Ashes To Ashes (Pompeii/Hiroshima)

[hillwalker]

ASHES TO ASHES

I [Pompeii]

Raddled with wine I stagger home, each step less sure;
the vibrant sound of Vulcanalia expands
and echoes off the tilting walls and heaving floor.

Outside the House of Fauns the brothel-keeper stands
watching mottled moon flame red across the sea;
the wrath of Jove a haemorrhage upon our lands.

My sight adrift, seeks flight, in panic, for Capri;
that sacred haven on blue Sorrento bay,
while dusk invades in ranks of cloud from Napoli.

The cateyes in the cobbles barely light the way;
oil lamps sputter, wind chimes frenzied in the breeze.
I touch the phallus set in stone and stoop to pray.

The stir of crickets threshing in the olive trees
too strident. I draw the drapes. In looming dark,
a broth of coiling fireglow flares across the frieze.

The rattle of the dog chains stilled; no howl, no bark;
in my corner, bowels voided, crouching low;
outside the world grows calloused, Pluto makes his mark.

My prayers snuffed out, remorse abandoned long ago,
my body lies oblivious, enshrouded;
eyes drowned in blossom, endless flakes of endless snow.



II [Hiroshima]

Monday August 6
1945 a d
8:15 a.m.

A bright new week
white blouse washed and pressed for school
birdsong on the breeze

Roll call and sirens
stifled thunder cracks the walls
we all rush outside

A death rose blooms high
hushed shadows then blaring heat
then hollowed silence

The world fills with white
blizzards of cherry blossom
drifting still drifting

My sandals melting
oleanders reaching out
withered and blooming

My hair band slips off
a white smile fringed with cropped hair
my scalp still attached

Kyoko burnt black
I search for her red barrette
then her eyes open

In class we drew cranes
white birds like folded paper
now wingless and scorched

My frayed handkerchief
holds two embroidered goldfish
red braids coiled in white

[milktea]

This is too good. I... can't comment on this post; it has rendered me aposiopetic. Sorry and thank you for sharing this amazing piece.

[hillwalker]

I sincerely hope your being struck silent is temporary..... and I am similarly struck dumb by your response.

The second part is my first feeble attempt at haiku and I was so anxious not to trample such a delicate form underfoot with my size-9 boots.

Thanks indeed for your comments.

H

[PrinceMyshkin]

It feels almost sacreligious to select just one line or image from these two equally inspired halves of these book-ended events, but this:


ASHES TO ASHES

My hair band slips off
a white smile fringed with cropped hair
my scalp still attached


raised the hair at the back of my neck. The whole of this is pure poetic and humane genius.

[hillwalker]

Thank you Prince - I was hoping this particularly horrific image was not too 'over-the-top'.

You are extremely generous with your praise.

[Virgil]

Are they separate poems? I don't really see the connection other than the ash. I think the Hiroshima poem is good. I for one prefer the moment of calm reflection after the horror:


In class we drew cranes
white birds like folded paper
now wingless and scorched

[hillwalker]

Thanks Virgil for your response.

They can work as separate poems undoubtedly - but I was looking for comparisons and contrasts between the aftermath of Veuvius destroying Pompeii and the atomic bomb Hiroshima. So I thought these two could stand by side as a bookended pair (sharing the same title).

H

[PrinceMyshkin]

Thanks Virgil for your response.

They can work as separate poems undoubtedly - but I was looking for comparisons and contrasts between the aftermath of Veuvius destroying Pompeii and the atomic bomb Hiroshima. So I thought these two could stand by side as a bookended pair (sharing the same title).

H

Yes, they could indeed work as separate poems, each a stylistic high accomplishment in its own style, but to me they have at very least a relationship of scale.

I saw an element of genius the moment I saw the title. I did not anticipate any moral linkage between the two (simple or divine nature vs human nature) and indeed found nothing of the latter in the Hiroshima portion of the poem.

If I'd written the first part of this, I might have been tempted to continue in the high, stately diction of part one; your switch from that to the very credible vernacular of a (teen-age?) child struck me as very effective.

[milktea]

I sincerely hope your being struck silent is temporary..... and I am similarly struck dumb by your response.

The second part is my first feeble attempt at haiku and I was so anxious not to trample such a delicate form underfoot with my size-9 boots.

Thanks indeed for your comments.

H

Not really, unfortunately. Whatever I say will be gush >_<

To me this is a comparison so perfect it's bloody near sublime. It was as if I was there. The helplessness, hopelessness, confusion, you depict this so clearly it is as if I was there witnessing these catastrophes, suffering them... This is a poem of terrible beauty. Thank you for sharing it.

[PrinceMyshkin]

At the risk of monopolizing the responses here, may I add that notwithstanding my admiration for the poem as I read it, I utterly failed to see that part 2 was a string of haiku, which is to say, at minimum, that they were so unstrained that I read them as 'mere,' natural three-line verses.

[hillwalker]

@Prince, how could you..... you only get half the points on offer I'm afraid.

The first part is written in terza rima - the same verse form Dante used for his 'Inferno' etc.

I thought it apt to use an Italianate style for Pompeii and a Japanese one for Hiroshima - and was also struck that the exact time and date of the dropping of the first atomic bomb can be written in the form of a haiku!

@milktea - thanks again for your generous praise

[hack]

This is truly amazing hill.
You have a great talent.

[MorpheusSandman]

Both of these are two of the best poems I have ever read on here. Hell, I think they're two of the best I've ever read of this type PERIOD. The vividness you render these in is startling and I sympathize with milktea's aposiopesis. Both actually remind me of my double sonnet of the Hiroshima tragedy. Though, quite frankly, yours is infinitely better. Somehow you've imbued your words with a paradoxical immediate concreteness and transcendental abstractness. This is really a perfect fusion of form and content, symbol and signified. Just too good for words, really, hill. I'm afraid anything else I read to day will pale in comparison. Hell, these are the type of poems that are so good they simultaneously inspire me to do better and make me want to give up because I know I couldn't write like that!

[Virgil]

I must be an outlier in this. Perhaps I'm the only one here who has only qualified appreciation for the poems. I grant you they are vivid and have a few good lines in them, but let me explain my qualms.

First, I really don't see the connection between the two events. One is a natural catastrophe and the other is a human generated event of castrophic proportions. What seems to connect the two is the horror. But if one is after human horror, then two events are not aesthetically sufficient. Two events suggest commonality. If one is after the the horrors of human life in general, a list of disaparte horrors would be required.

Second, what the author seems after is sensationalism. He details the horrors but there is no philosophic processing of the events. All I get is "life sucks when this happens." Ok, it happens. I do think the second poem is far superior to the first. That stanza I quoted attempts to filter the event without sensationalizing. In the first poem all I see is sensationalism. Look at the closing stanza:


My prayers snuffed out, remorse abandoned long ago,
my body lies oblivious, enshrouded;
eyes drowned in blossom, endless flakes of endless snow.

"prayers snffed out," "remorse abandoned," "my body lies oblivious" these are the phrases of horror shows and sensationalism as well as cliches. Which brings it back to my first point. The point of setting these pieces side by side is not some profound meaning but after a sensationalistic response.

[MorpheusSandman]

Perhaps I'm the only one here who has only qualified appreciation for the poems.Hmmm? What do you mean by "qualified appreciation"?


First, I really don't see the connection between the two events. One is a natural catastrophe and the other is a human generated event of castrophic proportions. What seems to connect the two is the horror. But if one is after human horror, then two events are not aesthetically sufficient. Two events suggest commonality. If one is after the the horrors of human life in general, a list of disaparte horrors would be required.I hope this board isn't getting sick of me bringing in film metaphors (if someone is, just let me know and I'll stop), but it's ironic you should bring this up since I saw a film last night called Werckmeister Harmonies that deals with this very theme, of "man-made" VS "natural" (in a lot of arenas, including catastrophes). I think the central thesis of the film (though many could be suggested) is that the distinction is largely arbitrary. Man are a part of nature and even though we order and can effect that nature is it distinctly opposed to that nature? Two metaphors in the film are those of the Werckmeister's harmonies which "artificially" organized the natural harmonic language (the other metaphor is much longer and involved, so I'll skip it).

The commonality may be suffering, and while the causes seem distinctly different - natural chaos VS man-made will - I think that ignores the underlying similarities.


Second, what the author seems after is sensationalism. He details the horrors but there is no philosophic processing of the events. All I get is "life sucks when this happens."I think it's less about the suffering itself and more about the realistic, palpable rendering of it. If you can make a reader feel, even remotely, what you're describing then it's an achievement. I very much did.

[PrinceMyshkin]

what the author seems after is sensationalism. He details the horrors but there is no philosophic processing of the events. All I get is "life sucks when this happens." Ok, it happens. I do think the second poem is far superior to the first. That stanza I quoted attempts to filter the event without sensationalizing. In the first poem all I see is sensationalism.

Insofar as "sensationalism" indicates a heightening of the grotesque details of an event or events, it is a deservedly pejorative term, but can or should one ignore the inherently sensational aspects of either Pompeii or Hiroshima? And if one were to imagine history spatially rather than temporally, as something like a papier mache map, surely the magnitude of these events would stand high above the others and bring them jointly to our attention at once?

The art and decorum in each of these parts absolves the whole in my opinion from an accusation of being sensationalist either separately or together. Yes, it is hard to see how they belong together but poetry is often about the juxtaposition of events or insights that don't usually appear to belong together. If these two did not belong together before Hillwalker placed them together, well, now they do.

Did God create the one catastrophe and man the other? Then we may ask whether God and man share this characteristic, the ability to wreak havoc. Or we may say instead, thus far does the meaning of destiny elude us, that these two apparently disparate events happened and are somehow linked.

[hillwalker]

@hack, Morpheus tulip and Prince – many thanks for your words of praise, you are too kind

@Virgil – so good of you to comment on my poem since you rarely grace this forum with your insights. I wonder what prompted you to post - not once but twice – perhaps I have touched a nerve.

I was told to ‘never explain’ but in this instance since you have taken such trouble to crit my poem I feel obliged to respond in kind.


First, I really don't see the connection between the two events.

As posted earlier I did not intend to suggest the two events were connected – I merely wished to compare and contrast.
Pompeii and Hiroshima were both major seaports, destroyed in a sudden and horrific manner with the image of burial by ash being the common factor when we picture them in our minds.

As for the contrasts.
Pompeii had a reputation as a place of debauchery; a red-light district encompassing the entire city. When it was discovered in 1599 many Christian historians concluded the eruption and subsequent burial of the city was a demonstration of the wrath of God – divine judgement upon such rampant immorality.
Hiroshima, on the other hand, was one of two cities chosen by the allies as targets for two atomic bombs. It was hoped this demonstration of overwhelming superiority would bring an end to Japanese imperialism which was threatening to needlessly prolong the Second World War. And of course it worked.

These are the facts – but none of them are included within the poem nor do I make any judgements, question the ethics or promote any personal opinions I may have.


What seems to connect the two is the horror. But if one is after human horror, then two events are not aesthetically sufficient.

I would suggest that what connects the two is humanity not horror.

The drunkard in Pompeii, returning home after a day celebrating the festival of Vulcanalia, falling victim to an ensuing cloud of red-hot ash which engulfed the city. He seeks shelter inside his house, prays to his pagan gods and succumbs.

The school girl going about her normal day-to-day activities suddenly witnesses the atomic explosion nearby, its after-effects are all around her but all she can focus on is her friend’s red hair-band that she covets, and perhaps can finally steal.

Oh, and by the way, on the back of your first post. The final two haiku are unfortunately not the 'calm reflection after the horror'. In this girl's case there is no after – she is merely left with two distinct memories of folded paper cranes (a Japanese symbol for prayers for peace) and her handkerchief (returning to the red and white motif – also mirrored in the ‘raddled’ face of the drunkard and the ‘endless snow’ in part I).


he details the horrors

The list at my disposal was endless – I have merely hand-picked a few, couched in the least emotive terms possible whilst hoping for some empathy from the reader. And there is far less horror detailed in part I anyway (the bit you find least palatable) so I fail to understand your logic.


what the author seems after is sensationalism

It is laughable that you are so wide of the mark. The subject matter is indeed sensational but I have framed both events in as unsensational a way as possible. Neither of the characters implore pity. Neither express your “life sucks when this happens” mantra. I really fail to see how you pick up this strange vibe from this poem.
And to reply to your dislike for the closing stanza in part I :
Here is a pathetic drunkard on his knees praying to his gods to be merciful to him – he is literally suffocating as the air is depleted by the cloud of red-hot ash – and eventually he becomes buried and preserved in a layer of pumice (already dead, but frozen in place – on his knees with his hands raised in supplication). A cliché – of course. And we’ve all seen the photographs.

Sensationalism? No. Profound meaning? Again no, just observation.

The sensationalistic response is entirely of your own making and I object to the fatuous observation that ‘what the author is after is sentationalism’. Criticise the standard or subject matter of my writing all you wish, but I will not condone anyone who attempts to second-guess my motivation for writing and make such an absolute hash of it.

One fascinating observation I do have is that in Italy the ‘plaster-cast’ remains of those who died in Pompeii are widely put on show like some grotesque museum tableau – so much for respecting the dead. Indeed the eruption and consequential destruction of the city has proved to be a huge tourist draw.

In contrast the legacy of the Hiroshima bombing in Japan has been swept under the carpet almost. Apart from the park marking ‘ground zero’ there has been almost no cultural or literary reference to the event until 2004 when a one-volume manga comic based on Hiroshima’s history was published – ‘Town of Evening Calm (Yunagi no Machi), Country of Cherry Blossoms (Sakura no Kuni).’ It gained world-wide renown at the time – a white hair-band and a red hair-band play prominent roles in the story. It was later made into a live-action film – but the director (Kiyoshi Sasae) stipulated at the time of its release that it might never be released in the USA as it would be too explicit or too offensive for American audiences.

For the record Japan has never condemned the USA for dropping the atomic bomb and indeed embraces everything American with enthusiasm. But Japan is still very sensitive to the attitude the US has for it, hence its reluctance to allow this movie to be seen outside Japan itself. I found this situation difficult to understand at first, but after today perhaps it does make sense.

Apologies to those unaccustomed to such ravings within this forum..... sometimes one has to set the record straight.

[qimissung]

Really, for them to show the movies here would not be problematic, I assure you.

[hillwalker]

I agree - but it just shows the mindset of the Japanese. That they still feel such dishonour for what led to the use of the atomic bomb against their country that they cannot tolerate anything that might suggest they feel it was unwarranted.

[Virgil]

@Virgil – so good of you to comment on my poem since you rarely grace this forum with your insights. I wonder what prompted you to post - not once but twice – perhaps I have touched a nerve.

I rarely post? If you look carefully I have the most posts of anyone on lit net. The poetry forum? Perhaps I haven't been here much lately (frankly I get bored with a lot of these poems by people who are just starting to write poetry) but I used to be a staple here, and I'm probably the only person who gives real criticism, not just that "oh how wonderful your poem is" crap that everyone seems to give.


I was told to ‘never explain’ but in this instance since you have taken such trouble to crit my poem I feel obliged to respond in kind.
Don't explain, because it doesn't matter. The poem will speak for itself not matter what the author thinks.


I would suggest that what connects the two is humanity not horror.
When presenting a justiposition of two disparate things, their distinction will overwhelm whatever commonality they might have. You have to have more than two in order to establish a trend. Three points define a line.


Oh, and by the way, on the back of your first post. The final two haiku are unfortunately not the 'calm reflection after the horror'. In this girl's case there is no after – she is merely left with two distinct memories of folded paper cranes (a Japanese symbol for prayers for peace) and her handkerchief (returning to the red and white motif – also mirrored in the ‘raddled’ face of the drunkard and the ‘endless snow’ in part I).
Huh? Memory is reflection.


It is laughable that you are so wide of the mark. The subject matter is indeed sensational but I have framed both events in as unsensational a way as possible.
Well then you can't distinguish sensationalism.


Raddled with wine I stagger home, each step less sure;

the wrath of Jove a haemorrhage upon our lands

My sight adrift, seeks flight, in panic, for Capri

bowels voided

outside the world grows calloused

My sandals melting

my scalp still attached

Kyoko burnt black
Some of it is justified, but when all the writer aims for is the horror, then it's sensationalism.


Neither of the characters implore pity. Neither express your “life sucks when this happens” mantra. I really fail to see how you pick up this strange vibe from this poem.
Whoa, you don't even know your own poems.

"outside the world grows calloused"

"My prayers snuffed out, remorse abandoned long ago,
my body lies oblivious,"

And the "A bright new week" beginning in the second poem serves as an ironic appeal to pity when we get to the conclusion.

Sorry but these poems are sensationalistic and an appeal to pity.



And to reply to your dislike for the closing stanza in part I :
Here is a pathetic drunkard on his knees praying to his gods to be merciful to him – he is literally suffocating as the air is depleted by the cloud of red-hot ash – and eventually he becomes buried and preserved in a layer of pumice (already dead, but frozen in place – on his knees with his hands raised in supplication). A cliché – of course. And we’ve all seen the photographs.
What does the word "pathetic" mean? It means pitayable. Whatever it is, it's also an appeal to pity:


An appeal to pity (also called argumentum ad misericordiam) is a fallacy in which someone tries to win support for an argument or idea by exploiting her or his opponent's feelings of pity or guilt. The appeal to pity is a specific kind of appeal to emotion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_pity


Sensationalism? No. Profound meaning? Again no, just observation.
Ok.


The sensationalistic response is entirely of your own making and I object to the fatuous observation that ‘what the author is after is sentationalism’. Criticise the standard or subject matter of my writing all you wish, but I will not condone anyone who attempts to second-guess my motivation for writing and make such an absolute hash of it.
Touchy, touchy, touchy. If you can't take criticism, you shouldn't post your poems for comment. I will from here on after never comment on your poems again. If you think that only listening to oohs and ahhhs makes you a better poet, you will never be a poet.


For the record Japan has never condemned the USA for dropping the atomic bomb and indeed embraces everything American with enthusiasm. But Japan is still very sensitive to the attitude the US has for it, hence its reluctance to allow this movie to be seen outside Japan itself. I found this situation difficult to understand at first, but after today perhaps it does make sense.
I have no idea where that is coming from. I didn't see it in the poem at all. If you wish to write a poem about the moral condemnation of the US in dropping the atomic bomb, I couldn't care less. The justification of the act has nothing to do with your opinion.


Apologies to those unaccustomed to such ravings within this forum..... sometimes one has to set the record straight.
Good for you. Toodles.

[qimissung]

I liked both poems, and I think they do well as bookends, but it is the second one that touches my heart. Well done, hillwalker, you walk lightly without disturbing the ashes.

[hillwalker]

Thanks qimissung - if I am permitted to acknowledge that someone appreciated what I wrote.

Virgil - I was objecting to your attempt to tell me what motivated me to write this poem.

What pity you see is not pity resulting from the aftermath of the events described. I was hardly trying to get my audience to empathise with a drunkard. It was a factual demonstration of someone returning home from a night on the tiles.

And I embrace criticism of my technique and style - but not of my motivation.

Your decision not to comment on any of my future poems is to be applauded.

[Dodo25]

I hardly ever read poetry. In fact I have never bothered to go through the poetry section here at all. I think most poetry is boring, I'm more into song lyrics..

When I was scrolling down the topic, I was intrigued by the title and decided to give it a look. When I saw the subtitles, I knew I had to read it. I have read accounts of both tragedies, and I think you have presented them in an epic way. I just love the subject and the perspectives you chose.

[Jesterhead]

I think they were both very enjoyable poems, but the second one was more describtive in its imagery to me that is. Nicely done.

[Alexander III]

Dam, Im gonna be blunt, this poem is one of the best I have seen on the forums. The pompey one, was especially talented. I don't have anything else to say, im a terrible critic.

[hillwalker]

@Dodo25, Jesterhead and AlexanderIII - thanks for your vote of confidence, it is much appreciated.

I'm pleased you all found something to enjoy in the poem. Thanks again.

[Hawkman]

Hi hill,

Well, I've just got back so I'm comming to this cold. I have given this poem some serious thought and of the two I think the second is the strongest. I particularly like the way you have presented it. However, I think you could safely dispence with s2 and s3.

There are a couple of reasons for this. The first is accuracy. When the bomb was dropped, there were no sirens. The Americans had carefully acclimatised the Japanese to the appearance of lone B29's which routinely made recce flights over the target area. As they dropped no bombs the arrival of Enola Gay triggered no alarm. What happened next, did so completely without warning.

The description by the narrator does not ring true either. The first effect of the nuclear bomb was the blinding flash, brighter than the sun. Next comes the heat blast instantaneously raising the temperature to 5000 deg. C. Then the Blast. Everything, except the observatory was flattened to a range of about 1.5 KM. Then there were the fires. Of course people survived outside the immediate ground zero, with varying degrees of injury depending on circumstances.

Secondly, and more importantly, poetically, the contrast between the first stanza the beinning of the week, clean blouse etc. and then going straight to the cherry blossom, or preferrably to the sandles melting, is far more dramatic, shocking and poignent.

The thing which strikes me about the two events is the contrast. Pompeii had plenty of warning, earth tremours, even the early stages of the eruption, which were ignored. Hiroshima had no warning at all.

The human cost of both events was catastrophic.

I think what you have attempted here is brave and daring, though not necessarily 100% successful - but definitely worth the read. You are an outstanding poet in my view. best, H.

[hillwalker]

Thanks Hawk,

I shall take your suggestions very seriously as my exact knowledge of the events leading up to Hiroshima is cursory. I believe the Americans leafleted the intended drop zone in advance and some people were able to be evacuated (?) but obviously they were in the minority.

Most responders seem to prefer the haiku section, and to be quite honest I found this second section much easier to write than the first - which is more formal and relies on a strict rhyming scheme (not one of my strengths I'll admit).

But your intelligent response is very much appreciated, thanks.

H

[MorpheusSandman]

I'm probably the only person who gives real criticism, O'rly?

Usually I immensely appreciate your (rather scarce, recently) presence in these forums, Virgil, but I'm with hill in that you're way off with this one. I think hill is right to take a bit of offense at criticism that aims to inform him of his own motivation. It's one thing to analyze a poem and put forth such a theory, but I think you were a little bit too assured with how you went about it here.

[hack]

I have only been on this site for about six months
but I think that this is probably the best thing I have
read here...peace...thanks again for posting this

[lallison]

I recently read the book "Hiroshima" by John Hirsey. To anyone who's never read it, I'd highly recommend it. It's a journalistic account that follows the lives of a few Hiroshima bomb survivors. It tells of their experiences immediately before and after the bomb and then follows their lives for years and decades afterward. For anyone interested in what truly happened in Hiroshima that day, this book is a must read.

So having just finished the definitive descriptive work on the subject, I'm going to have to throw in my lot with Virgil. This was a very moving poem, and a well written one. It certainly made me shudder. But as a descriptive work, it just couldn't touch me in the same way the book did.

Mainly, this is to strike a healthy balance to the deserving praise that has been heaped upon your eloquent poem. Although I enjoyed reading it, I didn't feel it said anything new.

[hillwalker]

@morpheus, hack and lallison - thanks for your responses.

I welcome balanced judgement and am pleased that you each found something to sayabout the poem itself rather than the writer.

lallison - I accept your reasoning for feeling this poem does not paint a fresh picture of Hiroshima. You are right, and I am happy that at least you were able to explain these reservations.
Perhaps I was aiming more for the minutiae of the two days from the POV of two individuals caught up in the events rather than the bigger picture.
Thanks again.

H

[blank|verse]

These are rubbish – there's no mention at all of Gene Hunt or his lovely Quattro, or the even more lovely Keeley Hawes!! (And I realise that's going to mean nothing to our friends on the other side of the pond!)

I'm joking of course (hilarious, I know). These are very accomplished pieces, hillwalker, and you can sense the time and crafting that has gone into them. Both are great achievements and enjoyable to read.

Interestingly, both are tragic events: the first of natural causes which could remind the reader of Greek tragedy and the pity of life; the second is one of the most extreme examples of human brutality and therefore writing a poem based on such events is always going to have an inescapable element of 'worthiness' and sentimentalism (particularly with characterisation like that used here). I disagree either poem is 'sensationalist', though.

Anyway, here are some thoughts about the poetry…

Pompeii

Written in terza rima but with lines 1 and 3 of each stanza in iambic hexameter, and line 2 hendecasyllabic pentameter. This variation on the usual format disrupts the regularity of the stanzas.

There's a bit too much careful description of things rather than outbursts of inner emotions and feelings, which take precedence is moments of 'fight or flight'. Indeed, you have to 'tell' the reader the narrator is 'in panic' (line 7) rather than 'showing' us that panic effectively.

The natural flow and rhythm of the form isn't strongly utilized – there's too much punctuation throughout which slows the reader. And I found this phrase odd and slow to read:

watching mottled moon flame red across the sea;
there are lots of strong-stressed words one after the other; and without the definite article before 'mottled' it reads as if 'moon flame' is a compound noun. This works, but demands a lot from the reader to work it out. Either way, as it stands it reads as incongruously GM Hopkins-esque!

Still, this is my preference of the two poems.

Hiroshima

The problem with choosing haikus for a narrative is that they are really intended for the opposite purpose: to capture a moment of stasis and frame the image for the reader. Here, this is effectively what you're doing as each stanza has a different subject and there is no enjambment between stanzas, and little (any?) within stanzas. Therefore, like the first poem, the narrative suffers as it is slow and gains no momentum at a time of heightened panic. In both cases, it leaves them feeling a bit clinical; lacking real human emotion.

And that's my main issue, with your dramatic choice of the first-person young girl narrator. Her shoes start 'melting': her reaction is to look at flowers. HER SCALP COMES OFF and her reaction is to notice how it looks LIKE A SMILE (how pretty!); HER FRIEND IS LYING 'BURNT BLACK' SEEMINGLY DEAD, THEN HER EYES OPEN… her reaction is to THINK OF THOSE NICE PICTURES OF BIRDS THEY DREW IN SCHOOL! And at no time is her reaction to any of this: 'AAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!!!! or AAAAAARRRGGGGIIIIIIHHHHHHHIIIIIII!!!!!!!!!!!!!' (Apologies for the capitals, but you get the idea.)

I was reminded of that famous photo from the Vietnam war, in which a young girl is running, naked, towards the camera, her back burning from napalm. It could be me, but I'm fairly sure she's not thinking of art lessons or the local flora at that precise moment.

Form in poetry is very artful and deliberate, suggesting making order out of the chaos of life. With this poem's subject, it is clear chaos rules; perhaps this could have been reflected in the form of the poem by breaking from the meticulous order of the haikus, particularly as it's written in the first person.

That said, I thought the symbolism of this final stanza was exceptional and was my favourite moment of both poems:

My frayed handkerchief
holds two embroidered goldfish
red braids coiled in white
Overall, these are remarkable poems hillwalker, and I'd echo other comments praising them as being among the better poems posted on the forum.

Cheers,
b|v

[hillwalker]

I'm touched that you have taken the trouble to comment in such detail here bv.

The terza rima form was totally alien territory for me (as no doubt you guessed) and I felt as uncomfortable writing it as it often reads. I did toy with the idea of each triplet having lines of the same length but in the end had to give up. And yes, there was some work involved in their shaping.

The haiku I found much easier to compose. But even then I was conscious of how the form is meant to reflect 'moments in time' rather than tell a story. That is partly why it reads very much like a string of non sequiturs.
Hawkman suggested discarding verses 3 and 4 and I think he has a valid point - which would make my use of haiku to 'narrate' the 'story' less conspicuous.
Certainly towards the end each separate verse is meant to be a snapshot and so I feel the form is appropriate. Indeed, the last two are drawn as memories the girl might have had as her life is fading.

And I do accept your criticism that her instinct would be to run. But I have actually based some of the imagery on the graphic novel mentioned aeons earlier in this thread - that's my story so I'm sticking to it.....

Finally, I am particularly pleased you enjoyed the last haiku as I feel so much of the themes and imagery hinge on that handkerchief for some reason.

Thanks again bv. Your words of wisdom never go to waste - even when I completely ignore them!!!!

[blank|verse]

Thanks again bv. Your words of wisdom never go to waste - even when I completely ignore them!!!!
Don't worry, I'm used to it... :nopity:
Thanks again, hillwalker.

[Hawkman]

And that's my main issue, with your dramatic choice of the first-person young girl narrator. Her shoes start 'melting': her reaction is to look at flowers. HER SCALP COMES OFF and her reaction is to notice how it looks LIKE A SMILE (how pretty!); HER FRIEND IS LYING 'BURNT BLACK' SEEMINGLY DEAD, THEN HER EYES OPEN… her reaction is to THINK OF THOSE NICE PICTURES OF BIRDS THEY DREW IN SCHOOL! And at no time is her reaction to any of this: 'AAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!!!! or AAAAAARRRGGGGIIIIIIHHHHHHHIIIIIII!!!!!!!!!!!!!' (Apologies for the capitals, but you get the idea.)



I feel prompted to defend hill's reflective moments here B/V. The reaction to significant trauma is not always to scream with pain. In deep shock, the mind can drift, focus on inconsequencialities, distractions, anything to avoid dealing with the horror. It's called a Fuge state I beleive.

Best H

[Bar22do]

more when I'm able (for the time being, days don't permit the leisure of lingering over art, to my regret): I absolutely loved your two poems, loved both very differently. all my admiration goes to you hill. Bar

[hillwalker]

Thanks again Hawk - and Bar.

My next one will be very much on the lighter side.

[PrinceMyshkin]

My next one will be very much on the lighter side.

That is to say, in your Hawkmanian mode?