If you love God , should you hate who doesn't love Him ?

[caddy_caddy]

I'm sure I love God faithfully , yet I don't hate those who doesn't love Him .
That makes me doubt my love because it seems contradictory to me .
If I feel that someone doesn't love my kids , my natural feeling towards him become sth of repulsiveness if not hatred .It's a natural outcome of my love to my kids .
I think it's the essential problem we face with each others : Hatred out of love .
How do you deal with such a problem ?

[Paulclem]

I really don't follow your logic. Are people so polarised in their emotions that a neutral response would engender hatred?

What you are talking about is intolerance - you don't love what I love and so I hate you.

I don't get the kids analogy either. If someone hated my kids - that is wished them harm - then I would defend them. Dislike I can put up with. Neutrality is ok. Love is better.

In the modern city we actually conduct most of our lives with unknown people for whom we feel neutral. I can't see anything wrong with this.

As for your God, I think by adopting that attitude you are engendering a dangerous intolerance.

[Delta40]

if someone doesn't love God, or my kids, I would be wrong to make it my problem by hating them - a response that cannot possibly incite love in return - what service do you do God by harbouring hatred and ultimately spreading hate?

[Neo_Sephiroth]

Nah. Love all and it's all good. If someone didn't love my kids, I wouldn't hate them just for that.

[caddy_caddy]

I really don't follow your logic. Are people so polarised in their emotions that a neutral response would engender hatred?
I think most people are polarized
What you are talking about is intolerance - you don't love what I love and so I hate you.

I don't get the kids analogy either. If someone hated my kids - that is wished them harm - then I would defend them. Dislike I can put up with. Neutrality is ok. Love is better.
It's the mere feeling not taking any action .

In the modern city we actually conduct most of our lives with unknown people for whom we feel neutral. I can't see anything wrong with this.
Neither me but I think it needs effort.

As for your God, I think by adopting that attitude you are engendering a dangerous intolerance
This is me who wants to explore this feeling . I like to go deep in the dark places of our psyche although it's very dangerous . As for my God he told me that Satan is your real enemy so hate him .

if someone doesn't love God, or my kids, I would be wrong to make it my problem by hating them -
so you use your ethical system by saying " hatred is wrong ".

a response that cannot possibly incite love in return - what service do you do God by harbouring hatred and ultimately spreading hate?
i'm not harbouring anything . Hatred exists , it's a fact in our life .

Nah. Love all and it's all good. If someone didn't love my kids, I wouldn't hate them just for that.
That's fair .

[blazeofglory]

You came up with wonderful ideas, Caddy. I never hate or cannot hate those who do not love gods and why should I hate after all? They have their Gods and they may love their Gods and maybe they are neutral or indifferent to my God and I can be indifferent to their Gods.

I always love forgiving and this is a great principle no matter which religions teach it. I have no hatred for other religions followers and though they maybe other religions followers but that are skin deep and inside them flows the same blood and the same sense of humanity.

You really gave a good example Caddy.

[Paulclem]

This is me who wants to explore this feeling . I like to go deep in the dark places of our psyche although it's very dangerous . As for my God he told me that Satan is your real enemy so hate him .

Understanding is a good thing. I don't think encouraging hatred is a good thing. Emotions are controlling and the more you rehearse an emotion, the easier it is to become it.

[BienvenuJDC]

My God is Jehovah, so He is not the same god that you serve, if you are muslim. This is not the doctrine that Christians are taught, nor is it that which I believe. Is this taught in the islamic religion?

[Alexander III]

My God is Jehovah, so He is not the same god that you serve, if you are muslim. This is not the doctrine that Christians are taught, nor is it that which I believe. Is this taught in the islamic religion?

Actually

Matthew 12:30

Jesus is reported to have said "He who is not with me is against me"

[OrphanPip]

My God is Jehovah, so He is not the same god that you serve, if you are muslim. This is not the doctrine that Christians are taught, nor is it that which I believe. Is this taught in the islamic religion?

Islam is an Abrahamic religion, of course it's the same god...

And of course it's not taught in Christian doctrine because Christianity predates Islam.

[BienvenuJDC]

Islam is an Abrahamic religion, of course it's the same god...

And of course it's not taught in Christian doctrine because Christianity predates Islam.

I'm sorry, the doctrines from the Bible and the Koran are too much in opposition. If you do not understand the difference between Jehovah and allah, then please don't try to tell me what you think that you understand. Furthermore, I was trying to say that the concept of "hating those who did not love" your God, is not taught in the Bible. If that is taught in the Koran (which I cannot comment on since I do not know the Koran as well), then that is another reason to say that Jehovah is not like allah.


Actually

Matthew 12:30

Jesus is reported to have said "He who is not with me is against me"


Jesus is teaching here that one cannot be lukewarm or neutral. This does not teach that anyone should hate the individual that is not with Christ.

Romans 12:17-18, "Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men."

[OrphanPip]

I'm sorry, the doctrines from the Bible and the Koran are too much in opposition. If you do not understand the difference between Jehovah and allah, then please don't try to tell me what you think that you understand. Furthermore, I was trying to say that the concept of "hating those who did not love" your God, is not taught in the Bible. If that is taught in the Koran (which I cannot comment on since I do not know the Koran as well), then that is another reason to say that Jehovah is not like allah.

Allah is merely the Arabic word for God, it is used by Arabic speaking Christians and Jews as well.

The religions are both Abrahamic, and thus are referring to the same God who revealed himself to the Hebrews. Whether you want to nitpick about whether their understanding of your imaginary friend is as accurate as your own is just an attempt to gloss over the fact that the religions have common origins.

[YesNo]

I'm sure I love God faithfully , yet I don't hate those who doesn't love Him .


Whether its God or some favorite idea or a cherished goal, there will always be people who will not agree with that God, who will denounce that idea, or who will stand in the way of that goal.

These people are a perfect opportunity to learn patience.

Hatred and anger are the opposite of patience. I suspect that learning patience ultimately means that we do not even have angry thoughts about them.

[BienvenuJDC]

Allah is merely the Arabic word for God, it is used by Arabic speaking Christians and Jews as well.

The religions are both Abrahamic, and thus are referring to the same God who revealed himself to the Hebrews. Whether you want to nitpick about whether their understanding of your imaginary friend is as accurate as your own is just an attempt to gloss over the fact that the religions have common origins.

There is NOT common origins. The God of Abraham appeared to him about 2000 BC, while Mohamed did not write down his concepts of islam until after AD 600. The doctrine of islam denies any concept of a trinity, therefore the God of Abraham (Elohim as it is referred in Genesis 1:1) cannot be the god that islam worships. Elohim is a plural reference of the Hebrew 'el' which is god. These concepts are completely incompatible. And since the religions developed over 2,600 years apart, it is unlikely that they have anything to do with each other.

[caddy_caddy]

I knew I'm opening the gate of hell on me but I don't care .
Sorry I can't reply now .

[YesNo]

There is NOT common origins. The God of Abraham appeared to him about 2000 BC, while Mohamed did not write down his concepts of islam until after AD 600. The doctrine of islam denies any concept of a trinity, therefore the God of Abraham (Elohim as it is referred in Genesis 1:1) cannot be the god that islam worships. Elohim is a plural reference of the Hebrew 'el' which is god. These concepts are completely incompatible. And since the religions developed over 2,600 years apart, it is unlikely that they have anything to do with each other.

I tend to agree with OrphanPip about the commonality of Judaism, Christianity and the Muslim religion. These three all explicitly recognize Abraham as their origin and for that reason can be classified together.

I also include Zoroastrianism with these three currently major religions since the concept of heaven and hell and the last judgment with the apocalyptic end of days comes from Zarathustra. (See Mary Boyce's writings for evidence of this claim.) So when I bunch them together I see four religions that are closely related to each other.

[Paulclem]

There's a familiar look to this thread. We should stick to the point.

[The Atheist]

I'm sure I love God faithfully , yet I don't hate those who doesn't love Him .

I guess it depends on your interpretation of the Quran, which is pretty clear on the subject:

Sura 9:73,74 O Prophet, strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,-- an evil refuge indeed. ... God will punish them with a grievous penalty in this life and in the Hereafter. They shall have none on this earth to protect or help them.

Bukhari, volume 9, 17 The blood of a Muslim ... cannot be shed except in three cases: in Qisas (equality in punishment) for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (Apostate) and leaves the Muslims.

Would you love a murderer? The crime of not accepting the muslim god (atheism) is equivalent to murder.

[caddy_caddy]

You came up with wonderful ideas, Caddy. I never hate or cannot hate those who do not love gods and why should I hate after all? They have their Gods and they may love their Gods and maybe they are neutral or indifferent to my God and I can be indifferent to their Gods.

I always love forgiving and this is a great principle no matter which religions teach it. I have no hatred for other religions followers and though they maybe other religions followers but that are skin deep and inside them flows the same blood and the same sense of humanity.

You really gave a good example Caddy.
You're a cosmic being .
Thx for your good intention .


Understanding is a good thing. I don't think encouraging hatred is a good thing. Emotions are controlling and the more you rehearse an emotion, the easier it is to become it.
Everything ends where it begins -- in intentions.
I think you practise things that make you able to control your emotions . Not everyone does so .


My God is Jehovah, so He is not the same god that you serve, if you are muslim. This is not the doctrine that Christians are taught, nor is it that which I believe. Is this taught in the islamic religion?
Whether it's Jehovah , Allah or any other god ,we all love our gods and worship them because mainly we think they are absolute goodness and love . We love them and worship them because they teach us good things .
This is what is god , by definition. A god who teaches hatred is not a god ;he is more of a Satan than a god ; he doesn't deserve to be loved or worshipped by us .Thus , to me , any god is out of charge .

We're living in a hell called hatred and I raised the question because I think the defect is in our nature or in our logic since I cannot think ill of any god . I can never think that a god could be so .

[QUOTE=YesNo;981122]Whether its God or some favorite idea or a cherished goal, there will always be people who will not agree with that God, who will denounce that idea, or who will stand in the way of that goal.
I think this is the prevailing logic although some abhores the idea . The more you love your god , the more you hate his enemies or whom you consider them so .It's in our nature ; and what's in our nature is not what we necesserily desire . I don't think those who wanted to burn the Kuran felt any kind of remorse .This is the enemy of their god .This is an act of hatred( not just feeling)justified by love .
You can find this feeling everywhere although it may not turn out to be evil deeds .This is not that the feeling does not exist or we can abolish it . We are human beings not angels ; we experience all kinds of feelings and hatred is one of it . It just varies from one person to another in intensity and duration. The problem is, really ironical, that we entertain this feeling and justify it ."This is for my God "


These people are a perfect opportunity to learn patience.

Hatred and anger are the opposite of patience. I suspect that learning patience ultimately means that we do not even have angry thoughts about them.
learning patience takes too much time and effort -- ask me .And firstly you should convince them that this is wrong or bad ,because they think this is right and good

[Nightshade]

I guess it depends on your interpretation of the Quran, which is pretty clear on the subject:

Sura 9:73,74 O Prophet, strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,-- an evil refuge indeed. ... God will punish them with a grievous penalty in this life and in the Hereafter. They shall have none on this earth to protect or help them.

Bukhari, volume 9, 17 The blood of a Muslim ... cannot be shed except in three cases: in Qisas (equality in punishment) for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (Apostate) and leaves the Muslims.

Would you love a murderer? The crime of not accepting the muslim god (atheism) is equivalent to murder.

Excuse me... HAve to say you have missed a whole batch of verses by going for that on Atheist... what about Surrah 109 " for you is your religion, For me is my religion"

Or surrah 2 verse 256

Really I don't see why hate comes into it, becaue cally it goes beyond that
there is " God Damns he who damns others"
Judge not lest you be judged.
And I am sorry Bein, and its fair dos for you not to believe it especially as christianity came first but as a muslim I believe that All the Abrahmic religions worship the same God, and thus I personally belive all the verse about turning the other cheek and love and such are all relevant, plus and here is the major point- God doesn't really need our help by hating other people. Actually there is anothere verse here but can't remember the english transaltion or the referance It is something like the supressors of anger and those that forgive others.
Leave God to sort out the punishing etc ( which frankly is no ones buissness but Gods and each indivdual person and get on with your life.)

[The Atheist]

Excuse me... HAve to say you have missed a whole batch of verses by going for that on Atheist... what about Surrah 109 " for you is your religion, For me is my religion"

That might apply to Jews and christians, but it certainly doesn't cover atheists.


Or surrah 2 verse 256

Nor does that. The "no compulsion" refers to Allah alright, but the continuation of: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in God hath grasped the most trustworthy hand- hold, that never breaks. And God heareth and knoweth all things.

does not suggest in any way that atheism is forgiveable.

Various islamic states tend to take that opinion, both legally and morally. Not too many atheist bus signs in Teheran, Riyadh, Baghdad, Kabul, or even Dubai.


Really I don't see why hate comes into it, becaue cally it goes beyond that
there is " God Damns he who damns others"
Judge not lest you be judged.

It doesn't seem to stop the vast majority of opinion in islam judging and condemning atheism, so I'd need to see some legitimate evidence to the contrary before I can agree with you.

I'm not saying all muslims are judgemental, but your holy book - just like the christian one - does not have any scope for atheism to be allowable.


... I believe that All the Abrahmic religions worship the same God...

That's a simple historical fact - it's possibly the one thing the mullahs and the Pope Ratzinger agree on. I find it most amusing that some people choose to not believe it.

[Nightshade]

Actually atheist religion is the wrong interpretation of the word...or rather doesn't have the scope that the arabic word deen does. Deen refers more than theology god etc, religion in terms of the arabic word and islamic context means a whole way of life in some ways deen isn't really anything to do with God. So the verse means To you your way and to me my way. So yeah it does cover atheism. In some interpretations. :D

[caddy_caddy]

I guess it depends on your interpretation of the Quran, which is pretty clear on the subject:

Sura 9:73,74 O Prophet, strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,-- an evil refuge indeed. ... God will punish them with a grievous penalty in this life and in the Hereafter. They shall have none on this earth to protect or help them.

Bukhari, volume 9, 17 The blood of a Muslim ... cannot be shed except in three cases: in Qisas (equality in punishment) for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (Apostate) and leaves the Muslims.

Would you love a murderer? The crime of not accepting the muslim god (atheism) is equivalent to murder.
Yes God said so and this is very clear " as a law " . God said I won't forgive them , but he doesn't say I won't mercy them . On the contrary in one of the verses He says" my mercy embraces everything ".He does not exclude any sin or any one . His mercy has no limits . Mercy and forgiving are two different attributes of God . Mercy is much more broader than forgiving . And mercy has the upper hand over justice and over any other attributes of God .
You'll find that the two attributes that has to do with mercy are always connected with the personal name of God , ALLAH .That puts too much emphasis on these two attributes among 99 .
As a rule God won't forgive atheists , this is the only Unforgivable sin , but what if God wants to mercy them ? In this case forgiving would be an act of mercy.
We should never give up the hope in the mercy of God and for ever ask for it . This is the variable"m" that interferes in the equation and sets its result .
For sure an atheist won't ask God for mercy but we should ask God to mercy them not to feel happy we will go to heaven and they will go to hell . God said that No one is a true believer unless he wishes for his fellow human being what he wishes for himself . There is for ever a room left for Mercy . We should never forget that .

[Jeremydav]

There is NOT common origins. The God of Abraham appeared to him about 2000 BC, while Mohamed did not write down his concepts of islam until after AD 600. The doctrine of islam denies any concept of a trinity, therefore the God of Abraham (Elohim as it is referred in Genesis 1:1) cannot be the god that islam worships. Elohim is a plural reference of the Hebrew 'el' which is god. These concepts are completely incompatible. And since the religions developed over 2,600 years apart, it is unlikely that they have anything to do with each other.

They have everything to do with each other...mohammed was a prophet of the Abrahamic God. The trinity is an interpretation of God.

[The Atheist]

In some interpretations. :D

Yes, that's one of the lucky things about all religions - the holy books are always open to individual interpretation to ensure that no doctrine is left unturned.

[yuka]

if i love god, i' love everyone

[BienvenuJDC]

They have everything to do with each other...mohammed was a prophet of the Abrahamic God. The trinity is an interpretation of God.

Then please provide me with the evidence for that...
No mention of him in the Biblical accounts?

[The Atheist]

Then please provide me with the evidence for that...

Here. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religions)

Yes, it's Wikipedia, but it happens to be something which is universally agreed - that Islam, Judaism and Christianity all share the exact same origins and god. Your god is islam's Allah, and denying it would make you a minority of one. Seriously - talk to theologians in your own church; they cannot be unaware that all three major Abrahamic religions have the same god.



No mention of him in the Biblical accounts?

Uh, there wouldn't be; Muhammad lived 500 years after the last gospel was written.

[hellsapoppin]

In the Christian New Testament it says to love everybody unconditionally ~ even your own worse enemies.

[ThereisTruth]

I'm not sure where you think you are commanded to hate people who hate God, but it's not in the Bible. An earlier post quoted where Jesus said if you're not for Him you're against Him, but that's just stating a fact, not saying that He hates people who are not for Him. God loves everyone.

Romans 5:8: "God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." Romans 5:10: "While we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son." John 3:16: "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life."

God loves those who hate Him, and He wants those who love Him to love everyone. Over and over the Bible tells us to love: love your enemies, love your neighbor, bless those who curse you, treat others the way you want to be treated.

[arrytus]

i believe in trolls and make my bread from the bones of people who don't

[chrissy613]

Psalms 139:21
Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?

Psalms 139:22
I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.

Psalms 139:23
Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts:

Psalms 139:24
see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.


Hopefully that answers your question :)

[weltanschauung]

I really don't follow your logic. Are people so polarised in their emotions that a neutral response would engender hatred?
I think most people are polarized
What you are talking about is intolerance - you don't love what I love and so I hate you.

I don't get the kids analogy either. If someone hated my kids - that is wished them harm - then I would defend them. Dislike I can put up with. Neutrality is ok. Love is better.
It's the mere feeling not taking any action .

In the modern city we actually conduct most of our lives with unknown people for whom we feel neutral. I can't see anything wrong with this.
Neither me but I think it needs effort.

As for your God, I think by adopting that attitude you are engendering a dangerous intolerance
This is me who wants to explore this feeling . I like to go deep in the dark places of our psyche although it's very dangerous . As for my God he told me that Satan is your real enemy so hate him .

if someone doesn't love God, or my kids, I would be wrong to make it my problem by hating them -
so you use your ethical system by saying " hatred is wrong ".

a response that cannot possibly incite love in return - what service do you do God by harbouring hatred and ultimately spreading hate?
i'm not harbouring anything . Hatred exists , it's a fact in our life .

Nah. Love all and it's all good. If someone didn't love my kids, I wouldn't hate them just for that.
That's fair .

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs075.snc6/168584_10150132875562033_541527032_7690912_3937404 _n.jpg
THINK about it.

[JuniperWoolf]

If I ever needed another reason to be nauseated by religion, this thread has done the job.

[weltanschauung]

hahahahaha ^^^^^^ *awesome*

[sports24x]

no...because god expresses love..

[The Atheist]

no...because god expresses love..

In what way?

[BienvenuJDC]

In what way?

You wouldn't understand if it were told to you...

[JuniperWoolf]

He means because you're so obviously much more stupid than he is, Atheist.

[BienvenuJDC]

He means because you're so obviously much more stupid than he is, Atheist.

No, it's not about intelligence, it's about openminded perspective... and a desire to see something that one hasn't ever seen before...

[The Atheist]

No, it's not about intelligence, it's about openminded perspective... and a desire to see something that one hasn't ever seen before...

And yet, I thrive on new things, new discoveries and things I've never seen before...

But I'm happy to wait until the poster who made the claim responds.

[caddy_caddy]

If I ever needed another reason to be nauseated by religion, this thread has done the job.


you're lucky , when sth nauseated me I keep silent .

[Scheherazade]

~

Since this thread is not serving its original purpose,

it will now be closed.

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