard work. I can't say I consider academic work to be hard.

I do procastrinate and I also tend to focus on the wrong subjects. I'm not sure why. I think the obligation makes it less fun to do and it makes other stuff, equally boring or hard, seem more attractive.

I'm afraid this isn't an answer to your question, though. Sorry.

[Alexander III]

From my personal experience the cause of hard-work is not only internal but also shaped by external social circumstance.

As in, on average, a person from the middle class will be in school a much harder worker than one from the higher or lower class. This is merely a personal idea formed from observation.

As in by the time we are in high-school we are all very aware of our social circumstances. A person from the higher classes knows that no matter how much he ****s up, he will always have the safety net of his parents money. A person from the lower classes knows that even if he ****s up, he will not loose anything, he is already at the bottom - worst case scenario he will live on welfare. Thus one from the upper or lower classes is more likely to view school or work in an irreverent and insouciant manner.

One from the middle classes knows that his position is precocious, as in if he ****s up he will risk ending up in the lower classes, something rather unpleasant if one was raised in a middle class family, he also knows that if he really succeed at school it will open doors for him to move into the upper classes, an ambition which a person born in the upper class wont have as he already was born with it all.

The system changes once we hit university, in university the middle class person and the lower class person are both likely to be hard workers as they are paying for education with student loans and realize that success in university is vital for their future prosperity. The upper class person continues to be irreverent and incessant.

Of course this social aspect of it is only a slice of the entire circle, personality and intelligence also have a lot to do with determining how hard-working one is.

[Paulclem]

Too simplistic Alex, though I realise that arguments have to be simplified a bit to make them coherent.

A person from the lower classes is less likely to have any expectation of achievement because that expectation is inculcated by their parents, who may not be aware of possibilities beyond their own experience.

It takes someone to really give poorer kids a sense of what they could achieve. I managed because the secondary school teachers I had worked on the assumption that our band in the school, (streaming then), could go to university. Without that idea, I would never have looked beyond the confines of my hometown.

Expectation and possibility is the main motivator - which s why middle class kids do better because their parents know what it will take for their kids to achieve the same.

We took our own kids around Europe - for the fun of it, but also to make sure they had an awareness of the wider world. They are now both hot on languages and my son is studying Japanese and Spanish at uni. I mention this not to show off, but that was our aim to encourage languages. How many other British families think this is important, and a brilliant skill? Not many considering how language teaching has been downgraded in secondaries. Without our input - particularly my wife's - things would have been different.

[tonywalt]

From my personal experience the cause of hard-work is not only internal but also shaped by external social circumstance.

As in, on average, a person from the middle class will be in school a much harder worker than one from the higher or lower class. This is merely a personal idea formed from observation.

As in by the time we are in high-school we are all very aware of our social circumstances. A person from the higher classes knows that no matter how much he ****s up, he will always have the safety net of his parents money. A person from the lower classes knows that even if he ****s up, he will not loose anything, he is already at the bottom - worst case scenario he will live on welfare. Thus one from the upper or lower classes is more likely to view school or work in an irreverent and insouciant manner.

One from the middle classes knows that his position is precocious, as in if he ****s up he will risk ending up in the lower classes, something rather unpleasant if one was raised in a middle class family, he also knows that if he really succeed at school it will open doors for him to move into the upper classes, an ambition which a person born in the upper class wont have as he already was born with it all.

The system changes once we hit university, in university the middle class person and the lower class person are both likely to be hard workers as they are paying for education with student loans and realize that success in university is vital for their future prosperity. The upper class person continues to be irreverent and incessant.

Of course this social aspect of it is only a slice of the entire circle, personality and intelligence also have a lot to do with determining how hard-working one is.

Well thought and written, tend to agree.

[Paulclem]

The whole class thing is much more complexthan it used to be. It's more about education and attitude rather than just money and social position. In the UK the shift from a traditionally large working industrial labour class to services has mixed up the division somewhat.

I find it interesting, Alex, that you seem to primarily think in terms of class, when,though it is certainly a factor in upper echelons, it is much harder to classify a person now.

For example, how do you classify an immigrant - of which there are a number - who is working in a warehouse for ostensibly working class wages, but who is already a qualified professional in their own country, and they are just training up in the English language in order to re-take their position?

Or someone from a WC background who has been to university and attained professional status? Or a graduate who is working in a supermarket?

I think the traditional indicators - speech, job, money, where you live etc don't give a clear indication of class.

By the way, I'm not having a go at you. I'm interested in this aspect, and I understand we might have different perspectives on the matter.:biggrin5:

[Alexander III]

The whole class thing is much more complexthan it used to be. It's more about education and attitude rather than just money and social position. In the UK the shift from a traditionally large working industrial labour class to services has mixed up the division somewhat.

I find it interesting, Alex, that you seem to primarily think in terms of class, when,though it is certainly a factor in upper echelons, it is much harder to classify a person now.

For example, how do you classify an immigrant - of which there are a number - who is working in a warehouse for ostensibly working class wages, but who is already a qualified professional in their own country, and they are just training up in the English language in order to re-take their position?

Or someone from a WC background who has been to university and attained professional status? Or a graduate who is working in a supermarket?

I think the traditional indicators - speech, job, money, where you live etc don't give a clear indication of class.

By the way, I'm not having a go at you. I'm interested in this aspect, and I understand we might have different perspectives on the matter.:biggrin5:

Your right I should have clarified, when I speak of class I do not mean it in the British sense where it is more about blood; I mean it in the american sense, where what class you are in is solely determined by wealth.

[tonywalt]

Very true. Even today, with class divisions dissolving in the UK, I can still differentiate classes by accent and presentation to a pretty accurate degree.

And here is Cayman, middle class lawyers or bankers who gain wealth, strangely lose their regional accent and "graduate" to what's considered a posher accent. Even those from Liverpool or Birmingham, where accent is very detectable.

[The Atheist]

So I ask this question: do you know what it takes to be a real hard worker?

I'll bite; yes.

In terms of physical work, I used to work to sheer exhaustion to the extent that I would arrive home at 7pm, eat and fall asleep until 6 the next day, when I'd go and do another 11-12 hours of back-breaking labour. I know I used to work hard because I used to carry the heaviest loads by miles.

Or maybe something like standing at a counter serving bettors in a queue that never shortened beyond 5 metres for a whole day, selling betting tickets and trying to make sure every one of 2000 transactions was completed correctly?

Or a day's cold calling on the phone, never putting it down, constantly ringing one company after another, being abused, ignored and treated with contempt?

You know when you've done a day's hard work.

[QUOTE=julian94;1039713]
What do you think are the causes of this? Subconscious retaliation against doing what is needed to be done? Self-vanity of thinking that oneself is a genius? What?

Well, my long-acquired opinion is that people are either slackers or they aren't. Achievers achieve in whatever they do, slackers slack around in whatever they do.

You can train yourself not to be a slacker, but it takes time and effort, pretty much like everything else.

If not, heck, 95% of the world is made up of slackers, join the club!

:D

[OrphanPip]

You can differentiate class by accent pretty much anywhere. Even in Montreal. I don't speak French with a Quebecois joual, and my English has changed subtly since I attended university.

[tonywalt]

You can differentiate class by accent pretty much anywhere. Even in Montreal. I don't speak French with a Quebecois joual, and my English has changed subtly since I attended university.

Agreed, except for the US where I went to school. There are different accents but no Posh accent. There was perhaps up to the early part of the last century sort of a New England accent of people like Katherine Hepburn, Bettie Davis(less so), and a handful of others.

Of course a strong southern accent might be considered lower class, but no material difference between a rich persons accent and a middle income person.

[Alexander III]

Agreed, except for the US where I went to school. There are different accents but no Posh accent. There was perhaps up to the early part of the last century sort of a New England accent of people like Katherine Hepburn, Bettie Davis(less so), and a handful of others.

Of course a strong southern accent might be considered lower class, but no material difference between a rich persons accent and a middle income person.

That actually brings to mind a curiosity of mine, I have always been told that the souther accent of the old money was very elegant and pleasing, was this just a pre-civil war thing or can the elegant southern accent still be found?

[Paulclem]

Fascinating stuff - accents and labels.:lol:

From the accent ridden - but interesting UK - it's good to see other country's take on their own accents etc.

[The Atheist]

Fascinating stuff - accents and labels.:lol:

From the accent ridden - but interesting UK - it's good to see other country's take on their own accents etc.

It becomes even more fascinating watching dialects develop. To anyone not a Kiwi - 99.999% of the population - we all sound the same, but there are three distinct accents that have arisen in the past century; two socio-economic group- and one region-based.

Group recognition, I imagine.

[Paulclem]

It becomes even more fascinating watching dialects develop. To anyone not a Kiwi - 99.999% of the population - we all sound the same, but there are three distinct accents that have arisen in the past century; two socio-economic group- and one region-based.

Group recognition, I imagine.

I've always been aware of different accents, but it was only recently that someone told me, or I read somewhere, that whereas I used to think of France - speaking French, Spain Spanish etc there is a gradation of the languages around countries, so that there are different varieties of French and Spanish - especially along borders. It makes sense once one thinks about how borders are merely ideas of demarcation. They are always presented as such discrete entities, but really the language in such areas tells us differently.

I know what you mean about sounding the same. When I was a lad in Yorkshire, it was very difficult to distinguish the variety of southern accents. They all seemed to sound cockney. You need the ear for it. In Yorkshire I could generally tell what village/ town in south Yorkshire people were from.

[G L Wilson]

The true meaning of effort and hard work is boredom.

[Paulclem]

A good, rewarding job is like gold dust. It's hard to get where you want to be though, as quite often you've no idea what you'll enjoy in terms of work.

[The Atheist]

A good, rewarding job is like gold dust. It's hard to get where you want to be though, as quite often you've no idea what you'll enjoy in terms of work.

Now, if only I could teach people that 20-30 years before they figure it out for themselves, I'd be a billionaire!

[JuniperWoolf]

Psh, we'll see. ;)

[Paulclem]

Psh, we'll see. ;)

Hmmm... business and pleasure don't mix well though. I can't see myself getting rich soon.

[Dude]

So I'm working on my theories about if it's possible to rid your life of laziness. And I'm finding that it's impossible.

The way I understand our neurons to work, we need energy (fuel/food/glucose/ATP) and recuperation time to function and grow properly. Like when you work out your muscles, you're technically ripping up your fibers, and when you follow that with ample protein and amino acid intake, your the muscles grow back thicker than ever before.

So I feel like our organic structures need rejuvenation time, which means we'll never be able to work indefinitely (until we adopt mechanical bodies lol). But if you are consistently pushing yourself to and past the point of exhaustion, then I personally consider you a hard worker, and understand that you'll be forced to rest.

So I guess I could say my definition of hard work would be "work hard or rest hard, but never give less than your best."


I'm wondering too though, and haven't been able to look into it too much yet, if you can work out a strong section of your mind, while another part is recuperating. Like how some people work out legs one day, then upper body the next. You need tons of fuel and sleep to not be dead all the time, but I feel like this would be a super efficient way to go about growing anything.

[Paulclem]

Your definition of hard work seems a bit limited in the sense that I might be working hard just sitting. There's also creativity - where you might achieve results, but pushing is counterproductive.

Also what does rest hard mean, and how can you give resting your best? Rest is our idiosyncratic selves rest - games, sleeping, films, music - but of course this also depends upon your wider situation such as the family you might have, or children to look after.

[Dude]

Also what does rest hard mean, and how can you give resting your best? Rest is our idiosyncratic selves rest - games, sleeping, films, music - but of course this also depends upon your wider situation such as the family you might have, or children to look after.

Hm, cool, so maybe instead of "rest hard", I could say "rest focused"? Or "rest efficiently"?

Like, when I said that, I was thinking about what happens when I take a nap or break during some hard thinking, and the problems I was working on follow me, creating an inefficient half-rest slash half-think session where I don't really get a whole lot of either done.

But when I can really focus on turning off my thoughts and just let my parasympathetic systems do their work, I feel very much more ready for work, in the same amount of time.



Your definition of hard work seems a bit limited in the sense that I might be working hard just sitting.

Hm, so I think, it's possible to be working while you're sitting. If sitting is your goal, and you're doing it to the best of your abilities, then I would have to say you're working hard. I may not agree with the level of contributions you're making to your surroundings, but I feel I can't say you're not working hard.


There's also creativity - where you might achieve results, but pushing is counterproductive.

Hrm, true.

So maybe I could say, working hard when your goal is creation-oriented, is making sure your surroundings give you the freedom to think, do, and write what you want. Then working hard to keep your mind focused on being free, lol. That's interesting.



So my refined definition:
Hard work is when you devote all your effort into achieving your goal.

[Paulclem]

I understand what you mean, as I'm an office wallah/ teacher who's also done some hard labouring jobs in the past. When I'm in the office, I do tend to refer to my work as being busy rather than working hard due to the phyical work/ pen pusher dichotomy. It's hard for me to think of e-mailing and making phonecalls as working hard.:biggrin5:

I think leisure is important too, though I don't often rest from work, i just do something different. A good balance is what's needed.

[V.Jayalakshmi]

True meaning of "effort" and " hard work"? The discussion had seen about class and then ripened to hard work by sitting.The main discussion has somehow centered around explaining the nature of hard work, everyone just accepting that effort in fact means only the beginning and the means for the end result of a goal reached which can be only by hard work.

I am not going to explain anything new excepting that after the rise of a class of workers sitting in front of a computer and working , the "hard work" has generally gone to mental work from a phisical sense.So just sitting and leisure become aspects of environment for the "sitting hard workers'.Yeh! mailing is just effort here and creativity is hard work mind you.:)