Ham on Rye, or Everything That Rises Must Converge?

[spookymulder93]

I can't choose between the two stated in the title. I'm looking for something fun and interesting to read, but at the same time I do like substance.

Which of the two do you guys suggest?

[Gilliatt Gurgle]

Sorry, I have no clue as to the content of either one, but judging purely on title, my vote is on the second one.
That is a great title.

[Desolation]

Ham On Rye. It's not great, but it's not terrible either.

I still haven't decided yet if I love or hate Bukowski.

[sixsmith]

Although I'm not personally a fan of her work, I think you're most likely to find your substance in O'Connor's short stories. Bukowski, not unlike William Burroughs, is basically a hack whose work, though comprised mostly of utter dreck, contains rare glimmers of genuine insight.

[Thom Holliday]

Although I'm not personally a fan of her work, I think you're most likely to find your substance in O'Connor's short stories. Bukowski, not unlike William Burroughs, is basically a hack whose work, though comprised mostly of utter dreck, contains rare glimmers of genuine insight.
I think it's unfair to call Bukowski a 'hack'. His work is centred around the bottom rungs of society, and he portrays a gritty, realistic view of American life when you're down and out. Admittedly, Bukowski isn't great... but he's not a hack. Plus I do admire his matter of fact writing style.

Ham on Rye has some great sections about childhood too.

Burroughs, on the other hand, is not particularly brilliant. I don't really understand what he's trying to convey, and he seems to overcomplicate his work without really using any real talent. Junky was his best work, and that is all I would personally praise Burroughs for.

[Desolation]

Burroughs, on the other hand, is not particularly brilliant. I don't really understand what he's trying to convey, and he seems to overcomplicate his work without really using any real talent. Junky was his best work, and that is all I would personally praise Burroughs for.
I don't really think that Burroughs was trying to convey anything...and that was the point. I think Burroughs' work says a lot about what people refer to as "genius." He's just a weird guy being weird, and because he's so weird, he comes off to certain people as being "brilliant," and then those people try to look for meaning in his work when there's actually none whatsoever.

That said, I like his work from an avant-garde standpoint, but I don't like his work, even the slightest bit from an "I - don't - like - reading - about - people - shooting - up - and - having - graphic - sex - with - young - children" standpoint.

[dafydd manton]

Oh, it's such a temptation to say that I studied "Ham on Rye" whilst on a sandwich course, but I daren't. Didn't like it much, either. Bit like Slimmers' bread - looks good, no substance, lots of holes.

[Thom Holliday]

I don't really think that Burroughs was trying to convey anything...and that was the point. I think Burroughs' work says a lot about what people refer to as "genius." He's just a weird guy being weird, and because he's so weird, he comes off to certain people as being "brilliant," and then those people try to look for meaning in his work when there's actually none whatsoever.

That said, I like his work from an avant-garde standpoint, but I don't like his work, even the slightest bit from an "I - don't - like - reading - about - people - shooting - up - and - having - graphic - sex - with - young - children" standpoint.

Yeah, I do agree with you there.

I'm not a huge Bukowski fan, but I do understand his talents in a way. And I did really enjoy Ham on Rye. Ah well, each to their own, I suppose. :)

[DocHeart]

Ham on Rye.

Best done during a week off work, reading and understanding Bukowski requires a certain amount of preparation.

Buy cigarettes and feel truly determined to start smoking again. Grab a few bottles of your poison while you're at it. You don't need anything else. Close all windows and blinds, force daylight to leave you alone.

Remember to burp and fart regularly and noisily.

I disagree with the friends above who don't see brilliance (not even talent) in Bukowski's writings. They are both to be found in abundance in the manner in which simplicity and directness punch frequent and critical holes in the life most of us lead, while shining a deep purple (yet so vibrant) light on the life our parents taught us to dread.

Best,
DocHeart