When Words Fail

[Mnemosyne]

Why does it seem difficult to write a poem sometimes when poetry should be simple as a way of self-expression?

You will never be happy if you continue to search for what happiness consists of. You will never live if you are looking for the meaning of life.

Albert Camus

[Alexander III]

Why does it seem difficult to sculpt a statue when sculpture should be simple as a way of self-expression ?

[Silas Thorne]

Well, I think no one serious about their poetry or any other form of art really thinks it is a simple way of self-expression anyway. :)

[JBI]

Well, I think no one serious about their poetry or any other form of art really thinks it is a simple way of self-expression anyway. :)

When something is "self expression" or just "self expression" the question of why others should be interested comes to mind. The whole idea that we should like to listen to people's personal feelings is absurd.

Our idea of poetics is rooted in a self expression that really is an educated lie. The beautiful words are used to cloud the fact that reality is being bent, and the real experience is warped to fit the poetic medium and convention, thus enabling a wider appreciation.

[Silas Thorne]

JBI, I admit that I was following the original poster's belief in poems as self-expression when I wrote that line, in which I wanted to stress that poems are actually rather difficult to write well.
I think what you've said makes perfect sense, and though your talk of 'clouding', 'warping' and 'bending' makes creating poetry seem rather negative, I can't immediately present things in an alternate way very well. However, can't good poetry remove to some extent, through the use of these conventions, the clouds we might have in our mind which might make us find it difficult to accept the perceptions of another person? You probably just said this though, and I haven't noticed. ;)

I've just discovered the original poster has been banned. Shall those of us who want to talk about poetry in a very abstract way here continue?

[JBI]

JBI, I admit that I was following the original poster's belief in poems as self-expression when I wrote that line, in which I wanted to stress that poems are actually rather difficult to write well.
I think what you've said makes perfect sense, and though your talk of 'clouding', 'warping' and 'bending' makes creating poetry seem rather negative, I can't immediately present things in an alternate way very well. However, can't good poetry remove to some extent, through the use of these conventions, the clouds we might have in our mind which might make us find it difficult to accept the perceptions of another person? You probably just said this though, and I haven't noticed. ;)

I've just discovered the original poster has been banned. Shall those of us who want to talk about poetry in a very abstract way here continue?

Basically we are arguing what Lionel Trilling suggested in is Sincerity and Authenticity, only we have begun to deconstruct it, and treat sincerity as merely a convention, a trope, or theme - which is something I will argue.

In our context, we are passed a romantic era, when now we can appreciate how good poetry is at lying to us, or convincing us of things, even if they are only true within the constructed frame of the poetic discourse.

What we discuss as "passion" or "feeling" in poetry is just as easily "real" "contrived" or "imagined." In poetry and prose this is true, only in poetry we are inclined to be lost more in the rhetoric - that we can imagine Laura even though the whole notion of her even existing is questionable, or that we can see Stella or The Dark Lady in the same light, extended down to the "spontaneous overflow of emotions" that we get in Romantics, or even the destructive violence we see in Sylvia Plath. We are sucked in, regardless of truth, because the vision is exciting, and absorbing, not because it is true.

Truth and "real experience" are not really important, what it comes down to is style and artistic vision, rather personal or contrived, true, sincere, stupid, smart, etc.

I did not mean to argue off of your point, by the way, I meant my response to be a sort of palimpsest of yours.