We, the white race,

[PrinceMyshkin]

have produced some great heroes over the years:

Gandhi,
Martin Luther King, jr.,
Nelson Mandela.

It is time for us to stop and rest.

[Hawkman]

Very subtle, my Prince, though the view of what constitues a hero may be a little subjective. The Jungian definition as applied to literature and mythology probably only applies to the first two, though it is arguable whether their ultimate fates were attributable to hubris as defined in the jungian architype.

[kiz_paws]

have produced some great heroes over the years:

Gandhi,
Martin Luther King, jr.,
Nelson Mandela.

It is time for us to stop and rest.


Whoa, now this is powerful. I hear absolute frustration in these words, yet I find myself wanting to argue. No ... I won't (as I'm allergic to arguing) -- you have made your point. :)

[Astromaxis]

have produced some great heroes over the years:

Gandhi,
Martin Luther King, jr.,
Nelson Mandela.

It is time for us to stop and rest.


Great Post Man - Powerful and anti-racist. It celebrates life not in colour of races rather in basic humanity and Allah Almighty bless you for having such an insight. In one word: Beautiful ^_^

[lallison]

I am in Alabama right now, and I can assure that everyone isn't exactly resting. It's a nice thought, and as H-man put it, very subtle. An enjoyable, positive read. Hope it works. lal

[Alexander III]

Very well put

[Sampson]

as ever, a poem which uses so few words to tackle subjects so large and succeeds with your trademark subtly and finesse... you sir, are a genius (in my opinion, at least)

[blazeofglory]

This transcends all borders and all whites, blacks, yellows, browns shake their hands and that makes a beautiful word

[PrinceMyshkin]

Thank you, Hawkman, Kizpaws, Lallison, Alexander III, Astromaxis, Breeze and Sampson:


you sir, are a genius (in my opinion, at least)

Here, I think, my mother would have agreed with you

[_Shannon_]

I dunno what it is, but something about this piece makes me want to say...."Oh! Whatever...."

But maybe that's an indication that your poem, did what it was supposed to do. I have get check reaction to the simplification of the complex, and this upon first reading feels a whole lot like emotional string pulling.

I'm open to thinking about it differently, though...lol!

[PrinceMyshkin]

I dunno what it is, but something about this piece makes me want to say...."Oh! Whatever...."

But maybe that's an indication that your poem, did what it was supposed to do. I have get check reaction to the simplification of the complex, and this upon first reading feels a whole lot like emotional string pulling.

I'm open to thinking about it differently, though...lol!

I don't at all fault you for your reaction. The 'poem' is indeed a simplification of history but worse than that it may even be a somewhat smug over-simplification, the author being himself a member of that same "white race," but really, isn't there a grain of truth in the fact that these three admirable men achieved their greatness in the face of white arrogance and/or injustice?

[_Shannon_]

I don't at all fault you for your reaction. The 'poem' is indeed a simplification of history but worse than that it may even be a somewhat smug over-simplification, the author being himself a member of that same "white race," but really, isn't there a grain of truth in the fact that these three admirable men achieved their greatness in the face of white arrogance and/or injustice?
Oh yes:nod:...for sure...but something about this still feels off to me. I've been thinking about it since I posted before and still can't pin it down--but I am determined to ferret it out of my brain.

On another note--you've been writing, and I have not--so what is, is infinitely better than what is not. LOL! I start to feel guilty commenting on people's poems when I'm not writing myself....

[PrinceMyshkin]

Oh yes:nod:...for sure...but something about this still feels off to me. I've been thinking about it since I posted before and still can't pin it down--but I am determined to ferret it out of my brain.
And if ever you do ferret it out I would love to hear.


On another note--you've been writing, and I have not--so what is, is infinitely better than what is not. LOL! I start to feel guilty commenting on people's poems when I'm not writing myself....

Pish-tosh! Although blank|verse rarely posts poems of his own, keep an eye out for some of his responses to other posters' poems. They are in their way works of literary art.

Plus - at the risk of making you self-conscious - I intuit that you might be getting closer to writing/posting some new work of your own.

I wonder if you agree with my perception that notwithstanding the apparent, regrettable departure of Firefangled, there is a rise in the general standard of poems being posted here.

[dafydd manton]

Oh yes:nod:...for sure...but something about this still feels off to me. I've been thinking about it since I posted before and still can't pin it down--but I am determined to ferret it out of my brain.

On another note--you've been writing, and I have not--so what is, is infinitely better than what is not. LOL! I start to feel guilty commenting on people's poems when I'm not writing myself....

I feel much the same way. There is an element of ambiguity, and I feel slightly uncomfortable with the possibilites, but then, if poetry is intended to stir emotions, it is incredibly effective.

[PrinceMyshkin]

I feel much the same way. There is an element of ambiguity, and I feel slightly uncomfortable with the possibilites, but then, if poetry is intended to stir emotions, it is incredibly effective.

Apropos your and Shannon's discomfort: I understand, I think, how you feel. It's just that whenever I see a photo of Mandela's beaming, angelic, grand-fatherly face and think of him having maintained his humanity for 27 years behind bars, I'm filled with rage at the government that put him there and treated the original black population of South Africa the way they did.

[_Shannon_]

Apropos your and Shannon's discomfort: I understand, I think, how you feel. It's just that whenever I see a photo of Mandela's beaming, angelic, grand-fatherly face and think of him having maintained his humanity for 27 years behind bars, I'm filled with rage at the government that put him there and treated the original black population of South Africa the way they did.
Well---and it's not that that's not true--but the reality is that the "original black population of South Africa" didn't exactly treat one another all that humanely......tribes were vicious to one another based solely based on "race", i.e. tribal identity.

I'm just talking through my thoughts here.....

[PrinceMyshkin]

Well---and it's not that that's not true--but the reality is that the "original black population of South Africa" didn't exactly treat one another all that humanely......tribes were vicious to one another based solely based on "race", i.e. tribal identity.

I'm just talking through my thoughts here.....

I wish you hadn't taken that line. Let's say the native South Africans were every bit as racist as you say they were, and cruel to each other: does that to any degree exculpate the administrators of apartheid?

[_Shannon_]

I wish you hadn't taken that line. Let's say the native South Africans were every bit as racist as you say they were, and cruel to each other: does that to any degree exculpate the administrators of apartheid?

No, no--certainly not. And while it doesn't excuse it, or justify it in any way...or even justify any kind of Imperialism or Colonialism--it doesn't remove the fact the the violent tribal history also aided in paving the way, in part, for the systematic racism which became policy. Again--I think it is an issue of complexity with which I am struggling. Nelson Mandela doesn;t only come out of racism...which doesn't mean that apartheid is somehow an okay policy.

I am looking forward to a couple kid free (well kid asleep hours) where I am hoping to better collect (and then hopefully express) my thoughts about this. Thank you for talking through it with me...we really need a hug emoticon!

[Haunted]

this is fun, ironic and brilliant!!!

[justice4all]

:) hard-hitting and concise. However, the truth of these words really speak volumes. Well done. You wrote just the perfect length here. However, I do not like the first line as the title thing. I dunno, personal preference. Thanks for sharing. I really love it!

[PrinceMyshkin]

Thank you, Haunted and Justice4all, and Shannon:


No, no--certainly not. And while it doesn't excuse it, or justify it in any way...or even justify any kind of Imperialism or Colonialism--it doesn't remove the fact the the violent tribal history also aided in paving the way, in part, for the systematic racism which became policy. Again--I think it is an issue of complexity with which I am struggling. Nelson Mandela doesn;t only come out of racism...which doesn't mean that apartheid is somehow an okay policy.


No, assuredly Mandela is more than a survivor of racism and 27 years in prison. I could of course read his autobiography if there is one: it is the whole of that man that amazes and inspires me. Kindness and goodwill sometimes rank among the lesser virtues but in certain cases they are surely heroic. There is a Yiddish saying that some people should get medals just for getting up in the morning. What would be an appropriate award for Mandela, beyond even the Nobel Prize?

[_Shannon_]

This morning is still finding me typing one handed, while nursing--so still find myself a little limited--but can I ask if you've read or read about Native Son?? I think that is getting closer to my deal. The poem is too "cute", too neat. It makes it too easy to say "Oh how true!" and then completely dismiss it (unless you're me and it's consumed your thoughts for the past day...lol!) , yet feel like you've done "something" about it all because you had a stirring sympathetic thought....

I think it bothers me , too, the choice of heroes, they're all just so acceptable and sanitary to white folk....it's just so safe.

I dunno I guess I feel like if you're gonna write a poem about racism and the history of systematic oppression --it needs to kick the *** of everyone who reads it. It sure as hell better not be clever. And I think---you, Prince, have the writing skills, and the unique intuition of the innerworkings of people's emotional and intellectual and relational lives, and heightened observation to write such a thing---I just don't think this is it.

I don't know if that makes sense to anyone but me--and again I am hesitant to criticize, since I am producing nada....but I sure have appreciated giving my mind some parameters to dwell within for awhile thanks to your poem!

[PrinceMyshkin]

This morning is still finding me typing one handed, while nursing--so still find myself a little limited--but can I ask if you've read or read about Native Son?? I think that is getting closer to my deal. The poem is too "cute", too neat. It makes it too easy to say "Oh how true!" and then completely dismiss it (unless you're me and it's consumed your thoughts for the past day...lol!) , yet feel like you've done "something" about it all because you had a stirring sympathetic thought....

I dunno I guess I feel like if you're gonna write a poem about racism and the history of systematic oppression --it needs to kick the *** of everyone who reads it. It sure as hell better not be clever. And I think---you, Prince, have the writing skills, and the unique intuition of the innerworkings of people's emotional and intellectual and relational lives, and heightened observation to write such a thing---I just don't think this is it.

I don't know if that makes sense to anyone but me--and again I am hesitant to criticize, since I am producing nada....but I sure have appreciated giving my mind some parameters to dwell within for awhile thanks to your poem!

May I first object to your reiteration that you're producing "nada"? Isn't that a bit of the Puritan Ethic kicking up in you? At very least, here, you are producing a civil provocation to what I think you feel is the somewhat smug cleverness of my poem - and I am more than ready to plead guilty here and elsewhere to offering mere 'cleverness' when something deeper would be appreciated. I do stand by the thought behind my poem, but not behind the 'neatness' of it.

As an ideal, I aim for something more than a Right on, bro! in response to this or any other of my social commentary.