The Old Man and the Sea

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

So, I just got done teaching this in a class. I'm just curious to hear some people's thoughts on it.

[Patrick_Bateman]

What did your students think?

[twit]

Manly tears....

But really it's just an excuse for failure, taking solace in thinking that your actions don't mean anything.

[JuniperWoolf]

Manly tears....

But really it's just an excuse for failure, taking solace in thinking that your actions don't mean anything.

I don't know about that. It goes against the modern idea that "you can do anything you set your mind to!" which is really total bunk. Sometimes things just fall apart (in the case of the fish, kind of literally) and it sucks and you have no control over it.

[twit]

I don't know about that. It goes against the modern idea that "you can do anything you set your mind to!" which is really total bunk. Sometimes things just fall apart (in the case of the fish, kind of literally) and it sucks and you have no control over it.
Sartre would like to have a word with you.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

What did your students think?

I'd say about half hated it, a fourth were neutral, and the other fourth really enjoyed it. It was better than I thought it would be; I thought more students would dislike it. It kind of sucked, though, because I had two classes, and the half that hated it were all in one class, while the rest were in the other.

[whispers]

Old Man and the Sea
Should we continue to teach such novels to the students?
Teaching Old Man and the Sea is experiencing Santiago's day out in the sea...

[dfloyd]

I'm not much of a fisherman, and I think there are a lot of Hemingway works much better. When he (Hemingway) won his nobel prize, this work was cited. I am curious why you taught this particular story to teach. Was it selected for you? You sound as if you are teaching high school students and this is a safe story with no sexual overtones. I don't think this should be a younger student's first exposure to Hemingway since this may alienate the younger student so he/she doesn't return to this great American writer.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

No, it was not my choice. If it were, I would have chosen Lord of the Flies. If anything, I would have done some of Hemingway's short stories.

[dfloyd]

Of course, some of the short stories are free from sexual innuendos such those titled 'Up in Michigan'. 'Islands in the Stream' or 'A Movable Feast' would be suitable for young readers. I started on Hemingway in High-school in the 50s, but I read his novels myself without any classroom supervision. It's not that 'Old Man' is so bad, but it would turn off a lot of young people as you discovered.

[Buh4Bee]

I loved Old Man in the Sea, but it is rather simplistic. It possibly could be taught to advanced 8th graders or even HS freshmen. Historically I think the book is valuable. I also agree that it can be a turn-off by how slow and boring it gets at times. I equated the pace to a baseball game.

[PeterL]

It would be different, if Hemingway had dreamed it up, but the book recounts what happened to a Cuban fisherman who went through the events in the book.

[Buh4Bee]

I didn't know that.

[PeterL]

I didn't know that.

The guy that it happened to and who told Hemingway gave some interviews maybe 10 years ago. It you search online, then you might find something about it, but there's too much about Hemingway for to be found easily.

[keilj]

It would be different, if Hemingway had dreamed it up, but the book recounts what happened to a Cuban fisherman who went through the events in the book.

the strength of the book was the fisherman's conversation with himself (or his internal monologue), and Hemingway's ability to express that in fictional prose - and not the series of events of "guy gets up. goes fishing. catches a big one. it gets eaten by sharks"

[PeterL]

the strength of the book was the fisherman's conversation with himself (or his internal monologue), and Hemingway's ability to express that in fictional prose - and not the series of events of "guy gets up. goes fishing. catches a big one. it gets eaten by sharks"

If you run across the man's account, it will become clear where Hemingway got things.

[keilj]

If you run across the man's account, it will become clear where Hemingway got things.

so you're saying a newspaper columnist could have typed up the man's story and it would have been just as good as Hemingway's novel?? Or are you saying that anything that is not 100% pulled from the author's imagination is not fit for a fiction novel??

Regardless, both assertions are wrong

[PeterL]

so you're saying a newspaper columnist could have typed up the man's story and it would have been just as good as Hemingway's novel?? Or are you saying that anything that is not 100% pulled from the author's imagination is not fit for a fiction novel??

Regardless, both assertions are wrong

So you would agree with me that Hemingway did a good job writing up a factual account. or are you asserting that he wrote a complete fiction, or what? I ask, because I made no assertion about Hemingway's book. I only recounted news reports that he had used events that happened to Cuban fisherman as the background for his book.

Do you have a definition for the word "novel" in reference to books that does not specify that it be a work of fiction?

To be completely honest, a few years ago I tried to define the difference between fiction and non-fiction. The only difference that I could determine was the intention of the author. There are non-fiction books that are completely made up, and there are novels that simply recount events that happened in the world.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

As far as I can gather, Hemingway got the idea for TOMATS based on the story told by him by an old man. How much detail the man went into, I don't know, but I think Hemingway makes the story enough so that it shows his writing ability. I don't think he's just copying down what he heard.

[Voivod30]

I just finished reading the book in dispute a few days ago. I thought it was good/perhaps even great for the most part. I think the fact that it's basically a novella was to its advantage because it came dangerously close to tedium towards the end. The internal struggle of the old man was very effective in my opinion. I think people get to caught up in discussing whether it's cannon or considered a classic and such nonsense. It was an enjoyable read and though I didn't read it in high school (I was forced to read Billy Budd instead now that was torture) I don't see why it would be a problem to do so. Having said all of this I love most Hemingway that I have read (For Whom The Bell Tolls is one of the most enjoyable novels I've ever read) and take little to no importance of the opinion of literary snobs who claim Hemingway isn't essential cannon.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Are there many literary snobs who don't think Hemingway should be cannon? I am not a Hemingway fan. I don't like his style--his prose seems boring and tedious. That doesn't mean I don't recognize the impact he made, and the uniqueness of his style.

[*Classic*Charm*]

I loved The Old Man and the Sea! I found it absolutely heart wrenching, for the fact that I think it's very honest about how people become absorbed by one goal because they simply have nothing else. And the fact that they commit themselves to that one goal still doesn't guarantee success. It's a very sad statement about life. I also found the imagery very vivid.

That being said, it's the only Hemingway I've read, so I can't make a statement about his work as a whole.