divinity in low persons

[NikolaiI]

the simple thing that fails to be noticed by many people
is that there's complete, full divinity even among the lowest persons.

Even in the drunkard who lives in the park, there is divinity -
it is not hope, belief, or faith,

It is like that their drunkenness is a path from sanity,
they too have come from a clearer reality -

Though you see them now, in their lowest state,
they once stood by the clear waters of calmness.

The circle is unbroken, and what does this mean?
that beyond all dualities we are one with the source.

[MANICHAEAN]

Excellent NikolaiI. Captured & expressed well.

In Durban once on a Sunday, in the empty business district, I saw what is so obscenely described these days as a "bag lady" i.e. down & out with all her worldly possessions about her. In such cases you are faced with the moral dilemma of "free will". You can, if you so chose, walk on the other side.

I approached and handed over some rand in as respectful a manner as I could muster. In fact I was embarassed. The look she gave will always stay with me. Christ in his wretched disguise.

[PrinceMyshkin]

What a benevolent, humane thought! I'd have preferred it if instead of "divinity" you'd used humanity, but I do understand how important divinity is to you.

[Haunted]

there is so much wisdom in these lines:



It is like that their drunkenness is a path from sanity,
they too have come from a clearer reality

[Jerrybaldy]

I too felt the word humanity crying out in the place of divinity, but thats just my thought ( and Prince's ;) ) The message in your poem probably remains the same either way and you put it across well.
cheers
JerryB

[tailor STATELY]

Very engrossing poem.

It reminded me of a spiritual poem that I hold dear [though some may disagree with my analogy] by Myra Brooks Welch, "The Touch of the Master's Hand" (http://gbgm-umc.org/disc/poems/mastershand.stm); which in essence depicts all men & women regardless of station esteemed of high worth, and more - yes a divinity, bringing all full circle in a fashion not too dissimilar to NikolaiI's poem.

A keeper NikolaiI.

Thank you for sharing.

Sincerely,
tailor STATELY

[NikolaiI]

Excellent NikolaiI. Captured & expressed well.

In Durban once on a Sunday, in the empty business district, I saw what is so obscenely described these days as a "bag lady" i.e. down & out with all her worldly possessions about her. In such cases you are faced with the moral dilemma of "free will". You can, if you so chose, walk on the other side.

I approached and handed over some rand in as respectful a manner as I could muster. In fact I was embarassed. The look she gave will always stay with me. Christ in his wretched disguise.

Thanks :)


What a benevolent, humane thought! I'd have preferred it if instead of "divinity" you'd used humanity, but I do understand how important divinity is to you.

Ah, thanks for your suggestion. But I really do mean divinity.

I guess a quote of Swami Vivekananda's would help explain. He put it,

"Herein lies the whole secret of Existence. Waves may roll over the surface and tempest rage, but deep down there is the stratum of infinite calmness, infinite peace, and infinite bliss."

And that clearer reality, the divine consciousness, bliss, and peace, is not a hope, a state, or belief, but a reality that has been and can be experienced.


there is so much wisdom in these lines:

Thanks so much :)


I too felt the word humanity crying out in the place of divinity, but thats just my thought ( and Prince's ;) ) The message in your poem probably remains the same either way and you put it across well.
cheers
JerryB

Thank you Jerry I am glad you liked it.


Very engrossing poem.

It reminded me of a spiritual poem that I hold dear [though some may disagree with my analogy] by Myra Brooks Welch, "The Touch of the Master's Hand" (http://gbgm-umc.org/disc/poems/mastershand.stm); which in essence depicts all men & women regardless of station esteemed of high worth, and more - yes a divinity, bringing all full circle in a fashion not too dissimilar to NikolaiI's poem.

A keeper NikolaiI.

Thank you for sharing.

Sincerely,
tailor STATELY

Thank you so much, T.S. - I absolutely loved the poem you put a link to, and I think I've read it before. It must be a famous poem. Anyway it was very beautiful, and I'm really glad if my poem could have brought that one into your thoughts.

I do agree with your analogy. Stanzas 3 and 7 correspond especially to what I meant in this poem. It's a really great poem. I love the repetition of crowd with the adjectives "thoughtless" and "foolish."

I think I was trying to say pretty much the same thing as Myra Welch is in her poem. At least very similar. Thanks so much for reading and posting.

[PrinceMyshkin]

And that clearer reality, the divine consciousness, bliss, and peace, is not a hope, a state, or belief, but a reality that has been and can be experienced.


Here we are at what is to me the division between the believers and the un-(or perhaps the anti-)believers: that it "has been and can be experienced" by those who are not only willing but eager to believe it, I cannot doubt; nor that it will likely never be experienced by those, like me, who are not only indisposed to believe it but feel it would take something away from the primacy of my experience of reality if I were to believe it.

Which brings me to a quandary I've encountered before: which is how can I have the deepest connection with believers I otherwise respect and admire unless one or the other of us is willing to cross the bridge between us?

[RaoulDuke]

I love the sentiments of the poem.

I have reservations about the title however. The title is the first thing the reader notices, and is your own introduction to the poem. I suppose 'low persons' has a slightly different meaning in a more ancient religious sense, but in the tongues of today it sounds, to me, very condescending, and goes against the of ideas of understanding presented in the five couplets.

[NikolaiI]

Here we are at what is to me the division between the believers and the un-(or perhaps the anti-)believers: that it "has been and can be experienced" by those who are not only willing but eager to believe it, I cannot doubt; nor that it will likely never be experienced by those, like me, who are not only indisposed to believe it but feel it would take something away from the primacy of my experience of reality if I were to believe it.

Which brings me to a quandary I've encountered before: which is how can I have the deepest connection with believers I otherwise respect and admire unless one or the other of us is willing to cross the bridge between us?

I am at a loss, Prince. You say who is willing to cross the bridge between us? but I never knew there was a bridge. And I cannot help but sense some derision in your first paragraph. I tried to answer your statements a couple of times, anyway I have to go now, so I'll leave what I've written for now.

Trust me on this, then, if you experience non-duality, not in the slightest would it take away from the primacy of your experience of reality. To experience being one with the universe is to experience that stratum of infinite calmness, peace, and bliss. Now is there, or has there ever been, anyone who experiences that all the time? I cannot say and have no interest really - just as you have no interest in what I say. It has not ever been my experience to feel being one with the universe all the time, and that is fine with me. I know that there are higher levels of consciousness than what I am right now, I've experienced divine bliss, peace and consciousness. I use those terms without reservation because they accurately describe what I felt.


I love the sentiments of the poem.

I have reservations about the title however. The title is the first thing the reader notices, and is your own introduction to the poem. I suppose 'low persons' has a slightly different meaning in a more ancient religious sense, but in the tongues of today it sounds, to me, very condescending, and goes against the of ideas of understanding presented in the five couplets.

Hm? I only meant it in the modern use.

I don't really understand what your problem with the title is. I certainly didn't mean to appear condescending.

[Silas Thorne]

Hi Nik! Great work! Your thoughts are simply and clearly expressed. :)

Actually, while I love the poem and to a good extent agree with the message in it, I'm also not so sure about using the phrase 'low persons' as it to a certain extent creates a duality, while you are saying in the poem that, at the deepest level, there is none. Of course you identify these people as people 'in their lowest state', which for some is true, but classifying them as 'low persons' does seem in conflict with the message in your heart, as I understand it anyway.

Reading your poem, my thoughts return to the koan: 'Does even a dog have Buddha nature?' however, I question the 'even' in the translation I know, in the same way as I question the 'lower persons' distinction here. Permitting the one is permitting the all.

Just thoughts and reactions.

[NikolaiI]

Thanks Silas, I'm so glad you liked it so much.

I've thought about it some...

First I don't know why it would seem condescending, the whole point of my poem is that they're divine and noble at their heart, their core. Also, I am not writing this as a moral imperative to people to feed the homeless, clothe them, or anything. I guess I should make that clear. It's not about morality. It's more about the quality of life, state of consciousness. I guess I really mean to say that this reality has come from a clearer reality, that there is a clearer reality, just as the person here only narrowly missed a sober, healthy life.

I'm talking about people who lost a great deal of their lives to drugs, their health and their money and everything else. You object to me saying they're low perons - well, this isn't really the point, but since you brought it up I have to answer. They're low on money, good looks, and intelligence. I am not saying life should be measured by those things. But people look good, for instance, when they are healthy, but I am speaking of someone who destroyed their health. And you may object to my saying they have low intelligence, but I have met these people, and they do. Perhaps they were once average. But drugs destroy intelligence. So 20 years of drug use destroy health, looks, intelligence, money, life - etc., etc.

I am not saying they are not good people, some are - but again it's not really about morality. There's good and bad in every social group.

I'm sorry to have to go into all this because that is not the main part of the poem. I hope this clears it up a little? Or has it made you think I am even more condescending? I don't know. As I said, I don't think that it reads as condescending if you see the poem.

[Maryd.]

Dear sir, truly a beautiful piece of writing. Your wisdom, never ceases to amaze me. Well done sir.

[NikolaiI]

Aw, thank you so much Mary. <3

[kittypaws]

Whether we want to belive it or not we all have a god or goddess to some extend that is a part of us. That is not to say the god or goddess is good or evil, for one can not exist without the other.

I enjoyed your poem very much, thank you.

kittypaws

[NikolaiI]

Thank you very much Kitty paws