Studying Literature in UK

[WICKES]

I have a Canadian friend who wants to study literature in the UK. She was asking me about the Universities. What do you think? I told her that you could probably divide them roughly into 3 types: the Good, the OK and the not so good. There are 122 Universities in the UK:

The Good: places like Warwick, Durham, Nottingham, York, Southampton, Sheffield, Leeds, UCL, LSE, Bristol (ranked 1st-20th or 30th)

The OK: places like Kent, Essex, Surrey, Brunel, Sussex etc (ranked 30th- 50th, built as Universities in the 1960s- need B's in your A-Levels)

The Not So Good: Those ranked below 50th in the league tables which used to be Polytechnics and which you can get into with C's and D's

Oxford and Cambridge are in a league of their own

[Lokasenna]

Well, as an alumnus of Leeds, and current student at Durham, I can vouch for both of those!

To be fair, you really need to look by department rather than by the university as a whole - for example, can you even do English Literature at the LSE? I'd be surprised... Nor have I ever heard much output from Southampton...

You also have to then assess each individual department; for example, Warwick is excellent if you want to study modern literature. For contemporary stuff, they're one of the best in country, on a par with Oxford and easily outstripping Cambridge. If, however, your friend is of a medieval persuasion, then they would rapidly find that Warwick has a very limited selection of medieval literature modules, coupled with a limited staff and a limited library.

Also, if they're thinking of going abroad, then part of the decision should be based on location. For example, St. Andrews is an excellent university for English Literature, but it is miles from anywhere - you're a solid 20 minute drive from the nearest train station, and then well over an hour to Edinburgh, the nearest city. If you love isolation and wildness (and lots of drinking), it's the perfect place, but if want the convenience of a city then it really isn't.

Then you have Oxford, Cambridge and my own Durham, which are collegiate universities, which means that they offer a very different experience to any other university, which can be a good or bad thing.

Hope that helps - if your friend has any particular questions about Leeds or Durham, feel free to PM me if I can be of help!

[WICKES]

You also have to then assess each individual department; for example, Warwick is excellent if you want to study modern literature. For contemporary stuff, they're one of the best in country, on a par with Oxford and easily outstripping Cambridge. If, however, your friend is of a medieval persuasion, then they would rapidly find that Warwick has a very limited selection of medieval literature modules, coupled with a limited staff and a limited library.!

Yes, it's true. I think she just wants to study modern literature. I'm doing an MA at Essex in 'Myth, Literature and the Unconscious' as it's the only University which offers an MA combining Jung/ depth psychology, mythology and modern literature. I would have preferred to have gone somewhere higher up the league table (I think Essex is about 45th out of 122) like East Anglia, but they just don't do such a course. Essex is ok- I mean it was at least built as a University rather than a Polytechnic and it does have reasonably high entrance standards (BBB or ABC), but still, it ain't Leeds or Durham!

[Seasider]

As a Durham Old student in the English Honours School...many years ago though, I would recommend the city, the countryside, the wonderful Cathedral, the collegiate system. As far as a modern course goes I have no idea but it has a good reputation.

[Lokasenna]

I'm doing an MA at Essex in 'Myth, Literature and the Unconscious' as it's the only University which offers an MA combining Jung/ depth psychology, mythology and modern literature.

Now that sounds like a VERY interesting MA... presumably that's a taught MA? Old Norse literature is my area of specialty, and Jung has always been a firm favourite - I sometimes get a bit carried away slapping the label of 'archetype' on things...

[kelby_lake]

Yes, it's true. I think she just wants to study modern literature.

Birmingham only teach English Literature (as in, anything written in the British Isles, in English). Kent do English and American Literature and you can do lots of modern stuff. Warwick are into 'Renaissance literature', according to their prospectus. York have some modules where you can study foreign literature in its original language.

Durham's supposed to be the best for English- it's one of the few universities that beats Oxford and Cambridge in a subject.

Oh, and modules called things like Gender Studies are a euphemism for feminism. A professor actually admitted that to me.

[Lokasenna]

Durham's supposed to be the best for English- it's one of the few universities that beats Oxford and Cambridge in a subject.


In the interests of fairness, we have actually been knocked off our pedestal this year by Oxford, though I think that'll be a temporary thing. For six consecutive years before that, we were at the top.

Really, once you get to the high end you can't go wrong with anywhere, there's so little in it between them.

[OrphanPip]

Oh, and modules called things like Gender Studies are a euphemism for feminism. A professor actually admitted that to me.

It tends to include overlap with queer studies, and issues of masculine representation as well, though feminism is a large part of its base. That's my understanding of gender studies at least, although my only experience with it is through a friend.

[LitNetIsGreat]

I would also recommend Sheffield for the university and location. It's true that I'm not a part of the main university, being a humble part-timer (though I can use all the facilities), but I would recommend it nevertheless. Durham sounds like the first choice though, behind the big two. I mean Durham may be rated higher but an Oxford or Cambridge on the CV never did anybody any harm!

[Lokasenna]

Durham sounds like the first choice though, behind the big two. I mean Durham may be rated higher but an Oxford or Cambridge on the CV never did anybody any harm!

We're trying to popularise the term 'Doxbridge' - but it really isn't catching on...

Sheffield is very good though. I have a couple of friends who went there, including one in the English department, and she was very satisfied.

[WICKES]

Now that sounds like a VERY interesting MA... presumably that's a taught MA? Old Norse literature is my area of specialty, and Jung has always been a firm favourite - I sometimes get a bit carried away slapping the label of 'archetype' on things...

VERY interesting. I wanted to do something combining Psychoanalysis/ Freud/ Jung/ mythology etc and literature. Essex is the only University that offers such an MA (taught) and seems to be the centre of Jungian study (at an academic level). Got such a pile of fascinating stuff to work through here beside me: Jung's Answer to Job, Campbells' Hero With A Thousand Faces, an essay by Auden on the Greeks, an essay by Foucault on Nietzsche, Plato's Phaedo, the Odyssey, Woolf's To The Lighthouse, Edinger's Ego and Archetype...

I do buy into the consoling, healing power of myth. Looking back, they should have read us Greek mythology every day at school. Here is a great quote from Campbell:

"Dream is personalized myth; myth, depersonalized dream"

Just wish I could have done it at a better University- maybe East Anglia or Sussex. Still, that's being petty. Essex is ok.

[Genocide]

The first thing I would look for if your friend plans on going BACK to Canada after getting a degree would be the accreditation. If your friend wants to be able to chose which country they live and work in they should probably look at schools that are duel-accredited. That's where I started.

[kelby_lake]

Just got accepted by Kent to do English and Drama :D

[dafydd manton]

Just got accepted by Kent to do English and Drama :D

Brilliant! Well done!! :biggrin5:

[Alexander III]

I personally am going to Royal Holloway next year, any one an alumni of the place ?

[kelby_lake]

I personally am going to Royal Holloway next year, any one an alumni of the place ?

I know someone who's going there next year. I think they got in...

[WICKES]

The first thing I would look for if your friend plans on going BACK to Canada after getting a degree would be the accreditation. If your friend wants to be able to chose which country they live and work in they should probably look at schools that are duel-accredited. That's where I started.

Problem is I don't really know how to compare A-Level requirements with whatever the Canadian equivalent is. I mean Durham or Bristol would probably ask for AAB for a BA in Literature, wheras you can get into a Polytechnic with a couple of D's. I did Literature at Essex, and they ask for BBB- which is roughly the same as Kent, East Anglia, Surrey etc.

I suppose you could broadly categorise the 122 UK Universities as Good, OK and Not So Good

Good: Durham, Bristol, Nottingham, Leeds (the Uni's that always appear in the top 20 or so out of the 122. You need A's to get in)

OK: Kent, Sussex, East Anglia, Essex, Surrey, Goldsmiths, Hull (the Uni's that usually rank between 30th and 50th and ask for ABC or BBB etc. Nothing special, but proper Universities)

Not So Good: the ex Polytechnics. Lower entrance standards- often just a C and a D. Consistently ranked below 50th in the league tables.

[OrphanPip]

Generally the larger universities contain information for applicants from foreign countries. Canada does have a standardized system of education, not even the SAT like the USA. Different provinces will operate differently, although there are IB schools in Canada. Standards for our universities tend to vary within by program as well, my alma mater had very high standards for the sciences, but its arts department was kind of a bastard step child that anyone could get into in.

This person should also look into applying to the larger universities in Canada, which will in all likelihood have exchange programs with universities in the UK. Doing a year long exchange is much cheaper than actually studying abroad as a direct applicant to a foreign university.

A quick look at Durham's website says they accept foreign qualifications, but to send an email to ask a question. Usually standards for foreign students tend to be a little higher than for local students.

[kelby_lake]

Problem is I don't really know how to compare A-Level requirements with whatever the Canadian equivalent is. I mean Durham or Bristol would probably ask for AAB for a BA in Literature, wheras you can get into a Polytechnic with a couple of D's. I did Literature at Essex, and they ask for BBB- which is roughly the same as Kent, East Anglia, Surrey etc.
.

Then you've got the crazy tariff points system. A certain amount of tarriff points is awarded per grade- 280 points would be 3 C's. However some universities accept AS levels too, which means you can get through on lower grades, provided that the university haven't specified a certain grade for that subject. So you could do really well in English, average in another subject and pretty bad in the remainding one and still get through.

Bristol ask for 3 As.

[Senior2315]

Try having a look at the League tables by subject. Going for all round universities is very well but sometimes you'll be surprised at what you find. English does seem pretty typical although Cambridge isn't in the top 2: Oxford, UCL, Cambridge, St. Andrews, Warwick. Also make sure you read the course descriptions because your friend doesn't want to come all the way over here only to find her course doesn't do anything she's interested in. She'll probably want a good fogeign students department too so hae a look through the student's union pages and see what help they offer for foreign students..

[Kafka's Crow]

I know someone who's going there next year. I think they got in...

I went to Royal Holloway and did my MA in Modernism and Postmodernism 10 years ago. Our English Department was rated third after Oxbridge at that time. Don't know where it stands now in the rankings. I am totally out of touch now.

If your friend wants to study in a beautiful 'leafy' Surrey town than RHUL can be recommended. It really depends on what she wants to study and where her main interest lies.

[breathtest]

University of east anglia is very good for english literature. It is one of the top in the country, it should be in the GOOD category. The requirement is AAB in a-levels. I applied there myself. I was going to go there but have changed my mind. I'm going to Hull instead, which most people would not consider anywhere near as good as many others, but the course seemed perfect for me.

[WICKES]

University of east anglia is very good for english literature. It is one of the top in the country, it should be in the GOOD category. The requirement is AAB in a-levels. I applied there myself. I was going to go there but have changed my mind. I'm going to Hull instead, which most people would not consider anywhere near as good as many others, but the course seemed perfect for me.

I'd say Hull was a perfectly respectable University. I doubt you'd notice that much difference between East Anglia and Hull. Both Hull and East Anglia are classed in the '1994 Group' along with Essex, Surrey, Sussex, Kent.

It's a funny thing with Universities: people tend to go by the overall reputation. In fact many Universities are outstanding in particular subjects, but not in others. Essex has one of the best Economics departments in the UK, ranked among the top 5. Yet the University itself is only about 40th in the league table.

Then there is the name. 'Hull' does not have the same ring to it as 'Surrey' (which we associate with wealthy commuters, London professionals etc), yet the Universities are pretty much equal in quality and entrance requirements. The same goes for Essex and Kent. Most people would rather say they go to 'Kent' than 'Essex', yet there is no difference in quality between the Universities. For Politics and Economics Essex is far better.

I had an offer from East Anglia as well, but I go to Essex instead because I wanted to study Jung and psychoanalysis and their relationship to myth and literature, and Essex is the only place that offers such an MA.

[Whifflingpin]

"they should probably look at schools that are duel-accredited."

In that case Heidelberg, or other of the older German universities would probably be best.

[LitNetIsGreat]

Then there is the name. 'Hull' does not have the same ring to it as 'Surrey' (which we associate with wealthy commuters, London professionals etc), yet the Universities are pretty much equal in quality and entrance requirements. The same goes for Essex and Kent. Most people would rather say they go to 'Kent' than 'Essex', yet there is no difference in quality between the Universities. For Politics and Economics Essex is far better.

There's a lot of that sort of stuff still about, in life in general, as well as in the university system. I've got to be honest I've been to Hull, the place, and it is as dull as it sounds, (from what I saw, no offense) however the university is probably first rate. It's like Grimsby. No one would take anybody seriously if they said they had studied in Grimsby, they'd probably laugh. But, with that said Grimsby is a pretty awful sounding name isn't it? (Sorry if anybody lives in Grimsby like) it doesn't sum up anything other than rain and miserable people.

It is important where you study for sure, (for outside perception as well as the quality of the teaching) but I would also maintain that more important is the person doing the studying - it's all about the effort you put in at the end of the day. I know somebody who saled into Cambridge only to give up after the first term because they were missing home - unbelievable, what a waste! If she was my kid I would have sent her back with a boot up the backside!

[Scheherazade]

I went to Royal Holloway and did my MA in Modernism and Postmodernism 10 years ago. Our English Department was rated third after Oxbridge at that time. Don't know where it stands now in the rankings. I am totally out of touch now.

If your friend wants to study in a beautiful 'leafy' Surrey town than RHUL can be recommended. It really depends on what she wants to study and where her main interest lies.My best friend did both his BSc and MSc at RHUL so I spent a lot of time there and it is a great university (always ranking in top 10) with a great campus:

http://www.isg.rhul.ac.uk/~pqah018/RHUL.jpg

(just to imagine that all this belonged to one person at one point).

It is very close to London but still green and relaxed (a little expensive, though).

I got an offer from Warwick for an MA but not sure yet. Might go for Southampton because of their flexible study programme (three cheers for "no attendance").

What does everyone think of OU's postgrad programmes?

I also agree with Neely's comments regarding the importance of efforts one puts into their studies. The university can do only so much; the rest is up to you.

[WICKES]

There's a lot of that sort of stuff still about, in life in general, as well as in the university system. I've got to be honest I've been to Hull, the place, and it is as dull as it sounds, (from what I saw, no offense) however the university is probably first rate. It's like Grimsby. No one would take anybody seriously if they said they had studied in Grimsby, they'd probably laugh. But, with that said Grimsby is a pretty awful sounding name isn't it? (Sorry if anybody lives in Grimsby like) it doesn't sum up anything other than rain and miserable people.

Then again, most of Britain is pretty grim! Especially during the academic year (November-Spring). There are quite a few good Universities which are not taken seriously simply because of the name: along with Hull and Essex (both of which usually rank between 30th and 50th out of the 122), there are places like Reading, Aberdeen and Cardiff. People are more impressed by a name like the 'University of the West Of England' or 'De Montfort' or 'Hertfordshire', even though these Universities are far lower down the league table and have lower entrance standards than Hull, Reading and Essex.

[LitNetIsGreat]

Then again, most of Britain is pretty grim! Especially during the academic year (November-Spring).

True, but few of them sound as bad as Grimsby.

I think that there are a range of different issues really. You have got to ask yourself what your real intentions are, do you want the best education for yourself or do you want to build an impressive CV? Of course sometimes the two can, and often combine, but for me anything in the mid-to-top half of the ratings is going to give you the opportunity to get a good education. I wouldn't even knock those rated lower automatically, as the ratings are based on all sorts of things. If you have got a few decent, passionate tutors and you have the personal dedication to study then you can do well wherever you go.

[Lokasenna]

True, but few of them sound as bad as Grimsby.

Some friends and I have invented the University of Bognor Regis for just such an eventuality - the people of Grimsby may rejoice!

[LitNetIsGreat]

Ha, ha, it is funny you should mention Bognor Regis, I was honestly going to say only that could compete with the likes of Grimsby in terms of place names. Maybe you could study a degree at Grimsby and do an MA at Bognor Regis? Just my luck that I wouldn't be able to get funding.

[Emil Miller]

Some friends and I have invented the University of Bognor Regis for just such an eventuality - the people of Grimsby may rejoice!

It used be known as Bognor before King George V was asked to bestow the Regis suffix after he briefly stayed there.

Legend has it that the King's last words, upon being told that he would soon be well enough to revisit the town, were "Bugger Bognor!" Although there is little evidence that these words were actually uttered in this context, and although the sea air helped the King to regain his health, it is certain that the King had little regard (to put it mildly) for the town

[Kafka's Crow]

My best friend did both his BSc and MSc at RHUL so I spent a lot of time there and it is a great university (always ranking in top 10) with a great campus:

http://www.isg.rhul.ac.uk/~pqah018/RHUL.jpg

(just to imagine that all this belonged to one person at one point).

It is very close to London but still green and relaxed (a little expensive, though).

I got an offer from Warwick for an MA but not sure yet. Might go for Southampton because of their flexible study programme (three cheers for "no attendance").

What does everyone think of OU's postgrad programmes?

I also agree with Neely's comments regarding the importance of efforts one puts into their studies. The university can do only so much; the rest is up to you.

Warwick is great. Two of my ex-classmates are doing their PhDs there. Royal Holloway used to be very demanding and fussy in their admission policies. You had to have good grades plus they would make sure that you were up to their standard in a lengthy interview. A lot would depend on that interview.

Thanks for putting up the photo. My kids call this place 'Harry Potter's School' and we used to go there to watch games of quidich!!! Haven't been there for a couple of years now. I love Founders Building. To think of it, not only all this belonged to one person but he donated it for the good of mankind.
http://www.rhul.ac.uk/English/studying/Postgraduate-Study/