Short Story Club: The Overcoat by Gogol

[King Mob]

This first half of September we will be reading and discussing The Overcoat by Nikolai Gogol.

[Rores28]

Is there a good online source for this... I have it on *********.com but was wondering if there was a better translation or something...

[Sapphire]

I'm planning on reading this version {pdf} (http://www.horrormasters.com/Text/a0857.pdf), rather because it is in pdf than for any other reason :redface: I do not know what translation is best.

[Lost_Souls]

Funnily enough I just read this in a short story collection by Penguin Classics (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Russian-Short-Stories-Pushkin-Buida/dp/0140448462/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283437448&sr=8-1), but there it is called 'The Greatcoat'. A wonderful anthology BTW, and an invaluable introduction to Russian Literature as it covers the last two centuries and has detailed introductions to every story about the author and the themes of the stories.

I would be interested to know what poeple make of this strange story, especially the casually supernatural elements. One of the critics in the introduction mentions something like man's infinite search for significance in even everyday objects. Another meaning thrown out is 'sticking it to the man', or the fight for the common man against the system.

I think the question of perception and point of view is interesting; depending on how you look at something, it seems to acquire those qualities. A seemingly allegorical tale, but it probably has more than just one underlying meaning. I'll speak more when people have read the tale.

[gruntingslime]

Coincidentally I just bought a Gogol collection containing the story, so I'll take it as a sign. I usually don't discuss books in any intellectual fashion, I just read them and stare at people with beady rat-like eyes. Just tell me when and where.

[breathtest]

I've heard a lot about this writer in the past few weeks. He has been mentioned to me by a couple of people just randomly, and then i saw one of his books appear in a movie, which was pretty weird. And now he turns up here! It's a sign. I'm looking forward to discussing this one.

[Dark Muse]

I did not think I would be able to join in on this one because I have a pretty full reading schedule but I am doing pretty good with my other reading so it seems I have room to fit this one in.

Just started reading it this evening, and so far I am finding it quite a curious and somewhat amusing story and I am thus far enjoying it. Cannot wait to keep reading more.

[LMK]

Hmm...I'm having trouble staying focused on this one for some reason. To be fair it is probably my schedule, I'll try again and see what I can make of it and look back to see what you all make of it. Happy reading all!

[gruntingslime]

Are we supposed to write spoilers in this thread, or is it assumed that we all should be reading/have read the story?

First paragraph, very interesting line "Nowadays private citizens take any personal criticisms of themselves as an insult against society as a whole." Not only is it somewhat ironic, but it establishes a setting of nationalistic honor and I personally find a hint at the individual becoming so densely subjugated to the whole that nothing is personal, everything is a reflection of the state.

I've heard Gogol was a strong nationalist, so it hits me as sort of inconsistent that he would make a satirical lash at the state, but I found that a funny line worth mentioning. Anyone have any thoughts?

So far, it a lot of it seems like a poke at traditions. After that first paragraph—creating Akaky in such a ridiculous manner (his conception and naming I can hardly make heads or tails of), and making this ridiculous man a staple and so an integral result of the institution A Titular Councillor, the butt and mockery of people of whit (I'm paraphrasing)—I see it as such: a poke at traditions. (Further Example: naming the child by the calendar name days.)

[Rores28]

yea you can post spoilers in his thread.... just give fair warning

Once it hits the 15th though everyone shoulda read it so then spoilers, warning-free, are fair game... at least I think thats the interwebz etiquette.

[LMK]

Yes, but on the 15th we're on to a different story. Spoilers are fair game, in my opinion since this is a thread about the short story that was selected. Sorry, I feel like a slug on this one, nothing to contribute...so far.

[fetish]

^ Yeah. I'm very new to this forum (yet hope to contribute to these short stories from now on) but surely one cannot discuss the short story without reference to what happens? I'm not sure how it's been done before, but everyone should have read the story before engaging with the arguments in this thread ... Surely spoilers should be allowed? How else are we meant to discuss it?

Reading it now ... hope to post a comment soon :)

[LMK]

^ Yeah. I'm very new to this forum (yet hope to contribute to these short stories from now on) but surely one cannot discuss the short story without reference to what happens? I'm not sure how it's been done before, but everyone should have read the story before engaging with the arguments in this thread ... Surely spoilers should be allowed? How else are we meant to discuss it?

Reading it now ... hope to post a comment soon :)

That was what my 'Yes' above was for. Of course you can quote, give thoughts on the idea, plot, characters, resolution, what-have-you. This thread is for those wanting to discuss or view the discussion of the current short story.

It's a new 'club'; 1st 1/2 of a month is spent on the highest voted story and the 2nd 1/2 of the month is spent in another thread on the story that received the second highest votes (Araby).

So, yes, yes, spoilers are allowed.

[Kyriakos]

I have read this, many years ago, and a couple of times since :)
It is, in my view, one of the greatest short stories ever created, so i envy you that you are only now about to experience it ;)

[gruntingslime]

Holy Crow! I created a tidal wave with that spoilers question.

Akaky loves doing his work. The text specifically separates him from those who are just doing extra work because they are restless. I've sort of caught myself on the whole idea of nationalism (and its use as the image for society). It seems like people, unfortunates even, as Akaky seems to be, are sort of tossed around and forced to hang on to the bottom rung. Even if by some extraordinary feat they manage to find some joy in the life they are given, they will still be barraged by things like the elements and co-workers.

The one element that I'm leaving out from that whole idea is the fact that Akaky was given a chance to prove himself in other areas of work, but he could not handle the change and asked to stay where he was, which sort of rules out my whole slave to fate idea, and instead makes Akaky sort of the shaper of his own destiny and misfortunes.

I've read the whole story about a year ago but I'm rereading it now and going after particulars.

I do feel like I might be missing something in the above comments. Does anyone else have any ideas as to where Gogol was going with all of it?

Actually, I had nihilistic idea as I was beginning to read it that Gogol was just putting on a farce. And if anyone else suspects this, I would like to discuss Petrovich's tortoiseshell toe nail.

[Dark Muse]

In reading this story I cannot help but to see certain similarities between Gregor from the last story we read "The Metamorphosis" and Akaky, the main difference between them being the fact that while Gregor was discontent with his work and did it out of obligation to his family, Akaky is content in his job

But both of them appear to be rather pathetic figures whose whole lives are centered around their jobs, and though I have not yet finished with "The Overcoat" from what I have read it appears that Akaky has nothing going for him in his life beyond his work. No family, no social life, in fact the story specifically points out the fact that while others engaged in various entertainments after work, he does not attend to such things, but goes right to bed.

And in both the cases of Gregor and Akaky they seem to have rather "unrewarding" jobs, in the way in which while Akaky does enjoy what he does his work does not seem to offer much in the way of any sort of intellectual stimulation, and as pointed out above, when he was given the opportunity to advance in his work, he was happy to simply return back to his copying again.

In a way the very fact that he is content with his work, and the nature of his work being what it is, it almost makes him seem even more pitiful.

[gruntingslime]

In a way the very fact that he is content with his work, and the nature of his work being what it is, it almost makes him seem even more pitiful.

That was an interesting thought, but could you expand on it? I mean, why does the fact that he can find some contentment in what he does make him pitiful?

[Dark Muse]

That was an interesting thought, but could you expand on it? I mean, why does the fact that he can find some contentment in what he does make him pitiful?

It is hard to explain exactly, I think it has to do with the overall tone of the story, and the way in which his character is presented both in and out of work that even though he enjoys what he does the very fact that his work seems to be the defining thing in his life, and he has nothing else does have a certain pathecticness about it.

Part of it has to do with the nature of the work itself. The way in which his whole existence revolves around doing nothing but copying, something which does not require any real thought, but seems to be a rather drab and thoughtless task, and the way in which he is despised by everyone else.

I suppose in part it is the fact that though he is content with what he does there is the over all feeling that he lacks true passion in his work, but rather he simply fell into this sort of comfortable routine and accepts his position of being stuck in this rut. As if he has come to accept the way others see him and so he doesn't really make any effort in his life.

[King Mob]

Dark Muse has pointed out similarities with The Metamorphosis. For my part the story reminded me of The Process, with all that bureaucracy, as Akaky tries always to look for someone in a higher rank but what he only gets is death. Anyone else felt all these kafkian echoes (pre-echoes, as it is older)?

And it's funny that The Overcoat can be somewhat connected with the previous story we read in the club, and that Akaky works copying documents, same as the character in James Joyce's Counterparts, which is in Dubliners, same as Araby, the next story we'll read... I like looking for conspiracies...

[dfloyd]

Was it single or double breasted?

[Rores28]

Was it single or double breasted?
I lol'd.



Don't know how I felt about this one.... I'd like to hear from people who thought it was great why they thought so. Something didn't strike me right about the pacing of it. It seems like maybe even some parts could be chopped or lengthened. I can't quite put my finger on it but I felt like it just needed a little re-editing to tighten it up, but I can't exactly say how. Anyway...

Mo Money Mo Problems was sorta the first thing I thought, or maybe the difficulty in transitioning from a lower economic/social caste to a higher one. As some say A was content to begin with and it wasn't until he had the overcoat the tragedy befell him. No coat and he seems to have basically a wholly neurtal existence. He gets the coat and wins some fleeting and vapid adoration or acceptance from his higher caste acquaintances, but then he gets beat up, coat stolen, berated by an official, gets tragically sick, dies, and is made to a restless ghost.

That idea is also shown in the personage who has difficulty when around lower ranks or classes. And he is "new" to his position. But he himself seems to be semi-fraught with internal anxiety over his new position, as well as guilt for A, and of course he is accosted by A and his coat stolen. All again directly related to his having newly transitioned to a particular class/caste/rank.

[Dark Muse]

I thought it was quite interesting the way in which Akaky went from one extreme to the other with the making of his new coat. He started out dreading the idea of having to get a new one, and trying desperately to try and get the tailor to fix it even though it was hopelessly beyond repair.

But once he finally was forced to accept the fact that he needed a new one, he completely embraced the idea, and his life came to revolve around the idea of this new coat. I thought the extravagances he began to imagine up for it, like the martin fur (though in the end he did not get it) were a bit out of character from what had previously been seen about him.

[Rores28]

I thought it was quite interesting the way in which Akaky went from one extreme to the other with the making of his new coat. He started out dreading the idea of having to get a new one, and trying desperately to try and get the tailor to fix it even though it was hopelessly beyond repair.

But once he finally was forced to accept the fact that he needed a new one, he completely embraced the idea, and his life came to revolve around the idea of this new coat. I thought the extravagances he began to imagine up for it, like the martin fur (though in the end he did not get it) were a bit out of character from what had previously been seen about him.

I actually found this to be an incredibly realistic portrayal, I myself have done the same thing and I've seen my girlfriend and friends do it as well. They need a new computer say but just want a bare bones one, then they realize the bare bones isn't really gonna do what they need and so they start fantasizing about what else there is and start getting bigger ideas.... its like they've been given a free pass and no longer have to feel guilty about spending more money because the "have" to spend more and then why not just a little more... etc...

The Pearl by Steinbeck I think portrays this nicely as well.

[bouquin]

I suppose in part it is the fact that though he is content with what he does there is the over all feeling that he lacks true passion in his work, but rather he simply fell into this sort of comfortable routine and accepts his position of being stuck in this rut. As if he has come to accept the way others see him and so he doesn't really make any effort in his life.



I would say that Akakiy is more than just content with his job; he loves his work, he is passionate about it. He very often takes it home with him and almost never makes mistakes with his copying. We also learn that outside his job nothing else matters and that his dedication to his task goes beyond zeal; rather, it is love that he feels for it.




____________________
Currently reading: A Delicate Balance (Edward Albee)

[Dark Muse]

I would say that Akakiy is more than just content with his job; he loves his work, he is passionate about it. He very often takes it home with him and almost never makes mistakes with his copying. We also learn that outside his job nothing else matters and that his dedication to his task goes beyond zeal; rather, it is love that he feels for it.

I suppose it is the very fact that he has nothing his life but his job, that makes him seem incapable of truly feeling passionate about anything. Most people, even those that love the work they do, still have a life outside of that work.

But the way in which he lives in such a drab way, and his whole existence revolves around his work, and the nature of just what the work is, just makes him seem quite ridiculous and pathetic.

[Virgil]

I have to apologize. This was my selection and I ultimately had to go away and couldn’t push the discussion. I don’t know if anyone is open to continue discussing it, but I am.

This is a great short story for me, perfectly done in my opinion. The spine of the story is simple: a man needs a new overcoat, can’t afford one, struggles to get the money together, does, has a beautiful coat made, has a triumphant party in his honor, and on the night of the party he is accosted and the coat is stolen, and he ultimately dies from the cold. But notice how Gogol adds flesh to the story spine. Akaky is not just any man, but a pitiful geek, a schlemiel who seems to have things fall on him. Gogol spends so much time and space fleshing out the character and situation before the story spine even gets underway. His name Akaky Akakievich Bashmachkin I’m told has the meaning of sh*t on the shoes. He works in a bureaucracy, the unambitious job of a copier. But he’s happy and doesn’t want much in life. He’s pitiful in the way the other guys pick and tease him and I think in his reaction is the central core of the story:


But not one word of response came from Akaky Akakievich, as if no one was there; it did not even affect the work he did: amidst all this pestering, he made not a single error in his copy. Only when the joke was really unbearable, when they jostled his arm, interfering with what he was doing, would he say, “Let me be. Why do you offend me?” And there was something strange in the words and in the voice in which they were uttered. Something sounded in it so conducive to pity that one recently appointed young man who, following the example of the others, had first allowed himself to make fun of him, suddenly stopped as if transfixed, and from then on everything seemed changed before him and acquired a different look. Some unnatural power pushed him away from his comrades, whose acquaintance he had made thinking them decent, well-mannered men. And long afterwards, in moments of the greatest merriment, there would rise before him the figure of the little clerk with the balding brow, uttering his penetrating words: “Let me be. Why do you offend me?”—and in these penetrating words rang other words: “I am your brother.” And the poor young man would bury his face in his hands, and many a time in his life he shuddered to see how much inhumanity there is in man, how much savage coarseness is concealed in refined, cultivated manners, and God! even in a man the world regards as noble and honorable. (from the Pevear and Volokhonsky translation)

The “I am your brother” line adds the religious overtone to the theme, a sort of moral indictment to the St, Petersburg society. There are three motifs that come together to undermine Akaky: the Russian bureaucracy, the Russian cold, and the St. Petersburg streets, from which the ruffians beat and rob him. These motifs come up in the story over and over again.

[Rores28]

What do you make of those three motifs?

Russia and St. P are particularly inhospitable places that repeatedly beat men down... just beat unambitious men down?

Is the story a plea for change or just a somewhat depressing account?

Does it lambaste materialism?

As I said above my reaction to the story (and I know nothing about Gogol) was one of the difficulty/impossibility of transitions in St. P. I think your three motifs actually can even support that idea of stasis. Overtly the bureaucracy is of course interested in keeping "folks" down to further solidify their own position. The rough streets too could be indicative of the ways one has to go in order to make a transition (and how terribly wrong it goes when you try to go to the nice part of town and back home), and of course the cold and overcoat.... coat symbolizing stasis or paralysis and the coat being the object that can overcome that. It overcomes cold... allows one to walk in the street, and makes you blend / become acceptable to the bureaucracy

[Virgil]

What do you make of those three motifs?


I think they characterize the time and place of 19th century St. Petersburg.


Russia and St. P are particularly inhospitable places that repeatedly beat men down... just beat unambitious men down?
Well, it's a story about one man. That sort of generalization is a stretch too far for a short story.


Is the story a plea for change or just a somewhat depressing account?
It's a story.


Does it lambaste materialism?
I don't find the economic theme very strong in the story. I think Gogol is mostly after man's poor treatment of man as the theme. The more i read it, the more I see the Christian overtones to it.


As I said above my reaction to the story (and I know nothing about Gogol) was one of the difficulty/impossibility of transitions in St. P. I think your three motifs actually can even support that idea of stasis. Overtly the bureaucracy is of course interested in keeping "folks" down to further solidify their own position. The rough streets too could be indicative of the ways one has to go in order to make a transition (and how terribly wrong it goes when you try to go to the nice part of town and back home), and of course the cold and overcoat.... coat symbolizing stasis or paralysis and the coat being the object that can overcome that. It overcomes cold... allows one to walk in the street, and makes you blend / become acceptable to the bureaucracy
Stasis? I have no idea what you're referring to.

[Rores28]

Stasis.... just the idea that its difficult or impossible to overcome one's lot in life, or at least specifically for the main character. He can't come out of his middle class existence, socially, vocationally, financially... etc...

[Virgil]

Stasis.... just the idea that its difficult or impossible to overcome one's lot in life, or at least specifically for the main character. He can't come out of his middle class existence, socially, vocationally, financially... etc...

I guess so. It's the character who has things dumped on him. I think the author is mostly after compassion, not social commentary. The other characters in the office aren't robbed and taken advanatge of.

[Rores28]

I guess so. It's the character who has things dumped on him. I think the author is mostly after compassion, not social commentary. The other characters in the office aren't robbed and taken advanatge of.

True...

So what did people think of the story?

I thought it was well written, but the plot didn't blow me away. It was fairly predictable, and the supernatural element felt really awkward for me. I thought the main character was nicely developed and even some of the side characters... however upon finishing I was just sorta left saying... ok that was pretty good.

You may be right about the author being after compassion, but if that was true I think the story may have been better ended immediately after his overcoat was stolen. The text following that seems to speak of social commentary to me... but maybe I just wanted to like this story more than I did and the social commentary angle is more appealing to me :p