Know thyself?

[G L Wilson]

God wouldn't know himself even if it paid him to do so.

The religio has a chronically unstable persona. What am I today? is the question that he or she asks every morning of himself or herself, and instead of answering the question himself or herself falls into the suicide of prayer. Thus, he or she wastes another day as a zombie. In this state, he or she is only fit to frighten children and political leaders. It is a sad day, indeed every day is sad that doesn't bring release from slavery.

[G L Wilson]

Know thyself? I am sick of myself.

[Drkshadow03]

God wouldn't know himself even if it paid him to do so.

The religio has a chronically unstable persona. What am I today? is the question that he or she asks every morning of himself or herself, and instead of answering the question himself or herself falls into the suicide of prayer. Thus, he or she wastes another day as a zombie. In this state, he or she is only fit to frighten children and political leaders. It is a sad day, indeed every day is sad that doesn't bring release from slavery.

Ah, pseudo-psychology. Gotta love it! :thumbsup:

[G L Wilson]

Ah, pseudo-psychology. Gotta love it! :thumbsup:

Psychology is not science.

[free]

God wouldn't know himself even if it paid him to do so.

The religio has a chronically unstable persona. What am I today? is the question that he or she asks every morning of himself or herself, and instead of answering the question himself or herself falls into the suicide of prayer. Thus, he or she wastes another day as a zombie. In this state, he or she is only fit to frighten children and political leaders. It is a sad day, indeed every day is sad that doesn't bring release from slavery.

I am not defending religion, but I've heard that repeating certain sentences of a prayer can put one into the state of mind-waves which can improve its abilities to work and make creative thoughts. Never tried it, though.

[YesNo]

I am not defending religion, but I've heard that repeating certain sentences of a prayer can put one into the state of mind-waves which can improve its abilities to work and make creative thoughts. Never tried it, though.
I've experimented with this technique and I think it does work, but I don't have any quantifiable evidence for it. But from a personal perspective, if it works, that's all I'm interested in.

The technique I'm referring to was described by Eknath Easwaran in "The Mantram Handbook". The mantra is that short portion of a prayer. It need be no longer than a divine name: Jesus, Rama, Allah, or some short phrase including that name.

It makes me wonder about the power of language.

[G L Wilson]

"The fool foldeth his hands together, and eateth his own flesh." Ecclesiastes

[Drkshadow03]

Psychology is not science.

Well, at least you're admitting nothing you said is remotely scientific. All sound and fury signifying nothing.

Although, you're wrong. Much psychology is science. It might not always be a rigorous science, but it's still a science.

[prickly_pete]

Didn't Shakespeare intend for "know thyself" to be taken ironically?

[G L Wilson]

Didn't Shakespeare intend for "know thyself" to be taken ironically?

Is Hamlet comical? Aren't all fools?

[G L Wilson]

Know thyself? How can you know anything else?

[Panglossian]

I prefer Unknow thyself. Rid self of all that so-called knowing. ~ Here's a (probably pointless) question: there is knowledge, but is there knowing?

[G L Wilson]

I prefer Unknow thyself. Rid self of all that so-called knowing. ~ Here's a (probably pointless) question: there is knowledge, but is there knowing?

Technically, no, there are no certain knowns.

[lieasleep]

Technically, no, there are no certain knowns.

"I think therefore I am." Is that a known?

[G L Wilson]

"I think therefore I am." Is that a known?

No, it is not a known and in fact it is very much disputed.

[ShoutGrace]

No, it is not a known and in fact it is very much disputed.

Can you expound on this? Which part of the phrase is disputed, on what grounds, and by whom?

[G L Wilson]

The 'I' could be part of a dream, then the 'I' would be imagined and not real. People that dispute Descartes also include A. J. Ayer and Jean-Paul Sartre, to name two. The existence of God qualifies the existence of man as an illusion; for if He exists, what is more real than God?

[ShoutGrace]

Something is still existant enough for the thought to exist, right? The thought "occurs." Whether it is in a dream, or we're just brains in vats and this world is something like the Matrix, or whatever ... something happens, and it directly involves "me" (whatever I am) ... this doesn't lead one to believe that one exists on your view?

[G L Wilson]

Something is still existant enough for the thought to exist, right? The thought "occurs." Whether it is in a dream, or we're just brains in vats and this world is something like the Matrix, or whatever ... something happens, and it directly involves "me" (whatever I am) ... this doesn't lead one to believe that one exists on your view?

If what you say were true, no, we wouldn't exist in any real sense. Life could be an illusion, it could very well be. But I would rather have the illusion than nothing at all.

[ShoutGrace]

Ah, okay. I'm not sure what to make of your idea of existing in a "real sense" but I understand where you're coming from. I myself think it is evident that when I think, something is occurring, at whatever level; indicating that "I" exist.

[G L Wilson]

Ah, okay. I'm not sure what to make of your idea of existing in a "real sense" but I understand where you're coming from. I myself think it is evident that when I think, something is occurring, at whatever level; indicating that "I" exist.

What if your thinking was not really yours, that you were merely the host of a parasite?

[G L Wilson]

At times we surprise ourselves because we don't know ourselves, and what would life be without surprises?

[ralfyman]

The question is not likely part of religious belief. And it's not just "religio" but people in general who have "chronically unstable persona."

[G L Wilson]

The question is not likely part of religious belief. And it's not just "religio" but people in general who have "chronically unstable persona."

The religious know everything, don't you know?

[ralfyman]

The religious know everything, don't you know?

Can you explain that point?

[G L Wilson]

Can you explain that point?

The Lord, their god, is their answer for everything, therefore they think that they know everything.

[Dude]

On the flip side though, it's possible they do talk to an omnipotent being that you have just never had the capacity for. Like a blind man trying to understand blue through words or sounds. Or a computer trying to understand the moral of a story stored within itself.

I'm not sure it's possible to ever really know though.


And to your main question, I think we're so complex, it's pretty impossible to define. All I am is my past experiences. But I can't put all that into something transferable like words or pictures. Well, right now I can't. I think someday though, we'll figure out a way to transcribe whole webs of neurons and insert them into other brains (essentially copying and pasting memories and thoughts into another's mind).

Then I'll carry around a disk, and when you ask me about myself, I'll just plug it into you and you'll know all my struggles, beliefs, and dreams.

[G L Wilson]

On the flip side though, it's possible they do talk to an omnipotent being that you have just never had the capacity for.

I've talked with God, unfortunately I was mad at the time.

[CowabungaChrist]

The Lord, their god, is their answer for everything, therefore they think that they know everything.

You are saying that because of my belief in God, that I believe myself capable of sharing his omniscience?

Come on now, I pray you can reason better than that.

[G L Wilson]

You are saying that because of my belief in God, that I believe myself capable of sharing his omniscience?

Come on now, I pray you can reason better than that.

Truth be told, atheism cannot be beaten for cranks and weirdos. No wonder no-one trusts us, I don't trust us.

[CowabungaChrist]

Truth be told, atheism cannot be beaten for cranks and weirdos. No wonder no-one trusts us, I don't trust us.

I have never met a person I didn't think was strange, and I associate a Ninja Turtle with Jesus Christ.

[G L Wilson]

I have never met a person I didn't think was strange, and I associate a Ninja Turtle with Jesus Christ.

I say that straight is the new strange.

[usman.khawar]

know thyself and you will know God.
one who recogonize himself recogonize God
If God like someone to close to Him, open someone's eye on oneself.

for better understanding i started a thread with name of " enemy within"

[G L Wilson]

know thyself and you will know God.
one who recogonize himself recogonize God
If God like someone to close to Him, open someone's eye on oneself.

I find the opposite to be true.

[usman.khawar]

G L Wilson i found you the most interesting person of this community :)

you said you found the opposite true.

kindly let me know, in reference of my above quotes, the truth you found and how ?

[G L Wilson]

know thyself and you will know God.
one who recogonize himself recogonize God
If God like someone to close to Him, open someone's eye on oneself.

To know and love thyself one must examine. To know and love God one must not examine.
One who recognises himself cannot recognise God.
If God likes someone, He closes an eye.

I have come to know this only now.

[Ecurb]

"If anyone wants to find himself, he must lose himself." -- Jesus

[G L Wilson]

"If anyone wants to find himself, he must lose himself." -- Jesus

That is absolutely true, but I wouldn't recommend it.

[Ecurb]

That is absolutely true, but I wouldn't recommend it.

That is because you are careful and unadventerous. New territory is explored only by those who are often lost.

[G L Wilson]

That is because you are careful and unadventerous. New territory is explored only by those who are often lost.

I have gone mad once and wish never again to be mad.

[Ecurb]

I have gone mad once and wish never again to be mad.

Good plan.

[libernaut]

the fact that psychology, namely in the field of psychiatry, has become a science is tragically disgusting to me. Just because a thing is a science doesn't make it right. The entire aim of psychiatry is to make someones "self" as you say become something other than that "self". Tainting the ego to be something unknown as if to make "knowing thyself" incomprehensible. Anti depressants, anti psychotics, anti anxiety, ad nauseam. The number of people on these things is staggering as pharmaceutical companies bring in the big $ off of Licensed Pushers. How can one know thyself when they are psycho-analyzed in a neo freaudian culture day by day, with medications melting away the frost of who they once were into a fragmented past of memories that drift further away in a river of that water which was once frozen solid?

Know Thyself, above the gates of the Greek Oracle of Apollo at Delphi. But why? because I am all I've got?

"Ego", the Latin word for "I", has been transformed into its present form in western society with all its negative connotations. Egoism, Egotism, Egomania Etc. Etc. Etc. Tragic.

Was there a reversal of morals somewhere in the timeline of history? There must have been... it only makes sense. But why? Were the ancients wrong and the modernists correct? I don't know. I'm rambling. My apologies.

[G L Wilson]

the fact that psychology, namely in the field of psychiatry, has become a science is tragically disgusting to me. Just because a thing is a science doesn't make it right. The entire aim of psychiatry is to make someones "self" as you say become something other than that "self". Tainting the ego to be something unknown as if to make "knowing thyself" incomprehensible. Anti depressants, anti psychotics, anti anxiety, ad nauseam. The number of people on these things is staggering as pharmaceutical companies bring in the big $ off of Licensed Pushers. How can one know thyself when they are psycho-analyzed in a neo freaudian culture day by day, with medications melting away the frost of who they once were into a fragmented past of memories that drift further away in a river of that water which was once frozen solid?

Know Thyself, above the gates of the Greek Oracle of Apollo at Delphi. But why? because I am all I've got?

"Ego", the Latin word for "I", has been transformed into its present form in western society with all its negative connotations. Egoism, Egotism, Egomania Etc. Etc. Etc. Tragic.

Was there a reversal of morals somewhere in the timeline of history? There must have been... it only makes sense. But why? Were the ancients wrong and the modernists correct? I don't know. I'm rambling. My apologies.

The frosting may have been knocked off me, libernaut, but I am still delicious.

[libernaut]

it is kind of like a slurpee thats been sitting around for days for me and it is all warm and theres no ice left... maybe that's a better metaphor

[dwdean]

I have gone mad once and wish never again to be mad.

how so?

[G L Wilson]

it is kind of like a slurpee thats been sitting around for days for me and it is all warm and theres no ice left... maybe that's a better metaphor

Then I must be a slurpee with a couple of bugs in me. It sounds disgusting but it really is not.

[usman.khawar]

To know and love thyself one must examine. To know and love God one must not examine.
One who recognises himself cannot recognise God.
If God likes someone, He closes an eye.

I have come to know this only now.

i really didnt understand a bit what you are trying so say!!

[G L Wilson]

In loving God one must be closed to doubt, in loving another one must be open.
He who is a creation of himself has no other God.
Love is blind.

[usman.khawar]

In loving God one must be closed to doubt, in loving another one must be open.
He who is a creation of himself has no other God.
Love is blind.

m sorry to say its very hard to understand ur point of concern. :(

[usman.khawar]

"If anyone wants to find himself, he must lose himself." -- Jesus

nice quote. why not we should find some correlation between jesus other quotation " know thyself and you will know God" ..?

just assume for a while there is a God who have started all these universes and earth with His intention.

its His intention/order/wish which is applying everywhere resulting in happenings. now what i think that our self ( the packet of instincts, wish, intention) try to stand before what is coming from upword planing.

. so i beleive as much difference is low as much the frustration would be low. in other words if i have to define frustration/depression/anger etc , then i would say

" Frustration is the difference between the two plans. Plan of Lord and plan of self ."

isnt like a quote ? :)

[G L Wilson]

nice quote. why not we should find some correlation between jesus other quotation " know thyself and you will know God" ..?

just assume for a while there is a God who have started all these universes and earth with His intention.

its His intention/order/wish which is applying everywhere resulting in happenings. now what i think that our self ( the packet of instincts, wish, intention) try to stand before what is coming from upword planing.

. so i beleive as much difference is low as much the frustration would be low. in other words if i have to define frustration/depression/anger etc , then i would say

" Frustration is the difference between the two plans. Plan of Lord and plan of self ."

isnt like a quote ? :)

Nice logic - shame about the inference.

[usman.khawar]

Nice logic - shame about the inference.

if i gave nice logic then should i not expect the answer in some logical way?

"shame about the inference ? " shame about the interference. :)

[G L Wilson]

In logic where you start is where you finish.

[usman.khawar]

In logic where you start is where you finish.

well :)
m actually waiting for the comments of Ecurb who posted a very nice quote of jesus christ. so that we can stick to the topic which u have started.

[G L Wilson]

well :)
m actually waiting for the comments of Ecurb who posted a very nice quote of jesus christ. so that we can stick to the topic which u have started.

Is there not a danger in finding thyself by losing thyself? Are you not in danger of losing that which is most precious, your mind?

[usman.khawar]

Is there not a danger in finding thyself by losing thyself? Are you not in danger of losing that which is most precious, your mind?

No m not afraid. the question is not finding or losing. its all about recogonising. as i have explained earlier, mind is not thyself. self is a seperate entity, it has 5 spies, that are 5 senses. with the help of mind know self. in the article there is most beautiful understanding of self, i mean thread with name " enemy within". psychology main aim is to convert bad self into good self for the betterment of society. they read self for this vary basic reason. but i beleive, now, where psychology ends up for the understanding of self from there mystic's understanding starts. mystic try to enslave his self in the way of lord. mind is a rider and self is the horse. through mind one can overcome/trained/trim/refine the horse. if a person has to go a long distance then its necessary to overcome horse to make the journey comfortable. Lord declared self as His enemy says whether self is good or bad in bothways its against Lord. long explanation needed but to save time to type i recomend anyone who want to have breif explanation of self, its origin, its working, then read carefully the above mentioned thread. link is given below.
http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63002

[ralfyman]

The Lord, their god, is their answer for everything, therefore they think that they know everything.

Some state an event is God's will but cannot give reasons. That's not the same as knowing everything.