I'm looking for a certain kind of book...

[Desolation]

Alright, I don't really know exactly how to explain what I'm looking for...I want something with a very complex plot, maybe some philosophy and/or psychology thrown in, and written in wild, angry prose. Kind of like Dostoevsky by way of Iggy Pop, or what it might have looked like had Friedrich Nietzsche written a novel, or if Chuck Palahniuk was more talented.

Any thoughts? It seems like a lot of my most cherished authors choose between intricate plotlines and loud, gritty prose. Henry Miller and Louis Celine are angry, but they don't really write "stories". Kafka and Tolstoy write great stories, but the prose is really subdued.

[stlukesguild]

Jean Genet- Our Lady of the Flowers?

[Desolation]

Aw, I forgot all about Genet. It's been a while since I read him.

I actually had Our Lady of the Flowers (though I didn't read it), but I traded it for a Jimi Hendrix record. I'll have to look up another copy.

[laymonite]

Philip Roth's Portnoy's Complaint comes to mind. Not sure if the plot is complex enough for what you're seeking--it is more thematic with a dash of psychoanalytic perspective--but it has the chiding tone!

[Taliesin]

Thomas Pynchon in general?

[Desolation]

I thought that Pynchon might fit the bill. I've had Gravity's Rainbow sitting on my shelf for over a year, and it has been a constant enigma to me. I'd like to read it, but I can't figure out what kind of book it is.

[stlukesguild]

You might look into Pierre Klossowski, brother of the painter Balthus, secretary to Andre Gide. He wrote major texts on Nietzsche and the Marquis de Sade, and published with Georges Battaille. His novel Baphomet can be found in English. Georges Battaille's Story of the Eye might be another suggestion. neither do much for me any more. Like de Sade I find them repetitive and their wallowing in gratuitous sex and violence simply bores me... but they surely fit your demands.

[Desolation]

Story of the Eye was the most f*cked up book that I've ever read. I literally threw it out the window after I got about half way through it. From what I've been told, I'm just not insightful enough to "get" what Batailles was trying to do with that amazing piece of "literature"...And I'm very much ok with that.

I'll look into The Baphomet...So long as it's nothing like Batailles' work.

[Emil Miller]

I actually had Our Lady of the Flowers (though I didn't read it), but I traded it for a Jimi Hendrix record. I'll have to look up another copy.

In the words of the immortal Anthony Gryptpipe-Thynne, " You silly twisted boy, you."

[laymonite]

Hmmmm...you've sparked my curiosity in Story of the Eye. Worth it? The most bothersome book I've read to-date is Jack Ketchum's The Girl Next Door. Those French though! I've seen some really f---ed up French movies!

[The Comedian]

Have you read any Preacher comics by Ennis/Dillon? You might like them.

[Desolation]

Hmmmm...you've sparked my curiosity in Story of the Eye. Worth it? The most bothersome book I've read to-date is Jack Ketchum's The Girl Next Door. Those French though! I've seen some really f---ed up French movies!
Well, how would you imagine that you'd feel about an "erotic/philosophical novel" with a plethora of very graphic sex scenes that involve a woman smashing eggs in her anus far more often than any actual penetration? There's also urine, lots and lots of urine.

[stlukesguild]

Next to the Marquis de Sade... who I wouldn't recommend to anyone... and perhaps Mein Kampf... I agree that The Story of the Eye was perhaps the most twisted book I ever read. I usually like "twisted" to a degree... but this is something else altogether. The French after the war had some serious issues.:goof:

[OrphanPip]

I've never read The Story of the Eye, but I have read a short story by Bataille called something along the lines of "The Marquesse ****s on the Count," I can't quite remember which noble titles were involved. Anyway, it's basically an episodic depiction of a couple engaging in increasingly fetishistic sexual practices. I came across it in an anthology of literary erotica.

One thing about Bataille is that he briefly studied to be a Catholic priest and worked as a librarian, just saying.

[laymonite]

Desolation - I like erotic/philosophy in the prose vein of Henry Miller and Foucault, but, honestly, my experience stops along those borders. Not sure if I'm up for literary golden showers!

stlukesguild - Why would you not recommend Marquis de Sade to anyone? I've only encoountered snippets of his work that I believe Norman Mailer included in The Prisoner of Sex.

[Desolation]

Oh thanks, Pip, now I'm never going to be able to trust a Catholic priest or a creepy librarian again.

[OrphanPip]

Desolation - I like erotic/philosophy in the prose vein of Henry Miller and Foucault, but, honestly, my experience stops along those borders. Not sure if I'm up for literary golden showers!

stlukesguild - Why would you not recommend Marquis de Sade to anyone? I've only encoountered snippets of his work that I believe Norman Mailer included in The Prisoner of Sex.

There's an Italian erotic horror film called Salò o le 120 giornate di Sodoma that is based on de Sade's 120 days of Sodom, it's much toned down from the Sade original with the pedophilia and incest removed, but the film still managed to be banned in several countries. Frankly, I thought the film was rather tame.

The same director made an erotic film adaption of some of the Canterbury Tales, I haven't been able to find it though.

Edit: And Desolation, you're welcome.

[laymonite]

There's an Italian erotic horror film called Salò o le 120 giornate di Sodoma that is based on de Sade's 120 days of Sodom, it's much toned down from the Sade original with the pedophilia and incest removed, but the film still managed to be banned in several countries. Frankly, I thought the film was rather tame.

The same director made an erotic film adaption of some of the Canterbury Tales, I haven't been able to find it though.

Edit: And Desolation, you're welcome.
Ah, yes, I see it available on Netflix. Director Pier Paolo Pasolini, right? I'll read the book first though. Thanks!

[Desolation]

Desolation - I like erotic/philosophy in the prose vein of Henry Miller and Foucault, but, honestly, my experience stops along those borders. Not sure if I'm up for literary golden showers!

Then it looks like we're on the same page. I love Henry Miller (whose eroticism, I think, is way over-exaggerated), but Batailles is a different monster entirely. There are eggs and other food items, there are rape orgies, there's glass, there's milk, the only actual act of consensual penetration takes place beside a dead body, and, yes, there are golden showers every few pages. The whole book is an endurance test.

[iamnobody]

Kurt Vonnegut. Cat's Cradle, Breakfast of Champions, Slaughterhouse Five.

[laymonite]

Then it looks like we're on the same page. I love Henry Miller (whose eroticism, I think, is way over-exaggerated), but Batailles is a different monster entirely. There are eggs and other food items, there are rape orgies, there's glass, there's milk, the only actual act of consensual penetration takes place beside a dead body, and, yes, there are golden showers every few pages. The whole book is an endurance test.
I agree that Miller's eroticism is stretched further than it actually goes. But, I do enjoy the sprawling digressions that his encounters incite!

I actually just found a copy of The Story of the Eye online: http://supervert.com/elibrary/georges_bataille. I'll get to it sometime, and when I do, it sounds like I'll need to follow it with something lighthearted!

[spookymulder93]

A lot of these books sound like their my cup of tea, but from what you guys say it might not be tea in that cup.

[Alexander III]

Laymonite, I would surely recommend Marquis De Sade, not because he was some literary genius of the likes of Hugo, but because his books give insight into one of the most peculiar minds which there has ever been.

I mean the term sadism comes from his name, thats pretty impressive.

I would recommend Justine, his works also contain some top notch philosophy which mingles quite well with the exploration of human depravity.

[Mariamosis]

I am not sure if this fits the bill, but I would recommend Knut Hamsun. Hamsun was a Norwegian author and Nobel prize winner for his book "Growth of the Soil" or "Markens Grøde". His writing has been compared to Dostoevsky and Nietzsche because of its use of internal monologues.

I just finished his book "Hunger" which was excellent and definitely made me recall some of the monologues from "Crime and Punishment".

[mal4mac]

Blood Meridian - Cormac McCarthy
Macbeth

[Scheherazade]

Pollyanna is out of question, I guess...

[dfw]

im on my ballin each nd erry day

[ennison]

Wild and angry and complex don't often go together - not in life nor in literature. What about your Americans like Purdy and Selby? Maybe that's what you're after or maybe it's back to to the surreal comedy of Alice that you want.

[AuntShecky]

If you're looking for a novelist who includes philosophy, psychology, history and all manner of thought in his works, you can't go wrong with Saul Bellow. Same with Roth,Vonnegut, Pynchon (as previous posters have mentioned.)

A couple years ago on a cable station that allowed so-called "mature" material I saw Requiem for a Dream. Some of the scenes were so disturbing that occasionally haunt me to this day, and the story itself broke my heart. I believe the original author was Selby.

Kansas is a long way from Brooklyn but that's the origin and setting for the novels of Earl B. Thompson. Spouse and I read A Garden of Sand and Tattoo back in the late seventies. Really powerful stuff, but not for the faint of heart.

Here's a useful article on Thompson I just found:
http://www.pemmicanpress.com/articles/earl-thompson-tom-page.html

[Gregory Samsa]

Philip K Dick and Julio Cortázar.

[ralfyman]

As mentioned earlier, definitely Portnoy's Complaint.