Captain Tilney

[kiki1982]

So, I finished the book today and was gratified with a typical Austen-ending: everyone married and happy (don't we like it all aaaah) :).

But what was the thing with Captain Tilney, the older brother of Henry and Eleanor and heir to Northanger Abbey?

James Morland is engaged to Isabella Thorpe and Henry, Eleanor and father General Tilney take an instant liking to Catherine, James's sister. Led on by Henry, of course. Captain Frederick Tilney then turns up, wants to be introduced to Isabella because he seems to like her, although she has no mind to dance, because clearly she is engaged to James, which no-one knows. Then, when it is out as consent of all parties has been obtained, and Catherine is gone, suddenly Frederick Tilney moves on her and seduces her so she breaks off the engagement with James (which she didn't like because of lack of money after all) in favour of Tilney, who is perfectly sure of his father refusing him consent as she is even worse off than Catherine...

Surely, luring away a girl is not honorable to do, like the others said in the book, but, moreover, it cannot be very assuring that a woman is so fickle? You will be the next is surely what one must think, as the Tilneys said. So what would he have wanted with such one, then?

But what is behind the action then, as there is always something behind it with Austen? Did Frederick like his brother so much, as other family relationships would suggest, that he knew that his father would object to a pennyless connection for Henry (James and Isabella on an income of 400 a year) and therefore seduced the girl whom he saw instantly as only after money, knowing very well that his father would never consent as the girl in question has no penny to her name? So, pennyless woman gone, father Tilney happy, Henry happy, and James Morland a narrow escape from a loveless marriage. That is win-win-win.

Or was he just being a jerk for a little while and just liked a little game? Though that seems unlikely, as none of the family are, and as the other family members do not seem to believe their eyes when they read about it.

Or was there just no engagement with Frederick at all and did Isabella make it up in order to drive James away, which she came back on in her last letter and tried to secure him anyway, by way of second choice? It did not work out with Frederick, so she must take James or otherwise have her name sullied (because why would a man back off? We have seen that in Sense and Sensibility, that does not happen with an honourable man)

I'm a little puzzled here... Any thoughts?

[Agatha]

I'm just re-reading Northanger Abbey again and I was thinking about Captain Tilney as well. In my opinion he just likes playing little games, and enjoys these kind of affairs(I'm sure it won't the first and last time when he behaved liked this) I think he never though of marrying Isabella, as he was aware of her both low social and financial status. I believe he just took pleasure from seducing girl who was engaged and he was just type who enjoyed destroying relationships? Besides I think he perfectly knew that Isabella's affection for James was not deep at all so he didn't feel blame for breaking off engagement of Isabella and James. Plus he must have been aware of Isabella weak character, how she was superficial and how easily she can be seduced, therefore he just took an opportunity. He knew he would never encounter any unpleasant consequences of this affair, as she didn't have any powerful protectors, and he was standing higher than she was on the social ladder. He knew she must be impressed by a man like he, as he was superior to his fiancé in many ways(as he was a son of a rich family plus he was the oldest son, which means he would inherit everything, whereas Henry was a son of rather poor man and Isabella at that time knew that their income will be not really impressive- only 400 a year). I think Isabella is the kind of a girl whom any decent suitor could easily posses and seduce. (I always compare her with Lydia from P&P). Jane Austen wrote that she was really vain creature, therefore she must have been delighted hearing all complements from Captain Tilney. Perhaps Henry was reluctant to admire her beauty and not so eloquent as his opponent?

[kiki1982]

I agree with you about Isabella's weak character etc, but I don't think I can agree with your thoughts on Captain Tilney. I have had some time to think about it now and I don't go with the 'nasty Captain Tilney'-idea that he seduced her because he wanted to play a game.
Taking this route it should be true that Henry and Isabella either do not know their brother at all, because for them this affair comes out of thin air. Their elder brother has never done anything like that. Now, the closeness of that family suggests that Henry and Isabella should really know their brother. For a start they all come and look at Henry's choice before giving their approval. The two brothers, Henry and Frederick, are not as far apart as Isabella and Henry and I would imagine they are even closer brothers than Henry is with his sister.
Or, the other possibility, is that Captain Tilney, despite the qualities of his family members which are always exemplary in Austen's novels, has totally changed course and has suddenly turned into an early Wickham (as he hasn't done this thing before), well not exactly, maybe rather Wickham without the monetary interest which is even more despicable. I think, regarding the qualities of Henry, Isabella and even their father, it is unlikely that he is like that. So why become like it?

Right now, I am leaning towards Captain Tilney who really despises Isabella, because he has seen her before I believe though is not acquainted with her, and thinks 'poor Mr Morland, you know what, I'll just help him a little bit'. It's not hard to do because he knows that Isabella is fickle. Isabella, though, sees a certain seduction and makes it up so that she herself is rather rough to James in the hope that Tilney will make her a proposal, however, the other does not move and Isabella tries to secure James again.

[Niamh]

Captain Tilney is Austens early attempt at a villianous libertine, and a cold and heartless one at that. After all her book is trying to be some what gothic in its nature and Captain Tilney is just one example in the novel of the type of villains in Georgian society. John Thorpe is another example and just as money hungry as his sister. Both were under the misaprehension that the Morlands would for some reason inherit from the Allens. When it appeared differently with James, Isabella looked elsewhere and saw Captain Tilney as much as an opertunity to try better herself as Tilney saw her as an opertunity to corrupt.