Names

[TheFifthElement]

I've been doing a bit of Classical reading recently, and it got me wondering: why is it that the classical boys' names have fallen entirely out of use, but classical girls' names are in use, some commonly, some less commonly?

For example, you don't come across boys named Odysseus, or Achilles, or Apollo but it's perfectly normal to come across girls named Penelope, or Helen, or Chloe. And it wouldn't seem overly strange to encounter a girl named Persephone, or Andromeda, or Ariadne, or Athena but it would seem strange to encounter a boy named Zeus, or Heracles, or Agamemnon.


On a broader note, the scope of boys' names seems to be a limited pool, whereas girls can be named after virtually anything and it doesn't seem to ever be an issue.

I'm curious what people think and feel about this. Would you, yourself, name your son Zeus or Apollo? If not, why not? Is it just because it's unusual, and if so, does that apply to boys and girls, or is it just more acceptable for girls to have unusual names? If so, why?

[OrphanPip]

Well there are a few, Anthony, Paris, and Jason are the ones I can think of that are still around.

[kiki1982]

I had one classmate in music school once who was called... Ramses. I had never ever come across someone called that way and have never ever since. I guess he was quite pleased never to encounter someone with the same name. Then you're quite unique. :)

[Lokasenna]

I know a fellow named Julius...

I suppose that classical mythology comes with a lot of baggage in our popular culture - and generally it is the male figures that are remembered more. Hence, these are names that articulate a definite sense of something, but have not come into common parlance.

Most people on the street would not have heard of Persephone or Ariadne, should you choose to name a daughter so, but if you called a son of yours Poseidon or Heracles, you might be seen to be putting your expectations to high.

I honestly think it is to do with popular imagination's conception of a name and its antecedents. For example, many common names (my own included) here in the west are derived of Hebrew origin, and are safely entrenched in normality to the point where almost no one would consider it's meaning - I mean, who's going to look at a Samuel and think "there goes the Name-of-God". However, where you to name a son Jesus, people would immediately think that rather odd, principally, I believe, because of it's cultural importance (though, of course, in Spain it is a perfectly acceptable name, which shows that culutral baggage goes both ways).

To highlight the point, let me take the name Jesus a step further. Jesus, of course, is actually the Latin rendering of the Hebrew original, which is Yeshua, from which the name Joshua is ultimately derived. Joshua, by contrast with Jesus, is a common name - I think this is because it doesn't carry the same cultural weight, despite essentially being the same thing.

[kiki1982]

Oh, yes, also know a little boy called 'Julius', but in the German way. It is quite a nice name to have, in Germany that is (nice sound :)).

But you say that about Jesus, Lokasenna. It certainly sounds weird in English, doesn't it, or in French (mon fils Jésus :eek:). That said, though, it is common name in Spain. And, I believe, they call Jesus the same: 'Jesùs'. (or accent other way round). I have always wondered why :confused:.

[OrphanPip]

Germanic names are fairly popular in English.

I think the only somewhat unusual name I've encountered in school, excluding Indian or Chinese names, was Cheyenne. Which is a Franconization of a Dakota word for a foreigner.

Edit: And is pronounced in a fashion unfortunately similar to the French word for dog, poor girl.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Cheyenne

[Wilde woman]

Well, there is Apolo Anton Ohno.

And you'd be surprised. I once met a Lysander. And I have friends named Ariadne and even Minerva.

[Paulclem]

I met a Spanish bloke in one of our classes once. Nice guy called Jesus pronounced hezus. I didn't even realise at first - dummy that I am.

Anyway, when he came to England the British Guys he worked just named him Franco. He insisted that we call him that - perhaps rather than murdering the pronunciation of Jesus to his ears. Ironic being called Jesus and Franco - a devilish dictator.

[JuniperWoolf]

I think that it's a good question, I don't know about it being a matter of male mythological characters being simply more popular than female characters. I'd argue that characters like Artemis or Minerva are far better known than say Orestes or Actaeon. I think that it's more because names like "Minerva" just sound more like the modern European names (eg. "Mary") that we've come to be familiar with, whereas when you compare modern names to male classics characters, "Actaeon" just simply sounds strange. It doesn't resemble what we've come to be used to during the last couple of thousand years of cultural mishmashing.

As for why a girl can get away with being named after anything when a boy can't, I don't know if that's true. I know one boy named "Blaze" and another named "Tiger" and they get teased pretty much equally to a girl that I know named "Flower." Funny-named kids get picked on, it doesn't seem to matter if they're male or female. You get your occasional kid named "Peaches" but for the most part kind parents give their kids pretty boring names regardless of gender (I had six "Kayla"s and four "Cory"s in my grade of only about seventy kids).

[The Comedian]

Tell me about it Fifith! When we had our two kids (both girls), we felt that we had many, many options for naming girls -- names that were unique and standard but, baring a few extremes, very few that were silly or embarrassing. But for boys well, it felt like you could only choose between the ultra mundane: "Michael", "David", "Jacob", or the goofy "Dutch", "Moonbeam", "Agamemnon". . . . And that was it.

[Helga]

Here on the ice we use a lot of our old names, both for boys and girls. All the names of the Norse Gods are used, Odin,Thor, Loki. we even have the name Fenrir and Ýmir.

the old girls names all still seem so normal that nobody thinks about it, except maybe Ísold is an unusual one here.

about being teased I don't think it has anything to do with the name if a bully gets the reaction he wants he will use it, some kids tried to tease me about my name because it sounds a lot like the icelandic word for Moose, Elga. it didn't bother me so it didn't stick but a very regular Anna had a worse time. My son has the most normal name you could think of I guess but he is in school with boys who have very odd names but nobody makes anything of it it's just a name.

[Lokasenna]

As for why a girl can get away with being named after anything when a boy can't, I don't know if that's true. I know one boy named "Blaze" and another named "Tiger" and they get teased pretty much equally to a girl that I know named "Flower." Funny-named kids get picked on, it doesn't seem to matter if they're male or female. You get your occasional kid named "Peaches" but for the most part kind parents give their kids pretty boring names regardless of gender (I had six "Kayla"s and four "Cory"s in my grade of only about seventy kids).

The daftest female name was told to me by a friend of mine. Her fiancé is a primary school teacher, and at the start of a new year, he was taking the register when he came across the following name:

La-a Smith

He hazarded a guess by pronouncing it "Laa", and was peremptorily informed by the child that "it's pronounced 'Ladasha' - the hyphen isn't silent!"

The second daftest female name was related to me by a social worker at my local hospital, who told me about a rather dim teenage girl who, having just given birth to a daughter, had decided to name her after a pretty and interesting word she had found on a hospital poster: "Chlamydia". She was, fortunately for the little girl, persuaded to change her mind.

Compared to those two, practically anything would be a better idea.

[kiki1982]

:lol:! I just read it to my hubby, about Chlamydia and he and I found it both funny and actually... quite nice, if it were not for the context :p.

Another daft one, saw it yesterday on the closing credits of Human Planet on BBC 1. Tuppence, a woman. A bit strange :shocked:.

[Emil Miller]

I knew a couple years ago who named their son Claudius, and recently while listening to a radio programme, one of the production team was given as Elvis McGonnigal. If that's his real name, his parents should be indicted for cruelty.

[kasie]

I've known a 'Hector', a 'Julius', a 'Julian' (both known as 'Jools'), a 'Marcus', an 'Ambrosius', a 'Mark Anthony', (known as 'Tone') and an 'Alexander' who resolutely refused to be known as Alex and who, when excited, stammered a little and called himself 'H-H-H-Halexander' and was looked upon fondly by all who met him as a result.

[wessexgirl]

I knew a Jesus too Paul, who was Spanish, and at school we have 2 Cheyennes and an Adonis! Imagine the expectations the poor lad has to live up to! :lol: I also knew of a woman through my old job who named her kids after mythology. I think they were named along the lines of Hebe, Amazon, and Hector and other names which I can't remember.

[Paulclem]

I knew a Jesus too Paul, who was Spanish, and at school we have 2 Cheyennes and an Adonis! Imagine the expectations the poor lad has to live up to! :lol: I also knew of a woman through my old job who named her kids after mythology. I think they were named along the lines of Hebe, Amazon, and Hector and other names which I can't remember.

Quite. It's the old Boy Named Sue effect isn't it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1BJfDvSITY

I knew a lad who played rugby whose nickname was "Dangerous". Rather a lot to live up to I thought given that he was a regular skinny chap.

[Paulclem]

Tell me about it Fifith! When we had our two kids (both girls), we felt that we had many, many options for naming girls -- names that were unique and standard but, baring a few extremes, very few that were silly or embarrassing. But for boys well, it felt like you could only choose between the ultra mundane: "Michael", "David", "Jacob", or the goofy "Dutch", "Moonbeam", "Agamemnon". . . . And that was it.

We had the same problem, and went with James. My wife wanted Alfie, but I stood firm. (It's an old guys name!) She also wanted Jack, but, for some reason it reminds me of coal and coal merchants.

[AuntShecky]

On the distaff side, there are plenty of young ladies named Venus,Cassandra, Diana, and what about Penelope Anne Miller and Penelope Cruz? Deborah and Melissa sound contemporary, but they are actually very old Biblical names. In addition to the inspiration of Johnny Mercer's song (not yet "classical," I admit,) many little girls are still named after Petrarch's idealized love, Laura. Did you know that one of Chaucer's tales has a character named Alison, although we don't hear of many little girls named "Eglantine." And contrary to popular belief, girls named Tiffany are not named after a jewelry store --it's a very old Anglo-Saxon name. Same with "Jennifer" -- which nearly every other baby girl was named in the late 70s,
early 80s -- it is, like "Gwyneth," as in Gwyneth
Paltrow -- a variation of "Guinevere."

I wish I could button-hole new parents and urge them not to use "trendy" names. There may be some time in the distant future when the now-grown daughter might want to keep her age confidential, as on a resume. But if she's named "Kylie" or "Madison" (after the Wisconsin town? the early American President? Darryl Hannah's character in "Splash"?), the HR person could pretty well pinpoint the decade when she was born.

[Wilde woman]

The second daftest female name was related to me by a social worker at my local hospital, who told me about a rather dim teenage girl who, having just given birth to a daughter, had decided to name her after a pretty and interesting word she had found on a hospital poster: "Chlamydia". She was, fortunately for the little girl, persuaded to change her mind.

That is hilariously unfortunate. I'm glad her parents came to their senses.

I've heard some pretty odd names as well, because my boyfriend and I worked with a lot of underprivileged (read: minority) students in California, so it was a very diverse place. One of my boyfriend's students was Thai and her name was pronounced "Kitty porn"....no joke. So you can imagine all the teasing this poor girl had to face.

Also, back to Classical names. There was an Atticus in my youth group orchestra! He was a troublemaker. He and his friends did the "I am Atticus" thing all the time. :D

[qimissung]

I'm in Texas and the name Jesus is very common here.

I wonder if people get more fanciful with girls names because many things about girls are more open and freer, such as their clothing and emotions. An exception would be the job market, I guess. :D

[Emil Miller]

. One of my boyfriend's students was Thai and her name was pronounced "Kitty porn"....no joke. So you can imagine all the teasing this poor girl had to face.

I believe the name Porn is quite common in Thailand, another oriental name that might lead to some joking among westerners is that of Sin. It was rather unfortunate that the former head of the Roman Catholic church in the Philippines was called Cardinal Sin.