Sonnet I

[Patrick_Bateman]

From fatherly foam, sea of shimmering azure

Came the image of ethereal beauty and grace

A creature of virtue with a heart oh so pure

Milky white complexion cast reign o'er her face

As the warm shore sands cradled her stride

Flowers bloomed brightly in wake of her trail

The white doves rejoiced in her maidenly pride

While fauna all danced with mirth from the vale

Keeper of promise for fruit with Midas touch

She, on young Paris granted fateful desire

Love unrequited proved for mortal too much

A nation was burned by a Spartan king's fire

Fair beauty corrupted the hearts of those men

And beauty's corruption would triumph again



I couldn't for the life of me stick to a metre so don't try and find one.

[Jerrybaldy]

this is exactly what I feared I would find here but thankfully until now never did

[Patrick_Bateman]

this is exactly what I feared I would find here but thankfully until now never did

You are one harsh bastard

I knew I'd be up against pretentious tossers like you while posting things here.

What's wrong with it oh Master of the written word?

[hillwalker]

What's wrong with it oh Master of the written word?

In a word - nothing. It's a perfect example of a poem written by someone hell-bent on promoting form over substance.

It's a sonnet because it has 14 lines - but the line lengths tend to waver from 12 syllables to 9 and there's no metre to talk of as you yourself admit (in fact it could pass as prose if it were written as a single paragraph). But it rhymes, so 1 out 3 ain't bad.

As for what it's about. Helen of Troy? That's my guess - but it is hard to tell. The flowery language you have chosen to write in is what gives 'poetry' a bad name - fancy, forced expressions that make little sense.

Milky white complexion cast reign o'er her face

.....cradled her stride

Keeper of promise for fruit with Midas touch

It baffles me why someone wanting to express their thoughts to a reader first puts on a strait-jacket, then a pair of wooden gloves and a blindfold.

And as for your response to JB - you posted it expecting a comment so deal with it.

H (has returned temporarily)

[the facade]

And as for your response to JB - you posted it expecting a comment so deal with it.

I agreed with what you said up to this point. JerryBaldy's comment was simply unnecessary.

[YesNo]

Fair beauty corrupted the hearts of those men

And beauty's corruption would triumph again

I liked the last two lines although I'm confused by what the last one actually meant. They do sound nice.

[Cunninglinguist]

Criticism:


In a word - nothing. It's a perfect example of a poem written by someone hell-bent on promoting form over substance.

It's a sonnet because it has 14 lines - but the line lengths tend to waver from 12 syllables to 9 and there's no metre to talk of as you yourself admit (in fact it could pass as prose if it were written as a single paragraph). But it rhymes, so 1 out 3 ain't bad.

As for what it's about. Helen of Troy? That's my guess - but it is hard to tell. The flowery language you have chosen to write in is what gives 'poetry' a bad name - fancy, forced expressions that make little sense.

...

It baffles me why someone wanting to express their thoughts to a reader first puts on a strait-jacket, then a pair of wooden gloves and a blindfold.

Moreover, a proper sonnet, as I'm sure you know, H, is more than just that - e.g., typically it's dedicated to developing some sort of problem - usually expressed in the first 8 lines - and resolving that problem, usually in the last 6.

Lacking that much is excusable, and even, time to time, one ought to bend the rules, perhaps introducing some unsolvable problem and concluding with some sort of observation, which you seem to attempt. But, ostensibly, you have bent the rules unconsciously and it makes the poem appear pedestrian.

Perhaps, for me, the lack of any meter really undermines this piece; the bumpiness makes Helen's "milky" face read more like chunky milk. I have to contest that it's unconditionally more important to be cognizant of your meter than your rhyme; and most people who try to write rhyming verse fail at that part. Sticking to strict iambs isn't necessary, nor would I encourage it. Simply, though, the worst thing you can do is make the meter ambiguous.

In any case, one ought to reserve writing in this Elizabethan/Shakespearean style as a purely academic exercise; today the language is pretentious and unnecessarily difficult.

The imagery is also a bit cliche...you're throwing around too many corny adjectives and missing, as Hill tells, any deeper substance. Furthermore, there are certain incongruities that make the imagery awkward; doves had no symbolic significance for the Greeks, that was a Jewish invention. You thrust a Judaeochristian religious image, which totally undermines any attempt to convey the reader back to Greece; your usage of the symbol, unfortunately, bespeaks an ignorance more than anything.


Compliments:

With that said, we all have to start somewhere. Sometimes writing even fourteen lines is a herculean labor. But, in truth, I have found poetry to be mostly a learning process; while the poems may be exceptional, the experience of writing them usually counts for more. By each we refine our skills, and no one can justly hold it against you for that.

[everyadventure]

It looks like some people didn't have their coffee today... or whiskey... or whatever the drink of choice may be. I, however, am fortified with my Diet Dr. Pepper, so I am prepared to contribute politely :)

I liked how the warm shore sands "cradled" her stride... but then had a hard time making that image work with the one immediately after, as I don't envision blooming flowers on the seashore. "Fatherly foam," well, that was an icky little phrase... I did like your final line, though.

And believe me, I have read much, MUCH worse here, if that's any consolation... the really terrible ones I can't even bring myself to comment on!

[_Shannon_]

I think there are some problems with how the poem scans, the meter is really choppy in some places and because of the form, is really distracting.

From a personal preference standpoint, I don't like the choice of azure and allusion to Midas, or the fatherly foam.

I think it's fun and very challenging to try to write within prescribed forms, and I applaud you for trying!

[Patrick_Bateman]

fatherly foam is a reference to Aphrodite's creation from the sea and the flowers blooming is part of the myth as she emerges from the sea onto the shores of Cyprus.

It's my first attempt and I by no means think it's better than what it is but my friends always love things I write and I don't get proper feedback from them sinc ethey are not avid readers and a completely in the dark about poetry

Which is why I post on here 'hoping' for constructive criticism rather than derision.

I do like my little rhyming couplet though and I'm glad that has been well received by most :) but yes this sonnet was only written in about an hour.

I feel like since I'm new to composing my own haiku and poetry I need to get all the flowery language and cliches out of the way as I play around. before I start getting really serious and actually conforming to metre and adhere strictly to poetic form (especially with the sonnet) although I do feel for a first attempt I have firmly distinguished the octave from the sestet and that my volta is quite clear.

But I fully see what EVERYONE ELSE has told him on here and appreciate the time you took to read and reply.

[hillwalker]

I need to get all the flowery language and cliches out of the way as I play around. before I start getting really serious and actually conforming to metre and adhere strictly to poetic form (especially with the sonnet).

I would advise you to loosen up. Writing is meant to be fun - even when the subject matter is serious or problematic. If the writer has fun creating his piece the chances are the reader will also get to enjoy it. :coolgleamA:

You make adhering to poetic form sound like a penance for wanting to be seen as a poet. My advice would be to experiment with as many different styles as you can before settling on the one that fits you best.

Good luck

H

[Cunninglinguist]

I feel like since I'm new to composing my own haiku and poetry I need to get all the flowery language and cliches out of the way as I play around. before I start getting really serious and actually conforming to metre and adhere strictly to poetic form (especially with the sonnet) although I do feel for a first attempt I have firmly distinguished the octave from the sestet and that my volta is quite clear.

I would advise focusing on the psychological undertones of the words you're using; what they mean and how people recognize them subconsciously. Beyond their succinct etymologies, dictionaries are of pretty little use here; you have to consider the context wherein you're employing the word and use your intuition. To develop this, writing does well; but writing is no substitute for reading, and vica versa.

Meter and rhyme (and other formalistic devices), at least in my current hypotheses about poetry, are primarily mnemonic devices - You know how people say "that's a catchy tune?". Metaphors, similes, etc. are also mnemonic, but moreover make concepts more tangible to most people. Thus, the more consistent your metaphor is the "better," as it were, it will be. Of course a poem doesn't have to be a conceit (one long metaphor), and that would actually be unbecoming and inappropriate in many cases. But anyone can indolently attach "rosy" to "girl," yet it takes a master to write something like Shakespeare's Sonnet 73.

"Flowery" language is usually a symptom of pretension, which LitNet, I think, sees through fairly quickly. So one wouldn't get much from keeping it here.

[Jerrybaldy]

Strewth
I feared I would find it as I found it pretentious. If that makes me a pretentious bastard in finding your poem pretentious then thats confusing. To 'The facade' if my opinion is unnecessary does that just mean you didn't agree with it. I like what I like as does everybody. This holds no reality to me . Shoot me. People have hated and slated things I have written. Deal with it or don't post. Others like it, concentrate on the positive.
JB

[the facade]

Strewth
I feared I would find it as I found it pretentious. If that makes me a pretentious bastard in finding your poem pretentious then thats confusing. To 'The facade' if my opinion is unnecessary does that just mean you didn't agree with it. I like what I like as does everybody. This holds no reality to me . Shoot me. People have hated and slated things I have written. Deal with it or don't post. Others like it, concentrate on the positive.
JB

Oh, please - harsh criticism is fine. Nor did I ever claim your opinion was unnecessary.

"this is exactly what I feared I would find here but thankfully until now never did

Never mind the tone, how is a person meant to learn anything from something elusive as this? Except for discovering that one person did, in fact, dislike his poem, PB could not possibly find anything constructive about your comment. Hence it was completely unnecessary.

Good day.

[Jerrybaldy]

I am liking the 'good day' Facade, it has a flourish that can be heard. Let's face it all this debate is much better than a poem going unnoticed and my opinion should be of little value. I take your point though and in that spirit I would ammend my comment to be more balanced.... I hate the use of o'er in line four as I always hate it's use but the whole thing does have a poetry and a skill. I kinda object to being called a pretentious tosser considering the piece being reviewed, but I will get over it :) This is just one offering, I may well love the next and if not others will. I mainly keep silent when I don't like something and simply don't comment but this experience has made me think otherwise. Screw your detractors Patrick, particularly myself, I am no poet, but we can have fun admitting what we dont like as well as what we do. Maybe.
keep writing.
Jerry

[the facade]

I am liking the 'good day' Facade, it has a flourish that can be heard. Let's face it all this debate is much better than a poem going unnoticed and my opinion should be of little value. I take your point though and in that spirit I would ammend my comment to be more balanced.... I hate the use of o'er in line four as I always hate it's use but the whole thing does have a poetry and a skill. I kinda object to being called a pretentious tosser considering the piece being reviewed, but I will get over it :) This is just one offering, I may well love the next and if not others will. I mainly keep silent when I don't like something and simply don't comment but this experience has made me think otherwise. Screw your detractors Patrick, particularly myself, I am no poet, but we can have fun admitting what we dont like as well as what we do. Maybe.
keep writing.
Jerry

Awesome!

Good day!