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PeterL
01-03-2011, 12:12 PM
moved

PeterL
01-04-2011, 04:34 PM
Don't be afraid to comment. I'm too far away to get my hands on you. I just got the first feedback, and that person thought the story was O.K.

Jack of Hearts
01-08-2011, 04:35 AM
Your reader confesses he didn't read all of this. He tried- once, three days ago and then again today.

You're working in the first person. That is such a wonderful playground because the voice itself is a very distinct character. Remember 'Catcher in the Rye'? Sean is no Holden. Sean might as well be a reporter, a two dimensional cut out. The narrative is abused for your purposes at much expense. Not very elegant and not very stylized. As it stands, this piece is sitting in that all too familiar writing limbo; no real style or craft per-se, just semi-cohesive elements attempting to push the plot forward.

The only suggestion this reader could make to you would be to read more. Read literature. Think about why you like the books that you like- what was the content? How was it expressed? When you have those ideas, apply them to your own stories. You seem to have a grasp of the fundamentals necessary to go deeper.


J

hillwalker
01-08-2011, 09:10 AM
I also struggled to read this in its entirety and gave up - skimming it in the end just to see if it was going anywhere. So it's unfair to base an opinion on such a cursory reading.....

Perhaps that's where this fails the most - it doesn't grip the reader (at least it did not grip me). It's not an easy read because the story does not flow particularly smoothly - and where it really drags one is tempted to skip a paragraph or two. Not the sign of a well-written story.

I will admit - you almost lost me right at the beginning with that title. The story was obviously going to revolve around someone having their beliefs (or lack of beliefs) brought into focus and perhaps reversed by a set of circumstances. So by the same token that closing sentence was a cheap shot most readers would see coming a mile off.

But for me its main weakness lies in the way it's written. Your language skills are not in doubt, but you present us with little more than a report of linked events.
This happens - then that happens - then something else happens.....
There's not much pause for reflection, no noticeable change of pace, no exciting plot development or intriguing character development. It's cold fare and not particularly appetising; nothing much to turn up the reader's emotional barometer or tickle his curiosity.

You have the bare bones of a story - and the necessary technical know-how - but you need to discover how to combine the two and breathe life into it. The only way is to read as much as you can and continue writing (perhaps in a less self-conscious, disciplined way for a while, to allow your creative juices to flow more freely).

Good luck

H

PeterL
01-08-2011, 12:15 PM
The only suggestion this reader could make to you would be to read more. Read literature. Think about why you like the books that you like- what was the content? How was it expressed? When you have those ideas, apply them to your own stories. You seem to have a grasp of the fundamentals necessary to go deeper.

J

Read More!? More than what? It's too late to read more.

I'm sorry that you couldn't read the whole thing. Reading on a monitor is a pain.

PeterL
01-08-2011, 12:21 PM
I also struggled to read this in its entirety and gave up - skimming it in the end just to see if it was going anywhere. So it's unfair to base an opinion on such a cursory reading.....

Perhaps that's where this fails the most - it doesn't grip the reader (at least it did not grip me). It's not an easy read because the story does not flow particularly smoothly - and where it really drags one is tempted to skip a paragraph or two. Not the sign of a well-written story.

Apparently that is a problem; people don't get hooked arly and well.


I will admit - you almost lost me right at the beginning with that title. The story was obviously going to revolve around someone having their beliefs (or lack of beliefs) brought into focus and perhaps reversed by a set of circumstances. So by the same token that closing sentence was a cheap shot most readers would see coming a mile off.

The last sentence simply rounds out everything, completes the resolution, but it also says something else aout the narrator, who was not the sharpest one around.


But for me its main weakness lies in the way it's written. Your language skills are not in doubt, but you present us with little more than a report of linked events.
This happens - then that happens - then something else happens.....
There's not much pause for reflection, no noticeable change of pace, no exciting plot development or intriguing character development. It's cold fare and not particularly appetising; nothing much to turn up the reader's emotional barometer or tickle his curiosity.

You have the bare bones of a story - and the necessary technical know-how - but you need to discover how to combine the two and breathe life into it. The only way is to read as much as you can and continue writing (perhaps in a less self-conscious, disciplined way for a while, to allow your creative juices to flow more freely).

H

I had started it as a full-length novel, but that got bogged down in details. For that reason, I wrote this to give some idea of the wholle without going into great detail.

I think you for your comments.

hillwalker
01-08-2011, 02:00 PM
I'm sad to see you write 'it is too late to read more' - are you saying you have read all the books you are ever likely to read in your lifetime? or that other writers having nothing more to teach you by example?
I'd be interested to discover how much you have actually read so far - 1000's of books? dozens? one or two at a push?

As for the problem that the story fails to grab the reader early enough - you might need to examine why. How come some stories hook the reader from the first line and others don't? There has to be a knack to it - and the best way to discover it is to take note of how other writers achieve the trick.

You mention the novel you had intended writing got bogged down in detail - well, that's the biggest problem with this story as well imo. It doesn't get a move on, possibly because you have tried to condense the novel into a short story rather than approach the entire exercise from scratch as a short story.
They are not meant to be cut-down novels - much of what happened before the 'action' and much of what might well follow is left out as being surplus to requirements when writing short stories.

And the final line rounding off the story - agreed, it made for a tidy conclusion, but it was signposted from the very start - that title.

H

PeterL
01-08-2011, 02:08 PM
I'm sad to see you write 'it is too late to read more' - are you saying you have read all the books you are ever likely to read in your lifetime? or that other writers having nothing more to teach you by example?
I'd be interested to discover how much you have actually read so far - 1000's of books? dozens? one or two at a push?

Not that is any of your business, but I have read many thousands of books. If I haven't read enough by now then there are enough.


As for the problem that the story fails to grab the reader early enough - you might need to examine why. How come some stories hook the reader from the first line and others don't? There has to be a knack to it - and the best way to discover it is to take note of how other writers achieve the trick.

It has grabbed some other readers right off. I suspect that the hook is not as general as might be better.


You mention the novel you had intended writing got bogged down in detail - well, that's the biggest problem with this story as well imo. It doesn't get a move on, possibly because you have tried to condense the novel into a short story rather than approach the entire exercise from scratch as a short story.
They are not meant to be cut-down novels - much of what happened before the 'action' and much of what might well follow is left out as being surplus to requirements when writing short stories.

I know better than you that a short story is not a condensed novel. The novel was only the starting point for this. This story is set after the novel and it looks back on some of the events. The details that I got bogged dow in were from the trial.


And the final line rounding off the story - agreed, it made for a tidy conclusion, but it was signposted from the very start - that title.
H

Yes, it was there from the beginning, and that is why I will leave it. It makes this story fully resolved. I realize that some people don't like having the plot resolved, but it isn't a short story unless there is plot resolution.

Jack of Hearts
01-08-2011, 03:27 PM
To clarify a previous critique:

'Reading on a monitor' was not the deterrent that stopped this reader from finishing your story. The atrocious technique is to blame for that. This is the only piece of yours that this reader has encountered so he is too unsampled to comment on your general skill level. But trust that to a well read person (admittedly not quite 'thousands of books') trying to read this piece was like forcing pastey oatmeal down one's throat.

Please understand this critique was an evaluation of the piece itself and not a de-valuing of you as a person.

cyberbob
01-08-2011, 03:38 PM
Have you heard the writing advice: "show don't tell"?

How is Ishtar's face "excellent" and why are her lips "inviting"? What do you mean when you describe the five-ten man as "solid"? I don't know if you mean muscular or just a large build.

And why use unnecessarily complex words like "convalescing" when the characters are speaking informally?

And REMOVE the phrase "curiouser and curiouser." Why steal lines from a children's story? Alice is supposed to be silly and absurd and its phrases don't belong with your style of narrative.

Get someone to proofread your story because I noticed some grammatical errors.

You need to polish your style more. "Nick typed something on the keyboard that it had instead of buttons." should be re-written because you're telling us some information as if we already knew it. It should read as an observation since this is first person and the narrator is experiencing this with the reader. ie "The elevator had no buttons, but instead a keyboard which Nicked used to control it."

cyberbob
01-08-2011, 03:50 PM
I could go on and on but this boils down the story being boring. Sci-fi writers and the like can get away with mediocre prose because their stories are so interesting. This has bad prose and doesn't make want to keep reading.

Your story never builds any momentum. Why should a reader care about the smell of barbecue or "one of those new churches" (which ones?) And why is the protagonist making sexual advances on a woman who is a client and he only just met?

PeterL
01-08-2011, 04:42 PM
To clarify a previous critique:

'Reading on a monitor' was not the deterrent that stopped this reader from finishing your story. The atrocious technique is to blame for that. This is the only piece of yours that this reader has encountered so he is too unsampled to comment on your general skill level. But trust that to a well read person (admittedly not quite 'thousands of books') trying to read this piece was like forcing pastey oatmeal down one's throat.

Please understand this critique was an evaluation of the piece itself and not a de-valuing of you as a person.

Apparently you don't know good writing. I don't know what kind of writing you like, but I am a good writer.

You might want to read this article to get an idea as to what constitutes good writing. http://www.gutenberg.org/files/3172/3172.txt

PeterL
01-08-2011, 04:50 PM
Have you heard the writing advice: "show don't tell"?

How is Ishtar's face "excellent" and why are her lips "inviting"? What do you mean when you describe the five-ten man as "solid"? I don't know if you mean muscular or just a large build.

Haven't you ever read a story that had a narrator who was a character?The narrator has opinions and inane observations, just like people. That is another technique for showing a character through the character's use of language, including turn of phrase.


And why use unnecessarily complex words like "convalescing" when the characters are speaking informally?

I and most Americans don't regard the word "convalescing" to be "complex" at all. It is the common word for convalescing.


And REMOVE the phrase "curiouser and curiouser." Why steal lines from a children's story? Alice is supposed to be silly and absurd and its phrases don't belong with your style of narrative.

It's too bad that you don't like that, but it is things like that that show characters.


Get someone to proofread your story because I noticed some grammatical errors.

I kind of doubt that. You might have seen something in dialogue that wasn't strictly grammatical, but that's dialogue.


You need to polish your style more. "Nick typed something on the keyboard that it had instead of buttons." should be re-written because you're telling us some information as if we already knew it. It should read as an observation since this is first person and the narrator is experiencing this with the reader. ie "The elevator had no buttons, but instead a keyboard which Nicked used to control it."

I did this one right. If you don't likeit, then so be it.

PeterL
01-08-2011, 04:57 PM
I could go on and on but this boils down the story being boring. Sci-fi writers and the like can get away with mediocre prose because their stories are so interesting. This has bad prose and doesn't make want to keep reading.

Your story never builds any momentum. Why should a reader care about the smell of barbecue or "one of those new churches" (which ones?)

I thank you. If you don't like it; that's fine with me.
The question of what makes good prose is simple to answer. Good prose is clear and it says what the author wants it to say. convoluted prose is never good, unless it is to show a character in dialogue.


And why is the protagonist making sexual advances on a woman who is a client and he only just met?

The main character did not make "sexual advances on a woman who is a client." The "woman" is a Goddess, and she is not a client, and it was she who made the "sexual advances".

hillwalker
01-08-2011, 05:03 PM
Not that is any of your business, but I have read many thousands of books. If I haven't read enough by now then there are enough.

You made it our business by stating that you had no intention of reading any more.


I did this one right. If you don't like it, then so be it.

Indeed - but if readers don't like it you're unlikely to sell many stories. However, if it's purely an exercise in writing for your own personal pleasure then there's no harm in that and I can see you put a lot of effort into it. But most who post on here appreciate constructive criticism - if you can't take it keep your efforts locked up in your drawer or share it with those who merely offer flattery as a courtesy rather than as a realistic appraisal of your abilities.


Apparently you don't know good writing. I don't know what kind of writing you like, but I am a good writer.

Again - the phrase 'show don't tell' comes to mind.

H

AuntShecky
01-08-2011, 05:39 PM
You've got to grab the reader in the very first paragraph, if not the first sentence. Begin "in medias res."

Less narration; more action-- aka "Show, don't tell."

By the bye, your narrator is perfectly correct in describing Ishtar as a goddess; but it's also the title of an old movie that's "legendary"-- but not for reasons that you might think:

http://www.film.com/movies/ishtar/story/erics-time-capsule-ishtar-may/28124157

Jack of Hearts
01-08-2011, 05:44 PM
Apparently you don't know good writing. I don't know what kind of writing you like, but I am a good writer.

For this reader's part, he's open to the possibility that he 'don't know good writing' as his self-value (or ego) is not contingent upon any literary talent he does or does not possess (and he makes no claim on that).

The majority of the responses are telling you this piece needs help.

However, majority doesn't make right. From the premise that the three of us are way off base, this reader has one more offering for you (and be assured, his responses are designed that they might help you or be useful, nothing more). He would encourage you to salvage something from what has been offered. It would be a shame if the efforts of others went to waste in the attempt to help you.

Having given as much as he is willing for this particular piece, this reader will refrain from further responses and await the next work you choose to exhibit.




J

cyberbob
01-08-2011, 05:46 PM
Grammatical errors:

"The walls were also wood, and it looked like it might have been from the same tree as the door." - You need to either change "wood" to "wooden" or say instead "made out of wood".

"Ishtar had been injured, and that shouldn't have been possible for a Goddess, or would it?" - Change either "shouldn't" to "wouldn't" or "would" to "should".

"I nodded understanding to Jim and took another sip." - It should be "understandingly" not "understanding".


There's probably more and I noticed some spelling mistakes too. Like I said, get someone to proofread it for you.

And after reading a bit more I've concluded that your biggest fault isn't that it's boring but like I had said, you tell, you don't show.

How is Ishtar's face excellent? How is the scone good?

THIS is an example of you describing things well with imagery: "It was filled with herbs, strong vegetables, and some tender meat."

Mutatis-Mutandis
01-08-2011, 06:54 PM
And why use unnecessarily complex words like "convalescing" when the characters are speaking informally?

"Convalescing" is a complex word? It's a great word.

It seems some people need to learn what constructive criticism is, rather than just being dicks.

cyberbob
01-08-2011, 07:14 PM
I mean that convalescing has a medical connotation and seems out of place in the story's context. It's usually used when someone is ill.

Healing or recovering would ft better but I suppose that's a matter of personal preference.

Nikhar
01-09-2011, 03:15 AM
I know that its no business of mine but i would still want to say something. Why bother posting a story for comments when you dont actually care for them? If you already know that your story is perfect, why make others read it and then mock at their suggestions rather than appreciate the time they put in to reading your story?

Anyways, when i read your responses to the criticisms, i thought that it must be a new guy to the forum, but i was shocked to find a 5000 odd post old guy behaving in such a manner.

Also in your Blog, you say that you welcome 'all sorts of comments'.

Apparently not.

hillwalker
01-09-2011, 07:04 AM
I know that its no business of mine but i would still want to say something. Why bother posting a story for comments when you dont actually care for them? If you already know that your story is perfect, why make others read it and then mock at their suggestions rather than appreciate the time they put in to reading your story?

Anyways, when i read your responses to the criticisms, i thought that it must be a new guy to the forum, but i was shocked to find a 5000 odd post old guy behaving in such a manner.

Also in your Blog, you say that you welcome 'all sorts of comments'.

Apparently not.

Couldn't have put this better myself. Bravo.

H

PeterL
01-09-2011, 09:52 AM
You made it our business by stating that you had no intention of reading any more.

Where did you get the idea that I do not intend to read any more books?


Indeed - but if readers don't like it you're unlikely to sell many stories. However, if it's purely an exercise in writing for your own personal pleasure then there's no harm in that and I can see you put a lot of effort into it. But most who post on here appreciate constructive criticism - if you can't take it keep your efforts locked up in your drawer or share it with those who merely offer flattery as a courtesy rather than as a realistic appraisal of your abilities.

I love critiques of my writing. I know what's good, but it's hard to see what's wrong. Your comments have not useful, because you have pointed to things that were just fine.


Again - the phrase 'show don't tell' comes to mind.

H

I'm geginning to doubt that you understand what that phrase means.

PeterL
01-09-2011, 09:54 AM
You've got to grab the reader in the very first paragraph, if not the first sentence. Begin "in medias res."

Less narration; more action-- aka "Show, don't tell."

By the bye, your narrator is perfectly correct in describing Ishtar as a goddess; but it's also the title of an old movie that's "legendary"-- but not for reasons that you might think:


Ishtar is a Goddess. She is one of the Gods that rule over the universe, which is why she is called a Goddess.

PeterL
01-09-2011, 10:01 AM
Grammatical errors:

"The walls were also wood, and it looked like it might have been from the same tree as the door." - You need to either change "wood" to "wooden" or say instead "made out of wood".

That is not an error. It is simply an matter of one's preferred usage.


"Ishtar had been injured, and that shouldn't have been possible for a Goddess, or would it?" - Change either "shouldn't" to "wouldn't" or "would" to "should".

It's correct as it is.


"I nodded understanding to Jim and took another sip." - It should be "understandingly" not "understanding".

This is correct as it is.


There's probably more and I noticed some spelling mistakes too. Like I said, get someone to proofread it for you.

There may be places where you would writie something differently, but I suspect that al the errors are like the ones that you mentioned erroneously.

Speaking of grammatical errors, "There's probably more.." is wrong. It should be: There probably are more...


And after reading a bit more I've concluded that your biggest fault isn't that it's boring but like I had said, you tell, you don't show.

How is Ishtar's face excellent? How is the scone good?

THIS is an example of you describing things well with imagery: "It was filled with herbs, strong vegetables, and some tender meat."

You may have something useful there, but it is a matter of the kind of story also. Excess description is bad. A first person narrator can and does comment as a person might. Have you ever had a scone that was not good? If so, then you understand what it means that a scone is good.

PeterL
01-09-2011, 10:06 AM
I know that its no business of mine but i would still want to say something. Why bother posting a story for comments when you dont actually care for them? If you already know that your story is perfect, why make others read it and then mock at their suggestions rather than appreciate the time they put in to reading your story?

I love critiques of my writing, but most of what has been given amounts to "I don't like this," but the reasons for not liking it don't amount to anything. I suspect that some of the criticisms derive from someone not like the content of the story and providing bogus reasons why the story has problems.


Anyways, when i read your responses to the criticisms, i thought that it must be a new guy to the forum, but i was shocked to find a 5000 odd post old guy behaving in such a manner.


In fact, this time in is the other way around; the people giving the poor criticism have little experience here,and you are a good example of that.

Nikhar
01-09-2011, 11:01 AM
See, its one thing not agreeing to the comments you've got (no one's gonna have a problem with that), its completely different being rude and saying things like, 'you do not have a sense of writing'.

And, you've got comments of some very experienced guys. I daresay that hill's made about 75% of his posts in the short story sharing forum. And even if the guy who's commenting isn't an experienced forum member, you should appreciate the fact that he spent HIS time reading your story. Believe me, there are many other interesting things one might spend their time on.

If i were you, i'd be really flattered by the fact that so many people actually cared enough to read my story and commented upon it. They're not gonna gain anything. Its you who they wanna help.

About your saying that 'the reasons given dont amount to anything substantial', well the reasons that the reader has given is what he feels. What clicked and what didnt. Would you rather have had the reader fabricating reasons of why he didnt like your story instead of the actual truth?

Anyways, i'm not a preacher and dont intend to give any lectures. All i intend to say is that you are putting off all those guys from reading your story who might have if they hadnt read your responses.

Disagreements are rather healthy parts of a discussion, expletives arent.

cyberbob
01-09-2011, 11:58 AM
Those ARE grammatical errors! You can't "nod understanding." "Nod" is a verb. "Understanding" is a noun. "Understandingly" is an adverb which is what goes with a verb. You can't "nod hate" or "nod anger" at someone can you? But you CAN "nod lovingly" or "nod angrily", get it?

Furthermore, a wall is WOODEN. Wooden is an adjective. Wood is a CONCRETE NOUN just like wall is a CONCRETE NOUN. What you're saying is = to saying "the wall was banana" or "the wall was bicycle."

And lastly, you're mixing two different conditional verbs in "shouldn't" and "would". Here is another example: "You can't take me home should you?" or "I will go to the moon can't I?"

Trust me all of those are errors. Don't take my word for it, ask any english teacher, professor, or editor and they'll tell you the same thing.

Every writer needs to have his work proofread. The fact that you'd rather shoot people down than find out if you can fix the little errors in your story shows a lack of commitment to your work.

hillwalker
01-09-2011, 12:00 PM
In response to your latest dialogue on here :


Where did you get the idea that I do not intend to read any more books?

from your own words


Read More!? More than what? It's too late to read more.

In terms of being open to constructive criticism, obviously you contradict yourself :


I love critiques of my writing. I know what's good, but it's hard to see what's wrong. Your comments have not useful, because you have pointed to things that were just fine.

you obviously misplaced my feedback

I said it failed to grip the reader's imagination because it was written as a report rather than as a story. The style you used meant it lacked tension, suspense and momentum - and the story was tedious to read because it dragged its feet and lacked the minutest spark of life. It also had a predictable conclusion, but......


I realize that some people don't like having the plot resolved, but it isn't a short story unless there is plot resolution.

really? Wherever did you get that quaint idea?


Apparently you don't know good writing......
I know better than you that a short story is not a condensed novel.
.....the people giving the poor criticism have little experience here,and you are a good example of that.

for someone so certain of their abilities, and so disparaging of your readers these are mind-bogglingly deluded and insensitive comments aimed at those of us who offered well-intentioned advice and nothing more.

Some of your writing IS grammatically incorrect as cyberbob pointed out (or at least open to misinterpretation) -


"Ishtar had been injured, and that shouldn't have been possible for a Goddess, or would it?" - It's correct as it is.


hardly - mixing up auxilliary verbs in this way is sloppy and considered bad practice


"I nodded understanding to Jim and took another sip." - It should be "understandingly" not "understanding" - This is correct as it is.

assuming 'understanding' is in fact being used as a noun rather than an adverb the reader would expect 'my' to precede it otherwise the expression is ambiguous and clumsy to say the least

and finally - with reference to 'showing' not 'telling'


I'm geginning to doubt that you understand what that phrase means

I beg to differ, unless of course your interpretation differs to mine.

'telling' something is stating a fact (often used in journalism as a short-cut method of passing on facts) -
e.g. 'The man was afraid as he entered the room'
Why is that not effective story telling - because what one reader equates with being 'afraid' might well differ with another reader, so it offers very little useful information.

'showing' something allows the reader to experience emotions through the behaviour or senses of the character, to see things through his eyes
e.g. 'The man was in free-fall as soon as he entered the room; sensing the floor tilt beneath his feet before he could grab the doorframe for support.'

Another example of 'telling' is
I don't know what kind of writing you like, but I am a good writer.. You tell us it is so, but fail to show us.

H

PeterL
01-10-2011, 11:34 AM
I just posted a note abot critiquing. I hope that someone will find it useful.

http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?p=997153#post997153

PeterL
01-10-2011, 11:50 AM
"Ishtar had been injured, and that shouldn't have been possible for a Goddess, or would it?" - It's correct as it is.
hardly - mixing up auxilliary verbs in this way is sloppy and considered bad practice



I won't bother with the rest, but you exhibit a lack of understanding of the difference between "wouldn't" and "shouldn't". My use of oth was correct and appropriate, and the way that I used them gave emphasis to the difference between the two words. It may be a slightly non-standard use, but it is certainly not an error, and it most certainly was not sloppy, because I intended to use the words that way. By the way, "should" and "would" are not auxiliary verbs. "Should" usually is a conditional, and "would" is a form of "will" that is used in several different ways.



would
1   /wʊd; unstressed wəd/ Show Spelled[wood; unstressed wuhd] Show IPA
–verb
1. a pt. and pp. of will1.
2. (used to express the future in past sentences): He said he would go tomorrow.
3. (used in place of will, to make a statement or form a question less direct or blunt): That would scarcely be fair. Would you be so kind?
4. (used to express repeated or habitual action in the past): We would visit Grandma every morning up at the farm.
5. (used to express an intention or inclination): Nutritionists would have us all eat whole grains.
6. (used to express a wish): Would he were here!
7. (used to express an uncertainty): It would appear that he is guilty.
8. (used in conditional sentences to express choice or possibility): They would come if they had the fare. If the temperature were higher, the water would evaporate.



should
   /ʃʊd/ Show Spelled[shood] Show IPA
–auxiliary verb
1. pt. of shall.
2. (used to express condition): Were he to arrive, I should be pleased.
3. must; ought (used to indicate duty, propriety, or expediency): You should not do that.
4. would (used to make a statement less direct or blunt): I should think you would apologize.


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/should

hillwalker
01-10-2011, 12:13 PM
I bow to your superior knowledge - but as a sentence it still stinks.

H

AuntShecky
01-10-2011, 03:15 PM
I never said that Ishtar wasn't a goddess. But it definitely is a horrible movie.

If you're wondering what "Show Don't Tell" means, here are some suggestions:

Show don't tell
http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29321

And here are some general tips that may be--maybe!- could be useful:

http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31750&highlight=Cheap+advice

Mutatis-Mutandis
01-10-2011, 04:17 PM
Those ARE grammatical errors! You can't "nod understanding." "Nod" is a verb. "Understanding" is a noun. "Understandingly" is an adverb which is what goes with a verb. You can't "nod hate" or "nod anger" at someone can you? But you CAN "nod lovingly" or "nod angrily", get it?

Furthermore, a wall is WOODEN. Wooden is an adjective. Wood is a CONCRETE NOUN just like wall is a CONCRETE NOUN. What you're saying is = to saying "the wall was banana" or "the wall was bicycle."

And lastly, you're mixing two different conditional verbs in "shouldn't" and "would". Here is another example: "You can't take me home should you?" or "I will go to the moon can't I?"

Trust me all of those are errors. Don't take my word for it, ask any english teacher, professor, or editor and they'll tell you the same thing.

Every writer needs to have his work proofread. The fact that you'd rather shoot people down than find out if you can fix the little errors in your story shows a lack of commitment to your work.

He is correct on all counts, Peter.

PeterL
01-10-2011, 04:45 PM
He is correct on all counts, Peter.

You are wrong. I think that you should buy a good grammar book and read it. You will that those items do not violate any rules. Even a lousy grammar book won't have rules that were violated by those items.

Mutatis-Mutandis
01-10-2011, 07:22 PM
Fine. If all that is correct, and cyberbob is wrong, explain why. He ha shown why those grammar mistakes are actually grammar mistakes. You've only said, "No, they're not." Not a compelling argument.

Grit
01-10-2011, 08:22 PM
I couldn't get halfway through the first line of this story. All I have to say is that you need a stronger hook. Very simply, your story is not gripping enough.

Mutatis-Mutandis
01-11-2011, 10:11 AM
You know, I commented on people being a bit harsh in this thread, but after reading much of the story, I have to agree with them. It's just flat. I'm wondering, is English not your primary language? There seem to be a lot of grammar/spelling mistakes that would indicate this (literally one every third sentence or so). It makes reading this story very distracting, and never let me get immersed into it.