God and all

[G L Wilson]

God and all about him is a lie. If He exists, the world doesn't; and if the world doesn't exist, then He doesn't. He is quite impossible. This is a theory at any rate. I care little for myself, it's others that worry me.

[mazHur]

God is the beginning
God is the End.
You can hear him
In the chirp of sparrows;
You can hear him talk
In the silence of the desert;
You can find Him everywhere
Only IF you knew
Only IF your could hear
Only IF you could see
Only IF you could realize
Only IF you believed
That there is something more
Than YOU knew
That there is something less
That you've understood!!

[G L Wilson]

God is the beginning
God is the End.
You can hear him
In the chirp of sparrows;
You can hear him talk
In the silence of the desert;
You can find Him everywhere
Only IF you knew
Only IF your could hear
Only IF you could see
Only IF you could realize
Only IF you believed
That there is something more
Than YOU knew
That there is something less
That you've understood!!

Beautiful.

[mazHur]

Beautiful.

Thank you...


All praise be to Him
Who holds the reins
Of time and space
Who has His own ways
Of doing things
Who gives life
And causes Death
Who from barren lands
Sparks up life
Who from green lands
Turns roses into dust
Who that holds the heavens
And All below
Who that is Amazing
Mysterious and full of Suspense
He who is Magnificent and the Greatest
Who is Kind and Merciful
But Avenger at the same time!
What do you call Him??
God, Krishna, Ram or Allah??
Whoever He may be
By Whatever name you called Him
He is a Rose with Thorns
He is All Evident yet Hidden
Who is Imperceivable
Who is the Master of Destiny
Creator and Destroyer
Malign Him not.
mazHur

[G L Wilson]

Thank you...


All praise be to Him
Who holds the reins
Of time and space
Who has His own ways
Of doing things
Who gives life
And causes Death
Who from barren lands
Sparks up life
Who from green lands
Turns roses into dust
Who that holds the heavens
And All below
Who that is Amazing
Mysterious and full of Suspense
He who is Magnificent and the Greatest
Who is Kind and Merciful
But Avenger at the same time!
What do you call Him??
God, Krishna, Ram or Allah??
Whoever He may be
By Whatever name you called Him
He is a Rose with Thorns
He is All Evident yet Hidden
Who is Imperceivable
Who is the Master of Destiny
Creator and Destroyer
Malign Him not.
mazHur

And Mohammed was a man, a mere man.

[mazHur]

And Mohammed was a man, a mere man.


Yes, Muhammad was a Man
A Mere Man
A Man among Men
A Man
A Man who still lives on
In the hearts of billions
More than any other of the Greatest Men
Who immensely influenced this World
Who impressed hearts in millions
or billions.
To be a Man, a mere Man
Is better than to be a fickle god
Of Mythology or of Men
A Man who conquered
a great many Human Hearts
Who was like Us
Whom a great Men won't stop praising
Who remains the apple of a great many people
Whom whose people(and others too)
Consider a Man, a mere Man
Surely he cannot be God
To be Human and live like a Human
And live on in the hearts of billions
Isn't a joke
Find me a Man like him
And I will be his servant!! :)
mazHur

[G L Wilson]

Man can never be God, it is too dangerous.

[Dialectic]

This is quite the discussion. :willy_nilly:

I will say this though, as an atheist, I grow immensely tired of the borderline militant approach which with many of those who share the same outlook as I approach matters of religion and faith.

Like philosophy, religious faith represents an attempt on the part of the individual to come to grips with a reality that is apparently disorderly and meaningless. While I may not ascribe to any religious faith myself, it nonetheless plays an important and essential role in the life of the individual and of that of the community. It provides people with feelings of connection and civic obligation and it encourages them to place value in things outside of their material existence. Certainly it can be problematic when taken as dogma, but so can nationalism and marxism; as shown in the rise of fascism and stalinism.

Toleration is a virtue in and of itself, and people would gain immensely from realizing that.

[G L Wilson]

This is quite the discussion. :willy_nilly:

I will say this though, as an atheist, I grow immensely tired of the borderline militant approach which with many of those who share the same outlook as I approach matters of religion and faith.

Like philosophy, religious faith represents an attempt on the part of the individual to come to grips with a reality that is apparently disorderly and meaningless. While I may not ascribe to any religious faith myself, it nonetheless plays an important and essential role in the life of the individual and of that of the community. It provides people with feelings of connection and civic obligation and it encourages them to place value in things outside of their material existence. Certainly it can be problematic when taken as dogma, but so can nationalism and marxism; as shown in the rise of fascism and stalinism.

Toleration is a virtue in and of itself, and people would gain immensely from realizing that.

Richard Dawkins is civil virtue in fancy dress, no-one ever said that I was decent.

[mazHur]

Man can never be God, it is too dangerous.

God I will hate to Be
He is too self-centred and easy-going;
Angel I will abhor to Be
Angels have no heart of their own!
I am a Man and so I shall Be
Better be a Human than anything else!
regards
mazHur

[G L Wilson]

God I will hate to Be
He is too self-centred and easy-going;
Angel I will abhor to Be
Angels have no heart of their own!
I am a Man and so I shall Be
Better be a Human than anything else!
regards
mazHur

Too right, mate.

[Atehequa]

Without earth there can be no heaven

[Paulclem]

This is quite the discussion. :willy_nilly:

I will say this though, as an atheist, I grow immensely tired of the borderline militant approach which with many of those who share the same outlook as I approach matters of religion and faith.

Like philosophy, religious faith represents an attempt on the part of the individual to come to grips with a reality that is apparently disorderly and meaningless. While I may not ascribe to any religious faith myself, it nonetheless plays an important and essential role in the life of the individual and of that of the community. It provides people with feelings of connection and civic obligation and it encourages them to place value in things outside of their material existence. Certainly it can be problematic when taken as dogma, but so can nationalism and marxism; as shown in the rise of fascism and stalinism.

Toleration is a virtue in and of itself, and people would gain immensely from realizing that.

I think your post is shows a very fair and balanced view. The point is not perhaps whether God - (creator ultimate God) - exists in the end, but how we as humans with our differing weightings upon science, religion and personal experience deal with our fellow man as a believer or as an unbeliever.

It's been debated on this forum a lot, and sometimes devolves into mere argument and abuse. yet the question remains.

[G L Wilson]

Without earth there can be no heaven

To play the Devil's advocate for a moment: Without hell, there can be no heaven. Hey presto, Atehequa, back to normal. Well said, Atehequa, may I pinch it as it is a beauty?

[mazHur]

God, Poet and Justice :)

God said, 'Adam, I
Want you to do
Something for Me.'

Adam said, 'Gladly,
Lord, what do You
Want me to do?'

God said, 'Go down
Into that valley.'

Adam said, 'What's a Valley?'

God explained it to
Him. Then God said,
'Cross the river.'

Adam said, 'What's a River?'

God explained that
To him, and then said,
'Go over to the hill....'

Adam said, 'What is a
Hill?'

So, God explained to
Adam what a hill was.

He told Adam, 'On
The other side of the
Hill you will find a
Cave.'

Adam said, 'What's a
Cave?'

After God explained,
He said, 'In the cave
You will find a woman.'

Adam said, 'What's a Woman?'

So God explained
That to him, too.

Then, God said, 'I
Want you to
Reproduce.'

Adam said, 'How do
I do that?'

God first said (under
His breath), 'Geez.....'

And then, just like Everything else, God Explained that to
Adam, as well.

So, Adam goes down
Into the valley,

Across the river, and
Over the hill, into the
Cave, and finds the
Woman.

Then, in about five Minutes, he was back.

God, His patience
Wearing thin, said
Angrily, 'What is it
Now?'

And Adam said....

*
(YOU'RE GOING TO LOVE THIS!!!!!!)

*

*

'What's a headache?'

[mazHur]

Let the opponent glory in our humiliation or so called defeat..It is better to be charged with cowardice and weakness than to be guilty of denial of our oath and to sin against God. (Page: 60)

("Indian Summer" by Alex Von Tunzelmann.

[G L Wilson]

Let the opponent glory in our humiliation or so called defeat..It is better to be charged with cowardice and weakness than to be guilty of denial of our oath and to sin against God. (Page: 60)

("Indian Summer" by Alex Von Tunzelmann.

God is non-existent.
I am an innocent
Who believes in sin.
Imagine.

[mazHur]

God is non-existent.
I am an innocent
Who believes in sin.
Imagine.

Okay, IF God is non-existent then who's governing the affairs of the universe???
Would any one in the world behave properly if there was NO accountability?? Because everything everyone is accountable in this world for his/her/its conduct there is least doubt that the Creator by whatever name you may call Him will let his creation go with delving into accountability, of course, He is divinely capable and does of everything including forgiving or punishing anyone without Reason as understood by terrestrial/banal minds or senses!

[G L Wilson]

Okay, IF God is non-existent then who's governing the affairs of the universe???
Would any one in the world behave properly if there was NO accountability?? Because everything everyone is accountable in this world for his/her/its conduct there is least doubt that the Creator by whatever name you may call Him will let his creation go with delving into accountability, of course, He is divinely capable and does of everything including forgiving or punishing anyone without Reason as understood by terrestrial/banal minds or senses!

As Martin Sheen once said, "I see no method at all, sir." You may, I don't.

[mazHur]

As Martin Sheen once said, "I see no method at all, sir." You may, I don't.


as someone hath said, there's peace in chaos!! lIfe demands action, death does't.This ispso facto proves the existence of God, the Almighty! Only one needs to know to trust Him!!

[BienvenuJDC]

For Someone who doesn't exist, you spend a lot of time talking about Him.

[mazHur]

For Someone who doesn't exist, you spend a lot of time talking about Him.

What is history about?? Why do we remember events and people after they are over???? God was and is there...we deny Him because we do not want to nor do humans have the mental capability of comprehending and accepting the harsh reality behind the divine Truth.

[BienvenuJDC]

What is history about?? Why do we remember events and people after they are over???? God was and is there...we deny Him because we do not want to nor do humans have the mental capability of comprehending and accepting the harsh reality behind the divine Truth.

Yes, but the question is for the Original Poster. For someone who says there is no God, there is so much time spent talking about Him. I just wonder why it matters so much to talk about Someone that in their mind doesn't exist.

[mazHur]

Yes, but the question is for the Original Poster. For someone who says there is no God, there is so much time spent talking about Him. I just wonder why it matters so much to talk about Someone that in their mind doesn't exist.

sorry, bienview, I mistook your 'aim'\
you're right..people when confused ask themselves Alice was male or a female>>;)

One Thread Only

By Bulleh Shah
(1680 - 1758)

English version by Ivan M. Granger



One thread, one thread only!
Warp and woof, quill and shuttle,
countless cloths and colors,

a thousand hanks and skeins --
with ten thousand names
ten thousand places.

But there is one thread only.

[G L Wilson]

If God were, I couldn't forgive him.

[mazHur]

If God were, I couldn't forgive him.

would that change your belief??

[G L Wilson]

would that change your belief??

You mean if I could forgive him, no I guess not.

[mazHur]

You mean if I could forgive him, no I guess not.

either you forgave Him or not......will make Him NO difference. However, it will keep you wondering in either case!!:)

[G L Wilson]

either you forgave Him or not......will make Him NO difference. However, it will keep you wondering in either case!!:)

I wonder alright, mazHur, more about myself than anything.

[usman.khawar]

God and all about him is a lie. If He exists, the world doesn't; and if the world doesn't exist, then He doesn't. He is quite impossible. This is a theory at any rate. I care little for myself, it's others that worry me.

is it a logic or argument which you said "If He exists, the world doesn't; and if the world doesn't exist, then He doesn't. " ?? can u explain it little more what u wanna say ? :)

[mazHur]

I wonder alright, mazHur, more about myself than anything.
'good habits' seldom change!!;)


is it a logic or argument which you said "If He exists, the world doesn't; and if the world doesn't exist, then He doesn't. " ?? can u explain it little more what u wanna say ? :)

In this context it is also said, in the words of poet Iqbal
Jo tha nahi he jo hay na hoga
qareeb tar hay namood jis kee
usee ka mushtaq hay zamana

ie what was isn't there any more
what's there will not be any more
what is nearest to unfold
is what the world's looking for!

na tha agar tu shareek e mehfil
qasoor tera hay ya ke mera
tareeq mera nahi ke rakh loon
kisi kee khatir mayay shabana

If you failed to appear in the 'party'
is that my fault or yours??
It's not my rule to store away for anyone
the wine of yesternight!

and Ghalib....
When there was nothing God was
When there will be nothing God will be!!

[aliengirl]

In this context it is also said, in the words of poet Iqbal
Jo tha nahi he jo hay na hoga
qareeb tar hay namood jis kee
usee ka mushtaq hay zamana

ie what was isn't there any more
what's there will not be any more
what is nearest to unfold
is what the world's looking for!

na tha agar tu shareek e mehfil
qasoor tera hay ya ke mera
tareeq mera nahi ke rakh loon
kisi kee khatir mayay shabana

If you failed to appear in the 'party'
is that my fault or yours??
It's not my rule to store away for anyone
the wine of yesternight!



Hey mazHUR, these are beautiful verses from Iqbal. May I ask from which collection? Zarb-e-Kalim? The topic of discussion is quite redundant here but your poems and quotes make it pleasurable.

[mazHur]

Hey mazHUR, these are beautiful verses from Iqbal. May I ask from which collection? Zarb-e-Kalim? The topic of discussion is quite redundant here but your poems and quotes make it pleasurable.

thanks for your comments, I am flattered!!:)

here is the complete poem (titled Zamana ie This Age ) of Iqbal and video as well..
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm70/sachidosti/adematherhabibhafeezbaqi/iqbal7.gif


http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWZpQk_FIA8
PS: sorry I omitted half the first line ......ie Yehi hay ik harf-e-mehrmaana
( This is a 'private' secret)

Nice rendering of the poem by Iqbal Bano...MP3
Enjoy: http://www.mastfm103.com/tracks/?11008

I forgot to state that this poem of Iqbal is from his collection, Bal-e-Jibrael. Listen.........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZzctcYCvyE

[YesNo]

thanks for your comments, I am flattered!!:)

here is the complete poem (titled Zamana ie This Age ) of Iqbal and video as well..
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm70/sachidosti/adematherhabibhafeezbaqi/iqbal7.gif


http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWZpQk_FIA8
PS: sorry I omitted half the first line ......ie Yehi hay ik harf-e-mehrmaana
( This is a 'private' secret)

Nice rendering of the poem by Iqbal Bano...MP3
Enjoy: http://www.mastfm103.com/tracks/?11008
I can't read Arabic, which is what I assume this is written in, but I wonder if line breaks are used in Arabic poetry or not.

[mazHur]

I can't read Arabic, which is what I assume this is written in, but I wonder if line breaks are used in Arabic poetry or not.

YesNo, the poem is not in Arabic but Urdu.

Urdu poetry has adopted rhythm and rhyme (metre) from Persian and Arabic. It is written in different styles and patterns. A collection of stanzas where each stanza reflects a different topic is called a Ghazal, the most popular form of romantic or sad poetry in Urdu.
The poem under reference is not a ghazal but a Nazm where an idea or a thought(theme) is continuously composed from beginning to end, hence its title "Present Age or Present Times''.
Unlike English where meter depends on the vocal stress (phonetics) you put on the word or the syllable, every word of Urdu has Fixed ''stress-marks'' on it. Consequently any deviation from ''stress' will destroy the meter (as in music) and render the poem unreadable or unworthy. However, free verse is allowed in Urdu but it is not so popular and good poets refuse to accept it as poetry at all. Least but not the last important thing in Urdu poetry as also in poetry of all languages is the best selection of words and syntax which makes it enjoyable for reading.

Ofcourse, Urdu poems are split into lines, quite distinctly. Two lines go in the making of a stanza in a ghazal but there can be 4 or 6 lines as well in other forms of poetry.

[G L Wilson]

I don't understand a word of Urdu, but isn't it beautiful writing?

[mazHur]

I don't understand a word of Urdu, but isn't it beautiful writing?

For your information, Iqbal is the national poet of Pakistan. He is also famed as the ''poet of the East' or 'Philosopher poet''.

I was able to find an English rendering of Iqbal's poem I just posted in Urdu. You might enjoy reading his thoughts as well as find more of his poems interesting

here is the url to his other poems...

http://www.allamaiqbal.com/works/poetry/urdu/bal/translation/

THIS AGE

The past is dead, the future unknown,
This is the only truth;
The world awaits with eagerness
The age that will soon emerge.

I know them all,
But know them at a different level;
Using some, and used by others,
And playing the mentor to a few.

The astrologer’s eye
Knows not my restless nature;
An eye not enlightened
Will miss the mark outright.

Sunset it is not, but blood—
Blood streaming in the firmament;
Today is dying into yesterday;
Wait for the silver streak.

The reckless minds that have unleashed
The frightening powers of nature,
Now wait in fear for the thunderbolt
That will destroy their homes.

The winds, the seas, and the ships,
Are all at their command;
But the whirlpools, minions of fate,
Are coiling to swallow them up.

The old world, which the West
Had made a gambling den,
Is breathing its last,
Yielding place to new.
The dervish, who is kingly

In his power of faith,
Will live, though the storms
Blast the thrones of kings.

Whose Earth is this, God's or yours???

Iqbal again.......

THE EARTH IS GOD'S

WHO rears the seed in the darkness of the ground?
Who lifts the cloud up from the ocean wave?
Who drew here from the west the fruitful wind?
Who made this soil, or who that light of the sun?
Who filled with pearls of grain the tasselled wheat?
Who taught the months by instinct to revolve?

Landlord! this earth is not thine, is not thine,
Nor yet thy fathers' ; no, not thine, nor mine.
by V. G. Kiernan. ISBN: 0 19 579185 1

[G L Wilson]

I meant that Urdu calligraphy was beautiful. English can be imprecise at times when spoken informally.

[mazHur]

I meant that Urdu calligraphy was beautiful. English can be imprecise at times when spoken informally

oh yes, Urdu calligraphy is done in many modes, both Arabic and Persian.
True, funnily English changes with the mouth it's spoken with

[G L Wilson]

oh yes, Urdu calligraphy is done in many modes, both Arabic and Persian.
True, funnily English changes with the mouth it's spoken with

I couldn't agree more, I feel so stupid.

[aliengirl]

I forgot to state that this poem of Iqbal is from his collection, Bal-e-Jibrael. Listen.........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZzctcYCvyE

Thank you mazHUR for posting the complete poem and the links. When I read the last line I recalled it was from Bal-e-Jibrael. I'll check out the videos.

The second poem posted by you (The Earth is God's) is one of my favorites. It pulls down the whole infrastructure of nationalism, capitalism and so on. Iqbal is simply a peerless poet.

[G L Wilson]

mazHur, I am thinking of converting to Islam - it would be safer. I am not serious, I am just depressed: nothing I do seems to be right. I create chaos wherever I go, and all I want to do is to talk intelligently to another human being. I am so alone and nothing I do helps. Years of solitude have made me unfit for human company, I suspect.

[Calidore]

mazHur, I am thinking of converting to Islam - it would be safer. I am not serious, I am just depressed: nothing I do seems to be right. I create chaos wherever I go, and all I want to do is to talk intelligently to another human being. I am so alone and nothing I do helps. Years of solitude have made me unfit for human company, I suspect.

Two pieces of advice I can offer, for what they're worth:

1) The best way to get comfortable socializing is to do it, like now on the forums. Practice makes perfect.

2) One good way to get better at it is to accept outside input and learn from mistakes. Re. posting, slow down and explain your thoughts more, as the mods have asked. Write paragraphs instead of sentences, at least at the start, so people understand what you're really saying.

[G L Wilson]

Two pieces of advice I can offer, for what they're worth:

1) The best way to get comfortable socializing is to do it, like now on the forums. Practice makes perfect.

2) One good way to get better at it is to accept outside input and learn from mistakes. Re. posting, slow down and explain your thoughts more, as the mods have asked. Write paragraphs instead of sentences, at least at the start, so people understand what you're really saying.

I will take your advice onboard, it seems like sound advice.

[Varenne Rodin]

G L, how old are you? I don't intend to insult you, I'm just curious. It seems you're in the throes of an ongoing existential crisis. I've been researching correlations between age, maturity, and existentialism. Help me out?

[G L Wilson]

G L, how old are you? I don't intend to insult you, I'm just curious. It seems you're in the throes of an ongoing existential crisis. I've been researching correlations between age, maturity, and existentialism. Help me out?

I am 45. It is not a mid-life crisis, it is an ongoing thing with me. It has been going on since I was very young, when I asked my father whether this was all just a dream. I have searched and searched for the truth and the best alternative that I can come up with to death is comedy. But I don't think that I am laughing in the face of death but because of it. I have always been very aware intellectually but socially I am a disaster. I think that I might truly be mad.

[Varenne Rodin]

I am 45. It is not a mid-life crisis, it is an ongoing thing with me. It has been going on since I was very young, when I asked my father whether this was all just a dream. I have searched and searched for the truth and the best alternative that I can come up with to death is comedy. But I don't think that I am laughing in the face of death but because of it. I have always been very aware intellectually but socially I am a disaster. I think that I might truly be mad.

Einstein thought he was mad, because everyone around him seemed mad. That's the burden of higher awareness. You seem sane to me. Repressed, but sane. I don't fit well with typical society either. I'm glad I don't. Be glad you don't.

[tonywalt]

What's the cure for an existential crisis?

I always wondered why women do not get it to the same degree and effect as men. I was told it is because they can or do have children. As for those women who cannot or do not......I am sure they have similiar anxiety.

[G L Wilson]

What's the cure for an existential crisis?

I always wondered why women do not get it to the same degree and effect as men. I was told it is because they can or do have children. As for those women who cannot or do not......I am sure they have similiar anxiety.

It is not anxiety, it's angst. I see no barrier to women getting it in equal measure in this respect.

[Varenne Rodin]

What's the cure for an existential crisis?

I always wondered why women do not get it to the same degree and effect as men. I was told it is because they can or do have children. As for those women who cannot or do not......I am sure they have similiar anxiety.

I don't know who said women don't suffer existential crisis. It's not the same as a midlife crisis. It's simply the realization that death is eventual, and the confusion and despair over the lack of answers. The feeling of alienation from all of the religion pushers. The bitterness over being lied to by delusional adult-infants. It's baffling and even comical to wake up from this real life matrix and understand that 80% or more of the world population is still brainwashed and hindering science to push their god/heaven/hell agenda.

I'm in an existential crisis for sure. It has had an enormous impact on my life. I can't work typical jobs. I have to be doing creative things all the time, I have to be learning all the time, just to feel like I might have a minute chance of making an impact on the world and being remembered for a few decades after I'm gone. It's the only hope I have of prolonging my existence, because I'm certainly not banking on an afterlife. I want to help life on this planet, life that daft humans seem intent on destroying. This affliction has made me a vegetarian. I cannot be responsible for the death of any creature, nor the torture. I rarely sleep. I sculpt clay until my hands cease to function and I'm nearly starving. I endure emails from vapid relatives pleading with me to fear hell and "get right with god." I commit social suicide by being atheist.

Do some women deal with the strange loneliness of being smarter than everyone around them? Yeah, man. There's no "cure" and I can't say I want one. I want a planet of enlightened people. I want not earth.

Bright side? Since I got all angsty people treat me like the female James Dean. Sick sad world.

Being a parent doesn't make it better, it makes it worse

[G L Wilson]

Being a parent doesn't make it better, it makes it worse

I wouldn't know for certain but I would certainly think so. My concern for children is almost crippling, it must be far worse for parents.

[Varenne Rodin]

By giving them life I've sentenced them to death. What tears me apart is wondering which of my loved ones will go next. I hope it's me.

Don't get me wrong, there are fantastic moments. I don't know how other people raise children. Mine are astonishingly brilliant. Funny actors, little scientists, punks, jerks, rockstars. I couldn't wish for a better doomed life.

[tonywalt]

I don't know who said women don't suffer existential crisis. It's not the same as a midlife crisis. It's simply the realization that death is eventual, and the confusion and despair over the lack of answers. The feeling of alienation from all of the religion pushers. The bitterness over being lied to by delusional adult-infants. It's baffling and even comical to wake up from this real life matrix and understand that 80% or more of the world population is still brainwashed and hindering science to push their god/heaven/hell agenda.

I'm in an existential crisis for sure. It has had an enormous impact on my life. I can't work typical jobs. I have to be doing creative things all the time, I have to be learning all the time, just to feel like I might have a minute chance of making an impact on the world and being remembered for a few decades after I'm gone. It's the only hope I have of prolonging my existence, because I'm certainly not banking on an afterlife. I want to help life on this planet, life that daft humans seem intent on destroying. This affliction has made me a vegetarian. I cannot be responsible for the death of any creature, nor the torture. I rarely sleep. I sculpt clay until my hands cease to function and I'm nearly starving. I endure emails from vapid relatives pleading with me to fear hell and "get right with god." I commit social suicide by being atheist.

Do some women deal with the strange loneliness of being smarter than everyone around them? Yeah, man. There's no "cure" and I can't say I want one. I want a planet of enlightened people. I want not earth.

Bright side? Since I got all angsty people treat me like the female James Dean. Sick sad world.

Well articulated. It was damn hard to wake up one day and decide, "hey, I've never wanted to work in the corporate world!" Both my parents were artists, but I did choose practicality over a more creative fulfilling life.

That said, the jury is still out, and I can transition to something else. I damn well have to at this point!

[G L Wilson]

Well articulated. It was damn hard to wake up one day and decide, "hey, I've never wanted to work in the corporate world!" Both my parents were artists, but I did choose practicality over a more creative fulfilling life.

That said, the jury is still out, and I can transition to something else. I damn well have to at this point!

There's nothing stopping you but life itself. Riches are the solution to the question of life. No riches, no luck.

[Varenne Rodin]

Financial freedom definitely assists creative freedom.

[G L Wilson]

Financial freedom definitely assists creative freedom.

There is something about it in Ecclesiastes, it might be worth quoting. I quote too much from the Bible. I have been made to look the idiot on more than one occasion because my use of the Bible was out of context or some such nonsense.

[cl154576]

G L, how old are you? I don't intend to insult you, I'm just curious. It seems you're in the throes of an ongoing existential crisis. I've been researching correlations between age, maturity, and existentialism. Help me out?

I am thirteen, a girl, and diagnosed with severe existential depression. Is this common?

[Calidore]

By giving them life I've sentenced them to death.

Bit of classic philosophy that I think applies here: If you're on a cliff ledge with jagged rocks below you and a hungry tiger above you, and you see a strawberry growing next to you, pluck the strawberry and eat it, and savor it.

Your children were facing unbroken nonexistence anyway had you not had them. You gave them a strawberry (life) to enjoy as best they can.

And if atheism is social suicide for you, it sounds like time to find a new social.

[Varenne Rodin]

I am thirteen, a girl, and diagnosed with severe existential depression. Is this common?

It's very common in extremely gifted young people and gifted adults. It can happen early, as it has for you, or when a person reaches a significant milestone age (30, 40, 50). Sometimes it develops after someone experiences severe emotional trauma.

People of below average intelligence will likely never experience it, and it is very rare for people of average to slightly above average intelligence. It only happens to geniuses. In a way, that sounds like a good thing!

It really shouldn't be treated with medication. If you are brave and determined to create your own purpose in life, and if you converse with like-minded people who are capable of understanding you, your existentialism will lead you to greater maturity. For myself, I've found it best to avoid being too emotionally connected to the ultra religious crowd. I'm glad you found this forum. Welcome!

I recommend reading Dabrowski's theory on existential depression in gifted children and adults. It's helpful.

Isaac Asimov's 'Foundation' series demonstrates how important existentialists can be in any given universe.


Bit of classic philosophy that I think applies here: If you're on a cliff ledge with jagged rocks below you and a hungry tiger above you, and you see a strawberry growing next to you, pluck the strawberry and eat it, and savor it.

Your children were facing unbroken nonexistence anyway had you not had them. You gave them a strawberry (life) to enjoy as best they can.

And if atheism is social suicide for you, it sounds like time to find a new social.

That's very uplifting, Calidore. Thank you. :)

I've been forming new social connections with as many secular people as I can. At present I am geographically restrained. Separating from childhood family and friends, who really seek to destroy me with religion, is a difficult transition; especially difficult for them, apparently. Luckily for me, the internet was invented. :D

[mazHur]

''Interesting video!
The unseen, illusion of collective human consciousness, seems, would cease to exist in coming a few centuries. Human dignity lies in the courage, to unburden their thoughts from this collective delusion (schizophrenia) of the presence of the invisible.
A courage of one age becomes norm of the next.''
(comments received from a friend academic)




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s47ArcQL-XQ&feature=player_embedded

[Varenne Rodin]

mazHur, I love that video. Thank you. It's nice to hear that I am in such prestigious company. :)

[mazHur]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6Gt4WSK_NlQ#at=40

I had earlier sent the first 50 academics. This makes it 100.

The Big Question

Is Religion a Force
for Good or Evil?

Witch burning, mutilation, slavery, and genocide are mandated in the Old Testament, says Christopher Hitchens. Religion is not only untrue, it produces immoral beliefs. Monotheism is akin to living in a dictatorship like North Korea. Hold on, says Dinesh D'Souza. Christianity was a force for good in India. It enabled individuals to escape the caste system and share in universal brotherhood. India would be less modern, less prosperous if western religion had not been introduced to its citizens.


http://fora.tv/2008/12/07/Dinesh_DSouza_Whats_So_Great_About_Christianity#Di nesh_DSouza_Credits_Indias_Success_to_Christianity

[Calidore]

Religion is neither--it's a tool, like a hammer or money, that can be used according to the character of the person wielding it. Good people use religion to make themselves better and help others. Bad people use it to bring themselves power and strength, usually by the numbers of the weak people they attract as followers.

It's funny--I don't believe in a God, but I still hate seeing Him blamed for things He had nothing to do with.

[mazHur]

Religion is neither--it's a tool, like a hammer or money, that can be used according to the character of the person wielding it. Good people use religion to make themselves better and help others. Bad people use it to bring themselves power and strength, usually by the numbers of the weak people they attract as followers.

It's funny--I don't believe in a God, but I still hate seeing Him blamed for things He had nothing to do with.

butbut...............isn't it that all types and grades of people adhere to some kind of religion??? Why??

[G L Wilson]

butbut...............isn't it that all types and grades of people adhere to some kind of religion??? Why??

Do you have faith? Is that what you mean, mazHur? Put that way, I can only say yes. Don't we all? The hatred that I hold for religion is a test of my faith in humanity, in humour, in the essential goodness of man. The human race is not my religion, it is my faith or my bond.

[mazHur]

Do you have faith? Is that what you mean, mazHur? Put that way, I can only say yes. Don't we all? The hatred that I hold for religion is a test of my faith in humanity, in humour, in the essential goodness of man. The human race is not my religion, it is my faith or my bond.

the other day a pastor gave this sermon!

-- Margaret Thatcher, former Prime Minister of England, said, "I remember being taught by my parents from my earliest childhood, that the one thing about being British was you did not have to be told what to do. You rose to your responsibilities and took the initiative. Religious belief played a fundamental part in shaping that character because, whether you take the Old Testament or the New Testament, it puts the emphasis on the dignity and responsibility of the individual. You are accountable because you have freedom."

We, too, have freedom which is a priceless privilege. However, some people, because of this freedom, seem to think they can do as they please both before man and God. As such they are not free, but are in bondage to their own selfishness and passions. They are also boundary busters with little or no respect for other peoples' person, property, or principles. They have confused liberty with license forgetting that the price of freedom is still eternal vigilance—which includes moral and ethical responsibility.

If we abuse our privileges, ultimately we lose them.

With freedom comes responsibility and with responsibility, accountability. We are accountable to our fellow man and above all we are accountable to God.


source: The ACTS

and look what this guy says....


O end of every beginning,
O beginning of every end,
O manifest of every hidden,
O hidden of all revealed!

The light of Your beauty
In every believer's eye does shine;
The sign of Your anger
In every denier's heart we find.

You thank him and he is You,
Himself giver and receiver,
Himself the gift and the thanking.

None but You, the worshipped;
None but You, the worshipper;
None but You, the witness;
None but You, the speaker.

When the Saqi gave Maghrabi the wine
Of eternal life
He was annihilated and eternal.
He was non-existent and existent!

O End of Every Beginning
By Muhammad Shirin Maghribi
(1349 - 1406)

English version by Mahmood Jamal

[G L Wilson]

I owe no honour to God, only to my family do I owe honour.

[osho]

Religion is neither--it's a tool, like a hammer or money, that can be used according to the character of the person wielding it. Good people use religion to make themselves better and help others. Bad people use it to bring themselves power and strength, usually by the numbers of the weak people they attract as followers.

It's funny--I don't believe in a God, but I still hate seeing Him blamed for things He had nothing to do with.


But to speak the truth, with due respect of all religions, today we are divided along religions lines. Some of the wars were waged in the name of religions. However despite some of the abominable things being done in the name of religions some great acts, I call godly acts are done by religious people. I can give many examples and one is of Mother Teresa. She was truly a mother and so many disadvantaged and socially and economically deprived were helped by her mission. Not that she was not reproved for what she has done. Nobody can live without going thru criticisms in this world. If you do something criticism arises and if you do not do anything still you will be criticized. Of course acts of religion had to bear with criticism yet there were some real saints who braved all else and persevered their missionary deeds. Osho had to face criticism and yet he was really a bold person and braving all these arrows he succeeded in accomplishing his mission

[mazHur]

I owe no honour to God, only to my family do I owe honour.

and to your country and people??



Enjoy these quotes...

“HONOR” is a Primary Principle and prime virtue, is the feeling and the expression of admiration, respect, or esteem accorded to another as a right or as due. Honor refers to virtue, purity, a keen sense of ethical conduct, and integrity. We honor God as Personality, but are loyal to God as Principle. A Master learns Honor, and polishing ethics and morals. "Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God" sets the keynote of Honor to God above all things. Honour (or honor) comprises the reputation, self-perception or moral identity of an individual or of a group.

Be not ashamed of thy virtues; honor's a good brooch to wear in a man's hat at all times.
Ben Jonson

.................................

Don't look for more honor than your learning merits.
Jewish Proverb

...........................

The louder he talked of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

[G L Wilson]

"Be not ashamed of thy virtues..." I agree with this.

[mazHur]

I thought I must share this brilliant piece with you..

Victimology vs Personal Responsibility

"So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God."(Romans 14:12 (NIV))

Chuck Colson reports in Breakpoint how Gregg Easterbrook in his book, The Progress Paradox: How Life Gets Better While People Feel Worse, says that there is as much as a "ten-fold increase in unipolar depression in industrial nations in the postwar era."

After giving one or two other reasons for this increase Colson says, "Another mistaken idea contributing to depression is the 'postwar teaching of victimology and helplessness.' Intellectuals, politicians, tort lawyers, and the media have worked to identify and designate new classes of victims. As Martin Seligman [of the University of Pennsylvania] notes, more and more Americans identify themselves as victims of one sort or another. The result is a sense of helplessness. Americans, especially the young, claim to have less and less control over their lives at the same time that they enjoy unprecedented personal freedom." (Breakpoint, August 26, 2004 http://www.breakpoint.org/bp-home )

As I've reported on several occasions, in my experience having taught in divorce recovery and relationship classes over the past couple of decades, one of the biggest causes I have seen for failure in relationships is this victim mentality. At least 90 percent of divorcees and those in failed relationships I have worked with primarily blame their partner for their unresolved conflicts, while failing to admit that they shared equal responsibility (even if it was just being too passive and/or too codependent).

Furthermore, almost none even consider what flaw it was in them that caused them to be attracted to their partner in the first place. The reality is we are as sick as the people we are attracted to [or as healthy]. Sadly, as long as people play this blame-game, they will never recover. Even worse, they will continue to repeat their past mistakes. It's either resolution or repetition.

"Up to a point a man's life is shaped by environment, heredity, and movements and changes in the world about him. Then there comes a time when it lies within his grasp to shape the clay of his life into the sort of thing he wishes to be. Only the weak blame parents, their race, their times, lack of good fortune, or the quirks of fate. Everyone has it within his power to say, 'This I am today; that I will be tomorrow.'" (Louis L'Amour)

Or we could put it this way, "This is the way I am today. That, by the grace of God, is what I will be tomorrow."
source: ACTS

[G L Wilson]

I thought I must share this brilliant piece with you..

Victimology vs Personal Responsibility

"So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God."(Romans 14:12 (NIV))

Chuck Colson reports in Breakpoint how Gregg Easterbrook in his book, The Progress Paradox: How Life Gets Better While People Feel Worse, says that there is as much as a "ten-fold increase in unipolar depression in industrial nations in the postwar era."

After giving one or two other reasons for this increase Colson says, "Another mistaken idea contributing to depression is the 'postwar teaching of victimology and helplessness.' Intellectuals, politicians, tort lawyers, and the media have worked to identify and designate new classes of victims. As Martin Seligman [of the University of Pennsylvania] notes, more and more Americans identify themselves as victims of one sort or another. The result is a sense of helplessness. Americans, especially the young, claim to have less and less control over their lives at the same time that they enjoy unprecedented personal freedom." (Breakpoint, August 26, 2004 http://www.breakpoint.org/bp-home )

As I've reported on several occasions, in my experience having taught in divorce recovery and relationship classes over the past couple of decades, one of the biggest causes I have seen for failure in relationships is this victim mentality. At least 90 percent of divorcees and those in failed relationships I have worked with primarily blame their partner for their unresolved conflicts, while failing to admit that they shared equal responsibility (even if it was just being too passive and/or too codependent).

Furthermore, almost none even consider what flaw it was in them that caused them to be attracted to their partner in the first place. The reality is we are as sick as the people we are attracted to [or as healthy]. Sadly, as long as people play this blame-game, they will never recover. Even worse, they will continue to repeat their past mistakes. It's either resolution or repetition.

"Up to a point a man's life is shaped by environment, heredity, and movements and changes in the world about him. Then there comes a time when it lies within his grasp to shape the clay of his life into the sort of thing he wishes to be. Only the weak blame parents, their race, their times, lack of good fortune, or the quirks of fate. Everyone has it within his power to say, 'This I am today; that I will be tomorrow.'" (Louis L'Amour)

Or we could put it this way, "This is the way I am today. That, by the grace of God, is what I will be tomorrow."
source: ACTS

God, mazHur, if you left God out of it, you would be an existentialist.

[mazHur]

God, mazHur, if you left God out of it, you would be an existentialist.


Existentialism says existence precedes essence. In this statement he is taking existentia and essentia according to their metaphysical meaning, which, from Plato's time on, has said that essentia precedes existentia. Sartre reverses this statement. But the reversal of a metaphysical statement remains a metaphysical statement. With it, he stays with metaphysics, in oblivion of the truth of Being. Heidegger

[G L Wilson]

Existentialism says existence precedes essence. In this statement he is taking existentia and essentia according to their metaphysical meaning, which, from Plato's time on, has said that essentia precedes existentia. Sartre reverses this statement. But the reversal of a metaphysical statement remains a metaphysical statement. With it, he stays with metaphysics, in oblivion of the truth of Being. Heidegger

Heidegger must have been an idiot if that was the sum of his powers. The existent is made substantial beyond metaphysics by existentialism. Heidegger is postulating an ideal that is not only outmoded, it's fascist.

[mazHur]

Heidegger must have been an idiot if that was the sum of his powers. The existent is made substantial beyond metaphysics by existentialism. Heidegger is postulating an ideal that is not only outmoded, it's fascist.

I cannot say that about him..at least he had the 'courage' to criticize the so-called 'existentialists'. Also, it must be remembered that Kierkegaard and Nietzsche are not the last word!
a word without a predicate has no meaning!! Such as
A rose is red..
The sky is blue..
God is Great
In God We trust!!

[G L Wilson]

I cannot say that about him..at least he had the 'courage' to criticize the so-called 'existentialists'. Also, it must be remembered that Kierkegaard and Nietzsche are not the last word!
a word without a predicate has no meaning!! Such as
A rose is red..
The sky is blue..
God is Great
In God We trust!!

Is not a rose a rose before it is red? At any rate, this is simply semantics. The real question is: what is human? which is a question that Heidegger is not fit to answer.

[mazHur]

Is not a rose a rose before it is red? At any rate, this is simply semantics. The real question is: what is human? which is a question that Heidegger is not fit to answer.

A rose is NOT a rose until it is there!! Firstly it grows into a bud then blooms into a colorful flower. Similarly, Humans are 'chosen' animals with intellect endowed by God; they first came into existence and then so they are as seen now!!Just as Everything is 'borne' by 'parents'... one just cannot get born without one, so is this Universe.
Object, subject or predicate cannot be separated without having their meanings lost.

[G L Wilson]

A rose is NOT a rose until it is there!! Firstly it grows into a bud then blooms into a colorful flower. Similarly, Humans are 'chosen' animals with intellect endowed by God; they first came into existence and then so they are as seen now!!Just as Everything is 'borne' by 'parents'... one just cannot get born without one, so is this Universe.
Object, subject or predicate cannot be separated without having their meanings lost.

I think that you would have difficulty with Kant on that one.

[mazHur]

I think that you would have difficulty with Kant on that one.

What difficulty?? There is God or No-God..right? Aren't your arguments
about the absence of God in line with mine which say there is One and None??

[G L Wilson]

What difficulty?? There is God or No-God..right? Aren't your arguments
about the absence of God in line with mine which say there is One and None??

There is no proof of God other than in faith. I cannot manage the leap.

[mazHur]

There is no proof of God other than in faith. I cannot manage the leap.

HE is not an easy find!! Keep looking for Him and you will find Him, at least in
His manifestations!!

[G L Wilson]

HE is not an easy find!! Keep looking for Him and you will find Him, at least in
His manifestations!!

If he is for you, that's good. He is not for me.

[mazHur]

If he is for you, that's good. He is not for me.

Having Him or not having Him is a matter of choice. Having Him is atleast better than having nothing!!

[G L Wilson]

Having Him or not having Him is a matter of choice. Having Him is atleast better than having nothing!!

He is nothing to me.

[mazHur]

He is nothing to me.

That's no-win argument.
Do you know In soul's language nothing means everything??
Inductively, God is nothing means He's everything. At least He is
controlling your fate....

[G L Wilson]

That's no-win argument.
Do you know In soul's language nothing means everything??
Inductively, God is nothing means He's everything. At least He is
controlling your fate....

He's not controlling mine. I have nothing to do with him.

[mazHur]

He's not controlling mine. I have nothing to do with him.

but humans are not capable of controlling their destinies...
undeserving get at the top while the deserving ones rot in the pit. If destiny of fate was in human power this phenomena wouldn't happen.

[G L Wilson]

but humans are not capable of controlling their destinies...
undeserving get at the top while the deserving ones rot in the pit. If destiny of fate was in human power this phenomena wouldn't happen.

It is just the way of the world. God's got nothing to do with it.

[Calidore]

but humans are not capable of controlling their destinies...
undeserving get at the top while the deserving ones rot in the pit. If destiny of fate was in human power this phenomena wouldn't happen.

On the contrary, that's a perfect example of human weaknesses in action.

[mazHur]

It is just the way of the world.
God's got nothing to do with it.


God's got nothing to do with it.

Prove it.


On the contrary, that's a perfect example of human weaknesses in action.

If humans hadn't this weakness they won't be humans at all. Only this weakness gives humans the spirit and strength to live and move into action. They know 'something' is beyond their capabilities and that 'something' is above them all!! Name it whatever you may but the truth is that something, someone higher in power and control rules this universe!

[G L Wilson]

Name it whatever you may but the truth is that something, someone higher in power and control rules this universe!

Prove it.

[mazHur]

Prove it.

You are only returning my question which I asked you first!

Billions of believers in God is ample proof that He exists.
No control over one's fate is yet another proof that 'man proposes God disposes'.
Yet another proof of His being is that no man could change the world!!

[cl154576]

You are only returning my question which I asked you first!

Billions of believers in God is ample proof that He exists.
No control over one's fate is yet another proof that 'man proposes God disposes'.
Yet another proof of His being is that no man could change the world!!

Conversely, billions of atheists is ample proof for the other side.

No man could change the world? But I think the conquerors of old changed the world plenty, as did the great thinkers in any field. Unless they were all puppets of God. In which case I want to kill the puppetmaster for making me a puppet.


Religion is neither--it's a tool, like a hammer or money, that can be used according to the character of the person wielding it. Good people use religion to make themselves better and help others. Bad people use it to bring themselves power and strength, usually by the numbers of the weak people they attract as followers.

It's funny--I don't believe in a God, but I still hate seeing Him blamed for things He had nothing to do with.

I am reminded of this –


The pleasure of hating, like a poisonous mineral, eats into the heart of religion, and turns it to ranking spleen and bigotry; it makes patriotism an excuse for carrying fire, pestilence, and famine into other lands: it leaves to virtue nothing but the spirit of censoriousness, and a narrow, jealous, inquisitorial watchfulness over the actions and motives of others. What have the different sects, creeds, doctrines in religion been but so many pretexts set up for men to wrangle, to quarrel, to tear one another in pieces about, like a target as a mark to shoot at? Does any one suppose that the love of country in an Englishman implies any friendly feeling or disposition to serve another bearing the same name? No, it means only hatred to the French or the inhabitants of any other country that we happen to be at war with for the time. Does the love of virtue denote any wish to discover or amend our own faults? No, but it atones for an obstinate adherence to our own vices by the most virulent intolerance to human frailties. This principle is of a most universal application. It extends to good as well as evil: if it makes us hate folly, it makes us no less dissatisfied with distinguished merit. If it inclines us to resent the wrongs of others, it impels us to be as impatient of their prosperity. We revenge injuries: we repay benefits with ingratitude. Even our strongest partialities and likings soon take this turn. "That which was luscious as locusts, anon becomes bitter as coloquintida;" and love and friendship melt in their own fires. We hate old friends: we hate old books: we hate old opinions; and at last we come to hate ourselves. G.K. Chesterton, "On the Pleasure of Hating"

It's not entirely true, but he makes a valid point.

[MarkBastable]

Billions of believers in God is ample proof that He exists.

Seriously, between you and me, do you really think that this is a logical proof?

[mazHur]

Seriously, between you and me, do you really think that this is a logical proof?

Deductive logic perhaps!!

Faith doesn't need logic; faith is a matter of heart.
If you used 'logic' you will never learn to Love!!

[cl154576]

If you used 'logic' you will never learn to Love!!

If that's the case, I'd rather keep my logic.

[MarkBastable]

Faith doesn't need logic; faith is a matter of heart.
If you used 'logic' you will never learn to Love!!

First, then, don't call it proof.

And, second, are you suggesting that I cannot love?

[cl154576]

Proof is logical, love is not. However, they are not mutually exclusive.

[Varenne Rodin]

Excellent series of posts today, cl.

[mazHur]

First, then, don't call it proof.

And, second, are you suggesting that I cannot love?

I am seeking an 'appointment' with God and as soon as Gabriel fixes it up I will let you know the 'proof'!

What is love?? It's faith in each other.
For example, Without faith no one would respect his parents; no one would leave his inheritance for the public. This is yet another 'proof' that something above all
makes one feel and do things as children act towards their parents and vice versa. You love your friends not because they are your blood relation but because you have 'faith' in them; you trust them. Love and trust are NOT discernible directly but through mutual acts. This is how God is held by faith.

Calling someone a 'logician' may sound good but calling one 'faithless' won't.
This cannot be without reason, some reason, some people are not inclined to believe.


Proof is logical, love is not. However, they are not mutually exclusive.

I already stated that 'proof' is a 'twist' of mind; love is above all positive emotions as well as mind.


Excellent series of posts today, cl.

I thought i must share this with you...

''SIMONE de Beauvoir, the French existentialist writer, was on the dot when she remarked, “If you live long enough, you’ll see that every victory turns into a defeat.”

A friend of mine remarked to it as follows:

''Sure - a woman knows this from experience - when the glamour rusts
away... See the latest B. Bardot's photo and compare that to the time
when she was victorious over all studs small and large..'''

Another friend commented on the quote as

''clearly not an optimist.''

Wonder who was right and who was on the right side of wrong???:)

[cl154576]

Excellent series of posts today, cl.

The master puppeteer's been pulling my strings more quickly of late, it seems.

[MarkBastable]

I am seeking an 'appointment' with God and as soon as Gabriel fixes it up I will let you know the 'proof'!

What is love?? It's faith in each other.
For example, Without faith no one would respect his parents; no one would leave his inheritance for the public. This is yet another 'proof' that something above all
makes one feel and do things as children act towards their parents and vice versa. You love your friends not because they are your blood relation but because you have 'faith' in them; you trust them. Love and trust are NOT discernible directly but through mutual acts. This is how God is held by faith.

Calling someone a 'logician' may sound good but calling one 'faithless' won't.
This cannot be without reason, some reason, some people are not inclined to believe.

I am not, I think, an unintelligent man but - what the **** does all that mean?

[cl154576]

I am not, I think, an unintelligent man but - what the **** does all that mean?

The beginning is to ridicule a "proof" of God's existence.
The middle is to define and provide examples of love, and trust, and state that they are inevitably bound with faith.
The ending says that calling someone "faithless" sounds bad.
The very end makes no sense. I think there's a typo; maybe mazHur intended

This cannot be without reason, but for some reason, some people are not inclined to believe.



Faith is necessary, of course. But faith (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/faith) has multiple definitions.

[mazHur]

I am not, I think, an unintelligent man but - what the **** does all that mean?

I don't know how intelligence matters in understanding a simple note...
It's either Mind (doubt) or Faith (solemn belief) that leads one to the left or the right. If someone drove on the left in the USA he would end up in eternity whereas if the same person drove his car on the left would safely reach his destination!! It is a matter of difference in time and space, not that either of the two are wrong. Similarly, if one sincerely believes in God, he atleast is 'driving' his 'car' in the right direction as dictated by time and space. On the contrary one who is 'driving' his 'car' in the wrong direction of time and space is liable to go astray or crash!

Nothing comes into existence without a creator. No one can say that inventions of modern times came up by themselves,; they didn't and are obliged to geniuses of the time!! This Universe came into existence because of a creator whom we call God. Things get toppled and ruined or meet good results not only because of human intelligence. Were that so all the intelligent people would be kings and queens of our time!!

During my small survey of human beings I have noticed that all of them
deny God because He did not answer their prayers or in simpler terms did not play to their tune. They are obviously frustrated and in their despair blame God for anything which goes wrong or against their prefixed notions and wishes. Consequently most of them are 'sufferers' and would smirk at the thought of God, Scriptures, Prophets and religions as a whole.

Believing or not-believing in God is of NO value to God. The point is that those who believe in Him possess ''faith' while the rest restrict their 'faith'
to empirical results (such as many scientists and so-called thinkers). In both cases Faith is always there. In the former case Faith is as sweet as honey whereas In the latter case it is like bitter sweet aspartame!

[MarkBastable]

I don't know how intelligence matters in understanding a simple note...
It's either Mind (doubt) or Faith (solemn belief) that leads one to the left or the right. If someone drove on the left in the USA he would end up in eternity whereas if the same person drove his car on the left would safely reach his destination!! It is a matter of difference in time and space, not that either of the two are wrong. Similarly, if one sincerely believes in God, he atleast is 'driving' his 'car' in the right direction as dictated by time and space. On the contrary one who is 'driving' his 'car' in the wrong direction of time and space is liable to go astray or crash!

Nothing comes into existence without a creator. No one can say that inventions of modern times came up by themselves,; they didn't and are obliged to geniuses of the time!! This Universe came into existence because of a creator whom we call God. Things get toppled and ruined or meet good results not only because of human intelligence. Were that so all the intelligent people would be kings and queens of our time!!

During my small survey of human beings I have noticed that all of them
deny God because He did not answer their prayers or in simpler terms did not play to their tune. They are obviously frustrated and in their despair blame God for anything which goes wrong or against their prefixed notions and wishes. Consequently most of them are 'sufferers' and would smirk at the thought of God, Scriptures, Prophets and religions as a whole.

Believing or not-believing in God is of NO value to God. The point is that those who believe in Him possess ''faith' while the rest restrict their 'faith'
to empirical results (such as many scientists and so-called thinkers). In both cases Faith is always there. In the former case Faith is as sweet as honey whereas In the latter case it is like bitter sweet aspartame!


I despair. And not for myself.

But I agree with you on one point. If God exists, he will do so whether I believe in him or not. So I don't think it matters much to him that he has my approval.

[mazHur]

I despair. And not for myself.

But I agree with you on one point. If God exists, he will do so whether I believe in him or not. So I don't think it matters much to him that he has my approval.

Am glad you got some of my point:)

As I said earlier 'something is better than nothing''...why not give yerself a chance rather than despair even for anyone else??

[G L Wilson]

To believe in God is to despair.

[cl154576]

Pascal's Wager (http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pascal-wager/)

I'm not sure God would like being believed in on those terms, however.

[G L Wilson]

Pascal's Wager (http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pascal-wager/)

I'm not sure God would like being believed in on those terms, however.

I wager that there is no God.

[YesNo]

Believing or not-believing in God is of NO value to God. The point is that those who believe in Him possess ''faith' while the rest restrict their 'faith'
to empirical results (such as many scientists and so-called thinkers). In both cases Faith is always there. In the former case Faith is as sweet as honey whereas In the latter case it is like bitter sweet aspartame!
Nice way of putting this.

[cl154576]

I wager that there is no God.

Agreed. Better to risk misery than to compromise one's values.

[G L Wilson]

Agreed. Better to risk misery than to compromise one's values.

Actually, cl154576. Also, I agree that faith is necessary and has mulitple definitions. I also agree with Varenne, you are showing an intelligence above your age lately. Well done and keep it up.

[cl154576]

You sound so patronizing.
But I suppose everyone here has a right to patronize me.

[G L Wilson]

You sound so patronizing.
But I suppose everyone here has a right to patronize me.

I am not patronising you. You strike me as intelligent despite your age. If you want to find an anti-intellectual, look elsewhere but here.

[mazHur]

Ah! Despair!That forlorn hope which is born out of over-expectations and greed!

[G L Wilson]

Ah! Despair!That forlorn hope which is born out of over-expectations and greed!

I always expect the worst and am never disappointed.

[mazHur]

Is there a Heart, bereft of Love, which does not get disappointed but disappoints others??

[G L Wilson]

Is there a Heart, bereft of Love, which does not get disappointed but disappoints others??

I am not bereft of love. I am sorry that I am such a great disappointment.

[mazHur]

I am not bereft of love. I am sorry that I am such a great disappointment.

I can perceive that you are not bereft of love but in fact sprawling with
unregulated spirit of undirected love..... in a desert!:)

[G L Wilson]

I can perceive that you are not bereft of love but in fact sprawling with
unregulated spirit of undirected love..... in a desert!:)

You could say that I am bursting with love but no-one wishing to share it in acts of debauchery and lust.

[mazHur]

You could say that I am bursting with love but no-one wishing to share it in acts of debauchery and lust.

There should be something, something unusually grim and mysterious, with a person to being 'repulsed' by others. Assess yerself first before blaming others for your shortcomings!:)

[G L Wilson]

There should be something, something unusually grim and mysterious, with a person to being 'repulsed' by others. Assess yerself first before blaming others for your shortcomings!:)

"Hell is other people." Jean-Paul Sartre

[mazHur]

"Hell is other people." Jean-Paul Sartre

Since you seem to believe in ""hell'' it implies you also believe in 'another people', ie ''Heaven''!

[G L Wilson]

Since you seem to believe in ""hell'' it implies you also believe in 'another people', ie ''Heaven''!

Inside the heads of madmen is another people and another hell.

[mazHur]

Sometimes I fail to understand why some people are intrigued by the thought of 'hell' rather than 'heaven'?? What if there is none?? What if there are both with 'angels' waiting there to extend their 'hospitality' to the arrived ??

[TheChilly]

God and all about him is a lie. If He exists, the world doesn't; and if the world doesn't exist, then He doesn't. He is quite impossible. This is a theory at any rate. I care little for myself, it's others that worry me.

Or maybe human nature is a God in itself.

[G L Wilson]

Or maybe human nature is a God in itself.

"Man simply is", no nature explains him. If there is a God, he is as baffled as the rest of us on account of free will; and if he is baffled, he's not God; and if he is not baffled, he's not God.

[mazHur]

Or maybe human nature is a God in itself.

Interesting!
Wonder if humans are the image of God...and are the same as Him in traits. Here is some reference to those 'traits'....

http://www.faizani.com/articles/names.html

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God_in_Islam

Let's not blame God..


''Your life does not change when your boss changes, when your friends change, when your parents change, when your partner changes, when your company changes. Your life changes when YOU change, when you go beyond your limiting beliefs, when you realize that you are the only one responsible for your life.''

Author Unknown

[osho]

In fact it is really hard to say about God. Was this world created? How was it created? The universe has stars, planets, galaxies and all the stuff. If God is a creator from where God bring forth all else? Is there a very muscular God? First we must think what is the source of our ideas about God. Two sources: one what we hear from our elders and second we read in our scriptures. God is therefore in their words and or in the letters of scriptures. Are these sources reliable?

I often feel God exists but not the scriptural or personal God. God is consciousness and I cannot say God created the universe as some of our scriptural texts have described

[mazHur]

I often feel God exists but not the scriptural or personal God. God is consciousness and I cannot say God created the universe as some of our scriptural texts have described

Where did this ''consciousness'' come from?? Who made all this mumble jumble??? Who's running the 'show'??

[osho]

Where did this ''consciousness'' come from?? Who made all this mumble jumble??? Who's running the 'show'??

Maybe it is YOUR God

[mazHur]

Maybe it is YOUR God
my God or not, who and where is YOURS??

[osho]

my God or not, who and where is YOURS??

My God? I have no personal God

[mazHur]

My God? I have no personal God

God is always universal. Love may be personal.

"Faith goes up the stairs
Love has built
and looks out the window
which Hope has opened..."

- Charles Spurgeon

[G L Wilson]

"Faith goes up the stairs
Love has built
and looks out the window
which Hope has opened..."

And jumps.

[mazHur]

And jumps.

...and jumps
with a parachute of Faith on!!

" Adam che serahe buad w^a ruh chu mai
Qallb chu nai buad sada'e dar w^ai
Dani che buad adam-i-khaki Khayyam
Fanus-1-khiyall wa chiraghe dar wai." Omar Khayyam.

' Man is a cup, his soul the wine therein,
Flesh is a pipe, spirit the voice therein,
O Khayyam have you fathomed what man is ?
A magic lantern with a light therein." (Whinfield).

.........................



Matalab wafa ki ghair jafa nest kar eshan." Anwar-i-Suhbili.

' Faith does not company with worldly men.
From those habit is injustice, then
Expect not truth." Eastwick.

[G L Wilson]

...and jumps
with a parachute of Faith on!!

Haha. Touche. I admire the holy fool like nobody else.

[osho]

" Adam che serahe buad w^a ruh chu mai
Qallb chu nai buad sada'e dar w^ai
Dani che buad adam-i-khaki Khayyam
Fanus-1-khiyall wa chiraghe dar wai." Omar Khayyam.

' Man is a cup, his soul the wine therein,
Flesh is a pipe, spirit the voice therein,
O Khayyam have you fathomed what man is ?
A magic lantern with a light therein." (Whinfield).

Khayyam was very wise in saying that we have not been able to fathom what man is and what the universe is and to try fathom it we have invented Gods, religions and all the rest. In this make-believe world we are warring humans sheer for articulating our faith shadowing others'. Every faith has a God and I am confused which God I have to run after.

[mazHur]

" 'Al'alimu arafa 'Ijahila ra'innabu kana jahilan, ■wa'ljahilu la yarifa
'lallma I'ainnaliu ma kana 'aliman."

" The wise man understands the fool for he was once a fool himself, but
the fool does not understand the wise man because he was never wise."

Prov.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Rumi

" After all soul is linked to body

Though it in nowise resembles the body

The power of the light of the eye is mated with fat

The light of the heart is hidden in a drop of blood

Joy harbors in the kidneys and pain in the liver

The lamp of reason in the brains of the head.

These connections are not without a why and how

But reason is at a loss to understand the how." (Whinfield).

[G L Wilson]

" 'Al'alimu arafa 'Ijahila ra'innabu kana jahilan, ■wa'ljahilu la yarifa
'lallma I'ainnaliu ma kana 'aliman."

" The wise man understands the fool for he was once a fool himself, but
the fool does not understand the wise man because he was never wise."

Prov.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

It is not always wise to be utterly foolish but it is always foolish to be overly wise.

[mazHur]

Khayyam was very wise in saying that we have not been able to fathom what man is and what the universe is and to try fathom it we have invented Gods, religions and all the rest. In this make-believe world we are warring humans sheer for articulating our faith shadowing others'. Every faith has a God and I am confused which God I have to run after.

Hariki Maqamat 21.

" Keep to truth though it scorch thee with the fire of threatening, and
seek to please God ; for the most foolish of mankind is he who angers the
master and pleases the slave." (Chenery).


It is not always wise to be utterly foolish but it is always foolish to be overly wise.

"A hint sufficeth for the wise, but a thousand speeches profit not, the
heedless."
Arabic proverb.

[G L Wilson]

"A hint sufficeth for the wise, but a thousand speeches profit not, the
heedless."
Arabic proverb.

A chicken without its head runs everywhere.

[osho]

Hariki Maqamat 21.

" Keep to truth though it scorch thee with the fire of threatening, and
seek to please God ; for the most foolish of mankind is he who angers the
master and pleases the slave." (Chenery).

Is there a demarcation that alienates Master from Slave? I believe in unity in which master and slave live in arms

[mazHur]

Is there a demarcation that alienates Master from Slave? I believe in unity in which master and slave live in arms

In which world do you live??? Most of us are slaves of our desires!


A chicken without its head runs everywhere.

The different path of the one-eyed cow.
(Meaning: The fool strays from the safe path.)
Bengali Proverb

[G L Wilson]

The different path of the one-eyed cow.
(Meaning: The fool strays from the safe path.)
Bengali Proverb

Safety is in numbers.

[mazHur]

Safety is in numbers.

If 'safety were in numbers' bugs would be ruling the world!!

[osho]

In which world do you live??? Most of us are slaves of our desires!

Does it matter wherever I live? Can you do away with your desire? The desire of worshiping God, of alienating yourself from reality, of muddling yourself with so many scriptural trashes and the like.

[mazHur]

Does it matter wherever I live? Can you do away with your desire? The desire of worshiping God, of alienating yourself from reality, of muddling yourself with so many scriptural trashes and the like.

I have not so much desire as commonsense!!
Write down a 'scriptural trash' if you can and I will take you as my prophet!!


" The prophets chose the better part, futurity.
The foolish chose the worst, the world's fatuity.
Each bird will flock with birds of its own feather still
The **** well knows his mate and follows where she will."
Rumi/
Redhouse.

Well, I didn't know ''c**k' was a bad word appearing in the dictionaries all over!

[G L Wilson]

If 'safety were in numbers' bugs would be ruling the world!!

Bugs do rule the Earth, and I mean to squash them.

[mazHur]

Bugs do rule the Earth, and I mean to squash them.

Huh! Bugs without brains and a fish of scant water!!

If a fish of little water moves to a lot of water, that fish will jump around a lot.
Bengali proverb.

[G L Wilson]

Huh! Bugs without brains and a fish of scant water!!

If a fish of little water moves to a lot of water, that fish will jump around a lot.
Bengali proverb.

A worm in dirt wiggles a hole.

[mazHur]

A worm in dirt wiggles a hole.

A pig will eat his own poop!!

Pakistani proverb
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

And this one is for the sane and sober!!

Ghazzali.

" Up ! up ! only a little life is left, and the road before thee is long and
thou art immersed in illusion."
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

[G L Wilson]

A pig will eat his own poop!!

Pakistani proverb
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

A pig will feed on all kinds of slop.


And this one is for the sane and sober!!

Ghazzali.

" Up ! up ! only a little life is left, and the road before thee is long and
thou art immersed in illusion."
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Down, down, goes the worm into the earth, and releases a whole lot of contentment from its home.

[mazHur]

A pig will feed on all kinds of slop.


Only a pig-eater knows the taste of poor animal's blood!!

Down, down, goes the worm into the earth, and releases a whole lot of contentment from its home.

Down goes the worm
deep into the alley
enriching the place
letting rose sprout!!

[G L Wilson]

Only a pig hater can ban the Muppets.

Down, down, goes the worm
To dig up a corpse
So that it shall not rise
Even upon Halloween.

[mazHur]

makes a pig of him
sows farrow
pigs on, pigs on
and falls down in his sty
until the worm
guttles up the hog
and make him grunt
'never again, my lord,
the worm hurts!
he's on the pig's back

[G L Wilson]

makes a pig of him
sows farrow
pigs on, pigs on
and falls down in his sty
until the worm
guttles up the hog
and make him grunt
'never again, my lord,
the worm hurts!
he's on the pig's back

The maggots of unreason are manifold.

[mazHur]

The maggots of unreason are manifold.

He doesn't know me
He hasn't seen me
He doesn't like me
He doesn't trust me
He hates me
He cusses me
Yet he is obsessed
with my thought.
Talks about me all the time!
Why, is he crazy??
No, he's bereft of good sense
doesn't know good from bad
He is a child in the cradle
sucking his thumb
Unable to think
like the maggots of unreason
manifold!

[G L Wilson]

The child in the cradle goes wah.
He has such delicate ears.
To hear, it breaks his heart,
This poor poet, this poor man.
O the sweet sound of tender feelings,
They have vanished in bigotry.
The sweet child wonders
And then doesn't.

[mazHur]

A child is a child
even if he attained consciousness
only proper grooming will
let a tiny plant grow into a tree;
a fry into a whale.

everything is endemic
to earth,water or ether
but a child never knows
Until he's taught to understand
the Truth.
A wilding infests his brain
kills his spirit
devours his soul
makes him cry all the time
with no rhythm and rhyme
Like a dwindled weed
stealing food from others
the parasite spends his life.
fugacious and futile
he spends his days and nights
destiny have denied him real life
no roses for him!!

[G L Wilson]

O child grow tall and strong
Become not a stunted shrub.

[mazHur]

O child grow tall and strong
Become not a stunted shrub;
nor live like a pot plant all your life
come out in the fresh air, you grub!

[osho]

A child is a child
even if he attained consciousness
only proper grooming will
let a tiny plant grow into a tree;
a fry into a whale.

everything is endemic
to earth,water or ether
but a child never knows
Until he's taught to understand
the Truth.
A wilding infests his brain
kills his spirit
devours his soul
makes him cry all the time
with no rhythm and rhyme
Like a dwindled weed
stealing food from others
the parasite spends his life.
fugacious and futile
he spends his days and nights
destiny have denied him real life
no roses for him!!
Is this reply written in a verse form is your own composition? I like it

[mazHur]

Is this reply written in a verse form is your own composition? I like it

I wrote it.
Thanks very much for liking it.:)

[mazHur]

''God is also a God of absolute justice and therefore all sinners—no matter how small—must be judged, otherwise God wouldn't be God. Because God IS God, the just judgment of all sin is death; that is, spiritual death which is actually eternal separation from a holy and just God in the place the Bible calls hell, whatever and wherever that may be.''
The ACTS.

[G L Wilson]

Deep in the Bible,
a maggot in filth.

[mazHur]

Deep in the Bible,
a maggot in filth.

spewing filth...you!
Will lead you nowhere!

" One in whose head is conceit
Think not that he will ever listen to truth."
(Clarke).

[G L Wilson]

The serpent's is a mind full of lies.

[mazHur]

Beware, I discern a ''narrow thing in the grass''!!

[G L Wilson]

Beware, I discern a ''narrow thing in the grass''!!

Is it a rake or your brain?

[mazHur]

Is it a rake or your brain?

When will you grow up, boy,
To be a Man??

[mazHur]

Just for a change.....!!







ATHEIST IN THE WOODS

An atheist was walking through the woods.

'What majestic trees!
'What powerful rivers!
'What beautiful animals!
He said to himself.

Suddenly, he heard a rustling in the bushes behind him.

He turned to look . . . and saw a 7-foot grizzly bear charge towards him.


He ran as fast as he could along the path.
He looked over his shoulder & saw that the bear was closing on him ....

He looked over his shoulder again,
and the bear was even closer ....

and then ..... He tripped and fell.

Rolling over to pick himself up, he found the bear was right on top of him ......
reaching towards him with its left paw ...
and raising the right paw to strike ...


At that instant the Atheist cried out,
'Oh my God!'

Time Stopped ...
The bear froze ......
The forest was silent ....

A bright light shone upon the man,
and a voice came out of the sky ...

"You deny my existence for all these years,
you teach others I don't exist
and even credit creation to cosmic accident .....
Do you expect me to help you out of this predicament?"

"Am I to count you as a believer?"

The atheist looked directly into the light ....
"It would be hypocritical of me to suddenly ask you to treat me as a Christian now ...
but perhaps you could make the BEAR a Christian?"

... a pause ...
"Very well," said the voice ...


The light went out.
The sounds of the forest resumed ...

And the bear dropped his right arm ....
brought both paws together ....
bowed his head & spoke ...





"Lord, bless this food,
which I am about to receive.

[G L Wilson]

When will you grow up, boy,
To be a Man??

To be called a boy is the gravest insult in my culture.

[mazHur]

To be called a boy is the gravest insult in my culture.

In English literature it is not.
Take it that way, mister!!

[mazHur]

He Fooled Himself

“Be sure your sins will find you out.”the Bible

The story is told of a young actor who was trying to impress an important movie director. The actor wanted to send an expensive gift, but he didn't have the money, but he had an idea. If he could find a valuable vase which was already broken and get it at a very small cost, then he could mail it to the director. He would think it had gotten broken in the mail and would be impressed anyway.

So this actor went to an exclusive store and found a vase that had been broken into many pieces. It was just going to be thrown out, so he was able to get it at a very small cost. He told them to wrap it up and send it and gave them the address. He waited to hear from the director, but heard nothing for several days. Finally he sent a telegram: "Did vase arrive?" Shortly he received this response: "Vase arrived. But why was each piece wrapped separately?"2

As Abraham Lincoln said, “You may fool all the people some of the time, you can even fool some of the people all of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time.”

But with God we can never fool him any of the time. “Be sure your sins will find you out”—mine too!

Suggested prayer: "Dear God, deliver me from the sin of denial and trying to fool myself into justifying whatever wrong I want and choose to do—let alone trying to fool you. Thank you for hearing and answering my prayer. Gratefully in Jesus’ name, amen.”

1. Numbers 32:23 (KJV).
2. From Alan Smith’s Thought for the Day, http://www.tftd-online.com.
by Richard (Dick) Innes
<:))))><

[G L Wilson]

In English literature it is not.
Take it that way, mister!!

Has sodomy always been big where you are?

[mazHur]

Has sodomy always been big where you are?

Sodomy is universal...prehistoric.
Even wine is prohibited here by law, not to talk of ''higher fun', sodomy!

IF sodomy was fair
eating through the intestinal abyss
would have been allowed.
But God wished it not to be
yet sinners sin and in their whims
try to fool God!
While the God-fearing look at them with awe!
For this reason alone, it seems
God created this Universe!!
Maz

[G L Wilson]

IF sodomy was fair
eating through the intestinal abyss
would have been allowed.
But God wished it not to be
yet sinners sin and in their whims
try to fool God!
While the God-fearing look at them with awe!
For this reason alone, it seems
God created this Universe!!
Maz

Then God created the Universe for us to commit sin, is this right?

[mazHur]

Then God created the Universe for us to commit sin, is this right?

Read Canterbury Tales by Chaucer for enlightenment.

[G L Wilson]

Read Canterbury Tales by Chaucer for enlightenment.

Why don't you just answer the question?

[mazHur]

Why don't you just answer the question?

Is there something wrong with your cognitive ability?? Can't you read what I wrote??

I said God created everything....but ''sinners sin''....in their whims while ''While the God-fearing look at them with awe!''...
To sin is man's own act not endorsed either by God,Nature or common sense!!

[G L Wilson]

If God is all-powerful, why did he create a sinner?

[mazHur]

If God is all-powerful, why did he create a sinner?

your govt may be all powerful; your country's laws more powerful, yet crime
is committed. People wrong only on their own..similarly they sin because of their little 'will''!! But unlike govts or country laws which react quickly and immediately, God's mill grinds slowly but surely!!

[G L Wilson]

your govt may be all powerful; your country's laws more powerful, yet crime
is committed. People wrong only on their own..similarly they sin because of their little 'will''!! But unlike govts or country laws which react quickly and immediately, God's mill grinds slowly but surely!!

Are you a slave to this god?

[mazHur]

Are you a slave to this god?

Who isn't slave to Laws! Even a lion is a pussy cat in a cage..
God has given 'will' to humans....how can then humans be slaves to Him??
All living things are 'slaves' to air, food,water and sex; non-living things to their ' sensual stillness' and lack of 'motility'.

God has given humans a road map to live their lives, the same as your government, institutions, family and society gives you one. Try get out of their limits and feel the brunt. Why then believe the Creator, God, for being lesser??? If He's not important to you why is His name always on your lips??

If Moses and Jesus were there..... What would have
been their reaction to this????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq_Q3y4BvlM&feature=player_embedded

[YesNo]

Why then believe the Creator, God, for being lesser??? If He's not important to you why is His name always on your lips??

Good point!

[mazHur]

Playing God
Adam Rutherford meets a new creature created by American scientists – the spider-goat. It is part goat, part spider, and its milk can be used to create artificial spider’s web.

It is part of a new field of research, synthetic biology, with a radical aim: to break down nature into spare parts so that we can rebuild it however we please.

This technology is already being used to make bio-diesel to power cars. Other researchers are looking at how we might, one day, control human emotions by sending biological machines into our brains.

Watch the full documentary now


http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/playing-god/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TopDocumentaryFilms+%28Top+Do cumentary+Films+-+Watch+Free+Documentaries+Online%29

[G L Wilson]

What is God's point in creating an atheist?

[Darcy88]

G L WILSON IS BACK!

Welcome back Willy. If God created us he would have created along with us the possibility for atheism. If I was God I would have added to creation a few fat pinches of chance. I would make free men, not slaves.

[cafolini]

G L WILSON IS BACK!

Welcome back Willy. If God created us he would have created along with us the possibility for atheism. If I was God I would have added to creation a few fat pinches of chance. I would make free men, not slaves.

So you must think it's ultimately determined?

[Darcy88]

So you must think it's ultimately determined?

I'm a card-carrying determinist, Fate is the only God I recognize, but I'm not quite sure what you mean by this question Caf. I was saying if God created man then God would have created him free and able to err. Creating slaves would make for poor theatre.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Welcome back, G L!

[G L Wilson]

The problem of evil has never been answered fully by any one of those to which it is posed the most. The idea that God's only excuse is that he does not exist is met by a deep uncomprehending silence as if a twist in the tale is not permitted. "Everything's permitted." The only thing that stops us from anarchy is an obedience to human law and nothing else as is clearly shown by example.

[Darcy88]

The problem of evil has never been answered fully by any one of those to which it is posed the most. The idea that God's only excuse is that he does not exist is met by a deep uncomprehending silence as if a twist in the tale is not permitted. "Everything's permitted." The only thing that stops us from anarchy is an obedience to human law and nothing else as is clearly shown by example.

The ancient Greeks had a code of honour and decency and look at their gods. I understand the significance of the so called "death of God," but really, there was more than just God keeping us at least moderately in line for those two Christian millenniums. Look at the Chinese, they didn't have our God.

"Everything is permitted" only if we permit it, and its simple as that. Only a madman, a bull goose loon, would extend philosophical nihilism to practical nihilism. Is there really nothing good in this world? Of course there is. Even if at times we can't appreciate it we know its there. There's always love and beauty if nothing else. Imagine a world bereft of those two things and this world becomes by contrast "good."

[mazHur]

Evil is who Evil does
Why blame God??

[Buh4Bee]

God isn't will work with you, if you'll work with him. If you want to follow the rules then God will play.

[G L Wilson]

Evil is who Evil does
Why blame God??

Because it is supposed that God is omnipotent. As Stendhal said, "God's only excuse is that he does not exist."

[G L Wilson]

God isn't will work with you, if you'll work with him. If you want to follow the rules then God will play.

Explain that to the Jews.

[Paulclem]

:D You're back!

It's been a while GL.

[DarkAntigone]

The problem, people has taken God literally but there is actually more to it. Early human beings have been enlightened with their thinking and realizations that they can actually create beautiful ideas such as creating gods and goddesses and other allegories or symbols. They were enlightened so much that they appreciate every atom in the world

[Theunderground]

Ah,the enlightened savage myth.