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Lord Macbeth
01-18-2011, 10:32 AM
Well, the Author Showdowns have worked well so far, so for a change of pace I thought we could try something new--and yet something incredibly old and done a million times already...

A Top 10 list.

Yes, it's been done so many times it really IS almsot silly, but hey--it's also fun, if you go into it with the mindset that it's just for fun and there's no need to throw a fit or mention the absurdity of ranking texts from different authors and eras in a neat little list.

That being said: All the world's a stage, so give your best performance on this one, folks, and enter, Stage Right from the wings, your Top 10 lists! :D

Criteria:

-Literary significance, influence, and importance
-The significance, influence, and importance of the author himself (or herself)
-Style (Quite possibly the most subjective category here)
-Endurance (ie, how has the play held up over time? How does it fare today?)

And since this list is for PLAYS, an extra thing to take into consideration from that which I usually include...

-Performance history and popularity (ie, is this play still performed? How many different ways has it been done?


So, without further ado, I begin my list, appropriately enough, with...

10. Much Ado about Nothing by William Shakespeare:

Spoiler alert--this will NOT be the last time this Shakespeare fellow cracks this list for me. ;) My absolute favorite comedy, hands down. Now, if you're a Shakespeare afficianado or, really, if you've ever heard of the man--and if you haven't...WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU? Get thee to a nunnery, or at least to a library or YouTube THIS INSTANT!--you may be wondering, "What about A Midsummer Night's Dream?" And as much as I like that play, I really and truly do find the characters here all the better, and very often in plays, and particularly in Shakespeare's comedies, the assessment of the play has to start with the characters, as the plots are often adapted at least in part from other sources, so if not for the brilliance of Shakespeare's characters--and, yes, the little matter of the lines in his play being, on the whole, being simply incredible and still largely hold up as being among the best and most resonant in literature; if we ever do a Top 10 for LINES...well, suffice it to say you could easily fill that Top 10 with all Shakespeare lines, and possibly all Hamlet and Macbeth lines--we might very well be lauding some other writer as being the poet and playwright lauereate of the English language. (In addition I AM writing this from the standpoint of being a theatre person, so there's certainly a bit of a bias towards the characters in my view of literature as a whole, simply because I have a bias towards towards actors, in the same way I value philosophy highly and am a huge proponent of that, thus making my appreciation of a work be colored somewaht by its philosophical content and messages--everyone has a bias, a preference or two in literature, and these are mine.) All in all, while A Midsummer Night's Dream is a fantastic play with some very creative characters, I am personally of the opinion that Beatrice and Benedict from THIS play are THE BEST Shakespearean couple PERIOD--Romeo and Juliet, Petruccio and Kate, Lady and Lord Macbeth, and so on...they may be great couples in their own right, but Beatrice and Benedict are so concurrently bilarious and yet so believable that for me they're simply the best. If you've ever seen this play--and if you haven't, get thee to YouTube, two GREAT versions of it are currently on there, one with Kenneth Branagh and a young Robert Sean Leonard, better known as Dr. James Wilson from my beloved "House MD," the only show on today I watch, and one with modern language and a modern setting done by the BBC for their Shakespeare Retold series--you know how much Beatrice and Benedict argue...and ultimately, I think, that comes as close to a real depiction of love as it gets. We AREN'T all Romeos and Juliets, perfectly in love and in awe of one another, rather, we get on each otehr's envers and like to make snide comments and battle wits with one another...but at the end of the day it's those sort of people who do so who really DO stay togetehr, whereas the "perfect marriage" types and mentality lead to our ever-increasing divorce rate. With two of my favorite characters and a GREAT commentary on the battle of the sexes as well as on the nature of love, Much Ado About Nothing is a perfect fit for my #10 spot.

9. Pygmalion by George Bernard Shaw:

And for the second time I must begin my review of a listed play by stating that this is NOT the last time the playwright cracks my list. :D If this play doesn't ring an immediate bell with you--My Fair Lady. Arguably one of the greatest musicals of all-time--I know I love it, am lucky enough to have been able to have been in a production of it once in a small capacity, and I'd certainly rank the musical highly, which for someone who generally doesn't care for quite a few musicals is something else--My Fair Lady is, essentially, Pygmalion with music and Julie Andrews (or Audrey Hepburn, if you're watching the Oscar-winning musical version) and Rex Harrison added in as the infamous Eliza Doolitle and Henry Higgins. I'd be practicing a nasty form of mendacity if I didn't acknowledge that Pygmalion is helped into this slot by it's musical cousin, but as I've already noted a play's influence and it's performance history as portions of my criterion, and the musical really IS almost exactly the same with the addition of musical numbers, I don't see that as being unfair or disingenuous. Here we have another case of great characters elevating a play for me--Henry Higgins is, truth be told, not too far off from myself in real life (though if I had Rex Harrison's great English bite those who somehow tolerate me might very well have to call it quits in that regard) and Eliza Doolittle is such a great character to sympathize with. Add to that Pickering as a perfect, mild foil for the abrasive Higgins and the riotous Alfred Doolittle, and you can see why this play, either in its "default" or musical form, remains one of the most popular today. From a directorial standpoint, interestingly enough, it's also one of the easiest and hardest to cast at the same time, as there are really four roles of great importance (Mrs. Pierce and Freddie are decent supporting characters, to be sure, but as long as they aren't incredibly horribly miscast the production really won't suffer too much) and so it's not, say, like a Shakespearean tragedy or some of Shaw and Williams' other works, where there's a great ensemble--the play lives and dies on those four; cast the parts well and you'll more likely than not have a tremendous production, cast Pickering or Alfred poorly and your production might still be decent, but should you miscast Eliza or Higgins it's almost an assured bomb....but the play itself, however, is anything but, and truly remains one of the most "loverly" stage plays today, and one of the few musicals I personally will always be happy to attend.

8. A Doll's House by Henrik Ibsen:

If you've never seen or read a Henrik Ibsen play...well, be careful if you ever do--just as Shakespeare's plays can be beyond brilliant when done well but done poorly can be a complete artistic disaster, the same goes for Ibsen, and arguably more so in that at the very least there's a natural flow and poetry to Shakespeare's lines, as the plays are so often written at least partially prose, whereas Ibsen was one of the first and one of the best playwrights from the Realism school of playwrighting, and as a result of this the plays DO, to their undying credit, really feel very natural and very realistic, but if the real-life actors, then, do a horribly unconvincing job, well, it retains that realistic quality and FEELS horribly unconvincing. The great flip side of all that, of course, is that provided the actors do a good job Ibsen's plays WILL draw you in and make you feel right in the midst of very-understandable and relatable drama. Ibsen's one of the most renowned playwrights of his era and all-time, easily a Top 10 playwright if we were to do such a list on just the playwrights, and he has a LARGE base of support that would push form him--not unfoundedly--to be included in the Top 5, and what's more, some would even place him second only to Shakespeare himself. While I don't know about Top 5--nothing agaisnt Ibsen, but that's just a tough call to make for anyone who's name isn't Shakespeare or, arguably, Sophocles--I WOULD place him in the Top 10 easily. Why do I mention all of this? Simply because Ibsen has a LOT of plays that are well-known and critically acclaimed, from Hedda Gabler to An Enemy of the People to Ghosts and many more, and some might be wondering where THESE are on my list; simply put, while I DO like Ibsen and have read and seen all of these (with the exception of An Enemy of the People) I just couldn't quite place these plays on the list, so consider them honorary mentions. The paly that DID make the list, however, is just in another league, in my opinion, and has one of the BEST feminist characters in Nora and one of the BEST endings, one I won't menion here, so as not to ruin to ruin it for anyone who hasn't seen the work yet, as it's an ending that's a masterpiece of less equalling SO much more, and that as much as I love Shakespeare not EVERY play has to end with a grand oratorio, not to mention the fact that without the context of the play behind it the ending seems almost nothing. And yet it's EVERYTHING, the perfect summation of one of the best examinations of married life and certainly caters to the feminist critics; if you LOVE feminist works and characters...well, really you'll probably love ALL of Ibsen's plays and leading ladies, but you'll almost certainly ADORE this play, Nora, and the ending. I'd be lying, however, if I didn't admit that part of what elevates this play is, simply put, THE TITLE--read the title, watch the play (and I mean WATCH, Ibsen, for as great a playwright as he is, can also be notoriously-dry on paper at times, and this and really all of his works are definitely plays you want to at least see BEFORE reading, as the dry realism works far better on a stage than just on paper) and then, taking in all that you've just seen, take a look at the title again--it fits like a glove.

7. Antigone by Sophocles:

I suspect that anyone being suprised by this pick isn't shocked at Sophocles making the list, bt that it's this play and not Oedipus Rex that's here. In all honest I could eaily ut either work on a Top 10 Plays list and be perfectly happy, and likewise I wouldn't really mind having both on there. That being said there are a LOT of other great plays and playwrights that deserve recognition, and with two playwrights already accounting for 6 of the 10 slots, space is already limited, and I feel that while both are deep plays and still hold up thousands of years later, Antigone, with one of the earliest strong female characters in all of literature as well as the added issue of the State vs. the individual palying a key role in the play, seems to hold up better all these years later. Oedipus' tale, yes, is still great and still one that is relevant, but the exploration of his hubris can be applied to Antigone as well, and where Oedipus today is remembered mostly for being one of the first great tragic characters adn for the psychological complex that bears his name and launched a thousand critical essays on so many other characters, Antigone's feminist and individualist stances give two for the price of one and, in my opinion, her actions seem somewhat bolder and more striking, partially because of the added ideas she has to work off of and against, and partially because she has Oedipus' story already behind her to work off of as well, allowing her story a bit more textual depth. Tiresias, as he does so often in the Greek tragedies, comes and dispenses advice that, as usual, adds all the more philosophic meaning to the work, and then there's the case of Creon--a heroic figure in Oedipus Rex and one who pointed out Oedipus' faults and missteps, the fact HE now errs in jsut the same way gives a strong message about the corruption power brings and how it can truly turn a man, and as a reult Creon and the piece as a whole feels more dynamic as a result.

6. The Merchant of Venice by Shakespeare:

I've already mentioned this play in other posts enough to give you an idea of why I love it so much and hold it in siuch high esteem, so for brevity's sake I'll leave it at that.

5. The Glass Menagerie by Williams:

For having a title alluding to something fragile and unsubstantiative, is incredibly full of themes and ideas, and likewise, for a play with three leads and one supporting character making up the cast, Williams makes it each one of those characters, even the supporting one, really memorable. Tom Wingfield, sister Laura, mother Amanda, and the Gentleman Caller--and that's IT, and yet each stick out in your mind, play a specific role, and what's interesting and perhaps one of the greatest strengths of the play, the audience doesn't identify with just one or two of them, but ALL FO THEM in some capacity. We feel for Tom, stuck in a dead-end factory job that leaves him utterly dissatisfied with life as he works long hours at a menial post just to make ends meet when he is, in fact, teeming with artistic talent and wants nothing more than to travel and be free of his surroundings. We feel for Laura, so shy and prone to severe anexiety that it really is, for her, almost a debilitating disease, getting sick and terrified at even the idea of having to type a certain amount of words in a moment, and with her mother and Tom's strong personalities dominating the household she's left to her titular glass menagerie of glass figurines, playing out the life in quiet fantasy she can't lead in reality. We feel for Amanda, a Southern belle in her day and exceedingly popular, once so beautiful and wioth so many suitors, so many offers in life, who now finds herself living in a miserable life with her chosen suitor--her chosen path--deserting her and left only with memories of a time gone by and the hopes she can live vicariously through a daughter that couldn't be less suited to her ideals, even less so in a world so changed and removed from the world and time she's trying to hold onto and relive. Even the Gentleman Caller, even someone who has a comparatively short amount of stage time and far fewer lines than the other three, even HE we can somewhat feel for as he's an outsider dragged into an uncomfortable household that, upon his visit, becomes even more so, and appropriately enough given the title, as careful as he wants to let the hopes of Amanda and Laura down, he knows he can't do it without shattering said hopes. There's a LOT of great symbolsim in this play, in a lot of Williams' plays, but especially this one, and the glass menagerie ITSELF, given the conext of Amanda's fixation on the rose-colored past, Tom's preoccupation with the movies to vicariously view the kinds of adventures he most dearly wants to lead and yet never can, and Laura's very nature, the menagerie itself is in my opinion Williams' best use of symbolism in ANY of his plays and one of the best uses of symbolism PERIOD in the 20th century. All of THAT and so much more--from a play with three main characters and one supporting man. So much in seemingly so little. All of this is more than enough to land the play on my Top 10 list, but it's the ENDING that takes it all the way up to #5--it's another one I dare not spoil, but suffice it to say that, true to the play, it comes like absoulte LIGHTNING...when I first read this play I was really thinking "When is the dramatic turn coming?" and then it hits in an absolutely spectacularly-devestating fashion. It IS so devestating, and what makes it even more so is that it comes so late in the play, at the very end, and so while the action alone is enough to be highly tragic, its made even more so by the fact there's practically no falling action or recovery time afterward--it happens, it shatters the characters' lives, and neither they nor the audience are left with any time to pick up the pieces.

4. Man and Superman by Shaw:

This is the sort of play that only gets better the more you know and the more you read and the more you LIVE. It's one of if not THE most actively-engaging play I've ever seen; you simply are forced to think while everything's going on, and what's more is you're forced to think fast, becuase the characters sure do, and to have any hope of understanding the play--and sometimes even just the basics of what's going on--you have to keep up with the frentic pace the characters set. To put it another way, if we were to think of the great pieces of literature as great musical pieces, this would be the literary equivalent of the incredibly-fast, incredibly-complex "Largo al factotum" from "The Barber of Seville." Even THAT, however, isn't enough for this work difficulty-wise, as not only does it have to move lightning-fast and force the audience to be extremely active and engaged, it is a LONG work, and I mean LONG--four acts, each an hour each, and that's with a frentic, Figaro-esque pace, any slower or more tame and this piece carries on even longer. As a result this is, without a doubt, the most fatiguing piece on my list to take in; most plays on this list, while you certainly can and really should actively be engaged with them, will let you get by--albeit with a lesser experience--if you want to be a bit passive in your viewing. Not this work. You either are ready to keep up with Shaw or Shaw leaves you in the dust and NEVER offers a hand up or a chance to catch your breath, so you need to be in great analytical and viewing condition. ;) What makes all of this work, however, and makes you WANT to try and keep up with the frentic pace, long running time, and densely-philosophical dialogue and subject material is the fact that if you DO not only do you feel great for doing so--really, it IS an accomplishment if you can keep up with this work--but the subject matter, dialogue, plot, and characters are all so intruiging you genuinely want to keep up with all of them. And what is that subject matter? Simply put--everything. This is one of those plays that seems to touch upon--or at least tries to touch upon--everything, which certainly contributes to it's complexity and pace and length; so much is talked about that the play goes on and on, and the rapidity with which the characters will switch from one topic to another is such that you're forced to process so much quickly. Marriage, love, politics, the nature of humanity, the meaning of life, heaven and hell, good and evil, perspectivism, societal pressures--that's just a sampling of the major topics that come up in this work. As with all the other plays on this list, the characters, too, stand out; Jack Tanner, Ann, and Ramsden are simply unforgettable, and for a paly so provocative, not only will you likely take sides, but in doing so you make something of a statement about what you believe, and the supporting cast keeps the play going until the play goes to hell--literally. The third act, when you take in the play with no foreknowledge of what's to come, comes as a complete and utter shock and a once difficult and complex play becomes hellish in the best possible meaning of that term. Acts I and II center around the goings on in a Victorian-era group of people in first England and then, when they hit the road, in the countryside. Act III, however, completely changes the play, without warning, as instead of the highly-realistic Victorian setting that was just starting to become familiar, the action shifts to a proto-existentialist version of Hell, and with the change in scenery comes a partial change in characters; just as we were beginning to get used to Jack and Ann's frantic pace of debate and become intrigued in Violet's affairs these characters disappear for an act while their ACTORS portay new, highly-representative characters in hell, from Don Juann to a memorialized officer to a proper Spanish lady to the Devil, and just as we were beginning to become accustomed to the realism of their situation and dialogue we get perhaps the most prolonged metaphysical debate in theatrical history. The entire play is littered with allusions to many authors, Shakespeare and Dante in particular, and then this third act ups that level of allusion even more and introduces more figures, going so far as to not only make mention of figures like Wagner and then even more frequent mention of Nietzsche--whose Ubermensch, translated here, as it often is, as "Superman," is referenced by the title of the work--and going so far as to treat both of them almost as characters in that while they never appear their "actions" in heaven and hell are referred to. An allusion to "Abandon all hope ye who enter here" from Dante's The Inferno only adds to this feeling that, indeed, this IS a theatrical version of Dante's Hell, but instead of the circles and gruesome punsihments a seemingly-sublime, happy life is found, setting the stage for so much of the philosophical debate on all of the above and more--"Don Juan in Hell," as it's often referred to, is RELENTLESS in its pacing and material, and is not only the longest act of the play, but is in fact so long it's sometimes performed by itself. In the performance history of the play it's this third act that's so often scrutinized, not just over the sheer amount of material discussed or how it so raidcally and abruptly yet geniusly departs from the plot of the play, but if it will even be performed at all becomes a question, as the other three acts are, by themselves, enough for a very long performance, and so leaving in this act, longer than each of the other three, makes the play almost Shakespearean or Greek in its length, and as the days of epic Greek plays or day-long Shakespearean performances are long gone it's this third act that's often cut, and it's one of the few times a cut really bothers me in a production; in all fairness almost all productions feature cuts in their source material as, again, otherwise it's simply too long for our age of short attention spans, but this is a case where cutting, even though not doing so makes the play almost absurdly-long by modern standards, is simply out of the question in my opinoon, as that third act adds so much weight in every way to the piece that cutting it reduces one of the most philosophic plays of all-time to a fair period piece that then becomes "just" about love and marriage. Those elements alone are enough to make the work good, but it's that third act and the fleshing out of all those other ideas that, otherwise, are left being discussed only superficially, that makes this piece a masterpiece, and in all honesty, if you cannot handle the length or depth or pace of the paly with that thrid act left in, chances are you're probably not ready to take on this work of nearly-unparalleled complexity and pace. It's more than a mere piece of literature or a play--it's an EXPERIENCE, and an intense one at that, and one that MUST be experienced in full to be properly appreciated.

3. Macbeth by Shakespeare:

If you don't know why I'd rank this play so high...you need to get your eyes checked (and Is this a DAGGER I see before me?!) ;)

2. Waiting For Godot by Sameul Beckett:

SEE this play, DON'T READ IT, at least not the first time you decide to experience it. As much as Shakespeare's palys are even better when seen and Ibsen's are rather dry just read, this is a play that absolutely needs to be seen because if you DON'T see it I'd argue you don't actually know the work, it depends that much upon your actually seeing it and there being actual actors to play the roles of Didi, Gogo, Pozzo, and Lucky and paly them well. As much as Man and Superman can be very existential-sounding at times and many other plays, including the oft-compared Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead, have some great existential themes and ideas, the aformentioned R&G so much so it's really a second Godot mingled with the plot of the already-somewhat-existential Hamlet, this work is the theatrical BIBLE on existentialism and modern theatre. and if you have a questiuon as to why that might be, for a VERY short answer, take a good look at the last word of the title, how close that is to ANOTHER word, and the fact that this play was debuted in the post-WWII, post-Holocaust world. Waiting for...? And--spoiler alert--the fact that Mr. GODOT never comes...but always sends a messenger to tell Didi and Gogo he'll "definitely" come the next day, as hard as days are to distinguish for the pair, as their lives appear meaningless and that the two lack a distinct "self" about them for the most part, as they're really two halves of one whole and you have just the most basic and surface elements of what makes this play the product of the thought of Kierkegaard, Nietzsche, Camus, Sartre, and the other existentialist philosophers. What elevates Godot even more, however, on top of all that, is that fact that it's the paly that breaks nearly all the rules of storytelling and yet somehow emerges a masterpiece. There is no plot--two men wait for someone who never come and are met by a couple other men who are on their way to somewhere else. That's IT. In terms of a traditional plot, that's ALL there is to this work. There are only four characters, five if you count the messenger who comes in at the end of each act to give his two lines or so of dialogue. Of those four characters, only three speak with any sort of frequency, as Lucky speaks ONCE...and oh the things he has to say! If I ever do a Top 10 for monologues, Lucky's would have to rank highly on there as not only is it deep, hilarious, tragic, and philosophically puzzling all at the same time, it's the ONLY lines of dialogue the character gives the entire paly, and it comes about two thirds through the second act of a two-act play--there's been nearly an entire play's worth of buildup for this speech, and so when it finally comes out it carries even MORE weight, and what makes it all the harder is that it's supposed to be said lightning-fast...and so if you're watching the play for the first time and have no forewarning about this speeech coming you're most likely going to be caught completely offguard by it...if there were such a thing as a "drive-by monologuing" this would be it. Lucky is, in fact, one of the reasons this play needs to be scene--with the exception of that one long and incredibly-difficult monologue Lucky's a mute the entire play but his body language and actions onstage add so much to the piece that if it's not seen a good deal has been lost. As with other existential plays, like R&G and, to an extent, Man and Superman, symbolism is huge in Godot, as it can be argued that even the characters themselves are symbols. The rock, the tree, their bowler hats, Pozzo's props...everything has an existential meaning. Again, however, all of this takes place in a play with practically no plot, and yet for all of that it's incredibly hilarious in the vaudville-style of performance and at the same time incredibly tragic--Didi and Gogo are lost in life, they're miserable the way they are, they're trapped by their own incomplete nature, and even comment on this point, repeatedly trying to leave one another only to come rushing back and finding relief at the sight of the other...because as miserable as they might be together, wating for help that will never come, in a desolate, God-forsaken (perhaps LITERALLY God-foraken, if, again, the title is to be taken into account) wasteland, their only food radishes, their only way of apssing time attempting to sleep or to argue or to engage in such menial tasks as swapping hats or pulling off a boot, their only contact being two people who are of absolutely no help and yet they speak to each time just out of their sheer need to talk to someone else and make human contact...inspite of how bad all of THAT is, in their life waiting for Mr. Godot together, life seems even worse facing all that ALONE. Perhaps the most powerful part of the play and one of the reasons--all those incredibly symbolic, literary, and philosophical reasons already stated--it remains one of the most performed and poured over plays today is the fact that this is a very hard work to get a feeling about, and after seeing it for the first time there's a good chance you won't know HOW to feel about it. It's so hilarious and fantastic, the goings on so absurd--and yet that's also what makes it so tragic and chilling, that as absurd as the work SEEMS...how absurd and far from the truth is it REALLY? Sartre famously said "Hell is other people," and ironically enough it's the one person that never comes that makes Didi and Gogo's life a living hel and, as the second act indicates, very possibly a perpetual hell, and, perhaps most chilling of all, a hell that doesn't seem to have a way out. What if Didi and Gogo stopped waiting for Godot to come? They're so misrable and utterly lost in life without him, and only the hope they have each day that Godot WILL come each day and help them--though with what they admit they're not quite sure anymore, they think they might have forgotten and will need help remmebering what their problem even is in the first place--and without that hope life certainly seems hopeless for them...they CAN leave, CAN stop waiting for Godot, but their fear brings them back and so they ultimately CAN'T leave, and so even worse than a golden cage they're trapped in a cage with no bars or barriers but themselves, and they can't seperate as without each otehr they're left even more incomplete and unable to function; they're free as a bird and yet trapped as a rat. Even their attempts at suicide don't work, they're FORCED to live out this hell...and if Didi and Gogo can't break free of their hell which, it seems, they at least partially create for themselves, can we hope to escape our own demons, or are we doomed to wait out life, with each tomorrow and each hope proving empty and leading the next, enterance after entrance into a hell from which there is No Exit?

1. Hamlet by Shakespeare:

Given how much I've written for the OTHER plays on this list...suffice it to say a write up of even a few of the reasons why I'd rank Hamlet #1 would probably run as long as the rest of the entire list, and so I'll just leave it at that, with the Great Dane in the top slot, and "the rest is silence."

kelby_lake
01-18-2011, 11:07 AM
Nice list :) I'll have a think and post mine.

OrphanPip
01-18-2011, 11:48 AM
Pretty Good list.

10. Tartuffe - Moliere
9. The Country Wife - William Wycherly
8. The Glass Menagerie - Williams (arguably my personal favourite though)
7. The Tempest - Shakespeare
6. Hedda Gabler - Ibsen
5. Mrs. Warren's Profession - Shaw
4. Phaedra - Racine
3. Waiting for Godot - Beckett
2. Oedipus Rex - Sophocles
1. Hamlet - Shakespeare

stlukesguild
01-18-2011, 02:40 PM
Ten when applied to plays is simply too small of a number... I could almost fill that number with Shakespeare alone. 10 is far too constrictive of a number in trying to select a list of the 10 "greatest" plays. Rather, what I offer is a list of the 10 "greatest" playwrights and a list of their essential works... IMO:

1. William Shakespeare- Macbeth, King Lear, Othello, Hamlet, A Midsummer Nights Dream, The Tempest
2. Sophocles- The Oedipus Trilogy
3. Aeschylus- The Oresteia
4. Henrik Ibsen- Peer Gynt, A Doll's House, Ghosts, Hedda Gabler, An Enemy of the People
5. Euripides- Medea, Elektra, Iphigenia at Aulis, Bacchae
6. Moliere- Tarftuffe, School for Wives, The Misanthrope, The Learned Ladies
7. George Bernard Shaw-Pygmalion, Major Barbara, Saint Joan, Man and Superman
8. Goethe- Faust I & II, Egmont, Goetz von Berlichingen
9. Samuel Beckett- Waiting for Godot, Endgame, Krapp's Last Tape
10. Tennessee Williams- The Glass Menagerie, Suddenly, Last Summer, Cat on a Hot Tin Roof, Streetcar Named Desire

Cheating even further I'd throw in an 11th:

11. Friedrich Dürrenmatt- The Physicists and The Visit

I don't imagine this in any way amounts to a list of even the greatest playwrights for I am admittedly limited to what I have read... and often to what I have read in translation. MortalTerror will undoubtedly champion Racine and Corneille... and I'll not dispute him here not having read much by other... and nothing in good translation (I'm working upon correcting this). I'm also less than really familiar with the towering figures of the Golden Age of Spanish theater: Calderón de la Barca, Fernando de Rojas, Lope de Vega, Tirso de Molina, and even Cervantes. Later we have Unamuno and Garcia-Lorca. And then there's Checkov, Brecht, Schiller, Hugo von Hofmannsthal, Heinrich von Kleist, Lessing, Goldini, Machiavelli, Aristophanes, Beaumarchais, Marivaux, Jean Genet, Pirandello, etc...

kelby_lake
01-18-2011, 03:41 PM
Ten is much too small a number, therefore this list will be a selection of ten of my favourite plays as opposed to a ranked list.

A Midsummer Night's Dream by William Shakespeare

The best and most accessible Shakespearean comedy, this appeals to people of all ages. Anybody who does amateur theatre will see members of their group reflected in the Mechanicals. The roles of Hippolyta and Theseus are often doubled with Titania and Oberon to draw a thematic link. The forest takes on a symbolic meaning, as a sort of phase that lovers have to go through before they are happily married.

It can be played as a chaste comedy of misunderstandings but nowadays is portrayed as a darker, more sexual piece. The versatility and good structure of the play means that even a relatively amateur production will get laughs and when done well, it is a great night's entertainment.

Oleanna by David Mamet

Not the most Mamety play and as such it is unfairly looked over. It is a short two-hander, all set in a university professor's office. The premise of the play is controversial and it continues to divide both critics and audiences.

Basically, a pretentious smug university professor offers to give a failing student from a poor background an A. He puts a hand on her shoulder. She then accuses him of sexual harrassment.

It is an electric exchange between the two characters and there are a variety of interpretations. The play looks at gender, politics, class, education, power, language, and interpretation. Neither character is pleasant (well, how many pleasant characters are there in Mamet's plays?) and this moral ambiguity makes for great drama.

Educating Rita by Willy Russell

A modern update (well, modern in the eighties) of Pygmalion. It's a two hander set entirely in a university professor's office (popular setting, hey?): Rita, a working-class young woman, is determined to culture herself. She joins an Open University course and her drunken acerbic lecturer Frank introduces her to the world of literature, and consequently, the world of the cultured bourgeouisie. But is that who she wants to be?

Great comic play full of literature allusions that bibliophiles will laugh at and also be able to see parallels between the books Rita studies and what happens in the play.



List to be continued...

mortalterror
01-19-2011, 12:34 AM
1. William Shakespeare- Macbeth, King Lear, Othello, Hamlet, A Midsummer Nights Dream, The Tempest
2. Sophocles- The Oedipus Trilogy
3. Aeschylus- The Oresteia
4. Henrik Ibsen- Peer Gynt, A Doll's House, Ghosts, Hedda Gabler, An Enemy of the People
5. Euripides- Medea, Elektra, Iphigenia at Aulis, Bacchae
6. Moliere- Tarftuffe, School for Wives, The Misanthrope, The Learned Ladies
7. George Bernard Shaw-Pygmalion, Major Barbara, Saint Joan, Man and Superman
8. Goethe- Faust I & II, Egmont, Goetz von Berlichingen
9. Samuel Beckett- Waiting for Godot, Endgame, Krapp's Last Tape
10. Tennessee Williams- The Glass Menagerie, Suddenly, Last Summer, Cat on a Hot Tin Roof, Streetcar Named Desire

Cheating even further I'd throw in an 11th:

11. Friedrich Dürrenmatt- The Physicists and The Visit

I don't imagine this in any way amounts to a list of even the greatest playwrights for I am admittedly limited to what I have read... and often to what I have read in translation. MortalTerror will undoubtedly champion Racine and Corneille... and I'll not dispute him here not having read much by other... and nothing in good translation (I'm working upon correcting this). I'm also less than really familiar with the towering figures of the Golden Age of Spanish theater: Calderón de la Barca, Fernando de Rojas, Lope de Vega, Tirso de Molina, and even Cervantes. Later we have Unamuno and Garcia-Lorca. And then there's Checkov, Brecht, Schiller, Hugo von Hofmannsthal, Heinrich von Kleist, Lessing, Goldini, Machiavelli, Aristophanes, Beaumarchais, Marivaux, Jean Genet, Pirandello, etc...

I'm largely in agreement with your list, although I'm not really a fan of Corneille. I just don't find any of his characters believable. But yeah add to your list

1.Calderon- Life is a Dream
2.Kalidasa- Sakuntala and the Ring of Recollection
3.Aristophanes- Lysistrata
4.Plautus- The Pot of Gold
5.Seneca- Thyestes
6.Chikamatsu- The Battles of Coxinga
7.Izumo- Chushingura
8.Xianzu- The Peony Pavilion
9.Shifu- Romance of the Western Chamber
10.Chekhov- The Cherry Orchard
11.Strindberg- Miss Julie
12.Anonymous- Everyman
13.Buchner- Danton's Death
14.O'Neill- Long Days Journey Into Night
15.Pirandello- Six Characters in Search of an Author
16.Miller- Death of a Salesman
17.Wedekind- Spring Awakening
18.Schnitzler- La Ronde
19.De Vega- Fuente Ovejuna
20.Goldoni- The Servant of Two Masters
21.Sudraka- The Little Clay Cart
22.Pinter- The Homecoming
23.Albee- Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?
24.Brecht- Caucasian Chalk Circle
25.Gay- The Beggar's Opera
26.Machiavelli- The Mandrake
27.Schiller- William Tell
28.Anouilh- Antigone
29.Ionesco- The Bald Soprano
30.Kushner- Angels in America
31.Marivaux- Game of Love and Chance
32.Gozzi- Love For Three Oranges
33.Stoppard- The Coast of Utopia
34.Corneille- The Cid
35.Beaumarchais- The Barber of Seville
36.Hugo- Hernani
37.Ostrovsky- The Storm
38.Gogol- The Inspector General
39.Turgenev- A Month in the Country
40.Gorky- The Lower Depths
41.Goldsmith- She Stoops to Conquer
42.Addison- Cato
43.Lessing- Minna Von Barnhelm
44.Lorca- Blood Wedding
45.Genet- The Maids
46.Hauptmann- The Weavers
47.Jarry- Ubu Roi
48.Molina- The Trickster of Seville
49.Kleist- Penthesilea
50.Jonson- Volpone
51.Webster- The Duchess of Malfi
52.Marlowe- The Jew of Malta
53.Kyd- The Spanish Tragedy
54.Ford- Tis Pity She's a Whore
55.Dryden- All For Love
56.Dekker- The Shoemaker's Holiday
57.Middleton- The Changeling
58.Tourneur- The Revenger's Tragedy
59.Fletcher- The Maid's Tragedy
60.Massinger- A New Way to Pay Old Debts
61.Congreve- The Way of the World
62.Farquhar- The Beaux Stratagem
63.Sheridan- The School For Scandal
64.Synge- The Playboy of the Western World
65.Wilder- Our Town
66.Wilson- Fences
67.Wycherley- The Country Wife
68.Etherege- The Man of Mode
69.Wilmot- The Farce of Sodom
70.Behn- The Rover
71.Terence- The Brothers
72.Menander- The Miser
73.Eliot- Murder in the Cathedral
74.Shelley- Prometheus Unbound
75.Byron- Manfred
76.Alfieri- Saul
77.Wilde- The Importance of Being Ernest
78.Voltaire- Merope
79.Milton- Samson Agonistes
80.Tasso- Aminta
81.Ariosto- The Supposes
82.Mamet- Glengarry Glen Ross
83.Vondel- Lucifer
84.Rojas- Celestina
85.Goldman- The Lion in Winter
86.Racine- Phaedra
87.Gilbert and Sullivan- The Mikado
88.Zhiyuan- Autumn in Han Palace
89.Junxiang- The Orphan of Chao
90.Zeami- The Wind in the Pines
91.Soyinka- Death and the King's Horseman
92.Beddoes- Death's Jest Book
93.Hanqing- Injustice to Dou E
94.Renfu- Rain on the Paulownia Tree
95.Zecheng- Romance of the Lute
96.Lesage- Turcaret
97.Rostand- Cyrano de Bergerac
98.Sartre- No Exit
99.Otway- Venice Preserv'd
100.Dumas fils- Camille

Hofmannsthal and Metastasio deserve to be dealt with elsewhere as librettists.

Jozanny
01-19-2011, 01:19 AM
I hate lists, but as intricate as Williams is, and as internationally recognized as A Doll House remains, I would not include them in a top ten. Great theater? Yes, but not of all time, in a list of only ten. Too superlative for me.

Mutatis-Mutandis
01-19-2011, 01:20 AM
The only play I've ever read and enjoyed is Oscar Wilde's The Importance of Being Ernest. I also realize this probably deserves no place on a top ten list.

I've never really gotten into plays, reading or viewing. I know I could, but there's only so much time, and right now I'm trying to get into classical music and opera. Maybe somewhere down the road.

Jozanny
01-19-2011, 01:45 AM
The only play I've ever read and enjoyed is Oscar Wilde's The Importance of Being Ernest. I also realize this probably deserves no place on a top ten list.

I've never really gotten into plays, reading or viewing. I know I could, but there's only so much time, and right now I'm trying to get into classical music and opera. Maybe somewhere down the road.

Plays need to be experienced, not simply analyzed as text and character. Live theater is closer to satisfying spiritual needs than mere reading alone, and I sadly don't get enough in my middle age. Indeed, Measure for Measure is one of my favorites from Shakespeare for being baffling, and there was an interesting adaptation in Germantown I would have loved to see, but couldn't find a companion to travel with me, and missed the run as a result.

You cannot fit theater like this into top ten lists, though I know I'm scolding.

Lord Macbeth
01-19-2011, 02:47 AM
I hate lists, but as intricate as Williams is, and as internationally recognized as A Doll House remains, I would not include them in a top ten. Great theater? Yes, but not of all time, in a list of only ten. Too superlative for me.

Well, lists are all in fun...

But really--you wouldn't place Ibsen OR Williams on a Top 10 list?

What yould you place on such a lsit, then, just out of curiosity?

(Don't take that as an attack, just curious...) :)

Jozanny
01-19-2011, 03:10 AM
If one must be the ultimate in superlative terms, Macbeth, I'd be cautious about Euro-centrism, one, and two, I've had only minimal theater studies, excluding Shakespeare, and three, I'm working.

Ibsen, in critical terms, is ranked second in terms of popularity, outranked only by Shakespeare--but Ibsen ushered in western realism as a movement, and he is too sophisticated, in that sense, to be in an elemental top ten list. Ibid for Williams.

I'll get back to you.

Lord Macbeth
01-19-2011, 03:59 AM
If one must be the ultimate in superlative terms, Macbeth, I'd be cautious about Euro-centrism, one, and two, I've had only minimal theater studies, excluding Shakespeare, and three, I'm working.

Ibsen, in critical terms, is ranked second in terms of popularity, outranked only by Shakespeare--but Ibsen ushered in western realism as a movement, and he is too sophisticated, in that sense, to be in an elemental top ten list. Ibid for Williams.

I'll get back to you.

Ibsen is "too sophisticated" to be on a list? And ditto Williams?

How is sophistication a negative in terms of listing, if anything I'd think the more sophisticated and complex the work the greater it is thus INCREASING it's chances of making an albeit-arbitrary Top 10 list.

Sancho
01-19-2011, 04:09 AM
Plays need to be experienced, not simply analyzed as text and character. Live theater is closer to satisfying spiritual needs than mere reading alone, and I sadly don't get enough in my middle age. Indeed, Measure for Measure is one of my favorites from Shakespeare for being baffling, and there was an interesting adaptation in Germantown I would have loved to see, but couldn't find a companion to travel with me, and missed the run as a result.

You cannot fit theater like this into top ten lists, though I know I'm scolding.

It's good to hear your voice again on these forums, Jozanny. Welcome back.

Lord Macbeth
01-19-2011, 07:36 AM
Ten when applied to plays is simply too small of a number... I could almost fill that number with Shakespeare alone. 10 is far too constrictive of a number in trying to select a list of the 10 "greatest" plays. Rather, what I offer is a list of the 10 "greatest" playwrights and a list of their essential works... IMO:

1. William Shakespeare- Macbeth, King Lear, Othello, Hamlet, A Midsummer Nights Dream, The Tempest
2. Sophocles- The Oedipus Trilogy
3. Aeschylus- The Oresteia
4. Henrik Ibsen- Peer Gynt, A Doll's House, Ghosts, Hedda Gabler, An Enemy of the People
5. Euripides- Medea, Elektra, Iphigenia at Aulis, Bacchae
6. Moliere- Tarftuffe, School for Wives, The Misanthrope, The Learned Ladies
7. George Bernard Shaw-Pygmalion, Major Barbara, Saint Joan, Man and Superman
8. Goethe- Faust I & II, Egmont, Goetz von Berlichingen
9. Samuel Beckett- Waiting for Godot, Endgame, Krapp's Last Tape
10. Tennessee Williams- The Glass Menagerie, Suddenly, Last Summer, Cat on a Hot Tin Roof, Streetcar Named Desire

Not a bad list...my version:

1. Shakespeare (Of course)
2. Sophocles (The Oedipus Cylce ALONE is enough to land him here)
3. Euripides (Simply an incredible playwright with MANY powerful works)
4. Shaw (A toss-up between he and Ibsen here; Shaw gets the edge on the sheer volume of produced material)
5. Ibsen (Arguably the greatest feminist playwright ever)
6. Aristophanes (the father of comedy, preceding Moliere)
7. Beckett (The impact of Godot alone...that and his other works makes him an easy fit here)
8. Marlowe (If not for a certain Billy Shakespeare we could very well all be in awe of the MARLOVIAN Theatre...)
9. Tenessee Williams (The greatest American playwright, hands down)
10. Plautus (Without HIM we arguably don't ever get the man at #1...)

Notes:

-I regard Goethe more as a poet and storyteller than a playwright, really, so with so many other deserving names I left him off, but in a POET'S Top 10, he'd certainly make the list

-A tough cut for me was Arthur Miller, Death of a Salesman and The Crucible were and are both highly relevant and extrmely powerful commentaries on American culture

-Another tough cut: Thornton Wilder, another great with two titanic plays to his credit, The Skin of Our Teeth and Our Town, both Pulitzer-winning plays

-Moliere has Tartuffe and The Imaginary Invalid to his name, but there's only so much room for comedy on a Top 10 for all the plays of Western Civilization, and as Aristophanes started it all I felt him more deserving of the slot, and with Shakespeare and Shaw composing comedies and satires as well, the list has plenty already, but it's still a tough call

-The same may be said for Oscar Wilde here

Consider them "Honorable Mentions," as it were...or, perhaps...

As You like it. ;)

OrphanPip
01-19-2011, 09:59 AM
I wouldn't call Ibsen a feminist though, he's more of an individualist with existentialist leanings.

Edit: Shaw actually had a more avowed feminist stance, he was involved in the political feminist causes.

Niamh
01-19-2011, 02:26 PM
Oh this is going to be a tough list to comprise....

For me they are as follows

1) Hamlet- William Shakespeare
2) The Caucasian Chalk Circle- Bertolt Brecht
3) Antigone- Sophocles
4) Mankind- Anonymous
5) Observe the Sons of Ulster Marching Towards the Somme- Frank McGuinness
6) the Playboy of the Western World- J.M.Synge
7) The Island- Fugard, Kani and Ntshona
8) The Inspector General- Nikolai Gogol
9) Doctor Faustus- Christopher Marlowe
10) The Cherry Orchard- Anton Chekhov

The Comedian
01-19-2011, 02:45 PM
Plays need to be experienced

I know I'm weird about this -- but, in all honesty, I rather read a play than see one. In fact, I'd rather make a trip to the toilet with a copy of a Shakespeare play than to actually see the performance of a Shakespeare play. I'm horrible at watching live theater. I just see actors pretending to be other people. There's just no reality there for me. . . .

But this is a side issue. . .sort of, as it affects my top ten plays (that I've read): So if this list is incomplete, or leaves out a great play write, well, it's probably because I never read it.

Here goes:

10. Richard III (I really like the bard's histories)
9. Simpatico
8. Oedipus Rex
7. M. Butterfly
6. Waiting for Godot
5. Long Day's Journey into Night
4. Hamlet
3. Lysistrata
2. Dr. Faustus
1. Medea

Niamh
01-19-2011, 02:57 PM
Long days journey into night! Great choice!

Lokasenna
01-19-2011, 03:04 PM
I'm surprised that Ben Jonson isn't cropping up much. Or Richard Brinsley Sheridan for that matter...

If I ever find time to make my own list, it'll be positively flooded with Renaissance drama...

Niamh
01-19-2011, 03:22 PM
I like Sheridan, but he wouldnt be in my top ten. twenty maybe...

kelby_lake
01-19-2011, 03:34 PM
Long days journey into night! Great choice!

Agreed.

mortalterror
01-19-2011, 04:31 PM
Niamh, you're Irish, so there's a chance you might be able to answer a question for me. What is Yeat's best play? I've only read Cathleen ni Houlihan.

kelby_lake
01-19-2011, 06:26 PM
Niamh, you're Irish, so there's a chance you might be able to answer a question for me. What is Yeat's best play? I've only read Cathleen ni Houlihan.

If you want Irish drama, JM Synge and Sean O'Casey are your bets.

mortalterror
01-19-2011, 07:19 PM
If you want Irish drama, JM Synge and Sean O'Casey are your bets.
Thank you for the suggestion; but for my money, I'd rather see Endgame, Lady Windermere's Fan, Pygmalion, or She Stoops to Conquer than Juno and the Paycock. The Playboy of the Western World didn't really bowl me over any more than Sheridan's School For Scandal. My question was really just about Yeats. I assume that his work gets a bigger send up in Ireland than it does in the states, where he is known primarily as a poet.

mortalterror
01-19-2011, 08:17 PM
If I had to limit myself to 10 and not 110 as I chose previously, I think I would pick:

1.Shakespeare- Hamlet

The best of the best, doing what he does best. A thoughtful, varied, and deeply personal introspective play about life, wrapped in the packaging of a revenge thriller.

2.Aeschylus- Orestea

The same story as above but told with a streamlined plot that actually makes sense, along with a clearer moral guideline about justice, ethics, and the cycle of violence.

3.Sophocles- Oedipus Cycle

The greatest master of plot in dramatic history. It blings so bright because it is actually stripped of all that glitters. He doesn't have the rhetorical flourish of his peers, but what he lacks in polish he makes up for in clarity.

4.Euripides- Medea

Only such a genius could take feminism to such a dark place, where you feel badly for victims and victimizer alike, and the most irrational of actions makes perfect psychological sense.

5.Racine- Athaliah

I don't really like the story of Phaedra as much as most people do, so I pick Athaliah for Racine's greatest play. It's a masterpiece which is an entirely original creation of his own, not merely adapted from Euripides. This biblical story comes alive with the passion that only Racine can bring to his characters.

6.Calderon- Life is a Dream

This beautiful atmospheric poem feels like a modern existential or surrealist drama, where a man questions his identity, his sanity, and his reality.

7.De Vega- Fuente Ovejuna

This magnificent work has the flow and rhythm of Shakespeare, but without quite his flourish for words. It is a touching drama about group identity and what people in society owe to each other.

8.Seneca- Thyestes

Written in a kind of high octave, majestic grandeur that can seem pompous today, this bloody, hate filled, haunted play dances out at the very razor's edge border of good taste and somehow manages to succeed. It is a tale of extremes, told like a nightmare vision of madmen locked in a personal hell. The origin of all Elizabethan tragedy, and the revenge play in particular.

9.Beckett- Waiting For Godot

A poetic language of pauses, silence, and things not said. A play where absence is meaning.

10.O'Neill- Long Day's Journey Into Night

The modern dysfunctional family told better than Ibsen ever did, with a naturalness Chekhov would envy.

A)I wouldn't put Goethe's Faust up for a top 10 list, because although it is a masterpiece of literature it isn't a particularly good play.

B)If I had a little more room I'd include some comedies.

C)I wish I had more experience with Chinese, Japanese, and Sanskrit drama so my list wouldn't be so Eurocentric. The dramatic structure of Sanskrit doesn't click right, and I am positively confused by puppet, kabuki, and noh theater.

Alexander III
01-19-2011, 08:57 PM
Out of curiosity, does anyone on the forums prefer Racine to Shakespeare; or is it just me

OrphanPip
01-19-2011, 09:37 PM
Out of curiosity, does anyone on the forums prefer Racine to Shakespeare; or is it just me

I think it's just at some level that Early Modern French obsession with formal structure takes a little bit of the charm away from Racine. I think it's also why most people prefer Shakespeare's Antony and Cleopatra over Dryden's French influenced All For Love. Also, Alexandrine metre is difficult to translate because it has a tendency to slow down reading in English, which has fewer multi-syllabic words than French.

stlukesguild
01-19-2011, 09:49 PM
In other words... its just you.:biggrin5:

mortalterror
01-19-2011, 09:49 PM
Out of curiosity, does anyone on the forums prefer Racine to Shakespeare; or is it just me

A little, in sort of the same way I prefer Ovid to Virgil, largely as a matter of personal taste. There are ways that writers like Racine or Hemingway speak to me more directly, more profoundly than Dante or Homer ever could.


In other words... its just you.:biggrin5:

Not at all. It's the difference between Aeschylus and Euripides. One's about a 9.9 and the other's a 9.7. Your subjective experience will be enough to push either one up or down a certain amount.


I think it's just at some level that Early Modern French obsession with formal structure takes a little bit of the charm away from Racine. I think it's also why most people prefer Shakespeare's Antony and Cleopatra over Dryden's French influenced All For Love. Also, Alexandrine metre is difficult to translate because it has a tendency to slow down reading in English, which has fewer multi-syllabic words than French.

I don't know if that's the correct analogy to make. It's good, but somewhat inaccurate. Dryden is a third or fourth rate playwright, whereas Racine and Shakespeare are both first rate. As a matter of quality it's inapt. For another thing, Racine and Corneille were imitating Greeks and Roman playwrights, whereas Dryden is imitating them.

Niamh
01-20-2011, 06:58 AM
Niamh, you're Irish, so there's a chance you might be able to answer a question for me. What is Yeat's best play? I've only read Cathleen ni Houlihan.

Cathleen Ni Houlihan is his famous one, but i really enjoyed his An Baile Strand and his Countess Cathleen. Land of Hearts Desire is suppose to be good but i've not read it. Yeats is really hit and miss when it comes to Drama in my opinion.

kasie
01-20-2011, 07:39 AM
I know I'm weird about this -- but, in all honesty, I rather read a play than see one. In fact, I'd rather make a trip to the toilet with a copy of a Shakespeare play than to actually see the performance of a Shakespeare play. I'm horrible at watching live theater. I just see actors pretending to be other people. There's just no reality there for me. . . .

I can only think you have never been fortunate enough to see a really good live performance, Comedian; or maybe you were not introduced to Live Theatre at an impressionable age :biggrin5:. I was coming up four when I was taken to my first pantomime - the Wolf (green for some reason) scared the living daylights out of me but next Christmas I was beside myself with anticipation for the next panto.

As for Shakespeare, you just must see it Live, there is nothing like it, the audience is part of the performance, good actors respond to its reactions, the rhythm of the play changes as the audience is drawn in to the flow of the drama. That's particularly noticable in a comedy but it happens in a tragedy as well and the Histories fairly bound along when the audience is enthralled. I think that's why I have been disappointed with filmed versions of productions I've seen live and been bowled over by (excuse the dangling preposition, please).

And, Alexander III, I got into terrible trouble with my Sixth Form French teacher when I said I vastly preferred Shakespeare to Racine, I just could not get on with those rhyming Alexandrines - but it was Andromaque versus King Lear/Winter's Tale for A levels at the time, so I'm afraid it was a No Contest or me.

Jozanny
01-20-2011, 05:45 PM
One of the top ten plays on my list would be the classical Japanese kabuki play The Mirror Lion; at sixteen hours in its original length, it is an endurance test, and it is about a lion who comes to life in human form.

Lord Macbeth
01-21-2011, 12:07 AM
If I had to limit myself to 10 and not 110 as I chose previously, I think I would pick:

1.Shakespeare- Hamlet

The best of the best, doing what he does best. A thoughtful, varied, and deeply personal introspective play about life, wrapped in the packaging of a revenge thriller.

2.Aeschylus- Orestea

The same story as above but told with a streamlined plot that actually makes sense, along with a clearer moral guideline about justice, ethics, and the cycle of violence.

3.Sophocles- Oedipus Cycle

The greatest master of plot in dramatic history. It blings so bright because it is actually stripped of all that glitters. He doesn't have the rhetorical flourish of his peers, but what he lacks in polish he makes up for in clarity.

4.Euripides- Medea

Only such a genius could take feminism to such a dark place, where you feel badly for victims and victimizer alike, and the most irrational of actions makes perfect psychological sense.

5.Racine- Athaliah

I don't really like the story of Phaedra as much as most people do, so I pick Athaliah for Racine's greatest play. It's a masterpiece which is an entirely original creation of his own, not merely adapted from Euripides. This biblical story comes alive with the passion that only Racine can bring to his characters.

6.Calderon- Life is a Dream

This beautiful atmospheric poem feels like a modern existential or surrealist drama, where a man questions his identity, his sanity, and his reality.

7.De Vega- Fuente Ovejuna

This magnificent work has the flow and rhythm of Shakespeare, but without quite his flourish for words. It is a touching drama about group identity and what people in society owe to each other.

8.Seneca- Thyestes

Written in a kind of high octave, majestic grandeur that can seem pompous today, this bloody, hate filled, haunted play dances out at the very razor's edge border of good taste and somehow manages to succeed. It is a tale of extremes, told like a nightmare vision of madmen locked in a personal hell. The origin of all Elizabethan tragedy, and the revenge play in particular.

9.Beckett- Waiting For Godot

A poetic language of pauses, silence, and things not said. A play where absence is meaning.

10.O'Neill- Long Day's Journey Into Night

The modern dysfunctional family told better than Ibsen ever did, with a naturalness Chekhov would envy.

A)I wouldn't put Goethe's Faust up for a top 10 list, because although it is a masterpiece of literature it isn't a particularly good play.

B)If I had a little more room I'd include some comedies.

C)I wish I had more experience with Chinese, Japanese, and Sanskrit drama so my list wouldn't be so Eurocentric. The dramatic structure of Sanskrit doesn't click right, and I am positively confused by puppet, kabuki, and noh theater.

To comment on the list because...I'm in the mood... ;)

1. Can't and won't disagree there! ;)

2. Another good choice...

3. A CYCLE? Oh, that's cheating! (Although cheating is, to a fair extent, to be allowed for, considering most of our playwrights here cheated by taking an idea or two from one or two others...including Mr. #1.) :D But in all seriousness, if I allowed for cycles...in all honesty I'd ask why the Oedipus Cycle doesn't beat out #2 with not one but TWO classics to its name (it seems to logically win out by sheer firepower, two great Greek tragedies vs. one) and I'd wonder if anyone would consider Shakespeare's Henriad for a spot; maybe it's my natural bias towards the Bard, but it IS after the Oedipus Cycle one of the best and most well-known in theatre...maybe and maybe not Top 10, but I could see a Top 20 landing for it, maybe...

4. Another great choice and another great play I love, and personally I'd rank it higher than #2...

5-7. Not very familiar with the authors...

8. Interesting choice, a philosopher--albeit perhaps Rome's beest--over Terence and Plautus

9. How does Godot NOT crack your Top 5?

10. Decent, but I wouldn't rank it Top 10.



I notice a lot of folks are only using one play per playwright...

Out of curiosity, is this being done to get 10 playwrights up there, one to a customer, so to speak, and no more, or does no one think that an author has two or more plays worthy of Top 10 notoriety (with the exception so far being the Cycles, but as we've established...that's cheating!) :p

Lord Macbeth
01-21-2011, 12:09 AM
Out of curiosity, does anyone on the forums prefer Racine to Shakespeare; or is it just me

:O

IS THIS A DAGGER I SEE BEFORE ME?

Take it back...or I'll decapitate you and blame it on a witch :p

JCamilo
01-21-2011, 02:07 AM
Not a bad list...my version:

-Moliere has Tartuffe and The Imaginary Invalid to his name, but there's only so much room for comedy on a Top 10 for all the plays of Western Civilization, and as Aristophanes started it all I felt him more deserving of the slot, and with Shakespeare and Shaw composing comedies and satires as well, the list has plenty already, but it's still a tough call

That is as logical as saying that mentioning Sophocles eliminate the need to mention all tragic poets. Shaw and Shakespeare just cannt do the comedies as much and as well Moliere (Shakespeare comedies are not a big deal, it is much better when he tragedies have comedy style) did. And with his style. It is a stronger and more influential tradtion than almost any continental writer and in comedy, only Cervantes seems to get close to him. Anyways...


-The same may be said for Oscar Wilde here

Consider them "Honorable Mentions," as it were...or, perhaps...

As You like it. ;)

The the superficial deep man is not that great. There will be a day, luckly, that all great lines of his plays, Dorian gray, poems will remembered while the rest forgotten. And ony his faery tales will remains, because frankly, his Nightingale and the Rose and Happy Prince own nothing to be short stories and have much more original irony than the rest...

Niamh
01-21-2011, 07:49 AM
I love Wildes Happy Prince. Its probably the only thing of Wildes i do like and thats saying something!


If you want Irish drama, JM Synge and Sean O'Casey are your bets.

As much as I love Synge, and like O'Casey, there are others i'd recommend. Frank McGuinness who made it into my top ten is amazing!Observe the sons of ulster marching towards the somme is probably one of the best plays to come out of this country in the 20th century. Brian Friel is one of our best. Philadelphia Here I Come, Translations, Aristocrats and Dancing at Lughnasa are all great! Seamus Heaney has even done some amazing adaptations. His Burial At Thebes is superb.

Lord Macbeth
01-21-2011, 08:11 AM
That is as logical as saying that mentioning Sophocles eliminate the need to mention all tragic poets. Shaw and Shakespeare just cannt do the comedies as much and as well Moliere (Shakespeare comedies are not a big deal, it is much better when he tragedies have comedy style) did. And with his style. It is a stronger and more influential tradtion than almost any continental writer and in comedy, only Cervantes seems to get close to him. Anyways...



The the superficial deep man is not that great. There will be a day, luckly, that all great lines of his plays, Dorian gray, poems will remembered while the rest forgotten. And ony his faery tales will remains, because frankly, his Nightingale and the Rose and Happy Prince own nothing to be short stories and have much more original irony than the rest...

Well, as I said, Moliere was a fine writer, I jsut don't consider him to be in the Top 10 as I will admit a bias I have and share with Nietsche and many other writers of his day and ilk--that TRAGEDY, and the grandiose, powerful, Greek and operatic and Shakespearean tragedies at that, as well as their modern-day contemporaries, THESE, I feel, are ON THE WHOLE more meritorious than comedies.

Just an opinion and preference, mind you, but that is my feeling, so it takes something extra for comedy to make my list, namely, it generally has to be either a dark, tragic comedy, in the way Godot is both very comedic and very tragic at the same time and on different levels, or else something must be unique about the comedy besides its being a remarkable piece within that genre; Arisophanes' Lysistrata sets the stage, one might argue, for most all further Western Comedy in some way another, the conventions there started or mastered are numerous, and as he's the first great comedic writer, THAT, then holds something extra and hence my reason for naming him over Moliere, who was a great comedic playwright, to be sure, and a brilliant satirist, but given my predisposition towards the tragic or else the bleakly comedic at the very least--or very most, depending upon your point of view--I wouldn't place him in the Top 10.



But then that's why this is YOUR list and not mine. :)

Lord Macbeth
01-21-2011, 08:33 AM
Out of curiosity, just since we're meandering through different lists anyway...

What about the plays that REALLY were special to you, not just as a great play or work of art, but I mean you saw or read these and REALLY felt like afterwards the world was different, or your outlook was changed, and things have never been the same since?

I myself can think of three instances:

-Hamlet, an obvious choice for ME, but it's true--after I took it in, it was such a RUSH...so many things going through my head...each idea more incredible than the last...and I STILL draw from Hamlet so extensively, I feel it's one of the VERY FEW works that you could quite conceivably read or see a few times every year for the rest of your life and still have at least one new, amazing idea or revelation or insight or what have you each time. It's simply a gold mine, and that's what I remember most about experiencing it for the first time, the feeling even then, so joyous, that I had found a work that was not only marvelous beyond belief, but in some sense had no end in that, again, I could always come back for something new, a new way of thinking or experiencing Hamlet, and so he's forever alive in that way to me, and I can go with him into that Undiscovered Country each time and it will REMAIN new and waiting to be discovered.

-Waiting For Godot, I had just started reading philosophy as a suggestion of my English teacher who told me I already made so many allusions and had such a good knowledge already of the classics for high school--ah, to be back in high school!--that I should branch out, get something new to talk about in my papers and a new way to think about literature and life. I can STILL remember spending so mucbh time just thinking about it, trying to SOLVE Godot analytically...I'm a great fan of existentialist and nihilist literature and philosophy, and of Camus, T.S. Eliot, Kafka, Kierkegaard, and most especially Nietzsche...ALL of whom I read as a result of having my mind blown whilst waiting for Godot.

-Man and Superman, I just listened to it not a few weeks ago and it's already in my Top 5 favorite plays, INCREDIBLE blending of the sort of "pure" literary style and sophistication that I knew and loved Shaw for (and loved in all literature I care for) and the philosophical ideas that came from Nietzsche and Kierkegaard. A pure mind-blower, and I couldn't and wouldn't stop listening (I actually snapped at a couple people coming into my room and probably shouldn't have, but I was so intent, so CAPTIVATED in a way I hadn't been since Hamlet or Godot or the first time reading though The Odyssey or the end of Le Morte d'Arthur. An experience to remember, to be sure!

kelby_lake
01-21-2011, 09:15 AM
I'd like to see more 20th century plays being discussed :)

And what is the deal with Lysistrata? I didn't find it funny at all.

keilj
01-21-2011, 11:12 AM
ones that I would put at the top are:

The Night of the Iguana by Tennessee Williams - Williams really manages to peel back the layers of people to reveal their humanity in this one

Death of a Salesman by Arthur Miller

Mrs. Warren's Profession by George Bernard Shaw - I was almost ready to give up on Shaw after reading the coldly philosophical Man and Superman and Apple Cart - but in this play Shaw lets his characters and dialog do the heavy lifting

The Crucible by Arthur Miller - incredibly taut, bulletproof storytelling and dialog in this one. I think this is a bit wasted on high school students, and should be read at an older age

Burning Bright by John Steinbeck - another human and earthly journey artfully brought to us by Steinbeck


I'm sure I'm forgetting a couple of others

OrphanPip
01-21-2011, 11:12 AM
Comedies don't have to be funny, they're just about social conflict, usually exemplified in European theater by the issues that arise around sexual relationships and marriage.

kelby_lake
01-21-2011, 01:38 PM
ones that I would put at the top are:

The Night of the Iguana by Tennessee Williams - Williams really manages to peel back the layers of people to reveal their humanity in this one

Death of a Salesman by Arthur Miller

Mrs. Warren's Profession by George Bernard Shaw - I was almost ready to give up on Shaw after reading the coldly philosophical Man and Superman and Apple Cart - but in this play Shaw lets his characters and dialog do the heavy lifting

The Crucible by Arthur Miller - incredibly taut, bulletproof storytelling and dialog in this one. I think this is a bit wasted on high school students, and should be read at an older age

Burning Bright by John Steinbeck - another human and earthly journey artfully brought to us by Steinbeck


I'm sure I'm forgetting a couple of others

Interesting choices :) The Night of The Iguana is an overlooked Williams play, as is Orpheus Descending.

keilj
01-21-2011, 01:58 PM
Interesting choices :) The Night of The Iguana is an overlooked Williams play, as is Orpheus Descending.

I enjoyed Tennessee's Sweet Bird of Youth also. In fact, I've liked all the stuff I've read by him so far.



(I also liked The Price by Arthur Miller quite a bit. But its focused scope probably keeps it from being an all-time top 10)

B. Laumness
01-21-2011, 02:30 PM
Comedies don't have to be funny, they're just about social conflict, usually exemplified in European theater by the issues that arise around sexual relationships and marriage.

Molière doesn’t make me burst out laughing; though, I would not say that his comedies are bad or they miss their point. His plays are comedies in the way that they highlight moral defects, vices of the society as well of the individual, and that they reveal at what extent these defects or vices are laughable. But this laugh is rather wit – Molière says “le rire de l’esprit”. Being thrifty is not a vice; avarice is (L’Avare). Nobody will blame the taste for knowledge, whereas one tends to disapprove pedantry (Les Femmes savantes). One sometimes needs to be alone and one cannot like everybody; but a misanthrope like Alceste is ridiculous. Religion would be respectable if there were not hypocritical devotees (Tartuffe). It’s perfectly sane to love women and to choose a liberty of thought, but, once again, a quality may become a defect or a vice when it tends to the excess. That being said, Dom Juan, which is my favorite play by Molière, is a bit peculiar, between comedy and drama; and the author remains ambiguous on many levels, working on a superior, rebellious, fascinating character despite his egoism and his hypocrisy. His valet, incarnation of a simple man, is rather the comical character, with his superstitions and his limited logic. Actually, as the spectator/reader, Sganarelle feels a kind of admiration for his master. I always imagine Don Juan, the eyes of an adventurer, running to the death with this music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nemAKvtXL8w).

kelby_lake
01-21-2011, 03:07 PM
Comedies don't have to be funny, they're just about social conflict, usually exemplified in European theater by the issues that arise around sexual relationships and marriage.

True, but it is clearly intended to be funny.

kelby_lake
01-21-2011, 03:09 PM
I enjoyed Tennessee's Sweet Bird of Youth also. In fact, I've liked all the stuff I've read by him so far.

Have you seen the film adaptation? It's bowdlerised (but then again, which Williams film wasn't at that time?) but still worth a watch. Paul Newman is brilliant as Chance :D

keilj
01-21-2011, 05:00 PM
Have you seen the film adaptation? It's bowdlerised (but then again, which Williams film wasn't at that time?) but still worth a watch. Paul Newman is brilliant as Chance :D

No I haven't. But if Newman is in it, I'll have to take a look. Thanks for the recommendation

kelby_lake
01-22-2011, 05:00 AM
No I haven't. But if Newman is in it, I'll have to take a look. Thanks for the recommendation

He's also great in Cat on A Hot Tin Roof :)

Lord Macbeth
01-22-2011, 05:13 AM
No I haven't. But if Newman is in it, I'll have to take a look. Thanks for the recommendation

If you like Tennessee Williams then I also HIGHLY recommend the movie version of The Glass Menagerie.

PERFECT film version...

Uroboros1989
01-22-2011, 08:06 AM
I'm glad that your list contains Samuel Beckett's plays!

kelby_lake
01-22-2011, 10:16 AM
If you like Tennessee Williams then I also HIGHLY recommend the movie version of The Glass Menagerie.

PERFECT film version...

The 1950 one or the 1987 one?

Lord Macbeth
01-22-2011, 05:33 PM
The 1973 one, actually, with Katharine Hepburn in the role of the motehr and Sam Waterston in the role of Tom.

It's a pretty faithful version, and Hepburn's great, as usual...

kelby_lake
01-23-2011, 09:07 AM
The 1973 one, actually, with Katharine Hepburn in the role of the motehr and Sam Waterston in the role of Tom.

It's a pretty faithful version, and Hepburn's great, as usual...

Oh, the TV one. Yeah, I saw that. It was good.

Snowqueen
01-24-2011, 03:59 AM
I haven’t read much plays, yet there are few plays which I thoroughly enjoyed reading. Most of these are considered classics and I think everyone should read them.


1- Shakespeare – Macbeth, Julius Caesar, Merchant of Venice.
2- Christopher Marlowe – Doctor Faustus
3- Ben Jonson – Volpone
4- George Bernard Shaw – Arms and the Men
5- T. S. Eliot – Murder in the Cathedral
6- Sophocles - Oedipus Rex