The S-word in The Divine Comedy

[Venerable Bede]

While reading Canto XVIII of Dante's Inferno I came across two uses of the s-word. This sort of seems out of character with the rest of the epic, as the rest of it is very lofty and dignified. I guess maybe Dante is really trying to emphasize the vulgarity of the punishment? Or is the translator (Mark Musa) taking some liberty with the original Italian? It seems strange to me that Dante would use vulgarity especially since his model was Virgil, who I don't recall as ever using profanity in the Aeneid.

I know that other medieval authors used vulgar language at times as well, such as Chaucer, but when he used it, it was in keeping with the bawdy nature of the Miller's Tale, so it didn't seem so out of place.

Thoughts on this?

[mayneverhave]

While reading Canto XVIII of Dante's Inferno I came across two uses of the s-word. This sort of seems out of character with the rest of the epic, as the rest of it is very lofty and dignified. I guess maybe Dante is really trying to emphasize the vulgarity of the punishment? Or is the translator (Mark Musa) taking some liberty with the original Italian? It seems strange to me that Dante would use vulgarity especially since his model was Virgil, who I don't recall as ever using profanity in the Aeneid.

I know that other medieval authors used vulgar language at times as well, such as Chaucer, but when he used it, it was in keeping with the bawdy nature of the Miller's Tale, so it didn't seem so out of place.

Thoughts on this?

Dante's language is fitted in appropriateness to whatever he is describing; it's no accident. When describing the vile, repulsive, and vulgar acts (and their appropriate punishments) of the various inhabitants of hell the language is appropriately vulgar. Conversely, when describing the lofty heights of the heavens and the more noble souls of purgatory, the language is appropriately lofty.

[Cunninglinguist]

The word "merda" has the same effect in Italian as does the s-word in English. All the translations I have read translate merda into the s-word, bar Longfellow's, which uses the word "filth." Although merda only appears once in the Petrocchi text, so Musa may very well be exaggerating the effect a bit.

Anyways, there is worse yet to come. For example, at the end of Canto 21 a demon, named wormwood/malacoda, makes "a trumpet of his rump;" sometimes a_s or a_shole is translated instead of rump.

In Purgatorio Dante also uses some baby-talk words like "mamma."



But why should you expect Dante to let traditional standards get in the way of the effect he was trying to produce? Indeed, in style Dante hardly heeds the cultural, academic, and classical artifacts; he writes in Italian instead of Latin, and the brevity of his work is quite out-of-line with the characteristic discursive rambling of most Medieval literature. In many ways the fact that he uses such vulgarities exemplifies what makes him such a remarkable poet.

[David Lurie]

The word "merda" has the same effect in Italian as does the s-word in English.

I could almost (dis)agree on this :sosp: but it wouldn't matter, what matters here is the effect the word produced in Italy at the time of Dante while the effect it produces today is completely non-relevant.
The case of "ed elli avea del cul fatto trombetta" that you mention from canto XXI doesn't play in the same league of "vidi un col capo sì di merda lordo, che non parea s'era laico o cherco" - in the first case we are in the realm of comic literature - which was so en vogue in Dante's time, especially in his native Tuscany - from the little bit of translation you have reported it seems the funny character of it got lost in translation (difficult job for the translator: half of the comic job here is performed by the childish word "trombetta") in the case of canto XVIII probably Dante meant to shock the reader or at least the fact that he uses alliteration - "merda lordo" - could be an indication of such intention, can we assume that he chose alliteration because "merda" by itself wouldn't have had enough power to shock his 14th century readers? has the translator managed to preserve this alliteration?

[Venerable Bede]

The word "merda" has the same effect in Italian as does the s-word in English. All the translations I have read translate merda into the s-word, bar Longfellow's, which uses the word "filth." Although merda only appears once in the Petrocchi text, so Musa may very well be exaggerating the effect a bit.

Good to know; I wouldn't want to think that the translator was adding unwanted meaning to the text.



But why should you expect Dante to let traditional standards get in the way of the effect he was trying to produce? Indeed, in style Dante hardly heeds the cultural, academic, and classical artifacts; he writes in Italian instead of Latin, and the brevity of his work is quite out-of-line with the characteristic discursive rambling of most Medieval literature. In many ways the fact that he uses such vulgarities exemplifies what makes him such a remarkable poet.

That is a good point. I hadn't considered the fact that he is writing in Italian instead of the scholarly Latin so he's not really following the rules very closely.



Anyways, there is worse yet to come. For example, at the end of Canto 21 a demon, named wormwood/malacoda, makes "a trumpet of his rump;" sometimes a_s or a_shole is translated instead of rump.

Ah yes, I just read that scene today. It's very effective and really adds to the emphasis on the grotesque attributes of the demons.


I actually really admire Dante's use of vulgar language to create the grimy, torturous world that is his Inferno. The farting demons were also very effective in emphasizing their grotesque nature.

[libernaut]

I read it in a number of translations and never found the S-Word.

[Cunninglinguist]

in the first case we are in the realm of comic literature

I'm not sure what you're implying by this, since a "comedy" was defined and understood quite differently in the 14th century than it is today. In any case, the point is that we shouldn't be all that shocked that he did what he did.


in the case of canto XVIII probably Dante meant to shock the reader or at least the fact that he uses alliteration - "merda lordo" - could be an indication of such intention, can we assume that he chose alliteration because "merda" by itself wouldn't have had enough power to shock his 14th century readers? has the translator managed to preserve this alliteration?

The effects of the two passages are (supposed to be) of different categories, but in that they are surprising to the modern reader, they can be compared.

The question of Dante's intention is fairly difficult to answer, since there is considerable debate as to who his intended audience was. I'm not of the opinion that Dante intended to "shock" his original audience. That he was a remarkably candid and unconventional writer would have been established to an educated 14th century audience fairly quickly. On the other hand, this fact is not so obvious to modern readers; so what seems out of place now would have been appreciated quite differently then. Moreover, if the reader has read De vulgari eloquentia prior to reading the Comedy, Dante's use of language would be to no surprise at all.


I read it in a number of translations and never found the S-Word.

The only translations I can think of off the top of my head that don't use it are the Longfellow and the Singleton translation...But if you're not referencing the Hollander translation (which does use it) then I'm not sure you know which translation(s) you should be reading anyways.

[ralfyman]

I think he wrote it for common folk. I remember reading one account, about how his cantos were copied, passed around, and read aloud in market places.

[Alexander III]

I think he wrote it for common folk. I remember reading one account, about how his cantos were copied, passed around, and read aloud in market places.

I think you are confusing him with Ariosto

[Cunninglinguist]

I think he wrote it for common folk. I remember reading one account, about how his cantos were copied, passed around, and read aloud in market places.

There's one account of an illiterate man memorizing the entire thing; but it's still difficult to say. A number of the passages (especially in paradise and, to a lesser extent, purgatory) would require the typical 14th century medieval 'Italian' education to fully and properly understand...and since this is the case, they're rather abstruse to many modern readers and, we can guess, that they were rather abstruse to the uneducated of his time. Perhaps he was writing for the gamut (the fact that he chose to write in an Italian vernacular seems to suggest so), but some of the parts certainly wouldn't be comprehensible to the gamut.

[JuniperWoolf]

This sort of seems out of character with the rest of the epic, as the rest of it is very lofty and dignified.

Even when the demon shoves a trumpet up his ***?

[Gilliatt Gurgle]

I am currently reading The Inferno, but not quite there. I am nearly at the end of Canto XIII. We'll see how Longfellow treats that line.

.

[Venerable Bede]

Even when the demon shoves a trumpet up his ***?

I hadn't read that part yet.

[JuniperWoolf]

It's right when Dante and Virgil leave that big group of demons and the lead demon instructs his underlings to make sure they have a safe passage. I forget what circle it's in, but it's the one where people boil in tar and the demons pick them up by the nose with big forks if they aren't careful. The main demon, when his underlings are walking away, blows a trumpet with his ***.

[Venerable Bede]

Oh yeah, I've read it now; I meant that when I said that the work seemed lofty I hadn't got that far yet. Now that I've finished Inferno, I agree that it can be crude.