Atheist fiction?

[DanteAlexander]

Could anyone recommend to me some good books involving atheism? I don't mean the typical essay trying to explain why there is no god, because those bore me.. I just find atheism, as a theme, very interesting, and I don't know of any fiction where it is a focal point of the story. If someone could help me find something like that, I would appreciate it.

[Dodo25]

I'm writing one, but even if I manage to get it published (unlikely) it'll take years to come out.

In the meantime, I have some suggestions, but unfortunately, so far I haven't come across a book that REALLY deals with atheism... So don't expect too much.

The first suggestion is atheism portrayed by a Christian author. This sounds horribly biased and initially I couldn't imagine it working out, but actually the author I'm talking about did a pretty amazing job. 'The Brothers Karamazov' by Dostoevsky deals with both faith and atheism. Since the book is old, it's not about 'modern atheism' so probably not really what you're looking for, but still worth mentioning anyway. Though I wouldn't read it if you don't like 'classics', it's really long. But not boring, and really deep actually.

Then there's a very new book by Rebecca Goldstein called '36 Arguments for the Existence of God: A work of of Fiction'. This one deals with modern atheism, and this quite directly. However, it also portrays religion in a good light, the main character, a writer, is dubbed 'the atheist with a soul'. It kinda seeks to find 'religious impulses' in things we don't associate with religion (i.e. relationships or mentors). I think the book is interesting, but for my taste it didn't really deal with the most fundamental philosophical questions or with the controversy between religion and science (well, not enough at least, there is a chapter-long debate on whether God exists). Addtionally, I didn't really like the diction and the setting, it was too 'pretentiously academical' for me, but that's probably a personal thing. I would recommend it though if you're interested in atheism, it definitely is interesting and sometimes pretty funny.

'His Dark Materials' by Philip Pullman isn't directly about atheism, but it's been called the atheist equivalent of the 'Narnia' series. Instead of following dogma and submitting to authority's will, the characters in this trilogy have to make their own destiny and they actually fight against the church, some of the angels and even God himself. The book is about free will, growing up and becoming responsible for one's actions. Technically it's a book for teenagers, but it has so many deeper themes and allusions that it's well worth reading for adults too.

'Catch-22' by Joseph Heller is the funniest book I've ever read, it's mainly about war, but it has some well-developed atheistic themes. The pastor of the company turns into an atheist for instance. This one is a must-read, if you haven't read it go to a library or buy it in a bookstore.

And finally there's 'Saturday' by Ian McEwan. It's about a neuro-surgeon with a rational, materialistic worldview. Atheism itself isn't directly mentioned, but the book is about 'consciousness' (from a scientific point of view) and the aftermath of 9/11. It isn't my favorite book by McEwan but it's pretty good.

Those are the books I've read that contain atheistic themes. I've also heard of some books with gay teenagers struggling in a Christian environment and eventually turning atheist, but I haven't read any of these. Maybe you can track them down with google...

Edit: I just remembered that someone once highly recommended the following book to me, but I haven't read it yet because I don't really like YA books: http://www.amazon.com/Godless-National-Peoples-Literature-Awards/dp/0689862784

[pigeonweather]

I have one! It's called 'Missy Tonight' and it deals directly with atheism - it's also available for free online and in every ebook format from Smashwords - http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/6031

The blurb:
These days it seems like everyone is cashing in on the New Atheism craze, except for lifelong unbeliever Alan Musted. What’s a portable toilet dispatcher to do? Crash the party, that’s what! Join Alan and his friends and enemies in this ground-breaking work of “atheist pulp fiction”

I wrote it (and its companion story, "Orange Car with Stripes") partly because there's very little out there, and hardly anything at all with a sense of humor or any real gumption (to use an old-fashioned term).

[mal4mac]

'His Dark Materials' by Philip Pullman isn't directly about atheism, but it's been called the atheist equivalent of the 'Narnia' series. Instead of following dogma and submitting to authority's will, the characters in this trilogy have to make their own destiny and they actually fight against the church, some of the angels and even God himself. The book is about free will, growing up and becoming responsible for one's actions. Technically it's a book for teenagers, but it has so many deeper themes and allusions that it's well worth reading for adults too.

I read it, recently, as an adult and didn't enjoy the experience very much. It's definitely for kids, although I wouldn't even give it to a kid. The themes and allusions are deep, but aren't explored in any depth. I agree there is nothing directly about atheism! It doesn't have the obvious Christian allusions found in the Narnia series, but you can say that about many novels.

I agree with your recommendations for 'Saturday' and 'Catch 22', two books definitely on my "re-read" list.

[Apollo]

Well the existentialists famously lived in a world without God or a definite meaning. The novels of Albert Camus and Sartre are amusing. They denied they were existentialists I think. But the important thing is their interesting works are about an atheistic worldview that denies nihilism.

James Joyce's alter-ego becomes an atheist in 'Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man'. He slowly turns away from a religious life and embraces life as an artist. I really recommend that one. In Joyce's 'Ulysses' Leopold Bloom (the protagonist) is an atheist and muses over religious ceremonies and procedures. He also muses over everything else though.

These books aren't directly about atheism. But I would call them atheistic literature. Most of the 20th century's classics were written by atheists. And finally 'Waiting for Godot' is quite amusing as well. Some people say it's about the absence of God..

[lobanw]

Catch 22 and Missy Tonight were both ones I was going to suggest but I got beat to it :) If you happen to be near a library with a wider, historical selection then you are more likely to find the real in detail, darker information that some modern day covers up. Hope you find a book that has everything you are looking for in it :)

[Trever J Bennett]

Could anyone recommend to me some good books involving atheism? I don't mean the typical essay trying to explain why there is no god, because those bore me.. I just find atheism, as a theme, very interesting, and I don't know of any fiction where it is a focal point of the story. If someone could help me find something like that, I would appreciate it.

Literally anything by Kurt Vonnegut. Slapstick comes to mind.

[libernaut]

not sure if it is what you are looking for, only appeals to the few: Thus Spoke Zarathustra by Frederick Nietzsche

[G L Wilson]

The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, the Unbeliever. It's fantasy, it might be right what you are looking for.

[Adam F]

I actually found this thread, and forum, while exploring ways to market an atheist novella I just published. It is called THE GOD KILLER, and tells the story of a warrior whose job is to assassinate gods who have outlived their use to mankind. I think it's a really enjoyable read for anyone who, like me, has ever wished they could actually debate the great deities of the world and call them out on their many hypocrisies.

If anybody wants to take a look, it's available on paperback on Amazon, and Kindle for just $0.99. Forgive my plug!

http://www.amazon.com/The-God-Killer-ebook/dp/B006FQL9WG/

Glad to have found this community!

[cafolini]

Could anyone recommend to me some good books involving atheism? I don't mean the typical essay trying to explain why there is no god, because those bore me.. I just find atheism, as a theme, very interesting, and I don't know of any fiction where it is a focal point of the story. If someone could help me find something like that, I would appreciate it.

There is no such thing. Atheism is a philosophical platform that benefits theists the most. They thrive on it. If there were no atheists, the other two stooges, the agnostic and the theist would be even more boring.

[JuniperWoolf]

There is no such thing. Atheism is a philosophical platform that benefits theists the most. They thrive on it. If there were no atheists, the other two stooges, the agnostic and the theist would be even more boring.

That's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.

Anyway, I'd recommend Of Human Bondage.

[BienvenuJDC]

There is no such thing. Atheism is a philosophical platform that benefits theists the most. They thrive on it. If there were no atheists, the other two stooges, the agnostic and the theist would be even more boring.


That's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.


I agree, that is a ridiculous notion.

If you would be interested in something a little more nonsensical, I'd suggest Douglas Adams.

[Varenne Rodin]

Science fiction is often full of atheists, and has been written by some great atheists and "agnostics." Philip K. Dick wrote 'Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?' It's the story, partly, for the movie 'Blade Runner.' Those replicants, their creator, the futuristic world they live in; it's all a beautiful symphony without a god. He also wrote 'A Scanner Darkly' and my favorite from him, 'The Man in the High Castle.' I don't know if they are specifically about atheism, but the struggle is frequently mentioned; the characters questioning why they exist and why they are capable of free will or restrained by the will of others. Good stuff.

Isaac Asimov is another great science fiction writer. He's one of the most brilliant physicists the world has ever known. He has written many many books. 'Origins' might be a good place to start. Without giving too much away, it's about how we can predict various outcomes of the physical universe using mathematics, and the zealots and corporate empires that fight against wisdom and patterns in history, to their own destruction. It's set in multiple places in space and time. There are well drawn characters and futurey actiony sequences and etc. Lovely scenery at times. It definitely talks about the persecution of atheists, scientists, geniuses. I have been told by some that it is not "light reading" but I got through it fine and I'm just a girl.

As an answer to the complex I'll mention Stephen King's Dark Tower series. The books by themselves have little to do with atheism, but the arc basically displays something like reincarnation. It's very very agnostic. Alternate realities and dimensions sort of layered on top of each other, connected to this tower. Interweaving the lives of people from different points and places in time. Agnostics, atheists and Buddhists I know have liked these books. Christians have called them sacrilegious (always a good label to me).

Lastly and bestly (I probably should have listed it first), 'The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy' by Douglas Adams. Some call it the atheist bible. It's the most fictiony of the fiction in this post. It's also the most atheist. Christians should read it too and lighten up. Best advice in the book, "Don't panic." ;)

[Varenne Rodin]

I agree, that is a ridiculous notion.

If you would be interested in something a little more nonsensical, I'd suggest Douglas Adams.

You have read Douglas Adams?! Ha. I'm completely baffled by that. Save the conversation for an appropriate thread, but just wow.

[cafolini]

Science fiction is often full of atheists, and has been written by some great atheists and "agnostics." Philip K. Dick wrote 'Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?' It's the story, partly, for the movie 'Blade Runner.' Those replicants, their creator, the futuristic world they live in; it's all a beautiful symphony without a god. He also wrote 'A Scanner Darkly' and my favorite from him, 'The Man in the High Castle.' I don't know if they are specifically about atheism, but the struggle is frequently mentioned; the characters questioning why they exist and why they are capable of free will or restrained by the will of others. Good stuff.

Isaac Asimov is another great science fiction writer. He's one of the most brilliant physicists the world has ever known. He has written many many books. 'Origins' might be a good place to start. Without giving too much away, it's about how we can predict various outcomes of the physical universe using mathematics, and the zealots and corporate empires that fight against wisdom and patterns in history, to their own destruction. It's set in multiple places in space and time. There are well drawn characters and futurey actiony sequences and etc. Lovely scenery at times. It definitely talks about the persecution of atheists, scientists, geniuses. I have been told by some that it is not "light reading" but I got through it fine and I'm just a girl.

As an answer to the complex I'll mention Stephen King's Dark Tower series. The books by themselves have little to do with atheism, but the arc basically displays something like reincarnation. It's very very agnostic. Alternate realities and dimensions sort of layered on top of each other, connected to this tower. Interweaving the lives of people from different points and places in time. Agnostics, atheists and Buddhists I know have liked these books. Christians have called them sacrilegious (always a good label to me).

Lastly and bestly (I probably should have listed it first), 'The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy' by Douglas Adams. Some call it the atheist bible. It's the most fictiony of the fiction in this post. It's also the most atheist. Christians should read it too and lighten up. Best advice in the book, "Don't panic." ;)

Regardless of the references you give, I haven't come across an atheist who considers his atheism fictional or tries to show it to be so.

[Varenne Rodin]

Regardless of the references you give, I haven't come across an atheist who considers his atheism fictional or tries to show it to be so.

No one said atheism was fictional. Maybe you should reread the posts. This is fiction with atheists and/or written by atheists. Atheists in fictional settings, or fictional characters abandoning beliefs in fictional settings. Do you understand what fiction is?

[cafolini]

No one said atheism was fictional. Maybe you should reread the posts. This is fiction with atheists and/or written by atheists. Atheists in fictional settings, or fictional characters abandoning beliefs in fictional settings. Do you understand what fiction is?

I think you have to learn how to read. The original question was about fiction involving atheism.
You do a lot of fiction here, but you can't see atheism as fictional. What about the Russian atheists? Did they ever saw it as fiction? Definitely not.

And tell me something. When we print "in God we trust," in the dollar bill. Is that fiction compared to what it would be if we trusted you?

[Varenne Rodin]

I think you have to learn how to read. The original question was about fiction involving atheism.
You do a lot of fiction here, but you can't see atheism as fictional. What about the Russian atheists? Did they ever saw it as fiction? Definitely not.

And tell me something. When we print "in God we trust," in the dollar bill. Is that fiction compared to what it would be if we trusted you?

Are you being confrontational for the sake of being confrontational? I hope not. I don't see any indicators that anyone here sees atheism as fiction. No one said anything like that. Your comments don't make sense within the context of the discussion. I hope no one prints anything about me on any money. If they did, you're asking me if that would be fiction? I have no idea. Someone asked if there were any fictional books with atheist themes. There are. I apologize if this is a problem for you, but it has nothing to do with me. :)

[BienvenuJDC]

I think that the original post was talking about fiction that considered atheism in a general sense. Although I have my own considerations of atheism, I understood the poster's intent (or thought I did). I would consider the Chronicles of Narnia as Christian fiction even though I don't consider Christianity as fiction. This thread doesn't need to become a debate. I can enjoy the works of Douglas Adams (and I hope that there aren't any literary snobs that are ready to pounce on me for reading Adams) without spoiling it with my view of atheism. Please...can we keep with civility here?

[cafolini]

Are you being confrontational for the sake of being confrontational? I hope not. I don't see any indicators that anyone here sees atheism as fiction. No one said anything like that. Your comments don't make sense within the context of the discussion. I hope no one prints anything about me on any money. If they did, you're asking me if that would be fiction? I have no idea. Someone asked if there were any fictional books with atheist themes. There are. I apologize if this is a problem for you, but it has nothing to do with me. :)

With all due civility, the themes used by known atheists are not themes that have not been handled by theists or agnostics. Atheists do not have a monopoly on science fiction or whatever they write because of what they think about it or how they paint it.

[Varenne Rodin]

I didn't say they did. Maybe you're addressing sock puppet Varenne. Peace. :)

[Varenne Rodin]

I think that the original post was talking about fiction that considered atheism in a general sense. Although I have my own considerations of atheism, I understood the poster's intent (or thought I did). I would consider the Chronicles of Narnia as Christian fiction even though I don't consider Christianity as fiction. This thread doesn't need to become a debate. I can enjoy the works of Douglas Adams (and I hope that there aren't any literary snobs that are ready to pounce on me for reading Adams) without spoiling it with my view of atheism. Please...can we keep with civility here?

I wasn't giving you a hard time for reading Adams, Bien. It's surprising to me that someone can come away from reading Adams with their faith unshaken. Your faith must be very strong. That's all. No worries.

[cafolini]

I didn't say they did. Maybe you're addressing sock puppet Varenne. Peace. :)

I wouldn't do that because I intend to win a good one. Peace and felicity.:idea:

[BienvenuJDC]

I wasn't giving you a hard time for reading Adams, Bien. It's surprising to me that someone can come away from reading Adams with their faith unshaken. Your faith must be very strong. That's all. No worries.

My response wasn't toward you. It was to others. I didn't think that Adams presented anything that would shake my faith. It's fiction. Just like I don't think that Lewis' Narnia writings would provide anything that would establish faith (unless you were looking for that). There first has to be the desire of the will.

[Darcy88]

When I hear the phrase "atheist fiction" I immediately think of Dostoyevsky's Demons. Its a masterpiece. Stavrogin and Kirilov will leave you pondering for weeks.

[JCamilo]

Just a thing, Philip Dick is not an atheist and often his books dealt with the search of spiritual things - like the soul which would define humanity - because those are his own worries. He was kind off close to a brilliant new wave mystic than atheist.

[Varenne Rodin]

Just a thing, Philip Dick is not an atheist and often his books dealt with the search of spiritual things - like the soul which would define humanity - because those are his own worries. He was kind off close to a brilliant new wave mystic than atheist.

Oh, definitely, but most of the characters in Blade Runner (electric sheep) meet my definition of atheists. You could say they come close enough to spirituality to be agnostics, but even then I think they're much more fatalistic. Almost nihilists. The struggle over a soul isn't just a religious thing.

[Varenne Rodin]

The whole "tears in rain" thing is very much in line with atheism, for example. I don't want to give spoilers in case anyone never saw Blade Runner, but there is obvious detailed realization that the characters have been lied to about who and what they are. There is a bitterness over mortality and a "maker". There is a letting go of that maker relationship and a resignation to reality as it is.

Again, as an atheist, I don't feel the need to say there is nothing but what we see. It doesn't make me spiritual or mystic to say that I only know one reality.

[JuniperWoolf]

I think you have to learn how to read. The original question was about fiction involving atheism.
You do a lot of fiction here, but you can't see atheism as fictional. What about the Russian atheists? Did they ever saw it as fiction? Definitely not.

I think they mean a fictional story in which atheism is a central theme (duh).

[JCamilo]

Oh, definitely, but most of the characters in Blade Runner (electric sheep) meet my definition of atheists. You could say they come close enough to spirituality to be agnostics, but even then I think they're much more fatalistic. Almost nihilists. The struggle over a soul isn't just a religious thing.

You can even make up for skeptical world, but the whole thing is about discovering humanity and the spiritual links for it. I have how agnostics goes to spiritualists, but really: soul is a religious thing, you certainly cannt make up not praticing people as atheists or non-religious.

You certainly understand, the simple quest for a maker, the bitterness
because the maker cannt grant immortality is a religious theme. The graal quest is basically the samething.

[cafolini]

I think they mean a fictional story in which atheism is a central theme (duh).

I agree. But it is never the atheism, the theism or the agnosticism that's the fictional theme in intention. The three stooges are always pretty serious about their stuff and feed each other with philosophical, cultural straightjackets, which are now part of dynamic museums of unending vicious circles. And they are no longer coming back to where the action pertinent to the future is.

[Varenne Rodin]

I agree. But it is never the atheism, the theism or the agnosticism that's the fictional theme in intention. The three stooges are always pretty serious about their stuff and feed each other with philosophical, cultural straightjackets, which are now part of dynamic museums of unending vicious circles. And they are no longer coming back to where the action pertinent to the future is.

Again false. Plenty of books and movies have atheism as one of the major "intended themes." If a person argues against that they are either stubbornly obtuse, or oblivious.

The movie 'Contact' was pointedly about the lead character being an atheist. She was denied clearance to join a space mission because she admitted to being an atheist. The makers of the Matrix trilogy have said that the films and story were intended to be an allegory for atheism. 'A.I.: Artificial Intelligence' is another film that is pointedly and bleakly about atheism.

'The Invention of Lying' is about a land of people who have never lied. One day one of the characters becomes able to lie. He tells lots of tales, gets into mischief. Then someone he loves is near death and feels depressed about the end to her life, and the lead guy tells her beautiful lies about going to a paradise heaven place after death and seeing everyone she loves. The lie gets around. Everyone believes it. Religion is born. The atheist liar wants to tell everyone the truth, but he doesn't want to make anyone sad. Intentionally atheist from mega atheist writer Ricky Gervais.

In 'The Other Woman' the lead character is an atheist and it colors her perceptions of events in her life. She goes through trauma and depression and pushes people away. At some point she comes to terms with being an atheist and attempting to enjoy her life while avoiding being hurtful to others.

If you aren't aware of atheist themes in fictional works, you should probably take more in and be less insulting to those who have seen and read things you haven't seen or read.

[Varenne Rodin]

I forgot to mention 'Life of Brian' and a number of other Monty Python and Terry Gilliam projects. Also, Woody Allen's 'Sleeper' and things like that. They aren't books, but they are undeniably fictional works.

[cafolini]

Again false. Plenty of books and movies have atheism as one of the major "intended themes." If a person argues against that they are either stubbornly obtuse, or oblivious.

The movie 'Contact' was pointedly about the lead character being an atheist. She was denied clearance to join a space mission because she admitted to being an atheist. The makers of the Matrix trilogy have said that the films and story were intended to be an allegory for atheism. 'A.I.: Artificial Intelligence' is another film that is pointedly and bleakly about atheism.

'The Invention of Lying' is about a land of people who have never lied. One day one of the characters becomes able to lie. He tells lots of tales, gets into mischief. Then someone he loves is near death and feels depressed about the end to her life, and the lead guy tells her beautiful lies about going to a paradise heaven place after death and seeing everyone she loves. The lie gets around. Everyone believes it. Religion is born. The atheist liar wants to tell everyone the truth, but he doesn't want to make anyone sad. Intentionally atheist from mega atheist writer Ricky Gervais.

In 'The Other Woman' the lead character is an atheist and it colors her perceptions of events in her life. She goes through trauma and depression and pushes people away. At some point she comes to terms with being an atheist and attempting to enjoy her life while avoiding being hurtful to others.

If you aren't aware of atheist themes in fictional works, you should probably take more in and be less insulting to those who have seen and read things you haven't seen or read.

You are proving my point. The atheism is never the fiction it actually is. I owe you the insult that you claim. I suppose I should do it to make you happy. Wouldn't you like one now so that you get away with all the claims of what I read or not read? It might get the subject out of bounds and cause this thread to be closed.

[Varenne Rodin]

Well, I hope the people who were and are seeking fiction with atheist themes will enjoy all of the fantastic suggestions here. I hope the thread won't be shut down over the unwarranted emotion of some members. Best wishes.

[JCamilo]

How come life of brian is about atheism?

[Varenne Rodin]

JCamilo, no one has to like or agree with any of my suggestions. If you have seen it, and you don't see how it's about atheism, there is some kind of disconnect. I'm not going to type out the scripts and subtext for all of these books and films. You are free to familiarize yourself with Terry Gilliam at your leisure. If you already have, and have taken all you can from his stuff then there is nothing more for me to offer you. I think most atheists will understand what I'm talking about. Angst and conflict is out of place in this thread.

[JCamilo]

I am very familiar with it and with a Interview of John Cleese saying the movie was about everyone finding their own form to be religious, and not the chaos of people who told you how to be and how they are actually very respectful of Jesus. They even sent the script to a minister to approve it. It is certainly not Atheist, as no momment it gives the idea that there is no no god. Being critical of religion does not equate atheism, or we are going to have Voltaire as writing atheist stories.

[Varenne Rodin]

Haha. They sent the script to a minister to approve it? Ok. There are some jokes that are understood, and some that go unnoticed. This thread isn't about trying to inject every form of fiction with respect for Jesus. It's not necessary. Perhaps someone can start a thread about seeing reverence for God in everything including mockeries of God and his/her/its followers. Tell me how Jesus is part of 'Defending Your Life' and etc. Question: Do you have suggestions for fiction with atheist themes? If not, what is the motivation for participating in this thread?

[JCamilo]

Well, lets put simply, a work that does not present the denial of divinity is certainly not atheist. Life of Brian does not present the denial of divinity and like the python themselves point, they did all to show jesus as jesus, with the same words, aura, etc. I does not matter much if it is reverence or mockery, Atheism does not equate criticism to religious aspects and that is what Life of Brian does (in the word of the very gang). You should first point what is atheist there? That is what I asked. You are rather using the time to question if I can ask it or not.

Of course, commenting about the works suggested is motivation enough right?

[Varenne Rodin]

You are free to ask questions. Sometimes my response will be to suggest a person read books and watch films and interpret them any way they want. That's the answer. Moving on. :)

[JCamilo]

Oh, the world of Humpty Dumpty, where the gospels can be considered atheist fiction and Terry Jones to be Terry Gilliam.