Thoughts on Brett Easton Ellis and/or Jonathan Franzen?

[JZD]

I don't really have many living authors I like. Cormac McCarthy is about it. I'll dabble in some Palahnuk when I'm in a Palahnuk-type mood, but there's really no one I read consistently. I like existentialist fiction, absurdist fiction, satirical fiction... Dostoevsky, Camus, Kafka, Voltaire, Swift, Twain are some of my favorite authors.

Ellis... author of American Psycho and other books. He looks intriguing to me. Anyone a big fan or a big hater of his work? Is his work comparable to that of any classic author?

Franzen, seems to be the trendy American novelist of the moment. On the cover of Time this week. His new release is Freedom and it's already getting rave reviews, supposedly about the life of the suburban American family in the 21st century. His books are fairly long so I don't wanna jump in unless I think it will be a good read.

Just looking to get some opinions on these two. Thanks.

[Rores28]

You may want to try David Foster Wallace.... Some of my favorite stories are, The Stranger, Notes from Underground, and Brothers Karamazov. And I like what I've read of Kafka so far as well. DFW is I think good in the same way as Dostoevsky at getting inside people's heads and showing the endless vacillations, rationalizations, and in general the chaos of trying to ascertain meaning, via rationality and the analytic mind.

I am basing this primarily on his short story collection Oblivion, I've only dabbled in his other works. He manages to be cryptic and labyrinthine while at the same time being completely readable and enjoyable.

Also he isn't living, but I assume you meant contemporary.

Also have you read Delillo or Pynchon?

[Patrick_Bateman]

American Psycho

you have to read it

it's a must

[Desolation]

I just read Less Than Zero, and I was not really blown away by it. I got what he was trying to do, but I didn't really find myself caring about the characters even enough to be disturbed or disgusted by them.

[Rores28]

In his defense "Less than Zero" was his first novel. I read it quite some time ago and remember having somewhat similar feelings... it was a little blah, but I did like the shocking parts.

Also I get this feeling like Ellis almost doesn't really want you to empathize with his characters, he wants you to feel the same sorta of pervasive ennui in the novel as they do... so then I guess you are empathizing with them.... :(

I don't know though, I've just read Less than Zero and part of Glamorama, and of course have seen the movies American Psycho and Rules of Attraction, which are two of my favorite movies incidentally.

[JZD]

Interesting. I'll probably skip Less than Zero. I'm def going to read American Psycho tho.

I do want to stay with intelligent literature and stay away from all these modern thriller-type writers. I know those books are enjoyable but I don't think they'll challenge me to think and give me what I want out of a book.

Regarding Delillo and Pynchon, never read either... worth checking out?

[spookymulder93]

There's one chapter in American Psycho where he just goes on and on describing the different things in his apartment and his music collection.

Skip that chapter.

[Desolation]

Is there anything good in his collection?

[spookymulder93]

If I remember correctly he was a big Whitney Houston fan.

[Desolation]

I know from the movie that he's also quite partial to Phil Collins and Huey Lewis & the News...So, no, not the best taste in music.

I guess we can't expect all our serial killers to have great taste like Charlie Manson, especially when they're a caricature of 1980's American culture.

[.Kafka]

I wouldn't be going too far as to say Less than Zero is the worst book I have ever read.

[Patrick_Bateman]

I wouldn't be going too far as to say Less than Zero is the worst book I have ever read.

And I would agree

but he was only 19 and it was his first novel

[laymonite]

Read American Psycho and don't skip a single page. Also, remember to keep it in the historical context of the materialism of the American 1980s milieu. Have fun!

As for DeLillo and Pynchon: DeLillo's short fiction is better than his novels, in my opinion. And Pynchon is a must, especially Gravity's Rainbow, though The Crying of Lot 49 is more accessible. Actually, it's probably best to start with his short story "Entropy." A lot of postmodern American writers owe a lot to Pynchon.

[Rores28]

Interesting. I'll probably skip Less than Zero. I'm def going to read American Psycho tho.

I do want to stay with intelligent literature and stay away from all these modern thriller-type writers. I know those books are enjoyable but I don't think they'll challenge me to think and give me what I want out of a book.

Regarding Delillo and Pynchon, never read either... worth checking out?

I have just started reading my first Pynchon (The Crying of Lot 49) and can't say that I really care for it too much. I mentioned those two authors as other contemporary post-modern writers who are generally held in higher critical regard than Ellis. But so far for me DFW blows Pynchon out of the water.

There is something I can't quite put my finger on that I don't like about Pynchon's writing.

[laymonite]

Rores28 - It could be that, as most people note, Pynchon's writing is nearly as elusive as the writer himself! Seriously though, Pynchon was tough to get into for me--took a few tries. It's almost one of those authors that writes with criticism in mind.

[Scheherazade]

Read American Psycho and don't skip a single page. Also, remember to keep it in the historical context of the materialism of the American 1980s milieu. Have fun!I have been wanting to read this one for so many years (it is one of the BBC's Big Reads) but I am worried that it won't live up to the movie, which I enjoyed so much.

[laymonite]

If it's any consolation, I saw the movie well before reading the book and still enjoyed it. You get a horde of details the movie leaves out (of course). I agree, though, Christian Bale owned that role!

[.Kafka]

And I would agree

but he was only 19 and it was his first novel

That is inexcusable. Pablo Neruda, a Nobel Prize winner in Literature, wrote some of his finest, most natural and keen poems when he was only 19. Gabriel Garcia Marquez, another winner, was at such an age, exploring Kafka's oeuvre in relation to the representation of being in time. That said, I too am only 19, and even though in no frame do I consider myself a writer, I would dare not try to write something like Less than Zero, and then to publish it! The audacity! It is absolutely sequestered from the realm of literature and the sheer thought that it is studied in universities, is nothing short of an abomination and source of constant pain; it grieves me so how such works enter the canon, defaming the very nobility of literature. The style is so sparse it makes my bones ache. The absolute lack of literary language (the void is too vast to contain even simple metaphors and symbols) the weak, wobbly structure, all drive me to inkwells and to splashing color onto the empty pages. The torture I endured reading that book. I need a hug or a bonfire. The book is not even worth the countless trees that have been cut down and killed for it.

[Rores28]

So what was your favorite part?


That is inexcusable. Pablo Neruda, a Nobel Prize winner in Literature, wrote some of his finest, most natural and keen poems when he was only 19. Gabriel Garcia Marquez, another winner, was at such an age, exploring Kafka's oeuvre in relation to the representation of being in time. That said, I too am only 19, and even though in no frame do I consider myself a writer, I would dare not try to write something like Less than Zero, and then to publish it! The audacity! It is absolutely sequestered from the realm of literature and the sheer thought that it is studied in universities, is nothing short of an abomination and source of constant pain; it grieves me so how such works enter the canon, defaming the very nobility of literature. The style is so sparse it makes my bones ache. The absolute lack of literary language (the void is too vast to contain even simple metaphors and symbols) the weak, wobbly structure, all drive me to inkwells and to splashing color onto the empty pages. The torture I endured reading that book. I need a hug or a bonfire. The book is not even worth the countless trees that have been cut down and killed for it.

[.Kafka]

So what was your favorite part?

When I finished it and emerged unscathed by the atrocity, what else.

[Patrick_Bateman]

That is inexcusable. Pablo Neruda, a Nobel Prize winner in Literature, wrote some of his finest, most natural and keen poems when he was only 19. Gabriel Garcia Marquez, another winner, was at such an age, exploring Kafka's oeuvre in relation to the representation of being in time. That said, I too am only 19, and even though in no frame do I consider myself a writer, I would dare not try to write something like Less than Zero, and then to publish it! The audacity! It is absolutely sequestered from the realm of literature and the sheer thought that it is studied in universities, is nothing short of an abomination and source of constant pain; it grieves me so how such works enter the canon, defaming the very nobility of literature. The style is so sparse it makes my bones ache. The absolute lack of literary language (the void is too vast to contain even simple metaphors and symbols) the weak, wobbly structure, all drive me to inkwells and to splashing color onto the empty pages. The torture I endured reading that book. I need a hug or a bonfire. The book is not even worth the countless trees that have been cut down and killed for it.


Here's a thought

People are different

[.Kafka]

Here's a thought

People are different

Are you serious? But I assure you there are standards.

[JuniperWoolf]

Ellis is really good at turning me on then grossing me out within the span of ten pages or so. The experience is very unsettling.

[Jay on blues]

That is inexcusable. Pablo Neruda, a Nobel Prize winner in Literature, wrote some of his finest, most natural and keen poems when he was only 19. Gabriel Garcia Marquez, another winner, was at such an age, exploring Kafka's oeuvre in relation to the representation of being in time. That said, I too am only 19, and even though in no frame do I consider myself a writer, I would dare not try to write something like Less than Zero, and then to publish it! The audacity! It is absolutely sequestered from the realm of literature and the sheer thought that it is studied in universities, is nothing short of an abomination and source of constant pain; it grieves me so how such works enter the canon, defaming the very nobility of literature. The style is so sparse it makes my bones ache. The absolute lack of literary language (the void is too vast to contain even simple metaphors and symbols) the weak, wobbly structure, all drive me to inkwells and to splashing color onto the empty pages. The torture I endured reading that book. I need a hug or a bonfire. The book is not even worth the countless trees that have been cut down and killed for it.

...yikes

[spookymulder93]

That is inexcusable. Pablo Neruda, a Nobel Prize winner in Literature, wrote some of his finest, most natural and keen poems when he was only 19. Gabriel Garcia Marquez, another winner, was at such an age, exploring Kafka's oeuvre in relation to the representation of being in time. That said, I too am only 19, and even though in no frame do I consider myself a writer, I would dare not try to write something like Less than Zero, and then to publish it! The audacity! It is absolutely sequestered from the realm of literature and the sheer thought that it is studied in universities, is nothing short of an abomination and source of constant pain; it grieves me so how such works enter the canon, defaming the very nobility of literature. The style is so sparse it makes my bones ache. The absolute lack of literary language (the void is too vast to contain even simple metaphors and symbols) the weak, wobbly structure, all drive me to inkwells and to splashing color onto the empty pages. The torture I endured reading that book. I need a hug or a bonfire. The book is not even worth the countless trees that have been cut down and killed for it.
This makes me want to read the book.

[.Kafka]

This makes me want to read the book.

That was precisely my intention. Or is it? It is true that even though multinational tobacco companies are compelled to put 'Smoking Kills' warning stickers on their cigarette packs, people still smoke. Human nature. But please do not go ahead and start smoking now.

[rufustfirefly]

I read the Wall St. Jnl review of the new Franzen novel. Far from a rave. I know you can't always trust reviews... but it was pretty brutal. Any one else catch it in Friday's journal ?

[mal4mac]

I just read "The Corrections" by Franzen. It sort of passed the time, at least I finished it. Not a patch on, say, the few novels of Roth I've read, or "Blood Meridian", and they aren't a patch on Dickens, Tolstoy,... so Franzen is now so far down my list I doubt I'll read anything by him again.

[JZD]

I read the Wall St. Jnl review of the new Franzen novel. Far from a rave. I know you can't always trust reviews... but it was pretty brutal. Any one else catch it in Friday's journal ?

Missed that review but Franzen is on the cover of Time this week and Time is pretty much fawning over the new novel.