Video Games that have literary merit?

[brandygang]

I want to know if any of you think there are games out there (PC or Console) that are rich enough in narrative elements,themes, and merits (far past the typical gameplay element) that deserve to be literature in their own right.

I certainty don't know a lot. A few I would consider a possibility are:

-EarthBound 2 and 3
-The Metal Gear Solid series
-?

Those are all I can think of. Can anyone think of such?

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

The only game I've played in recent memory that has a truly rich narrative with interesting characters is Red Dead Redemption (are video games italicized?). That's the only one that comes to mind.

[JCamilo]

Most of the good rpgs have a good merit (lets not say literary, but merits of narrative, as it is more an audio-visual experience), Torment for example, tries to develop character's personality with good dialogue, Lionheart has several stories mixing with stories (You must help Cervantes who is hunted by a lunatic that fights windmills, Shylock to collect a debt from Shakespeare, Cortez to find money to travel overseas, etc) but in one chapter-missions there is a quite interesting story about Cyclops.

[The Comedian]

I like JCamilo's distinction between video games that have merit -- with one aspect of that merit being the game's narrative -- rather than saying that video games are (or could be) "literature". The two mediums are just too different. It's like saying what kind of meat is eggs?

[MystyrMystyry]

I've played a few - Morrowind (in its day), Oblivion, Mass Effect, and Vampire: The Maquerade: Bloodlines - approach literature and in a few respects equal it, but comparisons are odious as the experience is entirely different - more dreamlike in the gameworld and seemingly endless with the myriad minor quests (which of course you could choose to ignore)

And still they are reduced by the limitations of the game engine - though Dragon Age: Origins and Awakenings, Fallout 3, and Metro 2033 all have a certain unique quality you're really dealing with a kind of literary/game experience rather than totally diverse experiences, and also a 'kind' of literature - that is genre fiction: sci fi, horror, sword and sorcery, etc

Rather than compare to literature this selection compares favorably to film or mini-series, but requiring a disproportionate amount of time to play them

[Lokasenna]

I'll be the first to bang the "games-are-art" drum, but I agree with the Comedian - games and literature are two different art forms.

Concerning narrative, games are an interesting case study (I'm principally thinking of RPGs). Rather than being the product of a single mind with a definite purpose, they are usually designed by a team of people who are beholden to executive meddling. This has given them a tendency to be rather clichéd and derivative, and to often fall back on the same stock storylines.

For example, take the 12th incarnation of the popular Final Fantasy series. Originally, the main character was going to be a fellow named Basch, a thirty-something, grizzled warrior framed for the murder of his king, whose story was to be a rather bleak and suicidal quest for redemption while being subject to the intricate power games played by various politcal powers. The executives, however, told the designer (who had a nervous breakdown and quit eventually) that a predominantly teenage audience would not be able to identify with an older protagonist with such a serious outlook on life. Hence, a minor teenage character (originally intended as a comic sidekick) was promoted to the position of main protagonist, and the other fellow sidelined to the supporting cast. The original storyline is still recognizable, but the new main character barely features in it - as the such, the protagonist is essentially exists distinct from the narrative. This rather ruins the functionality of the story, in my opinion.

For another example, take the slightly less well known Xeno series, the brain child of Tetsuya Takahashi. He has, poor fellow, tried not once but twice to bring his creation to life, and both times failed. He had planned a six game series, with a very heavy focus on plot and characterisation. The first attempt, published by Squaresoft, was called Xenogears - and was only the fifth episode of the six. The executives didn't want to be producing a rival series for their flagship Final Fantasy series, and as such limited him to one game and gave him a tiny budget - though the game is rightly praised for the excellent and complex quality of its story, many note that the final third of it is highly compressed and somewhat rushed as a result of the limits placed upon it. Several years later, under new publisher Monolith, he had another go. Xenosaga: Episode One is, in my opinion, a bloody good story told in an exceptional way. It has complex characters, a highly intellectual and sophisticated sphere of reference, beautiful design, excellently composed and produced music - all in all, an excellent game, principally because the creator had almost completely free reign to do what he wanted. However, the executives decided that the first game was popular enough to sell pretty much any sequel, and so booted the orignal creator off the team for the second game - this resulted in a rather dreadful product that was heavily criticised for the brevity and sloppiness of its plot, its clichéd design, and some rather jarring alterations to established characters. As the result of it flopping badly, the original creator was invited back, but only on the expectation that he would end the series with the third game, which he did. This involved having to have a long recap of all the events that would have been included in the middle games, and again gave rise to a rather abrupt ending; it recieved good reviews, but it was still very much an unfinished product. Takahashi's wife is a friend of a friend, and I'm informed through her that her husband has attempted suicide three times since his first game came out - if my work got meddled with in such a way, I'd probably feel the same.

...Right, I'll climb off my soapbox now. If anyone is surprised at my little outburst here, I'll explain: I am minded to write an article on the appropriation of Norse myth and legend in modern electronic media - hence I've been researching!

[JCamilo]

There is clearly a demand for narratives in video-games. Even Arcade games improved their market by the development of characters - they are given background, punching lines, visuals and all this even matched their "fighting" style.

Certain elements of Narratives can be find in any medium (comics - which I also put apart of literature, orality, cinema, literature itself, drama) and we can see this in many video-games (and even the tabletop RPG feature). Gameplay is off-course important but this is not false to drama for example, who considered the mechanics of stage to develop their stories. The multi-creation seems a bit like traditional oral creation. The caring with visual sequence is similar to Cinema and Comics. I am sure the caring with graphics is an example of aesthetic experience. It is early, but we may see some genius dedicated only to videogames and creating some masterpiece, which will remain advanced no matter the technology.

A problem is exactly this: video-games get outdated, not due to the aesthetic - narrative content, but due to the technological content. While we can have "collectors" who dig old games, they are recycled quite fast. In a world where art must be to all, videogames, the old ones, are almost particular museums.

[Lokasenna]

A problem is exactly this: video-games get outdated, not due to the aesthetic - narrative content, but due to the technological content. While we can have "collectors" who dig old games, they are recycled quite fast. In a world where art must be to all, videogames, the old ones, are almost particular museums.

I'm not sure, you know. There's a whole raft of older games being re-released on on either hand-held thingums, or for download to modern consoles. According to the sales figures, they sell - and presumably the companies wouldn't go in for it if it didn't make them money. And I don't think it's just those who played the game originally who are buying them.

In much the same way one can re-read a good book, one can replay a good game. You have to accept the limitations of aging, of course, but that's can be a part of the appeal. The fact that I have no first hand experience of the culture of the 1930s in no way prohibits me from enjoying the works of Evelyn Waugh. Where narrative is concerned, dating isn't usually a huge problem. I know people who are playing old games for the first time and really enjoying them.

[JCamilo]

There is some, specially those Atari, revival. The new hand consoles, less technological, needed some feature and the industry used it. But it is more a design revival. Some other day, I got (i hand) a sequel to Baldur's Gate, which I didnt years ago. I wanted to play, but it didnt work in new windows. Same goes for Warcraft or Starcraft original games, who needed tech revival.

[OrphanPip]

RPGs to an extent have resisted the recycling nature of gaming, which has quickly killed 2D shootem-ups and beatem-ups from being dominant genres since* the 32bit era.

The success Nintendo has had with ports of SNES rpgs to the gameboys, and Sony even did some onto the PSO in the old days, speaks to this. There is also a new wave with the Wii and PS3 of being able to download classic games, which now require very little memory, for a minor fee. Old games that were brilliant fun in their day are often still fun today.

(Starcraft II is a brilliant game btw, but it certainly doesn't have much of a narrative, the fun of it comes from the complexity of the multiplayer gameplay, the so called "chess-on-crack" quality of it.)

[Paulclem]

There's been a focus upon improved graphics in games, and until this settles a bit, and there can be more focus upon content, they are going to continue to focus upon the visuals. I think we've got some way to go yet with 3-D TV coming along, and perhaps a more immersive VR experience.

aving said that, the demographic of Video games is not static. I've been playing since the early 90's and I would look for more depth of play, rather than a simple shoot 'em up. I think as Nintendo has targeted the family and female market quite successfully, there will probably be a curmudgeon developer who comes up with a great combination on the understanding that the niche market will be older gamers with higher narrative expectations and plot sophistication. here's hoping anyway...

By the way, I think Final fantasy 7really showed me what an expansive medium video games can be. I must have played that game for 6 months or more - (combined with a family and full time work of course).

[JCamilo]

Strategy games have a problem, they became Hack and slash in multiplaying. I recall much of the "cult" status of Warcraft and Starcraft (Mostly) was playing the single player missions, which was conducted as a narrative... I liked the final line of Kerrigan in the expanssion : I am the queen ***** of universe

[OrphanPip]

You can complete the campaign story relatively quickly. The staying power of the games was the competitiveness of the multiplayer experience. Although, you had to be good at it to actually win, they televise the game on TV in Korea, which I don't quite get. It's fun to play but I couldn't fathom watching someone play a video game.

[Oniw17]

Lionheart has several stories mixing with stories (You must help Cervantes who is hunted by a lunatic that fights windmills, Shylock to collect a debt from Shakespeare, Cortez to find money to travel overseas, etc) but in one chapter-missions there is a quite interesting story about Cyclops.I didn't realize anyone else ever played that game. I remember in 8th grade I got brownie points for accusing de vinci of being a templar.



A problem is exactly this: video-games get outdated,
Emulators. Got 5 of them, and I just remembered they existed 2 weeks ago.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

I've said this before and I'll say it again: I don't play games for their stories. Not once has a game motivated me to go on with it because I'm just dying to know what happens. Never has a game's story grabbed me that way. Even the games with the best stories (Fallout 3, Red Ded Redemption, Metal Gear series [arguably]) have never made me care for the characters. The only time a game has elicited a true emotional response from me (aside from jumping when stuff jumps out at you in horror games) is when the horse died in Shadows of the Colossus. And, wouldn't you know, that game had barely any dialogue, and a very ambiguous story.

[XQZ]

I felt that way in Oblivion when I lost my unicorn to a troll. I couldn't go on, and had to reload a long previous savepoint so that I could lead it it from danger

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

It's funny. In real life (such as a news story) or fiction I always feel much more sadness when an animal is killed than when a human is.

[Lokasenna]

By the way, I think Final fantasy 7really showed me what an expansive medium video games can be. I must have played that game for 6 months or more - (combined with a family and full time work of course).

Yes, that was my first 'serious' game as well - it was utterly absorbing!

[Lee_93]

I think video games are going to move away from a set narration and focus more on player choice (the Fallout series being the obvious example). In RPG’s At least.

Shooters, I don’t think anyone plays for their storyline anyway (not me anyway), it’s more focused on multiplayer now. I mean, does anyone have a clue what the Black Ops campaign was about? Although the mission with ‘Sympathy for the devil’ was amazing :)

Back to the topic; I think it’s more about definitions. I wouldn’t say they have literary merit but some (Gears of war series) are very cinematic, so they could be compared with movies more than literature, as I think someone’s already said, I’m too lazy to check :)

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

I would say that video games would better be classified as having artistic merit, rather than narrowing it down and saying literary merit.

[keilj]

Zork


possibly Nightmare Creatures

[Paulclem]

They may well diverge. I like shoot 'em ups for some blam blam adrenaline, but I'd also like a game that absorbed me in the story. I get different things from the two types.

I also got a lot of nostalgia playing Grand Theft Auto Vice City. After another frustrating fail at a difficult mission, you could cruise around for a bit and listen to some 80's hits - and then go and try an amazing car jump.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

I'm currently playing Mass Effect 2. Impressed with the narrative so far.

[SilentMute]

I'm a big fan of the Tombraider series. You are introduced to many actual ancient myths from many civilizations. I'm currently playing TR4: The Last Revelation, which is the most satisfying Egyptian myth game of this series. There have been Egypt levels in some of the other games, but I was rather disappointed in them.

I am also a big fan of Japanese horror games like Ju-on: The Grudge, which is based on the movies. These movies use the Japanese myth of the onryo spirit. My favorite Japanese horror game, though, is Fatal Frame 2: Crimson Butterfly. This also has onryo spirits.

Tombraider and Star Wars have both spawned a lot of fiction. Of course, nobody would probably compare it to the classics--but I think video games still represent our concepts of heroes as much as Greek mythology did.

[MystyrMystyry]

There's a couple based on literatures that have come to mind - Call of Cthulhu and Rise of the Argonauts - I forgot about them earlier, but the first was quite well executed survival-horror based on the obvious if a bit drawn-out, and the second was passable but fairly episodic - long tedious explanatory passages and then almost too much action to cope with, repeat to the end...

[Paulclem]

I'm currently playing Mass Effect 2. Impressed with the narrative so far.

I've just bought Mass Effect 1 for the PC for £5. I was waiting for this release on the x box a few years ago when I got the red rings of death. I was sorely disappointed. I'm enjoying the game so far though. I can see it's going to need a fair old amount of time investment over the next year or so.

[Paulclem]

I'm a big fan of the Tombraider series. You are introduced to many actual ancient myths from many civilizations. I'm currently playing TR4: The Last Revelation, which is the most satisfying Egyptian myth game of this series. There have been Egypt levels in some of the other games, but I was rather disappointed in them.

I am also a big fan of Japanese horror games like Ju-on: The Grudge, which is based on the movies. These movies use the Japanese myth of the onryo spirit. My favorite Japanese horror game, though, is Fatal Frame 2: Crimson Butterfly. This also has onryo spirits.

Tombraider and Star Wars have both spawned a lot of fiction. Of course, nobody would probably compare it to the classics--but I think video games still represent our concepts of heroes as much as Greek mythology did.

I played the first tomb raider game on the pc in the 90s. I was amazed by them, though I was often frustrated and lost in the huge puzzles. It was often difficult to see where to go. I remember a pyramid puzzle which stumped me for ages. I think reverted to a walkthrough to get through it.

[JuniperWoolf]

Tetris.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Tetris may be good, but the ultimate narrative experience is Donky Kong. So much symbolism.

[Hurricane]

I've said this before and I'll say it again: I don't play games for their stories. Not once has a game motivated me to go on with it because I'm just dying to know what happens. Never has a game's story grabbed me that way. Even the games with the best stories (Fallout 3, Red Ded Redemption, Metal Gear series [arguably]) have never made me care for the characters. The only time a game has elicited a true emotional response from me (aside from jumping when stuff jumps out at you in horror games) is when the horse died in Shadows of the Colossus. And, wouldn't you know, that game had barely any dialogue, and a very ambiguous story.

I've had games that, frankly, I do play for the stories. Maybe I'm an exception since I also almost never play multiplayer online, but I value a game with a good narrative highly over one that just goes for cool effects.
A good example of this that I can think of is the Half Life series, particularly Half Life 2 and the subsequent episodes. The developers went out of their way to create real characters in the NPCs, and it shows. One of the main characters is killed at the end of one of the games, and it's a legitimately shocking and jarring moment that sticks with you. Especially playing through listening to developer commentary, you get the sense that they spent a lot of time crafting not just the environment and the stuff you shoot, but put a whole lot of thought into the story and characterization.
Another good example is "Alan Wake," which is almost completely story driven.

I'd rather play through any of those multiple times than the Call of Duty games, which rely on soulless interactions and weak attempts at storytelling. Bleh.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

I've had games that, frankly, I do play for the stories. Maybe I'm an exception since I also almost never play multiplayer online, but I value a game with a good narrative highly over one that just goes for cool effects.
A good example of this that I can think of is the Half Life series, particularly Half Life 2 and the subsequent episodes. The developers went out of their way to create real characters in the NPCs, and it shows. One of the main characters is killed at the end of one of the games, and it's a legitimately shocking and jarring moment that sticks with you. Especially playing through listening to developer commentary, you get the sense that they spent a lot of time crafting not just the environment and the stuff you shoot, but put a whole lot of thought into the story and characterization.
Another good example is "Alan Wake," which is almost completely story driven.

I'd rather play through any of those multiple times than the Call of Duty games, which rely on soulless interactions and weak attempts at storytelling. Bleh.

You're definitely not the exception, as many gamers I talk to find the story of a game one of the most important elements, if not the most important. Plus, s game's story heavily factors into pretty much any review. Maybe this is why many games are losing their appeal for me.

And, I don't see much wrong with the CoD stories. Short of a few exceptions (Fallout 3, Mass Effect 2, Red Dead Redemption) the CoD stories seem to be about as good as everything else.

[Hurricane]

I probably should clarify on Call of Duty. I really mean the Modern Warfare series, particularly Modern Warfare 2. The games set in WWII gave you the sense of being a small cog in a big machine, an average dude put in extraordinary circumstances who rose to the occasion.
The big exception I can think of is the SAS guy in the original CoD, but for the most part your role was "random paratrooper" or "faceless Russian peasant draftee" and that was kind of cool, particularly as you did more missions and saw your role evolve in the greater scheme of the war.

With Modern Warfare (particularly 2), things just get ridiculous. You play as some vaguely defined bad-*** who acts like a thug. Taking random Ranger Reg PFC out of Afghanistan and putting him in some secret-squirrel mission to kill civilians "undercover" to kill some bad Russian guy? A battle with the Russians for control of DC? Just reading the plot description manages to be silly. There should be a degree of silliness in video games, but when you make a game with as much hype that MW2 had and it has stupid glaring plot holes, it just comes off as a sloppily put together compilation of moments that the developers thought would be cool.

[MystyrMystyry]

Don't forget pong, which is self-explanatory

[OrphanPip]

Randomly came across a parody of an NES version of The Great Gatsby.

http://greatgatsbygame.com/

[MystyrMystyry]

Great Gatsby gaming? Not my cuppa cocoa

But there's a game called Batman: Arkham Asylum which is based on a graphic novel literature of everyone's favorite Batty detective - it doesn't take an even remotely literary tack, but it is definitely one of the best games you'll ever play

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Wow, that is a work of genius, OrphanPip. Sharing with my literary-inclined friends.