Need help finding intellectually stimulating books

[Wittyusername]

Hello, i'm new here and i was wondering if you guys could help me out. I'm making a list of books/authors i want to read before i finish high school, but my knowledge of literature is very limited. I've recently read some of the works of Fyodor Dostoevsky and i'm currently reading the works of Friedrich Nietzsche and i'm looking for more books/authors of that intellectual level. All help is appreciated. Thank you for taking your time to read this :)

[Obloo]

Good luck !

[billl]

Just my opinion--take a look at the 'Look Inside!' sample from Amazon.com...

Nicholson Baker, The Mezzanine (http://www.amazon.com/Mezzanine-Nicholson-Baker/dp/080214490X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1294046628&sr=1-1)

The recommendation is based on your mentions of other atutors, but is a perhaps timely change of pace, rather than an emotional echo.

[Hyacinthine]

Here are a few challenging but good ones I'm thinking of off the top of my head. I've starred the ones I'm most likely to go to when I'm really hungry to encounter a mind much greater than my own.

Germinal, Emile Zola (or really anything by Zola. I'm partial to Abbe Mouret's Transgression)
The Red and the Black, Stendhal
Moby-Dick, Herman Melville
A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man, James Joyce*
Ulysses, James Joyce*
Infinite Jest, David Foster Wallace*
Pale Fire, Vladimir Nabokov*

As for non-fiction, I think you're safe with the writing of pretty much any famous philosopher. If you want to go really crazy with having to work to understand something, try Hegel. Noam Chomsky's work on linguistics is also really interesting and suggests a lot about thought and the mind.

[Alexander III]

I think I have the perfect winner for you, step right up, step right up and enjoy

Marquis DeSade - La Philosophie dans le boudoir

[laymonite]

Nonfiction or fiction? If your knowledge of literature as in fiction is limited, I would suggest starting with theoretical literature. Then, when you move into great works of literary fiction, you will have a sort of toolbox to use; a theoretical lens through which to enjoy the works. And, as far as where to start with theory, I'd recommend on of the Intro literary theory anthologies like the Blackwell anthology (http://www.amazon.com/Literary-Theory-Anthology-Blackwell-Anthologies/dp/1405106964/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1294080777&sr=8-1). Enjoy!

[DanielBenoit]

I think I have the perfect winner for you, step right up, step right up and enjoy

Marquis DeSade - La Philosophie dans le boudoir

:smilielol5::hand:

[laymonite]

I think I have the perfect winner for you, step right up, step right up and enjoy

Marquis DeSade - La Philosophie dans le boudoir

Superb suggestion. This thread has ended!

[Kafka's Crow]

I think I have the perfect winner for you, step right up, step right up and enjoy

Marquis DeSade - La Philosophie dans le boudoir

Very stimulating indeed!

[arrytus]

I think you'll do just fine with Dostoevsky and Nietzsche.

[Wittyusername]

Thank you for all the recommendations!


Nonfiction or fiction? If your knowledge of literature as in fiction is limited, I would suggest starting with theoretical literature. Then, when you move into great works of literary fiction, you will have a sort of toolbox to use; a theoretical lens through which to enjoy the works. And, as far as where to start with theory, I'd recommend on of the Intro literary theory anthologies like the Blackwell anthology (http://www.amazon.com/Literary-Theory-Anthology-Blackwell-Anthologies/dp/1405106964/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1294080777&sr=8-1). Enjoy!

I would prefer non fiction. Theoretical literature as in works like Nietzsche's?


I think you'll do just fine with Dostoevsky and Nietzsche.


I did enjoy Dostoevsky and Nietzsche and i'll probably read some more of their work but i'd also like to expand my horizons a bit.

[arrytus]

I would prefer non fiction. Theoretical literature as in works like Nietzsche's?




I believe the book you are looking for then is called Sartor Resartus by Carlyle. It is what you are looking for, I'm quite confident.

Philosophical fiction:
Nausea by Sartre
The Fall by Camus,
Balzac's Louis Lambert
White Noise- DeLillo
The Immoralist- Gide
or if you are ambitious War and Peace by Tolstoy [I tried to read this in highschool twice but never finished it (although I since have)].

Non-Fiction
Golden Bough by Frazer.
Simulacra and Simulation by Baudrillard.

[Jeremydav]

Can't believe no one has suggested Marx. Every young person needs a Marxism stage.

[MystyrMystyry]

Goedel Escher Bach

[kelby_lake]

Intellectually stimulating...hmm.

You could foray into existentialism. Jean Paul Sartre's Huis Clos (often called No Exit in English. The best translated title is In Camera) and Albert Camus' The Stranger would be a good start.

Is it philosophical books you're looking for or novels with weighty themes?

[Alexander III]

Can't believe no one has suggested Marx. Every young person needs a Marxism stage.

Meh every young person would do better without a fascist stage or a marxist stage, and in fact in most of europe fascist tendencies amongst the youth are quite popular. In Italy Communism is all but dead except for those 30+, the young ones find it repugnant as there is clearly a generation which has grown revolted with it, as during the economic crisis in Italy all the problems which the left had created in Italy came to be clearly seen. By contrast Fascists right wing tendencies are very strong amongst the young and the old. Italy is now so full of immigrants that there are extremely high levels of racism. For instance in Naples last year, a rom camp was set a blaze by the italian denizens living close by. Several of the roms were burnt alive. yet the majority of fellow Neapolitans praised the people who burnt the camp down. The Lega Nord, a extreme right wing party, won 10% of the votes in the elections, A huge number considering that the highest voted part got 34% (Berlusconi's) And Berlusconi's major ally is La Lega Nord.

So yea just wanted to pop that in, Fascism in the new Communism in Italy.

[Seasider]

The English philosopher and political theorist John Stuart Mill is worth reading. On Liberty andThe Subjection of Women are both excellent.

Have you tried Plato? The Symposium is a dialogue concerning the nature and purpose of Love. The Republic is a dialogue concerning Justice...what makes a society a just society and what makes an individual a just man or woman?

[Patrick_Bateman]

The Prince - Machiavelli
The Rebel - Albert Camus

[cyberbob]

Intellectually stimulating is kind of vague. That can range from extremely technical to extremely pretentious.

I guess in fiction I would recommend Ayn Rand although it's probable that you'll find her a pain in the butt.

For non-fiction I'd recommend Frederic Bastiat, Friedrich Hayek, Stephen Jay Gould, Albert Schweitzer, Ludwig Von Mises etc.

[DanielBenoit]

Goedel Escher Bach

End of conversation. I can't think of any book written in the past few decades that so seamlessly integrates mathematics with music, art, literature, humor and philsophical inquiry.



Meh every young person would do better without a fascist stage or a marxist stage

In what way are these two connected? Whatever ones opinions are, it is a fact that Marxist (far-left wing) and fascism (far-right wing) are polar opposites. I know that you probably don't think this, but I'm tired of hearing these two ideologies said in the same breath as if they were somehow the same.


and in fact in most of europe fascist tendencies amongst the youth are quite popular. In Italy Communism is all but dead except for those 30+, the young ones find it repugnant as there is clearly a generation which has grown revolted with it, as during the economic crisis in Italy all the problems which the left had created in Italy came to be clearly seen. By contrast Fascists right wing tendencies are very strong amongst the young and the old. Italy is now so full of immigrants that there are extremely high levels of racism. For instance in Naples last year, a rom camp was set a blaze by the italian denizens living close by. Several of the roms were burnt alive. yet the majority of fellow Neapolitans praised the people who burnt the camp down. The Lega Nord, a extreme right wing party, won 10% of the votes in the elections, A huge number considering that the highest voted part got 34% (Berlusconi's) And Berlusconi's major ally is La Lega Nord.

That is really too bad, but I sincerely don't know what that has to do with Marxism. What does this have to do with reading Marx? Forgive my ignorance. Political parties clash, even violently during harsh economic times. I certainly don't think that it is a good thing, but I still don't understand what you mean in regards to the context.

[mal4mac]

The English philosopher and political theorist John Stuart Mill is worth reading. On Liberty andThe Subjection of Women are both excellent.

Have you tried Plato? The Symposium is a dialogue concerning the nature and purpose of Love. The Republic is a dialogue concerning Justice...what makes a society a just society and what makes an individual a just man or woman?

Nietzsche is one of the most readable philosophers and it can be difficult finding others as readable. Someone mentioned Hegel and said you were safe with any philosopher... someone is a great joker!

Seasider makes some good suggestions - J.S. Mill's Autobiography is also a good read. Other recommendations: Montaigne's Essays, Seneca's letters & essays. For modern overviews of philosophy try Bryan Magee and Alain de Botton.

[Kafka's Crow]

Goethe's The Sorrows of Young Werther, I am reading it now. Such a clear cut picture of Romantic agony. Took me back 20 years when I studied Romanticism as a headstrong youth dreaming of becoming a Rebel against all decorum and dying with a broken heart! Was not I meant to be different from the rest of the herd? Well, I thought I was!

[oshima]

I'm currently reading The Name of the Rose by Umberto Eco and so far it's been a highly erudite and compelling read. I recommend it.

Someone above mentioned Godel, Escher, Bach. Be warned:that book will tear your intellect a new one (in a good way).

[Mag Master 21]

If you want some challenging philosophy, I'd highly suggest Kant... I would argue he is like Nietzsche but with the inclusion of God.

Ayn Rand is great but I'd suggest The Fountainhead over Atlas Shrugged

Though above all, I'd say to pick up a good translation of Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics

[AbOvo]

When I was in high school, I read both Dostoesvky and Nietzsche, yet I understood the former as opposed to the latter. There are aspects of Nietzsche's philosophy that harken back to the tradition before him, as is the wont of philosophy, and will not make much sense to the reader unless they have an understanding of the philosophy before Nietzsche. Though Nietzsche is said to be one of the more readable philosophers, as he is a fantastic writer, I would suggest starting out with Plato or even the Presocratics before him. This way you'd be able to articulate and follow the philosophers' arguements, ergo you'd understand Nietzsche as opposed to just reading him. That's what I did, and in revisiting the works of the modern philosophers I had read, I found that I didn't understand them and had just read them.
As for some great philosophical novels, check out:
The Magic Mountain by Thomas Mann
The Recognitions by William Gaddis
The Life and Opinions of Tristram Shandy, Gentleman by Laurence Sterne
A la researche du temps perdu (In Search of Lost Time) by Proust
Don Quixote by Cervantes
Molloy, Malone Dies, The Unnamable by Samuel Beckett
Ficciones, The Aleph by Borges
and I'd even stress VALIS by Philip K Dick because it reminded me of Spinoza's philosophy of deus or natura.

philosophical non-fiction:
Theaetetus, Phaedo by Plato (the first Platonic dialogues I'd suggest to start with)
Confessions by Saint Augustine
Meditations of First Philosophy by Descartes
An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding by Hume

without some of those works, philosophers like Kant and Hegel will make no sense, in my experience.

[OrphanPip]

If you want some challenging philosophy, I'd highly suggest Kant... I would argue he is like Nietzsche but with the inclusion of God.


Really? Nietzsche is pretty much an anti-Kantian, they're diametrically opposed on pretty much everything.

I won't disagree that Kant is challenging philosophy though, the man seemed to have lived to provide headaches to his readers.

The above post is right too, Kant is nigh impossible to understand without some grounding in Locke and Hume, and then to understand them it helps to understand DesCartes and Aquinas, and to understand them it helps to understand Plato and Aristotle. Not saying you have to be a PhD., lord knows I'm not an expert in European philosophy, but it helps to understand the general ideas.

[DanielBenoit]

Yeah, Kant was pretty much on Nietzsche's "Things I Hate List" alongside Plato, Christianity and Wagner. . . .

[IceM]

I found Walden by Henry David Thoreau to be as influential to me as any book I have ever read.

[inbetween]

marx can't harm and by the way communism is (most of the times) not quite what marx meant... (I don't know to much about the old man, altho I saw his grave, but I know enough to tell you so)
there's Schopenhauer just to throw in an other german name since you seem to be so fond of them
and if you wish for some stimulating (and confusing) fiction try Thomas Pynchion (I recommend "Vineland" for a start)
and if you want something philosophical out of the odinary check for Phillip Mainländer
oh and there's Tollkeen of course... "the lord of the rings" and "the hobbit" are (excuse the expression) ****ing religion!
well there's more fiction I'd call stimulating but I guess you're not so much looking for fiction
if you ever should be, tell me
and try "Paradise Lost" don't expect yourself to get through.. just try it's worth it ... and now I shut up or I'll write a whole page.... (any questions... ask me)

[TheChilly]

Richard Price- "Clockers"

[Sionn Harrow]

I recommend:
The Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx
The Republic by Plato
Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis
The Origin of the Species by Charles Darwin

While I don't necessarily agree with what these books are presenting, they're all highly influential. They're all fairly easy to read but very intellectually stimualting;)

(ps, i haven't read what people have already recommended, so sorry if I'm not giving you anything new)

[Wittyusername]

So many different suggestions i don't know where to start. Thanks for all of em so far!

EDIT: Looks like I'm going to be reading Gödel, Escher, Bach. Thank you so much for the recommendation!

[Oniw17]

Thanks for making this thread. Clever name by the way.
Jean Auel's Clan of the Cave Bear, a prehistoric fiction, is pretty intellectually stimulating. The culture of the Clan kept my attention, which isn't that easy lately. Plato's been mentioned, I highly recommend.

[goatlips]

I recommend "Cultural Amnesia" by Clive James. It consists of essays on various writers, thinkers, and philosophers. The essays will encourage you to explore the works of the subjects.

[Oniw17]

I forgot these before and after looking at the thread, noticed so did everyone else.
brave new world by aldous huxley
Dune by Frank /herbert
any kind of psychology/neurology is usually pretty interesting as well.

[Pecksie]

If you liked Dostoyevsky, why don't you try other Russian novelists? Turgenev, for example, or Tolstoy. They're all great. As my grandfather used to say: 'One always ends up going back to the Russians'. Enjoy!

[Theunderground]

I personally found that once i read the great majority of Nietzsches work and digested it,that all other 'pure philosophers' became somewhat irrelevant. Friedrich is a great philosophical writer (zarathustra excepted!!!) especially his works after zarathustra,and most especially everything after the wagner case. (dionysus dithyrambs excepted.) The antichrist and ecco home are sublime masterpieces unrivalled in the world of philosophy,and the twilight of the idols and the genealogy of morals arent far off.
But i found even this masterful writer trumped when i read 'notes from the undeground'. A purer poetic experience i havent experienced since my first reading of dostoevskys 'hamlet'.
Since then ive been trying to read all of fyodors works and i can honestly say if there is a better intellectual read than the bothers karazamov id like to hear of it. I think reading nietzsche first really helped me to understood the thinking of dostoevsky.
Just when i thought i dostoevsky couldnt suprise me any more intellectually i have just embarked on reading the idiot (and am almost half way through.) and the level of almost seamless psychological insightwisdom,dialogue,and situation ambiguities is mind boggling. I cant wait to finish it and get on to my final conquest,the demons....
A writer once wrote of stendahl, 'one is never finished with stendahl'. I think this applies to dostoevsky most aptly,so i advise you to read all of nietzsche for a background foundation and then all the major dostoevsky works. (not forgetting the house of the dead and bobok.)

[mal4mac]

I recommend "Cultural Amnesia" by Clive James. It consists of essays on various writers, thinkers, and philosophers. The essays will encourage you to explore the works of the subjects.

A great suggestion! Any other essay collection by Clive James should be fit for purpose, if you find one in your library. A very stimulating, amusing and readable essayist, perhaps the best of modern times?

[jmnixon95]

Albert Camus' The Stranger would be a good start.

I was about to suggest that one myself!
I'm a huge fan of Camus... hence the avatar.

[Armel P]

I think I have the perfect winner for you, step right up, step right up and enjoy

Marquis DeSade - La Philosophie dans le boudoir

That is a pretty interesting book. A little boring as most of his stuff is but still quite interesting. And often funny. I read it on public transportation. The juxtaposition of my surroundings and the book was entertaining in itself.

[Theunderground]

Wittgensteins tractactus,the works of confucius,freud and monsieur montaigne are also very rewarding.

[Amit Shrivastav]

Rebecca by Daphne Du Maurier

The Firm by John Grisham

are the good books...so you just try to read!!