Words & Cliches you HATE the Most. . . [Archive]

The Comedian

09-23-2010, 12:33 PM

We all love words. And as word lovers, we're bound to hate a few too. So what are the words and cliches that make your literary blood boil? And why do you hate them so?

I'll give my most hated in each category:

Most Hated Word

"Learner" -- fashionable teacher-speak for "student". And "student" has always seemed a perfectly acceptable term for me to describe what one does while attending school. The hated "learner", however, seems to lessen the noble role of student. Is a "writer" merely a "typist?". . . . is a "sculptor" just a "stone worker"?. . .

Most Hated Cliche

"Short and sweet" -- this is what people say when they mean this: "I don't want to think or write that much, and I want to feel superior to those who do spend the time think out and explain their ideas"

Sometimes short is not sweet. Sometimes short is sour and mal-nutritiousness. Sometimes we should prefer "sustained and wholesome" to "short and sweet."

Patrick_Bateman

09-23-2010, 01:23 PM

"At the end of the day"

kiki1982

09-23-2010, 01:43 PM

Armel P

09-23-2010, 02:07 PM

Touch base.

"Yeah, I'm just calling to touch base with you..."
"Really? Well I've got a base you can... never mind."

It's a souless corporate phrase that makes me cringe.

L.M. The Third

09-23-2010, 02:40 PM

Overuse of words and phrases such as "cool", "like" and "what's up".

katelbach

09-23-2010, 02:41 PM

Incorrect use of 'literally' (think that's a common one).

Use of the word 'absolutely' instead of 'yes' is rife as well.

Armel P

09-23-2010, 02:43 PM

Incorrect use of 'literally' (think that's a common one).

Strong agreement.

iamnobody

09-23-2010, 07:33 PM

"irregardless" makes me cringe, also:"before you know it"

tsjbbblue

09-23-2010, 11:12 PM

When someone calls and says "Are you busy?" and you say "Yes" or "Kind of" (to be polite) and they still just go on on, not really caring if your busy or not.

Or LOL, when you are texting and someone puts LOL after everything that they say even if it is a serious conversation...

L.M. The Third

09-24-2010, 12:23 AM

^ I agree. Chat-speak in general is disturbing to me though.

OrphanPip

09-24-2010, 12:31 AM

I have a tendency to overuse lol in IMs, I think its my tendency for nervous laughter manifesting itself in type.

I'm not sure there are any words or phrases I particularly hate.

tsjbbblue

09-24-2010, 12:33 AM

Not that I NEVER say LOL or LMAO or whatever, but it does annoy me a little...lol.. :) Just kiddin...

MANICHAEAN

09-24-2010, 12:50 AM

I cannot abide corporate & political verbiage such as:

"Not a team player" (Thinks for himself)

"Lets be absolutely clear" (Thats given me time to think what I'm going to say)

"I'm afraid we are going to have to let you go." (Your fired. Clear your desk)

"Its absolutely essential." (These are my priorities and you'd better follow)

"Raising the bar" (Buzz words)

"Finishing strong." (More buzz words)

"Synergy" (A mutually advantageous conjunction or compatibility of distinct business participants or elements, as resources or efforts) Wow! Very likely a good word, but used in a meeting to discuss site toilets! Come on, give me a break.

"You hear me now?" at the end of a conversation. (Bit like "How do you do?" not really requiring an answer. Anyway, you think I'm deaf as well as thick.)

"I'm not one to gossip as you know." (Pay attention, as you won't believe what he/she did.)

"When I was in ----." (I've been everywhere.)

"Absolutely" (Standard response of a TV news reporter to a question.) It would be so much more interesting to hear "Tommy rot, who told you that fairy story?"

Leland Gaunt

09-24-2010, 01:16 AM

Huh, over the internet any way of laughing other than lol just confuses me. Hahahahaha, and the like just seem sarcastic to me.

In the real world, I don't like when people use the words whatever or probably. Such as, "I'll have a club sandwich, or whatever". I know now that it is never going to be whatever, but it still annoys me.

Or when people of my own age call me, hon' or dear.

TheFifthElement

09-24-2010, 03:30 AM

"To cut a long story short" because as soon as someone says that you know you're in for a long and boring monologue which is anything but short.

The Comedian

09-24-2010, 08:46 AM

"To cut a long story short" because as soon as someone says that you know you're in for a long and boring monologue which is anything but short.

:lol: Indeed!

soundofmusic

09-24-2010, 01:55 PM

God, I suddenly feel like I have nothing to say...I've used almost all of those phrases in daily speech, it's just a way of communicating when one feels somewhat "out in left field", not "on the same page"....:blush:

katelbach

09-24-2010, 03:45 PM

JuniperWoolf

09-24-2010, 04:29 PM

I hate it when people describe things as "interesting." God, I hate it so much. When I get out of a stupid movie that's trying too hard to be artistic but only manages to mash together meaningless garbage, I could bite all of the people that I overhear talking about how "interesting" the film was. "Well, it was very interesting." Ugh. What is that even supposed to mean? It's just a way of saying nothing and trying not to look stupid.

I also hate it when they start a discussion with "You know what's interesting?" Yes I do, and it's very likely not what you're about to tell me.

Scarlett O'Hara

09-24-2010, 05:55 PM

Well, for me it's 'how are you'. The most ludicrous superficial question where no-one actually cares about the answer, but just must ask it...

My hubby, he just told me, always replies in full, just to make a point :D

I must try that sometime. Although I am guilty of using the 'how are you' several times, particularly to all the customers I have served. I geniunely care about how people are, but its just so overused that it seems ingenuine and only in an attempt to make conversation (which it often is). It is almost innate for me.
I really ought to come up with a different line

Silas Thorne

09-24-2010, 11:02 PM

'human capital' makes me think of slavery

bouquin

09-25-2010, 06:44 AM

bonding . . . like in, 'Mother and daughter bonded as they went shopping together.'
. . . mushy!

______________________
Currently reading: LE GRAND VOYAGE (Jorge Semprun)

samercury

09-25-2010, 07:21 AM

Emil Miller

09-25-2010, 07:28 AM

Two that were in use a few years ago and which I found slightlty irritating were 'Proactive' and the phrase 'Hit the ground running', both used more in hope than expectation; especially as they were usualy applied to the most inactive and physically maladroit civil servants imaginable.

Scheherazade

09-26-2010, 01:10 PM

iamnobody

09-26-2010, 09:24 PM

How about "I don't mean this in a bad way" and nothing good ever comes next.

William of Waco

09-26-2010, 09:45 PM

The one word that currently chaps my hide is "scrumptious".
This is a Rachel Ray-type word along the lines of "delish".

Cliches:

Chaps my hide

What goes around comes around

A taste of your own medicine

Take the crowd out of the game

Sounds like a plan (I hate it when someone says this to me)

If I told you the secret I'd have to kill you

iamnobody

09-26-2010, 09:56 PM

"Take the crowd out of the game" I've only JUST *heard* this and it's already annoying.

Revolte

09-27-2010, 02:46 AM

'human capital' makes me think of slavery

well of course it does, it has the word capital in it after all.

Hmm, let me think, I don't know if there is anything that really bothers me I think it depends on the person really.

for example, a friend of mine always uses the word ideal, instead of idea, but I think it's adorable when she does it, but I think she's adorable and I know she's as smart as could be.

let me think harder, there has to be something.

"because I said so" is something that bothers the hell out of me, unless used jokingly. It really doesn't say much to a persons character if they have no reasoning to their actions other then because they said so. I always want to slap people when I hear them say that, it's like when people say "I don't have to explain myself", they just CAN'T explain themselves. :crash:

I'm not even sure if that counts but, as long as I'm here, that annoys the hell out of me anyway hahaha.

NikolaiI

09-27-2010, 03:08 AM

Use this article (http://www.wired.com/underwire/2008/11/oxford-research/) in my classes. Students love/hate it because they all use them.

For me, "at the end of the day" (we can all thank Beckam for making this one popular) and "shouldn't of" are the most annoying ones.

Oh, and also, "No offence but..." as I know that as soon as someone says that they will be saying something annoying and "no offence but..." is their claim to immunity from any repurcussions.

What is wrong with "shouldn't have"? As I understand it, "shouldn't have" is what people mean to be saying. I've never seen someone write it as "shouldn't of" but I would say "shouldn't have" is perfectly legitimate. It happens quite a lot though, that people will hear one thing and it gradually changes into another for some.

Or is "shouldn't" one contraction that you're not allowed to make?

kasie

09-27-2010, 05:13 AM

You're right, Nikolai, there's nothing wrong with 'shouldn't have', but Scher's shudder, with which I heartily agree, is over 'shouldn't of'. It's mostly heard from young people who don't seem to appreciate the nature of their error or are just lazily indulging in slovenly speech. They use 'might of' in the same way.

Using 'like' every few words sets my teeth on edge, as does a rising inflection that turns every sentence into a question: 'Like, I went out last night(?) (You understand what I've just said?)'.

A few years ago, the phrase 'By and large' was overused to mean 'generally speaking'. It always made me laugh as it was a nautical term from the days of sailing ships and referred to a rather tricky manoeuvre to make the maximum use of the wind.

MarkBastable

09-27-2010, 06:43 AM

What is wrong with "shouldn't have"? As I understand it, "shouldn't have" is what people mean to be saying. I've never seen someone write it as "shouldn't of" but I would say "shouldn't have" is perfectly legitimate. It happens quite a lot though, that people will hear one thing and it gradually changes into another for some.

Or is "shouldn't" one contraction that you're not allowed to make?

I think the point is that a lot of mistaken native English speakers both say and write 'shouldn't of' rather than 'shouldn't have' because they haven't the first idea of what grammatical and syntactical rules underpin the formation of the verb - not that they need to have any formal analytical grasp of that, because they use, as we all use, quite complex structures that we could never explain but that we'd never get wrong. For some reason 'shouldn't of' and 'could of' seem to wriggle past the internal parser of a large number of English-speakers.

I agree with Scher that it's annoying. And I'd say that most careful and conscientious speakers of English feel that people who perpetrate this error should have their eyes put out and their tongues lacerated before being evicted from their homes and forced to live on landfill sites at the edge of the city, rummaging sightlessly amongst the garbage for scraps of food and wearable rags. Harsh, perhaps, but fair.

Scheherazade

09-27-2010, 05:48 PM

What is wrong with "shouldn't have"?
You're right, Nikolai, there's nothing wrong with 'shouldn't have', but Scher's shudder, with which I heartily agree, is over 'shouldn't of'. It's mostly heard from young people who don't seem to appreciate the nature of their error or are just lazily indulging in slovenly speech. There is nothing wrong with "shouldn't have" but it is the "shouldn't of" (or "could/might of", similarly) that I find annoying - as Kasie and Mark explained above.

Every year, I go through this with my students and quite often I get sympathetic looks from the students (who are all native speakers) that their ESOL speaker tutor surely does not know what she is talking about at least when it comes to "should of" and so on. They will often defend themselves by saying that they have always used it that way so it must be correct.

Even though rarely, some will not be persuaded with the grammatical explanation they receive and go home to inquire on the subject further. They usually come back the following week, saying, "You know my sister's son, yeah? He is like really brainy. Doing A levels now, yeah? He said it is "should have" too, like you said... But I have talked like that all my life!"

Funny thing is that when I first moved to the UK and came across this usage, I was sure that it was something they had not taught us at school and spent a long time trying to figure it out by searching through grammar books! :sosp:

And I'd say that most careful and conscientious speakers of English feel that people who perpetrate this error should have their eyes put out and their tongues lacerated before being evicted from their homes and forced to live on landfill sites at the edge of the city, rummaging sightlessly amongst the garbage for scraps of food and wearable rags. Harsh, perhaps, but fair.Even though Mark and I agree that this usage is annoying, not being a "careful and conscientious speaker of English" myself, I do not advocate this harsh punishment, of course.

I am all for ridiculing by immitating their mistakes whenever they annoy you with their manners or views, instead.

MarkBastable

09-27-2010, 05:53 PM

Even though Mark and I agree that this usage is annoying, not being a "careful and conscientious speaker of English" myself...

Oh, yes, you are.

Only one 'm' in imitate, by the way.

Scheherazade

09-27-2010, 05:58 PM

Only one 'm' in imitate, by the way. Fine, fine... Pick on the ESOL girl's spelling mistake!

Virgil

09-27-2010, 10:10 PM

I've gotten into this terrible habit of saying "right, right, right" as I'm agreeing with someone. How do I strip this from my lingo?

William of Waco

09-27-2010, 11:01 PM

I've gotten into this terrible habit of saying "right, right, right" as I'm agreeing with someone. How do I strip this from my lingo?

That is what I usually say to someone whose conversation I find rather boring. It gives them the impression that I am intensely interested.
This also helps to prevent my mind from wandering onto other things while they talk.
Whenever I am speaking to someone who has interesting things to say I never say "right, right, right". I listen to them in silence.

L.M. The Third

09-28-2010, 02:45 PM

I have a tendency to overuse lol in IMs, I think its my tendency for nervous laughter manifesting itself in type.

No offense intended, Pip, but... (Didn't someone say they hated that phrase? And for just reason, so I'll begin again.)

What I really hate is that people use 'lol' to express almost every sentiment, from mild amusement to sarcasm to embarrassment. It's a very cramped way to communicate, because these things could be much more clearly expressed through a more creative use of English.

On a side note: Emma Thompson, who studied English literature at Cambridge, has joined the ranks of those of us deploring the degeneration of the English language amongst youth.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/8028391/Actress-Emma-Thompson-attacks-poor-language.html#dsq-content

dafydd manton

09-28-2010, 03:11 PM

Last year, I was an Instructor. Now, I am a Coach. What the hell are they going to do, take my teeth out and fit seats?

Scheherazade

09-28-2010, 03:54 PM

On a side note: Emma Thompson, who studied English literature at Cambridge, has joined the ranks of those of us deploring the degeneration of the English language amongst youth.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/8028391/Actress-Emma-Thompson-attacks-poor-language.html#dsq-contentThere has been an article on BBC in response to Thompson's comments:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11426737

altheskeptic

09-28-2010, 05:44 PM

Let's agree to disagree.

I hate that one. :mad5:

By the way I am not a writer. I'm an avid reader though.

Emil Miller

09-28-2010, 06:01 PM

There has been an article on BBC in response to Thompson's comments:

Hardly surprising, given the BBC's determination to dumb everything down to the lowest common denominator in the, oh so self-righteous, cause of a spurious egalitarianism.

L.M. The Third

09-28-2010, 09:00 PM

Sorry, but that BBC article is ridiculous. The fact that that is the way a 'club' or 'group' speaks in no way adds anything to its worth. Again, it simply shows that a generation is becoming sloppy with its use of language - a generation which will have much to unlearn, for it must necessarily provide the teachers, writers, editors and public-speakers of the future. I might be a part of this generation through birth, but I want nothing to do with their slang 'club'.

And, yes, we all use 'fillers' at times. And everyone has listened to people who make constant use of them and it can be incredibly annoying. They can't be entirely done away with, but why can teens not learn to put a little more thought in their use of language? If they can't put thought into something so small, they may not be able to do so in the bigger matters.

Emerson once said, "Creative economy is the fuel of magnificence." I first judge writers and speakers by their 'creative economy'. Are they able to use a minimum of words, with those words being direct and descriptive? If not, it's very easy to tune them out.

MarkBastable

09-29-2010, 07:56 AM

I wouldn't worry. Over centuries, the English language has proved resilient enough and adaptable enough to survive the destructive attentions not only of those who use it carelessly but also of those who purport to care for it.

Taliesin

09-29-2010, 05:46 PM

bonding . . . like in, 'Mother and daughter bonded as they went shopping together.'
. . . mushy!

If it's sane, safe and consensual, then I don't judge.

For intopic, I think that confusing the words "inflation" and "fellatio" (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/27/rachida-dati-former-frenc_n_740828.html) can be somewhat disturbing. Especially in bedroom.

Oh, and "It's not rocket science.". It feels just so weak and overused - using rocket science as an etalon for complicatedness? Please.

EDIT: And now I remember the phrase among Estonian youth that I despise - using "alcohol" instead of "drink" or "alcoholic beverage". Firstly, it's wildly inaccurate - usually, the alcohol content in alcoholic drinks s rather low - usually about 40% or lower.
Secondly, the phrase reduces an excellent Scotch whiskey, a fine Belgian beer or a pleasant Georgian wine just to their alcohol content. It demonstrates a lack of respect towards the drinks. It's like drinking vodka straight from the bottle - just disgusting. How can you have respect towards yourself if you don't have respect towards something that alters your mind?

Pensive

09-30-2010, 08:55 AM

Nevermind.

L.M. The Third

09-30-2010, 01:27 PM

Nevermind.

Yes, I can see how annoying it must be. I'm afraid I'm guilty of too often beginning to speak and then deciding against it. Whenever I say "nevermind", my mother says, "Oh, no, no! You can tell me. Go ahead and tell me." But my best friend says, "All right. I won't mind." Which of the two do you think I prefer?

Pensive

10-01-2010, 04:46 AM

Yes, I can see how annoying it must be. I'm afraid I'm guilty of too often beginning to speak and then deciding against it. Whenever I say "nevermind", my mother says, "Oh, no, no! You can tell me. Go ahead and tell me." But my best friend says, "All right. I won't mind." Which of the two do you think I prefer?

Actually it very much depends upon the context, I myself am a huge believer of respecting people's privacy but it's pretty annoying when they begin telling you something and then say nevermind just to create a dramatic effect.

MarkBastable

10-01-2010, 06:40 AM

What irritates me is the use of 'nevermind' as one word. In Brit it's certainly two words, because it's an imperative verbal phrase. (Go and get my coat. Actually, never mind.)

If it's one word - what kind of word is it? Merriam's suggests that it might be a conjunction, implying that that the use of those two words is now so independent of the notion of the order ("I can barely walk - never mind run; don't even think about running; let alone run.") that it actually operates as a conjunction. I'm not convinced by that at all, frankly. I'm not even engaged by the argument, never mind convinced.

But whatever part of language it is, I'd be interested to know how recently it became one acceptable word in widely-used American English. My guess is September 1991.

SleepyWitch

10-03-2010, 07:27 AM

What irritates me is the use of 'nevermind' as one word. In Brit it's certainly two words, because it's a imperative verbal phrase. (Go and get my coat. Actually, never mind.)

If it's one word - what kind of word is it? Merriam's suggests that it might be a conjunction, implying that that the use of those two words is now so independent of the notion of the order ("I can barely walk - never mind run; don't even think about running; let alone run.") that it actually operates as a conjunction. I'm not convinced by that at all, frankly. I'm not even engaged by the argument, never mind convinced.

But whatever part of language it is, I'd be interested to know how recently it became one acceptable word in widely-used American English. My guess is September 1991.

I suppose it could belong to two word classes depending on how it is used, so it would be a conjunction if it is followed by another verb/clause. It wouldn't necessarily have to be spelled as one word to be a conjunction though. E.g. because of or instead of are prepositions and are clearly made up of two words. Could you use it with a noun phrase? E.g. Never mind the neighbours.? In this case it would be a preposition. Whereas when it is used without another clause or noun phrase following it, it would be an imperative. I do agree that spelling it as one word looks weird. Wouldn't you be tempted to stress it on the first syllable, i.e. NEVermind?

Scheherazade

10-05-2010, 02:59 AM

Nevermind.Oooh, that is a good one, Pensive.

Frankly speaking, I don't know whether I type "nevermind" or "never mind" but, from now on, I am bound to pay attention.

My students tend to write "no one" without a space as well; probably because of "nobody".

MarkBastable

10-26-2010, 08:47 AM

Could you use it with a noun phrase? E.g. Never mind the neighbours.? In this case it would be a preposition. Whereas when it is used without another clause or noun phrase following it, it would be an imperative.

I'd say that in the example you quote the verb is 'mind' - as in, I don't care about your clothes, but I mind very much that you're late. (See verbal definitions 20 to 34 here (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/mind).)

So, in the construction you cite, it would be an imperative. Compare Never run with scissors. Never take me for granted. Never consider the neighbours.

Silas Thorne

10-30-2010, 12:30 AM

'more better' and 'more bigger' annoy me..oh, and that song... 'The most loneliest day of my life'. Maybe I'm fighting with an incorporeal enemy that will destroy me.

'level playing field.'

papayahed

10-31-2010, 07:00 PM

"I got no" or its cousin "I got none"

MarkBastable

10-31-2010, 08:29 PM

"I got no" or its cousin "I got none"

You've lost me. What's wrong with those? Me, I got no idea.

papayahed

10-31-2010, 08:47 PM

You've lost me. What's wrong with those? Me, I got no idea.

I hate them.

Silas Thorne

10-31-2010, 08:55 PM

You've lost me. What's wrong with those? Me, I got no idea.

:) Ain't got none neither.

MarkBastable

10-31-2010, 09:23 PM

I hate them.

Yeah, but why?

papayahed

10-31-2010, 10:42 PM

Yeah, but why?

What the hell does that matter?

MarkBastable

11-01-2010, 10:55 AM

What the hell does that matter?

It doesn't matter at all, really, in the great scheme. But usually when people dislike things, it's for a reason, and I just wondered what the reason was in this case.

But if it makes you cross to be asked, I apologise.

coboyle

11-01-2010, 03:56 PM

"At this moment in time"...

What's wrong with saying now?!

Zeniyama

11-03-2010, 02:57 PM

Whenever I hear the phrase "beyond compare", I die a little inside... what's wrong with adding the two extra syllables to make it "beyond comparison"?

MarkBastable

11-03-2010, 04:12 PM

Whenever I hear the phrase "beyond compare", I die a little inside... what's wrong with adding the two extra syllables to make it "beyond comparison"?

It's an archaic form that's survived as an idiom. It's not wrong - it's just dated. I rather like such little anomalies in English. I had to go and see a notary public recently. I have no idea why the adjective has managed to cling on after the noun, as if it were French, but it has, and I'm glad of it. Court martial - there's another one...

jajdude

11-03-2010, 05:38 PM

Some of the common internet expressions these days are overused and sometimes annoying to me. I'm not sure when some of them began or became popular but now they're everywhere.

Some examples:

"+1" --when agreeing

"That being said" or "Having said that" -- How did this catch on in such a big way in recent times?

The misuse of apostrophes everywhere! Seems like a recent development that has taken over the internet and probably the world of English. Even some native speakers teaching English (in Asia anyway) are writing things like, "I saw two dog's. One was chasing it's tail." Ugh.

And the common misspellings: Definately common among loosers.

Silas Thorne

11-03-2010, 06:05 PM

Even some native speakers teaching English (in Asia anyway) are writing things like, "I saw two dog's. One was chasing it's tail." Ugh.

Although the terrible thing is that they were allowed to teach people in the first place. The school administration should also be blamed for this kind of thing happening.
I've probably said it before, but when I was in school one of my teachers wrote 'you could of done this' in my book. I was quite shocked, and my parents were even more so.

Maryd.

11-03-2010, 07:12 PM

Although the terrible thing is that they were allowed to teach people in the first place. The school administration should also be blamed for this kind of thing happening.
I've probably said it before, but when I was in school one of my teachers wrote 'you could of done this' in my book. I was quite shocked, and my parents were even more so.

I have to admit, I am a culprit of writing this way... :hand: Sorry I have no idea why I started it, I wasn't taught that way, I just do it and a lot.:yikes:

Zeniyama

11-06-2010, 10:01 PM

I actually have one word that I feel sympathetic for for being hated so much: alot. I know that it's actually two words, but I really don't see the problem with writing it as one.

I mean, I know you wouldn't write "adozen" or "aton" or anything like that, but "alot" just seems to... feel right. Maybe it's just that I've written it like that all my life and I'm stuck in my ways.

MANICHAEAN

11-06-2010, 10:27 PM

Albeit?

Emil Miller

11-07-2010, 01:39 PM

MarkBastable

11-07-2010, 02:59 PM

Some years ago I overheard two girls talking and one was saying:

"So he goes..." etc. etc.
"Then I goes..." etc. etc.
"So he goes..." etc.etc.

This has since become prevalent to the point where I actually heard Stephen Fry say it not so long ago.

It's been an established London usage ever since I can remember, and it crops up regularly in jolly-chirpy-cockney movies as far back as the thirties. I'd put money, though, on the second girl having used the correct form of the verb. "Then I go......"

prendrelemick

11-08-2010, 08:36 AM

When I hear a Politician spouting that famous Blairism "The truth is...", my heart sinks.

MANICHAEAN

11-08-2010, 09:40 AM

There are unfortunately, standard political phrases today that are completely obtuse and meaningless e.g;

"Let's be absolutely clear about this".

"If you read my full statement, you would understand that what I said was---"

Then of course, there is the dress code & body language:

Flak jackets for reporters anywhere south of Dover & an Arab headscarf wrapped around the neck. Real Julian & Sandy bono stuff!

Showing the right amount of cuff & sock.

Making love to the camera.

Bounding up plane steps.

Using your hands and arms to give emphasis. (Only Italians & Africans do this properly)

Sorry, I know I'm a dodgy old cove but give me any time: Michael Foot in a raincoat, Churchill with one too many drinks, Macmillan treating the BBC like footmen and Harold Wilson blowing pipe smoke in your face.

Emil Miller

11-08-2010, 10:09 AM

MarkBastable

11-08-2010, 10:42 AM

I would love to post something in reply but it would lead to the thread being closed on grounds of politics.
So I'll just mention another grammatical error that's annoying. I refer to the split infinitive, forever embedded in the collective conscience by:

" To boldly go where no one has gone before "

It's a common misconception that there's something wrong with splitting an infinitive in English. Grammatically, there's no reason not to. (Incidentally, that 'to' on the end there is a beheaded infinitive - it implies not to (split one) - and it's standard usage. If splitting an infinitive is all wrong, presumably decapitating one is even worse.)

One suggestion is that the prescriptive ruling that infinitives shouldn't be split was introduced by Victorian grammarians who were trying to impose on English rules that apply in Latin - where it's impossible to split an infinitive, because an infinitive in Latin is one word. Certainly there seems to be no evidence of a documented injunction against it before the late 1800s. The same classically-trained busybodies* also suggested that you shouldn't end a sentence with a preposition - which, again, you can't do in Latin, but which is perfectly sensible in English.

As many commentators have observed, this issue invokes passions out of all proportion to its significance. Even now the OED prevaricates, saying that, because some readers object so strongly to a split infinitive, it's probably best for the careful writer not to do it. Which is a bit bloody craven, if you ask me.

The upshot is, though, that there may be stylistic reasons not to split an infinitive, but that's a question of personal choice, not of hard grammatical law. Also, I'd bet that the people who are unswervingly convinced that you should never split an infinitive far outnumber those who actually know what an infinitive is.

*(That may be a little harsh. They thought they were doing the right thing, as people usually do. They were only human, and susceptible to all the ills to which flesh is heir.)

MANICHAEAN

11-08-2010, 10:42 AM

"My English text is chaste, and all licentious passages are left in the obscurity of a learned language" ?

Try that Brian.

Emil Miller

11-08-2010, 12:36 PM

As regards split infinitives, it is true that Victorian grammarians, who were trying to make the language less diffuse by adhering to certain rules in Latin, insisted on their usage. This has become a bone of contention for writers as diverse as Orwell and, more recently, Bill Bryson but I still accept what I was taught by my English teacher as being correct and to this day I am uneasy about beginning a sentence with a conjunction even though some of my favourite writers have done it. Today of course, nobody has to obey what many think of as outdated requirements, but if the OED recommends or refuses to discount them, that's good enough for me.

MarkBastable

11-08-2010, 09:06 PM

if the OED recommends or refuses to discount them, that's good enough for me.

I think the problem I have with the OED is that they're perpetuating a circular justification. You shouldn't do it because people think it's wrong, and people think it's wrong because you shouldn't do it.

There's no grammatical or syntactical reason for it to be thought wrong. So it's not so much that people don't have to conform to an outdated requirement - because there was never any date at which it was actually a requirement. It was and it remains a stylistic choice, and a particular phalanx of stylists attempted to turn their favoured choice into an obligation.

The English language has never been governed like that, in practice. I mean - what are we? French?

Emil Miller

11-09-2010, 10:47 AM

I think the problem I have with the OED is that they're perpetuating a circular justification. You shouldn't do it because people think it's wrong, and people think it's wrong because you shouldn't do it.

There's no grammatical or syntactical reason for it to be thought wrong. So it's not so much that people don't have to conform to an outdated requirement - because there was never any date at which it was actually a requirement. It was and it remains a stylistic choice, and a particular phalanx of stylists attempted to turn their favoured choice into an obligation.

The English language has never been governed like that, in practice. I mean - what are we? French?

Well clearly it was a requirement, if a person taking an English examination had used it, they would have lost marks for doing so; regardless of the fact that they didn't agree with it. Although it is not known exactly when it came into existence, it is reasonable to assume that, as stated, it was during the Victorian period when Latin was on the curriculum of many schools.

MarkBastable

11-09-2010, 08:17 PM

Well clearly it was a requirement, if a person taking an English examination had used it, they would have lost marks for doing so; regardless of the fact that they didn't agree with it. Although it is not known exactly when it came into existence, it is reasonable to assume that, as stated, it was during the Victorian period when Latin was on the curriculum of many schools.

Yes - fair enough. I meant it was never a requirement of the language - its natural structures and intrinsic syntax. Obviously it was for a while there a requirement of those at the top of the grammar fashion industry.

Silas Thorne

11-09-2010, 10:05 PM

"My English text is chaste, and all licentious passages are left in the obscurity of a learned language" ?

Try that Brian.

I have a copy of Boccacio's 'Decameron' from the late 1800s which leaves pages and pages in the original language precisely for this reason. :D

Emil Miller

11-10-2010, 06:43 AM

I have a copy of Boccacio's 'Decameron' from the late 1800s which leaves pages and pages in the original language precisely for this reason. :D

The difference being, of course, that The Decameron is usually thought of as a "naughty book" and The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire a "scholarly dissertation."

I have just recalled a catchphrase that has an authentic ring of silliness about it.

A carbon footprint.