For the Dutch speakers - this sentence won a prize as the most beautiful sentence.

[kiki1982]

Ok, so this sentence won a prize for the most beautiful sentence of the year. I have asked myself the question whether there was absolutely nothing better to find than this... I mean, the thing is not grammatically correct and sounds awfully out of date. Still, the jury, with whom I started to discuss it on their own weblog unwillingly and unknowingly, defends it and admires it. Am I just being elitist or is this sentence really crap?

"Vijftien jaar had de badkamer met de caravanafmetingen probleemloos dienstgedaan, de sporadisch gekneusde knie niet te na gesproken van wie zich, zijn toilet makend of zich scherend voor het lavabootje, te bruusk omdraaide en aan den lijve moest ervaren hoe gering de speling was gebleven tussen rand en wand."

So, the end is nice, but the gerunds are awfully out of date (in German they would work, though), as are 'te na spreken', 'ervaren' ('aan den lijve ondervinden' would have been better and more fluent, but 'aan den lijve ervaren' is then probably even a linguisitc mistake called 'contamination'), 'gering' could also have been substitued by its more contemporary equivalent and 'wand', well...

Not to speak of the first part. After the 'end' of the sentence, the sentence still has to start and one has to read twice before one can actually see what the thing says.
Ironically, it sounds loads better in German, even sounds as brilliant as Kafka. But in Dutch...

Someone opinions or am I alone? The jury consisted of three people involved in a literary magazine, amongst which a 'famous' poet (which doesn't say anything of course).

Sorry for my rant, but I wanted to get my concern off my chest.

I'll try to give a translation:

"Fifteen years the bathroom of caravan-size had served without problems, the sporadically hurt knee not too much considered of him (or her) who, making her toilette or shaving himself in front of the small sink, turned round too abruptly and had to bodily experience how small a gap had remained between edge and wall." ('ledge' would be better, but that's not a wall is it...)

[Aragorn Elessar]

There is a 'most beautiful sentence' prize? Interesting...

[dafydd manton]

I dread to think what the ugliest sentence would be!

[Sapphire]

I did not know there existed a conquest like this. I guess it makes sense that there is: grabbing a sentence totally out of context and see if it can hold its own. :) It sounds like something "Onze Taal" could do, but I did not read it and I think I read the latest issue yesterday. But then again, they would be more interested in the grammar than the literary vallue :wink5:

I do not think it is crap. I see your problems with it though. I myself actually had to read it 3 times before I got it right :banghead: I am not sure what you want to say here:

After the 'end' of the sentence, the sentence still has to start and one has to read twice before one can actually see what the thing says.
I think the first part (before the comma) is saying what needs to be said: the bathroom had been quite functional for 15 years. The way it is said, makes me think the bathroom will be destroyed soon though :lol:.
I admit that I would not know anybody who could actually say a sentence like this and get away with it in real life. But maybe that's the reason why it is written down and a line from TV or radio?

"Geringe speling" sounds indeed a bit old fashioned, but it is consistent with the sentence itself: the whole of it is a bit old fashioned and pompious. I am not sure how I would update it. Rewrite it in 3 sentences might be a good start :p I tried to think of an other word for "gering", but "weinig speling" sounds just as constructed.
I do not see your problem with wand though. Do you think it should have been "muur"? To me "muur" is something very solid, while "wand" is something one might punch a hole in :) A "wand" is something you might find in a caravan. :nod: I do see it as a very obvious alliteration: a cliche construction. It screams "I am trying to be literate".

All in all, I see your problems with the sentence - but to say it did not deserve to win I would really need to read the ones it was up against. I doubt they went through everything ever written in Dutch in 2009... Could you provide a link?

[Madame X]

Yeah, it sounds quite literary, but not in the best sense of the word. I even had to look up what ‘lavabootje’ was supposed to mean. :D Seriously, the cramped-bathroom idea is nice and quirky ‘n all, and you get a bit of that feeling via the contorted structuring here (although, call me a stickler but I really think it should be split into 2 sentences)…but, yeah, the floridness, if you will, sounds sorta over the top and outdated in a totally weird and unnecessary way; a valiant effort, sure, but nothing to put on a pedestal, imo. Having said that, as Sapphire mentioned, it could still very well be the most beautiful sentence in Dutch language literature -which I’m assuming excludes everything but the novel- from ’09…honestly, what’s the competition? At any rate, if archaic language is the foremost criterion here, Thomas Rosenboom is probably a worthier champion in that respect. In fact, Zoete mond was published in ’09; haven’t read it yet but there’s bound to be something better in there! :idea:

[kiki1982]

Thanks for at least making me feel better.

By 'the end' of the sentence, I meant 'niet te na geproken'. I find that its object ('de knie van...') is so forced in its split nature here... You think it is finished and then the 'van'-object seems to be related to the 'knie'... A little odd. But it cannot be different as he wants to cram all that in one sentence. The sentence sounds better in German, as you can actually put all that 'van' in the middle and end with your verb. You cannot do that in Dutch...
I do see that alliteration, but I find it so obvious that, like you say, it screams 'I am literate, look at me.'

I'll have a look on the website to see what the other contestants were like... The former winners were not bad though. Particluarly Erwin Mortier. All the winners are a bit pompous, but they do not put so much strain on the reader as this one did...

As to the link, there is one here (http://www.kleineuil.nl/?pg=genomineerden), but there does not seem to be a definitive list... However, only in that list there were some better ones, I found. Particularly that one with the bees that changed into balloons...

[Sapphire]

By 'the end' of the sentence, I meant 'niet te na geproken'.
:eek: I totally missed that! I must have read the sentence 20 times, and every time I automatically changed the order into:
"Vijftien jaar had de badkamer met de caravanafmetingen probleemloos dienstgedaan, niet te na gesproken de sporadisch gekneusde knie van wie zich, zijn toilet makend of zich scherend voor het lavabootje, te bruusk omdraaide en aan den lijve moest ervaren hoe gering de speling was gebleven tussen rand en wand."
Not that that is any better :blush:

I liked the sentence by Mortier (from Godenslaap p.45), but I do not understand why there is not a comma in it. But then again: I have a tendency to use too much interpunction. I had to laugh at the one by Gerrit Komrij - a nice twist to the expected. And for some reason I like the crazy long sentence by Anton Brand (Liefdeknopen, p. 208).

:nonod: Seeing the competition, I do not get why they choose this one either. Maybe the jury likes this pompious style? In the end it is a matter of taste...
I do like the prize though :D

[kiki1982]

:lol: that's great! Studies actually have proven that we rather read what we want than what it says!

I do not get it either. There are so many great sentences (I like that first one too, you mentioned. :D It's like the mother does not mean anything...

And that crazy long one is also quite a great attempt. ;)

Still, the jury did not take any citicism seriously as I found out when I put a reaction of my initial surprise on their website. As it turned out, I was speaking to a member of the jury :redface:, but that one even did not take criticism seriously, only laughed and made out that 'this person surely does not know what he/she is talking about, so why should I take this seriously. After all I am a poet.'

tja...

[Madame X]

Dichters zijn luie schrijvers.

Ik zou rijk kunnen zijn, als ik een kut had en niet kon schrijven.

I like Wiener’s contributions best, albeit not for their beauty. :thumbsup:

[Kyriakos]

The rather distastefull theme of the sentence aside, this is just a normal sentence, not complicated or crafted in any particularly interesting manner.
:/

[Madame X]

As far as I see it, K., there are two possibilities: either the contest judges are as whimsical in their tastes as Kiki’s list would lead us to believe…or the Great and Indisputable Gods of Aesthetics to whom they seek counsel have a very Dutch sense of humour. :out:

[Propter W.]

Hogwash, that's what it is.