''Gideon ist besser als Botho''

[Ahkailon]

Hello! I've been lurking in the shadows for some time now, reading posts, but never managing to get as far as registering to chime in with my opinion. Now though, I have finally decided to make an account on the forums. ''What brought this on?'' you might, rightfully, be asking. It is, my dear man/lady/omnipotent entity, a most embarrassing matter. You see, I need help.

I do realize (from my time lurking in the murky forum waters) that asking for help with the writing of assignments is something that is frowned upon, but I was hoping that you would forgive my transgression and show compassion towards a student in distress.

To the point:
I am writing an assignment in two parts for my German class (German literature and culture), and the second part is the one troubling me.

It pertains to the book ''Irrungen, Wirrungen'' (1888), by Theodor Fontane, and it asks me to interpret the relationship between the main characters, Magdalene Nimptsch and Botho von Reinecker, and how this relationship is portrayed in the book. This is to be done in the context of the last sentence of the book: ''Gideon ist besser als Botho'' (eng.trans: Gideon is better than Botho).

Now, I do have some ideas, but I really cant seem to get a proper train of thought going, and would greatly appreciate any ideas you could add. Following now is a brief summary of the main casts relationship (to freshen up your mind if it is a long time since you read the book). If there is interest I will also post some of my thoughts with regards to the assignment.

Summary: Magdalene (Lena) and Botho meet and start doing the 19th century version of dating (meeting the guardian, taking walks, with supervision). She is a seamstress, or something of the sort, in her early twenties (if I remember correctly). Botho, on occasion, refers to her as his ''little democrat'', indication that she might to a certain degree represent the democratic movement of the eighteen hundreds.

Botho is a member of the nobility, and is (if I remember correctly) somewhat older than Lena. He seems to me like a rather meek individual, and does not protest when, in the beginning of their relationship, Lena nags about how their relationship will not last. His family is lacking money and halfway through the book he is, for financial reasons, 'forced' to marry a girl of his mothers choosing. One of good family. I say 'forced' because Botho could have stood up against his family, but he buckled under the combined force of his kin's wishes and Lena's readiness to give him up (at one point she all but throws him out of the house).

Keeping it short, Botho marries the wealthy girl. Lena, after a time of grieving, marries a decent doing factory owner, Gideon Franke. When, at the end of the book Botho's wife comments on the funny names in the marriage announcements in the paper: (top of my head translation) ''[...]Gideon Franke, factory owner, and Magdalena Franke, borne Nimptsch''. Botho replies:''What do you have against Gideon, Käthe? Gideon is better than Botho.''

A seemingly innocent remark, but with potential for some interpretation.

I will post more later.
Thanks in advance
- Ahkailon

TLDR; Irrungen, Wirrungen by Theodor Fontane. I need help with my exam paper! Would you be so kind?

P.S: My sincere apologies for textwalling you so brutally.

[Emil Miller]

Hello! I've been lurking in the shadows for some time now, reading posts, but never managing to get as far as registering to chime in with my opinion. Now though, I have finally decided to make an account on the forums. ''What brought this on?'' you might, rightfully, be asking. It is, my dear man/lady/omnipotent entity, a most embarrassing matter. You see, I need help.

I do realize (from my time lurking in the murky forum waters) that asking for help with the writing of assignments is something that is frowned upon, but I was hoping that you would forgive my transgression and show compassion towards a student in distress.

To the point:
I am writing an assignment in two parts for my German class (German literature and culture), and the second part is the one troubling me.

It pertains to the book ''Irrungen, Wirrungen'' (1888), by Theodor Fontane, and it asks me to interpret the relationship between the main characters, Magdalene Nimptsch and Botho von Reinecker, and how this relationship is portrayed in the book. This is to be done in the context of the last sentence of the book: ''Gideon ist besser als Botho'' (eng.trans: Gideon is better than Botho).

Now, I do have some ideas, but I really cant seem to get a proper train of thought going, and would greatly appreciate any ideas you could add. Following now is a brief summary of the main casts relationship (to freshen up your mind if it is a long time since you read the book). If there is interest I will also post some of my thoughts with regards to the assignment.

Summary: Magdalene (Lena) and Botho meet and start doing the 19th century version of dating (meeting the guardian, taking walks, with supervision). She is a seamstress, or something of the sort, in her early twenties (if I remember correctly). Botho, on occasion, refers to her as his ''little democrat'', indication that she might to a certain degree represent the democratic movement of the eighteen hundreds.

Botho is a member of the nobility, and is (if I remember correctly) somewhat older than Lena. He seems to me like a rather meek individual, and does not protest when, in the beginning of their relationship, Lena nags about how their relationship will not last. His family is lacking money and halfway through the book he is, for financial reasons, 'forced' to marry a girl of his mothers choosing. One of good family. I say 'forced' because Botho could have stood up against his family, but he buckled under the combined force of his kin's wishes and Lena's readiness to give him up (at one point she all but throws him out of the house).

Keeping it short, Botho marries the wealthy girl. Lena, after a time of grieving, marries a decent doing factory owner, Gideon Franke. When, at the end of the book Botho's wife comments on the funny names in the marriage announcements in the paper: (top of my head translation) ''[...]Gideon Franke, factory owner, and Magdalena Franke, borne Nimptsch''. Botho replies:''What do you have against Gideon, Käthe? Gideon is better than Botho.''

A seemingly innocent remark, but with potential for some interpretation.

I will post more later.
Thanks in advance
- Ahkailon

TLDR; Irrungen, Wirrungen by Theodor Fontane. I need help with my exam paper! Would you be so kind?

P.S: My sincere apologies for textwalling you so brutally.

It is years since I read the book and I couldn't recall the details until I read your summary. I think the reference that "Gideon ist besser als Botho." Refers to the fact that Baron Botho had given up the love of his life because of the class divide but Gideon hadn't let it stop him from marrying Lene and, therefore, he was the better man.

[Ahkailon]

It is years since I read the book and I couldn't recall the details until I read your summary. I think the reference that "Gideon ist besser als Botho." Refers to the fact that Baron Botho had given up the love of his life because of the class divide but Gideon hadn't let it stop him from marrying Lene and, therefore, he was the better man.

Yes. I agree with you on this and have thought about it too, but it strikes me as more of an analysis of Botho as a person, and while that may be interesting I would like to be more focused on their relationship. I've tossed a few ideas down in a document. I'll post them here and if you have any additional thoughts I'd love to hear them.

Firstly there is of course the thing you mention, regarding Botho giving up and generally being weak and not standing up for his woman and against his family.

Secondly, and maybe somewhat far fetched: Does Botho look at the relationship as a competition? Is Gideon a better man because he succeeded with Lena while Botho himself failed? Seems slightly out of character for him, but then again I might have missed something in the book.

Lastly: More pertaining to Lena's point of view. She made no secret of the fact that she didn't think their relationship was going to last, and she drives Botho quite actively away. Could it be that she thinks of herself as not good enough for him? Or does she love him to much to force him to choose between her and his family? And by that logic: When Gideon isn't as good as Botho, and their relationship pose less trouble, it is easier for her to be with him.

I find that I rather like the latter idea, though it might require that one reads the last sentence of the book somewhat ironically (Botho is better than Gideon, and therefore she can be with him).

Suggestions?

[Emil Miller]

Yes. I agree with you on this and have thought about it too, but it strikes me as more of an analysis of Botho as a person, and while that may be interesting I would like to be more focused on their relationship. I've tossed a few ideas down in a document. I'll post them here and if you have any additional thoughts I'd love to hear them.

Firstly there is of course the thing you mention, regarding Botho giving up and generally being weak and not standing up for his woman and against his family.

Secondly, and maybe somewhat far fetched: Does Botho look at the relationship as a competition? Is Gideon a better man because he succeeded with Lena while Botho himself failed? Seems slightly out of character for him, but then again I might have missed something in the book.

Lastly: More pertaining to Lena's point of view. She made no secret of the fact that she didn't think their relationship was going to last, and she drives Botho quite actively away. Could it be that she thinks of herself as not good enough for him? Or does she love him to much to force him to choose between her and his family? And by that logic: When Gideon isn't as good as Botho, and their relationship pose less trouble, it is easier for her to be with him.

I find that I rather like the latter idea, though it might require that one reads the last sentence of the book somewhat ironically (Botho is better than Gideon, and therefore she can be with him).

Suggestions?


I have had to check through the book and I don't think that Lene or Botho gave each other up, but right from the start they knew that their relationship was doomed and they wanted to hold onto it for as long as they could.The circumstances of the time simply wouldn't allow them to marry but, although they both subsequently married other spouses, they never stopped loving each other. The last sentence of the book is very sad and has a twofold meaning. First it means that Gideon was more suited to Lene by virtue of his artisan background and secondly that he married Lene despite her lower class upbringing with her stepmother.

I have extracted this short revue of the novel from the net; it neatly sums up the situation.

Eine Kahnpartie hat sie zusammengeführt, Lene Nimptsch, die Plätterin aus der Berliner Vorstadt, und Baron Botho von Rienäcker. Ihr Verhältnis ist von der Art, "dass Knüpfen und Lösen sozusagen in dieselbe Stunde fällt." Kein tragisches, aber das bittere Ende einer großen Liebe, die in beiden fortlebt.
Sehr schönes, unterhaltsames Zeitgemälde aus dem Berlin Ende des neunzehnten Jahrhunderts.