The Season of Spring Rain

[angliholic]

http://www.itfensi.com/d/file/sell/BenWrite/2009-01-23/d3045a4a30d5bec0b91563c03e17f26a.jpg
Internet Image



The Season of Spring Rain




AT Tomb Sweeping time, it's drizzling eternally;

Caught in the rain, a gloomy traveller,

Almost heart-broken along the road,

Asks a young boy who's a buffalo tending,

Where by any chance a tavern there be;

To the distant apricot village, the boy points.





Hi,

The English rendition above was translated by me from another classic Chinese short poem 清明 by 杜牧, a poet from Tang dynasty. The following is the Chinese version:

清明時節雨紛紛，路上行人欲斷魂，借問酒家何處有，牧童遙指杏花村。


Feel free to criticize my English translation (I know it doesn't sound good because it's only a draft) and give me feedbacks after reading this poem.

[JBI]

I'll pick more at depth later - 纷纷 though is dangerously translated as eternally, as that would have the 白话 meaning of 永远 instead of something along the lines of both non-stop and everywhere (as 纷纷 even now has the diverse implication in 白话） which I think was 杜牧‘s intention。

Likewise, I don't know why you added a lines , as one line is all it needs. 路上行人欲断魂 doesn't really need to be split up; it could easily just read something along the lines of "the traveler on the road's spirit is broken." 欲断魂 is a compliment to the 行人。To me, the line reads like 路上行人之，欲断魂也 with of course the additional grammar left out, which of course you know - so why not.

So, to use your translation mostly, and add my own interpretation.

AT Tomb Sweeping time, it's drizzling eternally;

At Tomb sweeping time, the rain is everywhere, unending

Caught in the rain, a gloomy traveller,
Almost heart-broken along the road,

On the road, the traveler's spirit breaks

Asks a young boy who's a buffalo tending,
Where by any chance a tavern there be;

He asks, please, is there a tavern nearby?

To the distant apricot village, the boy points.

The Shepherd boy points far off to apricot village.


Something along those lines - 牧童 says nothing about tending buffalo - that is just supposed.

Other than that though, it is interesting to see you interpret it, and keep up the good work - my only quibble is that you are adding quite a bit into a very simple poem, which
takes away something of its charm. Likewise, I worry that you are also translating the cute picture of the boy on a buffalo.


Anyway, it is nice to see someone else interested in Chinese poetry here, and good luck, and I look forward to reading more translations.

Oh, also you seem to have completely reworked the title of the poem, and I am not sure exactly why.

[angliholic]

I'll pick more at depth later - 纷纷 though is dangerously translated as eternally, as that would have the 白话 meaning of 永远 instead of something along the lines of both non-stop and everywhere (as 纷纷 even now has the diverse implication in 白话） which I think was 杜牧‘s intention。

Likewise, I don't know why you added a lines , as one line is all it needs. 路上行人欲断魂 doesn't really need to be split up; it could easily just read something along the lines of "the traveler on the road's spirit is broken." 欲断魂 is a compliment to the 行人。To me, the line reads like 路上行人之，欲断魂也 with of course the additional grammar left out, which of course you know - so why not.

Thanks, JBI, for your critical analysis.
I do benefit a lot from it.
Btw, are you a Chinese born in Canada? It seems like you're both good at English and Chinese.

So, to use your translation mostly, and add my own interpretation.


At Tomb sweeping time, the rain is everywhere, unending

On the road, the traveler's spirit breaks

He asks, please, is there a tavern nearby?

The Shepherd boy points far off to apricot village.

Way to go! YOur rendition is more succinct and to the point!


Something along those lines - 牧童 says nothing about tending buffalo - that is just supposed.

Other than that though, it is interesting to see you interpret it, and keep up the good work - my only quibble is that you are adding quite a bit into a very simple poem, which takes away something of its charm. Likewise, I worry that you are also translating the cute picture of the boy on a buffalo.

My version is only the first draft, and I need some time to make it sound not so shoddy!

Anyway, it is nice to see someone else interested in Chinese poetry here, and good luck, and I look forward to reading more translations.

Oh, also you seem to have completely reworked the title of the poem, and I am not sure exactly why.

Try to make it easier for the Westerners to get the picture of our Tomb Sweeping Festival!

[angliholic]

After chewing on your version and your advice, here I rewrote it again:

Tomb Sweeping Day


At Tomb Sweeping time, it's drizzling on and on;

A traveler along the road, almost heart-broken,

Asks where to find a tavern by any chance;

A shepherd boy points to Apricot Village in the distance.


Feel free to criticize it again. The more you criticize, the more I recognize its flaws.

Best regards,

[Hawkman]

Hi guys,

I'm following what I can of this fascinating exchange but please have mercy on this ignorant Westerner! I have no Idea how to pronounce the Kanji characters :)

Do you mind if I ask some questions?

Does the word Apricot, refer to the name of the village or is it a poetical description of the village?

I have followed both your translations and would like to make an offering of my own on the basis that this is how I would write what I discern as the spirit of the piece in English.

It's always raining at tomb-sweeping time.
A traveller on the road, his spirit broken,
asks if there is a tavern nearby.
A shepherd boy points to Apricot village in the distance.

Please excuse my presumption but I'd love to know what you think. Can You give me any idea how I would say the authors name ?

respect, H

[JBI]

English name is Du Mu, as for the name of the village, it is the name.

To the post above that, no, I am not a Chinese-Canadian, but a Jewish-Canadian student of Chinese.

To improve your poem, I would recommend three things;

firstly, get the word-order closer to the original. The adjectives should be before the nouns, and the modifiers at the end not the beginning. That way, some of the pictorial sense of the original, and the way the gaze moves can be somewhat recreated.

Secondly, shave off as many words as you can that are added into the English.


At Tomb Sweeping time, it's drizzling on and on;
Tomb sweeping time; drizzling on and on

A traveller on the road, his spirit broken,
Road-bound traveler, almost broken-spirited

Asks where to find a tavern by any chance;
asks, A tavern in what place?


A shepherd boy points to Apricot Village in the distance.
Shepherd boy points far off to apricot village.

As for the name apricot village, I am not sure if it is supposed to be apricot or almond, but you could also decide to just put Xing Hua village, as I am not sure that the name needs to be translated

Thirdly, you may wish to use a thesaurus to get the best sounding words, but that is a subjective enterprise.

I wish you luck, and these are just suggestions. Good luck with this.

[angliholic]

Hi guys,

I'm following what I can of this fascinating exchange but please have mercy on this ignorant Westerner! I have no Idea how to pronounce the Kanji characters :)

Do you mind if I ask some questions?

Does the word Apricot, refer to the name of the village or is it a poetical description of the village?

It could be both!

I have followed both your translations and would like to make an offering of my own on the basis that this is how I would write what I discern as the spirit of the piece in English.


It's always raining at tomb-sweeping time.
A traveller on the road, his spirit broken,
asks if there is a tavern nearby.
A shepherd boy points to Apricot village in the distance.

I think you've graspde the spirit of the piece and the general picture. Your version is very good. HOw do you like the poem? Is there anything that the poem evocakes you?

Please excuse my presumption but I'd love to know what you think. Can You give me any idea how I would say the authors name ?

respect, H

Here is an easy way to get the author's name in English: copy the Kanji name and put it on the google searching box, and then search, next push the translation bottun, and you'll get the English version.

Have fun


Regards,

[angliholic]

Hi, Hawkman.

Here is a link for you: http://poetrychinese.blogspot.com/2008/08/li-shangyin-magistral-judge-du-mu.html

[Hawkman]

Hi, Thanks for your reply and especially for the link. I have added it to my favourites list and will be spending some time on this site in order to take it all in.

Yes I really like Du Mu’s poem. It paints vivid pictures in my mind’s eye. I can see the rain, an old man sweeping a grave and the traveller, wearily trudging along the road in the persistent drizzle. I can feel his fatigue and disappointment at learning he still has far to go before he can rest.

I have another question though. In your exchange with JBI there is a mention of the Tomb Sweeping Festival. Are the characters for Tomb Sweeping or Tomb Sweeping Time the same as those used to describe the festival? If this is the case, in order to convey all the nuances I would include the word festival in the translation.

It’s always raining for the tomb-sweeping festival.
or
It’s always raining at the time of the tomb-sweeping festival.

Many thanks for giving me this window onto a whole new panorama of poetry.

Regards,

H

[angliholic]

Yes I really like Du Mu’s poem. It paints vivid pictures in my mind’s eye. I can see the rain, an old man sweeping a grave and the traveller, wearily trudging along the road in the persistent drizzle. I can feel his fatigue and disappointment at learning he still has far to go before he can rest.

Hi, Hawkman.

You seem to catch the vivid picture the words of this poem conjure up! Way to go!
As a side note: There is no old man in the poem in question; it's a Chinese shepherd boy.
Btw, maybe the traveller (we Chinese can be seen as the traveller) is in a sad and heavy mood for he's going to clean up his beloved folks' tombs and commemorate them by offering sacrifice and burning ghost money along with incent sticks. So, isn't "heart-broken" proper to describe him?

I have another question though. In your exchange with JBI there is a mention of the Tomb Sweeping Festival. Are the characters for Tomb Sweeping or Tomb Sweeping Time the same as those used to describe the festival? If this is the case, in order to convey all the nuances I would include the word festival in the translation.

There are different characters to express the same idea, so I don't think it matters much.

It’s always raining for the tomb-sweeping festival.
or
It’s always raining at the time of the tomb-sweeping festival.

Many thanks for giving me this window onto a whole new panorama of poetry.

Regards,

H

The pleasure is mine!

P.S.

I've received your notification yesterday, and I tried to reply to it. But there seems to be no such function as reply.

[Hawkman]

Hi angliholic,

The way the forum works you need a certain number of posts before all the features of the forum are activated. I think you may now have reached the required number and will find some more functions available to you. If not, keep posting and you soon will.

With regard to your comment on 'Heart broken' I take your point and I can see how it might be better to use that phrase. I realise that there is no old man mentioned in the poem, it's just a picture that formed in my mind when I imagined a tomb sweeping festival. I have much to learn about the customs, traditions and religious practices of China.

Incidentally, I have a few brilliant Chinese films. Chinese cinema is really outstanding. I have a copy of a film released over here as, 'Hero', 'House of flying Daggers', 'Red Cliff', 'Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon', and I have seen, but not got, 'Raise the Red Lantern'. I also like some Korean and Japanese films.

The cinematography is marvellous and the production design is unequalled. The artistry is breathtaking.

Thanks again and I look forward to being further educated :)

best, H

[JBI]

Hi, Thanks for your reply and especially for the link. I have added it to my favourites list and will be spending some time on this site in order to take it all in.

Yes I really like Du Mu’s poem. It paints vivid pictures in my mind’s eye. I can see the rain, an old man sweeping a grave and the traveller, wearily trudging along the road in the persistent drizzle. I can feel his fatigue and disappointment at learning he still has far to go before he can rest.

I have another question though. In your exchange with JBI there is a mention of the Tomb Sweeping Festival. Are the characters for Tomb Sweeping or Tomb Sweeping Time the same as those used to describe the festival? If this is the case, in order to convey all the nuances I would include the word festival in the translation.

It’s always raining for the tomb-sweeping festival.
or
It’s always raining at the time of the tomb-sweeping festival.

Many thanks for giving me this window onto a whole new panorama of poetry.

Regards,

H

The characters mean pure brightness, or something along those lines - Tomb-sweeping festival is the more colloquial English name. as for your sentences - my only objection is the poem is referring to an instance, rather than a constant - 清明节 is a holiday, but the word 时 is added, which gestures to a specific season - "this pure brightness festival season" if you will. So the line reads 清明时节雨纷纷 - literally, QingMing = pure brightness shi = time/of the time, jie=holiday, yu=to rain/rain, fenfen = ongoing/dispersed.

Something like that. The association of the elements in the line to me seeks to act as backgrounding for the mood - if you trace the action, there is a logical progression - time, weather, road, traveler, action, then gaze, then forward look. The gaze of the poem starts out wide, then zooms in on the traveler, and then to the shepherd boy, then again zooms out into the road forward and the future destination, the road ahead. The weariness of the traveler then is emphasized by the visual metaphor, as the thoughts move from his awareness of the world around him, of the time, season, weather, and journey, to the recognition that he will trudge forward, to the distant goal, highlighted perhaps by the image of the apricot blossom (or is it almond in 文言文， I don't have my dictionary with me) which marks an anticipation throughout the struggle, as the broken spirit yearns for the shelter.


As for the phrase heart-broken, my reluctance to see that word in translation is that it suggests an inherent female presence in the distance, which I am not sure is implied in the poem. 魂 to my reading at least does not imply the same intimate relationship context that heart does, but rather a more spirit sense - it's a mere nitpick, as heart-broken to me implies a man or woman who just went through a bad breakup in a relationship.

[Hawkman]

Thanks JBI I'm going to have to read this a few times to get my head around the characters and their inter-relationships. I observed that your translation, being more literal, had a fairly staccato delivery. Whilst I bow to everyone's superior knowledge of Chinese, surely, in the translation of the poem into English it should be rendered Englishly poetic, if you get my meaning. It should flow and evoke. It is therefore as much a matter of interpretation of intent as literal translation which inevitably involves some changes in order to comply to cultural paradigms in the destination language.

With regard to the heart-broken/spirit broken question, from what you have said perhaps 'soul weary' would be an apt translation.

It is a very complex issue of which I have only just cought a glimpse. Thanks for taking the time to reply and I will follow further exchanges closely.

Regards,

Hawk.

[JBI]

Thanks JBI I'm going to have to read this a few times to get my head around the characters and their inter-relationships. I observed that your translation, being more literal, had a fairly staccato delivery. Whilst I bow to everyone's superior knowledge of Chinese, surely, in the translation of the poem into English it should be rendered Englishly poetic, if you get my meaning. It should flow and evoke. It is therefore as much a matter of interpretation of intent as literal translation which inevitably involves some changes in order to comply to cultural paradigms in the destination language.

With regard to the heart-broken/spirit broken question, from what you have said perhaps 'soul weary' would be an apt translation.

It is a very complex issue of which I have only just cought a glimpse. Thanks for taking the time to reply and I will follow further exchanges closely.

Regards,

Hawk.

It's actually more involved, because of the problem with translating Chinese.

when you read in Chinese, the order of words, and their simplicity, as well as the lack of concrete prepositional grammar allows for a sort of different visual effect than reading in English - the mind literally flows through the characters, and moves with each image so you read 路 a street comes to mind, then 上 literally, your gaze moves on top of that, then 行人 your mind focalizes - this is perhaps not the best example, but elsewhere the whole sensation is the way the images and adjectives relate to eachother - 王维 was the master of that, where one line can be read 5 different ways, each one part of the picture.

Likewise the sound in Chinese is more important, so as the mind moves with the description, so does the ear with the sound patterns - of course, much of that is lost in standard times, but even what is left (assuming you aren't reading it in a reconstructed pronunciation) is central to the poem.

My reluctance then to move it purely into English is similar to the way Chinese people don't just move things into purely vernacular Chinese - even poems had certain elements, such as grammatical particles, removed to create a freer ground to work within.

Of course, this is a debated issue, but ultimately, I seem to think that the more you can stick to word order and least words one can add is the best - otherwise the charm of the simplicity is lost altogether.