Through a glass darkley?

[mike thomas]

Acts 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child,
I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish
things.

Acts 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face:
now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

I wonder, does this mean it is good to not put childish things away?

Anyone?

[weltanschauung]

children see things for the first time, with no bias. no their impressions are somewhat not tainted. now childish there has a broad meaning.


and btw
http://criterioncast.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/209_box_348x490.jpg

[mike thomas]

Yeah, I see. Thanks for reply friend. But can you tell me what you mean by broad meaning?

[weltanschauung]

you have to think about it.

[MANICHAEAN]

Mike

Acts 13:11. Its an age of innocence but then you move out into a world of reality & perception & responsibility.

Acts 13:12. A fascinating period in one's life. Striving for the essence of life but not quite grasping it. Finally, submission to Gods will.

Then of course the final stage, when you basically go full circle. Once a man, twice a child.

Hope that answers your query.

Regards
M.

[weltanschauung]

"Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish..."

[MANICHAEAN]

Aber der chips, der chips!
Was denks du?

[weltanschauung]

haha.
"freund, es ist auch genug. im fall du mehr willst lesen, so geh und werde selbst die schrift un selbst das wesen.."

http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/3.gif

[MANICHAEAN]

Genau ist genau. Einshuigens mir bitte, aber mein deutsch ist "arsch lok" deiser nacht mit der schnapps. Ich heiss das alles geghts gut mit du.
Guss Gott mein liebe und ein Jahr 2011 wunderba.
M.

[weltanschauung]

haha. ich spreche nicht Deutsche...

"anyway... it was december and all, and it was cold as a witch's teat..."

Freiden/frieden/Friede :)

[togre]

To the OP--the passages you quote are from 1 Corinthians 13:11,12.

You ask:I wonder, does this mean it is good to not put childish things away?

I think that question is not addressed at all.


It helps to know the context. The entire letter of 1 Corinthians was written by St. Paul to a congregation of Christian converts. They knew the important stuff (usually) but were still maturing.

Chapter 12 begins to discuss different spiritual gifts that God grant and extends the discussion into how all believers are to be united and live for each other. This flows into Chapter 13 (the great Love chapter) where St. Paul focuses on the specific spiritual gift of Christian love. Okay, that's a lot of background, but in v.8 Paul starts to compare the gift of love to other spiritual gifts. He is pointing out that love endures even beyond this age and this lifetime. Nothing else will.



v.11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.

In general this is simply stating that we grow and mature. The actions, pastimes and ideas that were appropriate as children are not suited for an adult. That's just how life works. Paul want his reader to apply this truth (that we grow and mature) to spiritual things, especially spiritual gifts.

It's reading a bit into it, but the application seems to be "Some spiritual gifts are cool and neato! Healing people! Preforming miracles! Speaking in tongues! Man, I want those! That's all fine and good, but as you grow, mature. Long for what is even more valuable, even more enduring. Specifically, love. Being able to live in this self sacrificing way is a gift, a great gift, one you should seek."

v.12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

First, to the translation, "but a poor reflection as in a mirror" is okay, but a better one would be "Now we see in a mirror indirectly." The ancients had decent mirrors (indeed I understand Corinth was know for its fine quality bronze mirrors) and they marveled over the reflections in them rather than lamenting the poor quality. Paul is not lamenting that we don't see clearly, but that all we see is a reflection, not yet the reality. A picture of the Grand Cannon may be crystal clear and accurate, but its not the same as the real thing.

The point, having started discussing the coming time when "other spiritual gifts" fail, Paul ponders that time. It will be after Judgment Day, when believers are gathered to the Lord in heaven that these gifts are of no consequence. Paul thinks of the other changes that will be ushered in--he will no longer see God by faith alone, but face to face.

Paul returns to his theme of spiritual gifts as he concludes in v. 13 "And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love."



I hope that helps. As I said the passages don't really address attempts to retain or relive portions of our childhood or childish (youthful, perhaps) ways.

[ThereisTruth]

The author doesn't state as a command, "Put away childish things." He states a fact regarding what happens to almost everyone when they get older.
Some aspects of childhood we ought to keep, and the Bible makes that clear when it says that those who would enter the kingdom of heaven must come as a child. Adults often come up with crazy, complex philosophies of life that are farther from the truth than what they had thought as children.
However, other aspects of childhood ought to be put away. We learn a lot of important things as we get older, like how to handle money and other responsibilities--things that children don’t understand yet. As we become mature, we are more able to handle life on our own.

The author is giving an analogy between the physical and the spiritual. He is showing that as humans we mature and leave behind some aspects of childhood. It is the same way with our spiritual lives. Right now those who believe in Christ are in the childhood stage of spirituality--we are not fully mature and there are a lot of things we don’t understand. But someday, after death, we will be mature and will understand more about God. Now we can know “in part”--we can understand some things about God and the world. But someday we will know much more. As Lewis said, (although I am not quoting this directly) this life is a shadowland of the world that is to come. The afterlife is the reality. Therefore, what we know now will be surpassed by what we will know then. It’s like seeing a clip of a video--once you have the full movie, you don’t need the clip anymore. When we learn things more completely we put our old ideas aside. Hence the childhood analogy--we readjust our thinking as we learn, so we put away some of the ideas we had as kids. That is to say, knowledge doesn’t last forever.

The author is using verses 9-12 of 1 Corinthians 13 to explain what he means by the fact that things like knowledge won’t abide forever. But as he says in verses 8 and 13, love isn’t like that. Love does abide forever. Love surpasses eternity--true love in this life (not romantic love, but unselfish concern for others) is the same as love in the afterlife. Love in a child’s heart is the same as love in an adult’s heart, if it is genuine. Knowledge doesn’t last, but love does. Knowledge will change, but love won’t.

[stephofthenight]

I would say yes, not totaly material things but the traits of children. openmindedness, non bias and optomistic. the way children trust and love easily and unconditonaly. the mind of a child is simple.

[DanielBenoit]

http://criterioncast.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/209_box_348x490.jpg

Thumbs up my friend :thumbs_up

[weltanschauung]

*tips hat*

[Ger]

The author doesn't state as a command, "Put away childish things." He states a fact regarding what happens to almost everyone when they get older.
Some aspects of childhood we ought to keep, and the Bible makes that clear when it says that those who would enter the kingdom of heaven must come as a child. Adults often come up with crazy, complex philosophies of life that are farther from the truth than what they had thought as children.
However, other aspects of childhood ought to be put away. We learn a lot of important things as we get older, like how to handle money and other responsibilities--things that children don’t understand yet. As we become mature, we are more able to handle life on our own.

The author is giving an analogy between the physical and the spiritual. He is showing that as humans we mature and leave behind some aspects of childhood. It is the same way with our spiritual lives. Right now those who believe in Christ are in the childhood stage of spirituality--we are not fully mature and there are a lot of things we don’t understand. But someday, after death, we will be mature and will understand more about God. Now we can know “in part”--we can understand some things about God and the world. But someday we will know much more. As Lewis said, (although I am not quoting this directly) this life is a shadowland of the world that is to come. The afterlife is the reality. Therefore, what we know now will be surpassed by what we will know then. It’s like seeing a clip of a video--once you have the full movie, you don’t need the clip anymore. When we learn things more completely we put our old ideas aside. Hence the childhood analogy--we readjust our thinking as we learn, so we put away some of the ideas we had as kids. That is to say, knowledge doesn’t last forever.

The author is using verses 9-12 of 1 Corinthians 13 to explain what he means by the fact that things like knowledge won’t abide forever. But as he says in verses 8 and 13, love isn’t like that. Love does abide forever. Love surpasses eternity--true love in this life (not romantic love, but unselfish concern for others) is the same as love in the afterlife. Love in a child’s heart is the same as love in an adult’s heart, if it is genuine. Knowledge doesn’t last, but love does. Knowledge will change, but love won’t.

It appears to me, ThereisTruth, that you are confusing your literary-based mythology and superstition with the objective-truth/reality in which you actually/mortally exist. The human imagination is very tricky in that regard. Literature, and the human words used to compose them are like maps; either the maps/words accurately depict the actual territory they are said to represent or the maps/words are flawed.

You state above:

Adults often come up with crazy, complex philosophies of life that are farther from the truth than what they had thought as children.

But then state a “crazy, complex philosophy”:

Right now those who believe in Christ are in the childhood stage of spirituality--we are not fully mature and there are a lot of things we don’t understand. But someday, after death, we will be mature and will understand more about God.

You learned the ‘A, B, Cs’, learned to read, read the English Holy Bible, and learned to “believe in Christ” because belief/faith was the only way to accept the supernatural/mythical contents of that religious literature. Those human words in no way depicted the objective reality experienced in the territory of mortality on the real and true planet earth. There is no “someday, after death” due to the fact that after the human brain ceases to function it no longer matures or understands.

I understand that you “believe” contrary to the objective facts that constitute our shared mortal reality, but just because you “believe” something that belief in no way makes what you think you “believe in” true.

All the best,
Ger

[ThereisTruth]

To Ger:
I believe the point of this thread is to explain what the author meant in 1 Corinthians 13 when he said that he put away childish things. I am pretty sure that the apostle Paul agrees with my conclusions. Although you don't believe in an afterlife, he did. When he said, "Now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face" I believe the "then" is the afterlife and the "face to face" is our face with God's. Paul talks about the afterlife many times, such as in 1 Cor. 15--"the dead will be raised incorruptible" and 2 Cor. 5--"to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord."

I agree with you wholeheartedly that just because I believe something, that does not make something true. That would be ridiculous. If I believed that Lincoln was the current president of the U.S. and not Obama, I would be wrong in my beliefs. However, I do believe that Obama is the current president, even though I have never met him. There is evidence to support my beliefs. I believe that right now, microscopic germs are invading my body, giving me a runny nose and a sore throat. I've never seen them, but I have studied about them and seen enough evidence to be assured of their reality. I believe there is enough evidence for God in this present world that we live in to convince me that He is a real, active part of our real world. I would recommend to you the book "I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist" by Norman Geisler.