Freedom ?!!

[Persuasion]

Freedom is a word that we all heard and read about and said it a lot.We all have our own versions of this word and it is meaning.

But what is the real meaning of freedom?

Is their an absolute freedom in our world?

Can freedom be conditioned? (applied when it suit us and not applied when it works against us).

[African_Love]

To me, 'freedom' is the absence of suffering.

[The Atheist]

Is their an absolute freedom in our world?

No.

Pitcairn Islanders thought so, but the world caught up with them eventually.

[Spherical Cow]

Perhaps freedom is a term that necessitates context as universal laws will ultimately dictate the amount of actions that can occur. The elementary mechanisms — and root particles and rules that support these — that manifest in the macroscopic phenomena we experience intrinsically dilute the semantic merit of a term such as freedom. If all actions result from the interaction of mass within space then surely mass, and its interactions, is a limiting factor with regard to what can occur. The universe as it can be observed is finite and thus restricted. In context, freedom is a term that describes the relative restrictions of one situation to another.

[dafydd manton]

No, there never can be. We still have to pay taxes, to enjoy the services we get such as refuse collection, street lighting, fire services, hospitals etc. if they aren't provided by the state, then we have to pay insurance companies. In order to pay those taxes, we have to work. We have responsibilites to others around us, even if only in a passive sense. We have to provide housing for our families, which comes at a price. We have to provide food for them, whether we pay for it, or whether we grow it. If we grow it, the land it is grown on may be leased/rented. What we grow is dictated by the needs of those we support. In any event, seed has to be paid for, unless we have seen to it that we have our own source, which could be constured as a lack of freedom. Every country in the world has a government, to which we are more or less subject. Not that any of this is necessarily bad, it could hardly be construed as total freedom.

[maraki16]

to me, freedom is a necessary utopia that keeps us going through the centuries. there is no absolute freedom in nature, if we take into consideratio the fact that people have many a times been controlled by nature, not being able to control its powers. so from a point of view, human beings, and animate form of existence in general is not completely free, for it is always controlled to an extent.
being free means not being controlled, being able to act on our own, without being imposed, confronted etc. but we can see from our everyday life and experience, that complete freedom does not exist. children are controlled by their parents ; they are not free to do the things they want or give them pleasure if their parents think they are not for the child's good. but nevertheless, even if the motives are good, they 'steal' their children's freedom.
we are not allowed to work the way we want to, we have to go according to what our employer wishes us to do, otherwise we are fired. yes, we have the freedom to choose and quit, but are restrained by the instict of survival.
there are many examples that show us that absolute freedom cannot exist in a world where different forms of life interact, in a society where people co-exist, simply because, life is constructed in a hierarchy, in a system. if absolute freedom was ateempted by every single person, then what would occur would be a chaos. unfortunately, absolute freedom does not bring balance, simply because, total freedom means that everyone can do what he wishes, despite the fact that his wishes and actions might have great impacts on other people's lives. this way, everyone would be uncontrollable and perhaps terrible things would happen.
on the other hand of course, all these might not sound really humanistic, but rather practical and deterministic. yes, i believe that freedom does not exist entirely. but that does not mean that we are condemned to slavery. personally, i am not the one to judge the state of the world and of society, and although i try to see the naked truth of this issue, it is true that people have by nature the need to be free, like every other animal in this world.

[Persuasion]

To me, 'freedom' is the absence of suffering.

I love your version of " Freedom" every time i read it i understand it more :)

Yeah as you all said there is no absolute freedom in our world or this universe we are all connected. together in away we can't have full and total freedom.

I think limited freedom is good as long as our pride and dignity is respected and our rights as human beings are preserved and protected. Limited freedom can help to shape our lives and find meaning to it.
But what I hate is the conditioned freedom, a freedom given to people as long as they are thinking, believing and living the way the political power want and their interests are met.
If one person or group of people chose a different believe or way of living, then their freedom is taken??!

[IceM]

Freedom is sin. Limited freedom is slavery.

[Persuasion]

Freedom is sin. Limited freedom is slavery.

Why freedom is sin ?:shocked:

[Tournesol]

I don't think that 'freedom' can be defined by one definition/meaning, in the same way that 'love' cannot be defined under one meaning.

In my opinion, there are types of freedom.

- There's the physical freedom, i.e. not being held in bondage/ captivitiy.

- Then there's freedom of rights - getting what's your due [and as dafydd said, we have to sometimes pay a monetary fee for these rights, eg garbage collection]

--Then there's freddom of thought - mental freedom. This is the type of freedom we should worry about. Are we really free from mental enslavement?

That's my take on it.

[blazeofglory]

How can there be an absolute freedom, for we are slaves to so many things. Imagine you are a child and you depend on your parents or guardians for a variety of things fro foods through clothes, shelters to compassions and for all that you have to obey your parents. You may loath school, do not like to eat medicines while sick and like to eat lots of ice-cream and the like but you are not free to do all that your heart wants. You may be a grownup. You want to certain things or behave instinctively but there is a society or culture restricting you to sets of manners or to codes of conducts.

You are slaves to the foods you eat and in the same way you are a slave to the compassion of your wife. The state gives you a certain amount of security and you have to follow its rules and if you breach any of them you will be subjected to the punishments pursuant to the laws legislated by the people you chose to represent you and your community. Man can never be free and freedom is drivel ideated by a few political pundits in point of fact

[IceM]

Why freedom is sin ?:shocked:

Sin is a socially unacceptable, but common, act. It is frowned upon. In committing one you distance yourself from others on the basis on conduct and from religious law on the basis of defiance. Doing this creates a spiritual freedom. You are indulging in an experience, a feeling others seek to resist. You break away from religious law is a sense similar to the Americans breaking away from British Parliament prior to the Revolution. One creates from themselves a personal niche that nobody can infringe upon, because there is no standard with evil as there is with good. Hopefully that explanation is sufficient.

[The Atheist]

I don't think that 'freedom' can be defined by one definition/meaning, in the same way that 'love' cannot be defined under one meaning.

In my opinion, there are types of freedom.

- There's the physical freedom, i.e. not being held in bondage/ captivitiy.

- Then there's freedom of rights - getting what's your due [and as dafydd said, we have to sometimes pay a monetary fee for these rights, eg garbage collection]

--Then there's freddom of thought - mental freedom. This is the type of freedom we should worry about. Are we really free from mental enslavement?

That's my take on it.

Good summary!

[billl]

Man can never be free and freedom is drivel ideated by a few political pundits in point of fact

Let's not get carried away... :)

If, in a country where some human beings have physical ownership of and the right to torture other human beings, there are political voices calling for the "freedom" of the chained and tortured individuals, I think it would be wrong to dismiss those calls as 'drivel' simply because everyone is "enslaved" by food, or because society might still have less onerous restrictions preventing us from stealing or endangering each other, etc. I think that people using the word "freedom" aren't usually promising anything about freedom from food, or freedom from restrictions people generally find beneficial.

[Virgil]

In most cases when talking abvout freedom we are talking about it in the political sense.

So in this context, freedom is the ability for an individual to make decisions over the soverignty of his destiny and life, and the ability to express himself and express those decisions. It locates the center of decision making in the individual and not the state or group or other mass entity. Ecomonic freedom is clearly a part of the political environment that he lives. If a man is not free to keep the fruits of his labor (his earnings, within some acceptable allowance for social responsibility) then he is clearly not free. If a man is taxed on his earnings at 50%, then he is only half free.

[Persuasion]

You are slaves to the foods you eat and in the same way you are a slave to the compassion of your wife. The state gives you a certain amount of security and you have to follow its rules and if you breach any of them you will be subjected to the punishments pursuant to the laws legislated by the people you chose to represent you and your community. Man can never be free and freedom is drivel ideated by a few political pundits in point of fact


Sometimes we limit or sacrifice our freedom to get the love of our partners or keep them happy or keep them with us, but isn’t this a freedom?!

A freedom to give up our freedom with our own well in order to be happy.

[Scheherazade]

Sometimes we limit or sacrifice our freedom to get the love of our partners or keep them happy or keep them with us, but isn’t this a freedom?!

A freedom to give up our freedom with our own well in order to be happy.
Are you saying that you need to sacrifice your freedom to be loved in return by the person you love?

If you don't mind me asking, Persuasion, are you a young female of Muslim (probably Arabic) origin? In your late teens/early 20s?

[Persuasion]

Are you saying that you need to sacrifice your freedom to be loved in return by the person you love?

If you don't mind me asking, Persuasion, are you a young female of Muslim (probably Arabic) origin? In your late teens/early 20s?


What made you think that I'm Muslim of Arabic origin in my 20s ?

Besides this happens everywhere in the world one way or another people give some of freedom to maintain a relationship.

[Scheherazade]

What made you think that I'm Muslim of Arabic origin in my 20s ?Don't you think you should answer my question first before posing one of your own?

Besides this happens everywhere in the world one way or another people give some of freedom to maintain a relationship. Of course, we all give up a little in a relationship; it is called "compromise".

However in your earlier post, you said "Sometimes we limit or sacrifice our freedom to get the love of our partners". Now, this is not compromise but bribing the person you set your heart on to love you in return.

What's more, if a person cares for you, they will not ask you "sacrifice" something as precious as your freedom.

Will you be expecting the other person "sacrifice" their freedom to get your love?

[Persuasion]

Don't you think you should answer my question first before posing one of your own?
your love?

Dear Scheherazade, I choose not to answer this question, because this Topic "Freedom" discusses freedom in it's meaning and types in our world irrelevant to our religions and origins.


Of course, we all give up a little in a relationship; it is called "compromise".


Compromise is another meaning of restricted freedom, you give up some of your freedom to keep the relationship going.

However in your earlier post, you said "Sometimes we limit or sacrifice our freedom to get the love of our partners". Now, this is not compromise but bribing the person you set your heart on to love you in return.

What's more, if a person cares for you, they will not ask you "sacrifice" something as precious as your freedom.

Will you be expecting the other person "sacrifice" their freedom to get?

My point from this comment "Sometimes we limit or sacrifice our freedom to get the love of our partners or keep them happy or keep them with us, but isn’t this a freedom?!
A freedom to give up our freedom with our own well in order to be happy."

Is that when we make the choice of limiting or sacrificing our freedom to get
the love of a partner (whether this right or wrong) with our own well, then this is one form of Freedom. A freedom of choice.
]

[Scheherazade]

Dear Scheherazade, I choose not to answer this question, because this Topic "Freedom" discusses freedom in it's meaning and types in our world irrelevant to our religions and origins.No worries. Your reluctance to give a straight answer is an answer in itself.

And in this instance, I believe, our social and religious backgrounds are important because it is one of the misinterpreation of Islam that female members of the society should "sacrifice" their "freedom" to make their partners happy or to be accepted.

However, we are not going to discuss religion here and, since in your reply you simply repeat the same things again without offering further explanation, I don't think there is much else to be discussed either.

[Persuasion]

No worries. Your reluctance to give a straight answer is an answer in itself.

And in this instance, I believe, our social and religious backgrounds are important because it is one of the misinterpreation of Islam that female members of the society should "sacrifice" their "freedom" to make their partners happy or to be accepted.

However, we are not going to discuss religion here and, since in your reply you simply repeat the same things again without offering further explanation, I don't think there is much else to be discussed either.


Dear Scheherazade, why not tell us about your version of freedom and your thoughs about ?

[?NIETZSCHE'XIST]

FREEDOM is often misunderstood as Free Will where Anything is possible and where values are incosequential to Choice and Action.

[blazeofglory]

Freedom is in fact something we seem to picture in life, but in the real sense I do not think there is any freedom in our real life. I do not think there is any freedom from fear, though we are protected by state police forces in point of fact. People accumulate wealth thinking that they may need it in future, but he is not sure that he can consume them, for there is a fear of death, of stealth and the like and therefore we may outwardly be intrepid but psychologically or inwardly it is all the time lurking

[dafydd manton]

Might one form of Freedom be the right to put forward a point of view without anybody else being confrontational? Freedom of thought, in a sense? Freedom of expression, and most especially in a forum where all are equal until they prove themselves otherwise?

[Persuasion]

It feels good to have the freedom to share the idea of freedom with all of the members that gave some of their time to share it with me, thanks :cheers2:

I think in our world on earth there is no real unlimited freedom. There are rules of the universe made by God, and rules that we made, and still make, which limits our freedom whether for our own good or for the others own good.

To me freedom is being able to fly like birds with out engines, or artificial wings and feel the wind on my face. Just imagining that makes me happy.

Maybe freedom is in our mind, in our heart !

[.Kafka]

The notion of 'freedom' is one that is propagated unconsciously by the bourgeoisie to perpetuate class servility. To think in terms of 'freedom' and 'enslavement' is to be a slave; a slave to a language which for the last two-hundred or so years has lost any meaning.

[Redzeppelin]

Freedom is the condition of being able to exercise one's free will. I am free to chose all my behaviors except those that sustain my life (eating, breathing, drinking, sleeping). Those behaviors can be stopped via my free will choice, but only for so long. Pretty much everything else is a function of my choice.

However, unfettered freedom is not freedom at all: my freedom to swing my arm extends only as far as my neighbor's right to not have his nose broken extends. Once I swing my arm and break his nose, I've violated his freedom to not have his person violated. We must voluntarily limit our own freedoms to protect the freedoms of others, which in turn protects our own. Any good book on jurisprudence and/or natural law will make clear that embedded in the idea of freedom is a limitation of rights. With no limitation of rights, there can be no true freedom, because unrestricted freedom morphs into oppression of the worst kind.

[zoolane]

Most of the replies have being on hardship of countries, religion or political in one shape or other.

Freedom is probably could all these things and more in that mindset but freedom to me is one being open honesty with everyone with my opinions maybe being not so blunt as I have been. Freedom to me is be able to on here, writing what whether to chose to writing about and be dictate to what allow to writing this forum obvious with reason. To going to college (hopeful passes exams in May). Still remaining having a great relationships with my partner and my kids.

[said mishal]

the best one who can tell you the right meaning of freedom someone who requires it .
freedom is not an ordinary word it's words and words carry a lot of meanings and philosopher experiences . if your parents insult you , if your brothers hate you , your friend is cunning as a fox and suddenly you find your self in a close room with mice , you'll know what do you want!!!
freedom

[Persuasion]

Freedom !!

Looking at what’s happening now in this world, I think the word lost its meaning.

[Derwind]

The way I look at it is "Freedom" is what ever you make it to be.

That is to say that "Freedom" is dependent solely on your individual opinion/personality.

The meaning "Freedom" has to me is knowing my "happiness", "respect", "love", "hate", "perspective" ect.. is 100% my own and effected by how I judge it.

I don't deny that any one of those states of mind/emotions can all be conditioned by external factors, however, no one will know exactly what I'm thinking or how I will react to certain adverse situations.

You can take an educated guess if you observe me long enough but you'll never know.

Thats my personal freedom.

This may sound quite introverted and a anti-social but thats not how I'm trying to come across.

Its just I find that the quality of freedom is defined internally and no matter what external factors you come across, you will never be truly free unless you are rigid and strong from within.

That is my opinion of freedom, hope that it helps. :)

P.S. I'll clarify myself if this is hard to understand, just give me a shout. :D

[Cunninglinguist]

Hi,

The only totally free thing is nothing; it is impossible for a thing to be totally free, in a strict sense. For a thing to be totally free of all constraints would render it free from its own properties, and thus non-existent. Therefore a thing that possesses total freedom, or metaphysical libertarianism is an incoherency and a logical (and even conceptual) impossibility. Insofar as a thing's behavior is necessitated by the properties that constitute it, everything must be subject to some degree of determinism; for those truly probabilistic events (if such events exist) the behavior of the object(s) involved are determined by randomness.

Freedom can be defined as a lack of constraints. With the aforementioned, we can deduce that something can only be free with respect to something else. For example, a will can be free to do what it wants, yet it can never be free from itself, i.e. its own values and desires.

One interpretation of the question "is there absolute freedom in our world" posited by the OP is: "can one have absolute freedom with respect to society?" And the answer is probably yes: imagine one who lives by themselves, totally independently, in a cabin somewhere in the woods. Most people do not want to live like that, however. And there is an observation to be made; that when someone does so choose to live independently from society, he looses all the conveniences society had offered (such as tap water), which actually granted him certain freedoms that he would not otherwise possess.


Freedom !!

Looking at what’s happening now in this world, I think the word lost its meaning.

Things are substantially better than they were 70 years ago. From a retrospective point of view, the now is pretty great!


The way I look at it is "Freedom" is what ever you make it to be.

That is to say that "Freedom" is dependent solely on your individual opinion/personality.

The meaning "Freedom" has to me is knowing my "happiness", "respect", "love", "hate", "perspective" ect.. is 100% my own and effected by how I judge it.

I don't deny that any one of those states of mind/emotions can all be conditioned by external factors, however, no one will know exactly what I'm thinking or how I will react to certain adverse situations.

You can take an educated guess if you observe me long enough but you'll never know.

Thats my personal freedom.

This may sound quite introverted and a anti-social but thats not how I'm trying to come across.

Its just I find that the quality of freedom is defined internally and no matter what external factors you come across, you will never be truly free unless you are rigid and strong from within.

That is my opinion of freedom, hope that it helps. :)

P.S. I'll clarify myself if this is hard to understand, just give me a shout. :D

I am finding this quite hard to understand. I don't see any merits in making freedom's definition arbitrary. One can associate freedom with happiness, etc. but surely not define it as such?

[Derwind]

I am finding this quite hard to understand. I don't see any merits in making freedom's definition arbitrary. One can associate freedom with happiness, etc. but surely not define it as such?

This is not so. I find external influences have no sway on "freedom" beyond the literal definition i.e. locked in a prison cell.

Happiness is a factor yes but I think "Freedom" has to involve how one is affected by external factors.

The person doesn't have to be a happy over there situation but they have right mental constitution to make the best of what they have and to not be affected by most any external factors.

This is what "freedom" means to me, though I'll admit I may be misguided or even naive but I like to think "freedom" is whatever I make of it. :)

[Cunninglinguist]

This is not so. I find external influences have no sway on "freedom" beyond the literal definition i.e. locked in a prison cell.

Happiness is a factor yes but I think "Freedom" has to involve how one is affected by external factors.

The person doesn't have to be a happy over there situation but they have right mental constitution to make the best of what they have and to not be affected by most any external factors.

This is what "freedom" means to me, though I'll admit I may be misguided or even naive but I like to think "freedom" is whatever I make of it. :)

I'm still not understanding this. How are you defining freedom? Freedom in the literal sense? You seem to be equating freedom with freedom of thought.

[Derwind]

I'm still not understanding this. How are you defining freedom? Freedom in the literal sense? You seem to be equating freedom with freedom of thought.

Not freedom in the absolute literal sense i.e. Being locked in a cage and then find a way to escape, thus finding your freedom.

I think you may be right about freedom with freedom of thought, I personally find the most liberating freedom one could have. But more to the point, I think what I'm trying to get at is really just positive thinking. Taking the world with a glass half full approach, seems to me the only way to find truly attainable freedom.

Though I suppose that sounds like its approaching theism, I assure you I have no intention of guiding this discussion into a nattering of moral quandaries. :smilewinkgrin:

[usman.khawar]

if there is no God than i m free. and if He exist i m not free.

i came to know He exist and found amazing that He gives freedom!! freedom of choice/.

its crystal clear i have to bear my choices results by myself.

[Panglossian]

Freedom is dreamless sleep.

[G L Wilson]

if there is no God than i m free. and if He exist i m not free.

i came to know He exist and found amazing that He gives freedom!! freedom of choice/.

its crystal clear i have to bear my choices results by myself.

Fear is a strong bond.


Freedom is dreamless sleep.

Truth.

[usman.khawar]

Fear is a strong bond.

yes you are right fear is a strong bond. but i believe and came to know Love is the most powerfull and strong bond.

but i didnt understand why you comment this in reply for my post ? will u explain the reason ?

[G L Wilson]

yes you are right fear is a strong bond. but i believe and came to know Love is the most powerfull and strong bond.

but i didnt understand why you comment this in reply for my post ? will u explain the reason ?

I see fear as driving your belief in God, which is sound religiously. I reckon that you are right because love is a stronger bond than fear. I don't know how you can fear and love, it might be impossible, it might be worth a go, for love conquers the hesitant man.

[Calidore]

A child can both fear and love his abusive parent(s).

[G L Wilson]

A child can both fear and love his abusive parent(s).

You are so right, Calidore, there are even studies which prove that you are right.

[dwdean]

A child can both fear and love his abusive parent(s).

you sure about that?
i would say fear, yes. love, not so much. maybe not even respect.

[Calidore]

you sure about that?
i would say fear, yes. love, not so much. maybe not even respect.

I worked for a foster care agency for many years (though not as a social worker), and yes, I'm sure. As the child grows and matures, the love may turn into other things, but a small child loves unconditionally. That's what makes child abuse probably the greatest form of betrayal.

[G L Wilson]

I worked for a foster care agency for many years (though not as a social worker), and yes, I'm sure. As the child grows and matures, the love may turn into other things, but a small child loves unconditionally. That's what makes child abuse probably the greatest form of betrayal.

I think a child does love unconditionally, it is only later that resentment at abuse grows problematic.

[Bessie11]

I love my freedom very much
to me freedom is, do what you want nothing much of this.

[G L Wilson]

I love my freedom very much
to me freedom is, do what you want nothing much of this.

Modesty in all things, hey Bessie11? If modesty was a virtue, there would be more of it. Even still vanity is a big problem, and there is a lot of it. To me, freedom from error is freedom which means that we are never quite free to do as we please: a duty to one's self is a nothing.

[blazeofglory]

Where are we free? Let us not confine us to a set of political, social or other ideals and let us make it an open discussion with no preoccupations. Tell me when you are free? You are never free in actuality and you are simply pretenders and your sense of freedom is totally driveling.
I work in society thinking that I will be free from fear in isolation. I am setting up a family thinking that when I am sick or need love and compassion I will be secured there.

And when I am craving security I am losing part of my freedom to those who provide the security I am seeking. When I want love I can get it through surrender and surrender is a variant of slavery. Then how can we enjoy freedom.

Let us talk about total freedom and we cannot have total freedom and this is just an ideal not a real thing and in reality we are always enslaved.

When I am in office I have to abide by many regulations, directives, systems and by certain standards set for me like disciplines and codes of conducts and this is a chain on me and I call it freedom, the freedom to earn a living, the freedom to define my values , the freedom to realize my dreams, the freedom to have a corporate circle, the freedom to make decent life and enhance the lifestyle. But behind all these freedoms I have to pay a huge price, I cannot enjoy the freedom of not paying my tax, and if the organization needs my work I do not enjoy the freedom of not working.

Life is a full of slaveries. Even in nature you are not free. Imagine how a deer or other wild animals live in constant fear and they have to be prepared for death when a predator invades their herd. They have no freedom to protect their lives.

While I am working I dream of the freedom of being free and dozing off in a cozy room and when I am there out of work I always dream of working laboriously to earn a decent living. When people are single they want spouses and when they have spouses they want to be free from each other's dominances.

When I am on a ranch living with cattle I just dream of being a corporate mogul and when I am a corporate mogul I simply dream of living that pasturing life, carefree in close proximity with nature. I cannot reconcile myself with this sense of freedom and I cannot say when we are really free.

[usman.khawar]

Where are we free? Let us not confine us to a set of political, social or other ideals and let us make it an open discussion with no preoccupations. Tell me when you are free? You are never free in actuality and you are simply pretenders and your sense of freedom is totally driveling.
I work in society thinking that I will be free from fear in isolation. I am setting up a family thinking that when I am sick or need love and compassion I will be secured there.

And when I am craving security I am losing part of my freedom to those who provide the security I am seeking. When I want love I can get it through surrender and surrender is a variant of slavery. Then how can we enjoy freedom.

Let us talk about total freedom and we cannot have total freedom and this is just an ideal not a real thing and in reality we are always enslaved.

When I am in office I have to abide by many regulations, directives, systems and by certain standards set for me like disciplines and codes of conducts and this is a chain on me and I call it freedom, the freedom to earn a living, the freedom to define my values , the freedom to realize my dreams, the freedom to have a corporate circle, the freedom to make decent life and enhance the lifestyle. But behind all these freedoms I have to pay a huge price, I cannot enjoy the freedom of not paying my tax, and if the organization needs my work I do not enjoy the freedom of not working.

Life is a full of slaveries. Even in nature you are not free. Imagine how a deer or other wild animals live in constant fear and they have to be prepared for death when a predator invades their herd. They have no freedom to protect their lives.

While I am working I dream of the freedom of being free and dozing off in a cozy room and when I am there out of work I always dream of working laboriously to earn a decent living. When people are single they want spouses and when they have spouses they want to be free from each other's dominances.

When I am on a ranch living with cattle I just dream of being a corporate mogul and when I am a corporate mogul I simply dream of living that pasturing life, carefree in close proximity with nature. I cannot reconcile myself with this sense of freedom and I cannot say when we are really free.

good explanation for those who said on earth we are free to do anything. freedom is like a new idol i beleive. people wish to have freedom. freedom from fear, frustrations,punishment etc. but freedom is just like a dream after which people are running blindly. no one is free and slave of many others. but i think one is least slave and enjoying most freedom. Mystic. why i said so? you have read the thread.

Quote : If there is no God, everything is permitted.
Fyodor Dostoevsky

[G L Wilson]

Quote : If there is no God, everything is permitted.
Fyodor Dostoevsky

Quite true in a way.

[soniat]

"Freedom is not free" .....we can't get actual freedom from this world

[G L Wilson]

I'd rather die as a man than live as a woman.

[TheChilly]

Freedom is a word that we all heard and read about and said it a lot.We all have our own versions of this word and it is meaning.

But what is the real meaning of freedom?

Is their an absolute freedom in our world?

Can freedom be conditioned? (applied when it suit us and not applied when it works against us).







Freedom is being at peace with oneself and everything around him despite things in life being "hard" or "time-consuming", whether it's work, school, or family commitments, without anyone to dictate your life and without anyone to regulate how you should live and develop yourself. Freedom is being without trying to be.

If there's evidence of absolute freedom in our world... there is and there isn't. People are free to go about their daily lives and to make their own choices and judgments in some parts of the world, but at the same time, in other parts, freedom is used to control those without it through money and power, that freedom of those part of the system being "false" because of those being controlled by the invisible system itself (i.e.: Money and power controlling a wealthy tycoon/president, giving him the "freedom" to control those below him for a "greater good" or for "personal gain"). Freedom can be conditioned. Without free-will, there is no freedom.

[Rores28]

for informal parlance the word is fine, but if you are to have a philosohpica discussion, its just a confusing proxy.

The word encompasses too many ideas and ultimately doesn't have a moral praxis. The real question is what will increase the net positive emotion of sentient beings. If freedom is a necessary requirement so be it, but freedom in all its permutations can be a double-edged sword. So if freedom runs counter to this, and decreases positive emotions what is the purpose of striving for it?

As another poster said freedom at the very least should be broken into component parts before any meaningful discussion can be had.

[usman.khawar]

There is a true story. in short its like a king wish to conqure the world his name was Zulqurnain. finally he conqured all the earth. when he was coming back and every one was welcoming and cheering him for his success. he saw a man sitting aside. He surprised that everyone is coming to him and congratulating him and have some demands from him. so who is that guy who is not even noticing him. He came down from his horse and stood before that guy. he asked him why not you came to me and ask me for something as i m the king of all the world. that guy replied i dont like to ask something from my slave's slave. king was very intelligent as well he surprisingly asked him how can u say that ?? that guy asked him what make you to conqure the world? King replied that was my wish!/..... that guy told him that you are slave of your wish (self). and i have enslaved all my wishes(Self) for the sake of Lord. so you are the slave of my slave. i think that guy was enjoying the most freedom.

[Freudian Monkey]

If we define freedom as being free to act independently without outside influence or control, isn't language itself something that makes freedom impossible, since language is a collectively selected system of symbols? As Lacan said, we are being born into language; we exist in the influence of language ever since our birth. Our very thoughts are in unseparable connection with language. Even if we think of language in a wittgenstenian sense (as a collection of language-games), language is still something that can be, to some extend, lead and controlled.

Therefore whoever controls our understanding of a symbol(s) of a language(s), is able to lead/control our thoughts. Think about the use of terms like terrorism and democracy, for instance. A bit more distant example would be the word pagan. As these examples show, the nature of a symbol can be altered in purpose for political means etc.

[Theunderground]

Most adults are not strong enough to be free. Most children are strong enough for it,and revel in true freedom. As you get older freedom must be brought with desire and struggle. Freedom is not free. You must fight for your right to party.

[IceM]

Freedom is sin. Limited freedom is slavery.


Sin is a socially unacceptable, but common, act. It is frowned upon. In committing one you distance yourself from others on the basis on conduct and from religious law on the basis of defiance. Doing this creates a spiritual freedom. You are indulging in an experience, a feeling others seek to resist. You break away from religious law is a sense similar to the Americans breaking away from British Parliament prior to the Revolution. One creates from themselves a personal niche that nobody can infringe upon, because there is no standard with evil as there is with good. Hopefully that explanation is sufficient.

I renounce these comments. We are either slaves to sin or slaves to Christ. There is no freedom in sin. In Christ, there is freedom from sin and condemnation, and in Christ, there is freedom from the control of sin, so now I choose to be free in Christ. And others can too, if they place faith in Jesus as Lord and repent of their sins. Glory to God in the highest.