Icebox by Mark Bastable

[Scheherazade]

Please post your comments on Icebox (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Icebox-Mark-Bastable/dp/0747268398) by Mark Bastable in this thread.

An introduction by the author himself:
I wrote Icebox nearly fifteen years ago. It was the second novel that I’d written, and the first to get published – in 1999.

It’s difficult to introduce it now, because from this distance it appears to me to have separated out into two parts, like salad dressing. I can see the obviously good bits and the obviously not-so-good bits quite distinctly. I need to shake it up in my mind again so that I can see it as a consistent whole.

So as a few curious Litnetters are reading it, I’ll read it too. I think I know what to expect, but I might be surprised. In either case, I don’t want to prejudice anyone else’s experience by saying what I’d imagine will come over well and what won’t.

I’ll pass on some factual stuff though, to give it context – although I hope none is necessary. My feeling is that everything a reader needs ought to be there between the covers.

I wrote Icebox in the evenings when I was working in Amsterdam. I had an apartment overlooking a canal, and I’d sit there at my desk by the window as tourists went past in glass-topped boats outside. They’d wave at me and I’d wave back. I used to wonder whether the guide had incorporated me into his spiel. “On the right we have a typical mediaeval house. Note the stepped gable, the hook at the top for winching furniture into the windows, and, on the second floor, the Englishman with the three-day stubble and two bottles of Pinot.”

The theme for the book had been percolating in my head for a year or two – which isn’t long, for me. I’d been reading a lot of books about cutting edge science, particularly cryonic suspension. Apparently it’s wildly expensive to have yourself frozen after your death, and that struck me as the ultimate deferred gratification – to work your whole life to earn a longshot at a second one.

And once I started along that path of speculation, all sorts of questions started to occur to me. What would be your motivation for doing that? How would it influence your behaviour in this life? What would your friends think?

So this isn’t science fiction. It’s fiction with some science in it. The science is no more the point of the story than the ball is the point of football.

I’ll be interested to hear what people think, and I’m happy to discuss it. I’m probably more critical of it than most readers, so don’t feel the need to be complimentary– though polite would be nice. I’ll try to answer any question – about the book, the characters, my intentions and approach.

Thanks for taking the time for this exercise. However you may react to the book, that commitment to reading it is a compliment.

If you have not already got a copy, it is available on amazon and at (most) UK libraries.

[prendrelemick]

Finished it last night.

I'll post more when I've had a think. Here are a few first impressions.

The characters are All extra-ordinary.

Its full of very English humour - we love a good farce, we love the wry.

It slowly resolved itself into a page turner.

It didn't achieve that "suspension of disbelief" it was unashamedly fictional.

Was it only 15 years ago you could smoke and no one had a mobile.

Hate the cover - the wife didn't want me to read it in bed because "That thing" was staring at her.

[Scheherazade]

I have read only the 1/10 of the book yet but have to agree with:
Hate the cover - the wife didn't want me to read it in bed because "That thing" was staring at her.It feels so "pop"; almost like a movie poster or a DVD cover.

Has anyone read Great Mambo Chicken and the Transhuman Condition by Ed Regis, which is mentioned in the "Acknowledgements"? (Thank you, by the way, Mark. Know someone who will love this as a birthday gift! :))

At the moment, I am trying to keep up with "who is who"; it feels a little frantic moving from one scene to the next.

I like the humour that is peeping here and there as well, prendrelemick.

[MarkBastable]

Oh, God - there's a poll.

[Scheherazade]

Oh, God - there's a poll.Is that a typo? You meant "Oh, good - there's a poll." right?

And you still haven't voted.


I now have read 1/3 (at the part where Spleen goes to "Movers and Shakers"):

1. How did Spleen manage to get in? Thought it was a "members-only" club. Because he is the landlord?

2. What do you guys think of the name selection? Gabriel, Spleen, Unity etc?

3. Ironic that Don seems so attached to the past while Unity is longing for the future so desperately .

[MarkBastable]

I'll talk about any of these points, as directed - but the question of characters' names is particularly worth pursuing, I think, because it's pertinent to the entire question of the choices a writer makes, and the significance of those choices.

So as soon as I get an hour to myself, I'll come back to that.

[papayahed]

I read the first few pages, I missed a few of the references so i decided to stop until I could get near a computer or dictionary. My first impression is that it's very "English".

[prendrelemick]

I must admit, it was only when I read Ellen's surname right at the end, that I realized the names were not just odd but chosen with care.

[Scheherazade]

Mark> It'd be great to read your comments but please don't feel obliged to either. :)

Prendrelemick> Oh, thanks! Now I just want to go to the last page and find out what her surname is... But... must... resist... the temptation...

Read 2/3 now and finding it hard to put it down; I am like totally hooked!

- There was a time you could cash more than £250 from ATMs (or is this an indicator of my humble worldly riches?)

- Did Gabriel change his clothes and clean himself before leaving the hotel? It is surely impossible that he remained spotless after what he did...

- Initially I was a little put-off by the coincidences but, later on, as they kept happening, I began to enjoy and expect them (look for opportunities for them to happen). They don't seem like a device for author's convenience anymore, somehow.

[MarkBastable]

Mark>

- Did Gabriel change his clothes and clean himself before leaving the hotel? It is surely impossible that he remained spotless after what he did...

- Initially I was a little put-off by the coincidences but, later on, as they kept happening, I began to enjoy and expect them (look for opportunities for them to happen). They don't seem like a device for author's convenience anymore, somehow.

Okay - two more there to address, and I shall.

Practical detail: to what extent should a writer fill in details that would be dull to read if they were there but which will be irritating if they aren't? Constant worry, that - and one that's worth discussing.


Coincidence in fiction: huge HUGE subject, and one about which I've thought a lot. As a catalyst to discussion, I'll say this...

Taking issue with Scher, I think there's one coincidence - maybe one and a stretched second - in Icebox. All other comings-together arise from character or from the conventions of fiction. I allow myself two coincidences per novel, and even then only within very strict criteria.

Which may be a bold assertion. Let's kick the hell out of it

[prendrelemick]

Mark> It'd be great to read your comments but please don't feel obliged to either. :)

Prendrelemick> Oh, thanks! Now I just want to go to the last page and find out what her surname is... But... must... resist... the temptation...

Read 2/3 now and finding it hard to put it down; I am like totally hooked!

- There was a time you could cash more than £250 from ATMs (or is this an indicator of my humble worldly riches?)

- Did Gabriel change his clothes and clean himself before leaving the hotel? It is surely impossible that he remained spotless after what he did...

- Initially I was a little put-off by the coincidences but, later on, as they kept happening, I began to enjoy and expect them (look for opportunities for them to happen). They don't seem like a device for author's convenience anymore, somehow.


Thats why I called it unashamedly fictional- the coincidences, the names, the end game,(can't say much more about that yet) the 500 pounds from a ATM, even the characters were not quite of the real world, a good thing once you accept it. Allows lots more leeway with the plot.

I thought the Unity/Rushmore meeting was one of the funniest things I've read in ages.

[Scheherazade]

Taking issue with ScherGee... Now, that's new...

:svengo:

Just to clarify... My questions regarding ATM or Gabriel's clothes (also couple of others that came up later on) are not for sake of nitpicking but just random questions that crossed my mind while reading.

Details> For me, it depends on the issue at hand and how it affects the story's flow and development: ATM does not matter, really; if people could take out £500, that is fine... If not, it is like microphone showing in a movie scene; no harm done as the amount of money he spends does not affect them as such.

Gabriel cleaning himself matters a little: Did he? How did he manage it between the time Unity called and the police arrived (shouldn't be more than a few minutes)? Since no one comments on any stains later on, this is, in my opinion, a more important detail than ATM.

Conincidences> Not sure what you mean by "All other comings-together arise from character or from the conventions of fiction." and how these are different from "coincidences": That story line takes characters to a certain place at a certain time and they don't just happen to be there? That there is a justification for them to be there?

(Sorry; don't speak authorese - just a humble reader).

a good thing once you accept it.Yes and fun; I was trying to guess who might appear where next.
I thought the Unity/Rushmore meeting was one of the funniest things I've read in ages.The second meeting?

- Any thoughts on the clock outside their office?

- The scene at the restaurant(s)?

- Can't help imagining this book as a movie.

- The ending? I did not expect it to end like this.

- I have never played "Happy Families" and had to look it up on the internet. And I now know what "insouciance" means.

[prendrelemick]

Both! but the punchline just before the second meeting, must be the longest wait for a punchline in the history of literature.

(where he remembers being recognised only as the pub singer's brother. I really feel for him at that moment.)


Practical details matter because it is important to go along with a piece of fiction. Every time something doesn't add up or is wrong, it gives you a jarr, it chips away at the suspension of disbelief, too much and you are back in your room reading a book, rather than in the story.

It is of course a judgement thing, I also don't want to be bogged down in detail. I understand why authors worry over this.

As for coincidence in fiction, half the plots ever divised depend on them.

[MarkBastable]

Gabriel cleaning himself matters a little: Did he? How did he manage it between the time Unity called and the police arrived (shouldn't be more than a few minutes)? Since no one comments on any stains later on, this is, in my opinion, a more important detail than ATM.

Actually, the change of clothes is mentioned.

[Scheherazade]

Actually, the change of clothes is mentioned.Ah, yes:

Gabriel had walked blindly for half an hour, clutching the canister to his chest, the rain soaking through the clean t-shirt and jeans he had dragged on after hanging up on Unity.

I stand corrected.

[MarkBastable]

About the names of the characters in Icebox....


I do not pick names lightly. I think about them for ages. The names that the characters end up with usually have some significance to me as the writer, though it's not necessariy something that I intend to pass on to the reader.

So if I say that, for instance, Unity's surname - Siddorn - is derived from an archaic word for 'shroud', and that that's pertinent to her character and function in the novel, I'm not suggesting that I expect any reader to know that, or that it's necessary to know it in order to get the most out of the book. It's just that the name means something to me, and it informs the way I write the character. Because of that, the choice of name doesn't have to be externally justifiable, as it were. I might call a character Basil because the word always reminds me of churches and the character is a vicar - and that completely idiosyncratic reference is enough for my purposes.

However, in some cases the name is pertinent to the novel in a much more concrete way. The scientist in Icebox, for instance, who promotes cryonic suspension after death is called Gabriel Todd. The surname is an echo of the German 'todt' - so Gabriel Todd is the Angel of Death.

The character Casey Rushmore invents his own name, just as he invents himself - and his choice is explained in the text.

Unity Siddorn. As I say, her surname is derived from an old word for 'winding sheet' or 'shroud'. Her first name is a reference to the idea in cosmic physics that there might be a single unifying theory that explains everything. When I started the novel, I thought it was going to deal with a wider range of 'hubristic science' than it actually ended up addressing, so I gave my fearful everywoman scientist a name that encapsulated all that.

Don Osman got his name simply because it amused me that one so cynical, hedonistic, humanist and profane very nearly shares a name with Donny Osmond. This eventually becomes a plot point - friendless in London, Gabe tracks Don down because he has a memorable name.

Willie Rabblestack, who is absolutely central to the story, was put in at first only because I knew that later I'd want to introduce his mother, Ma Rabblestack, who had come to me fully formed when I thought of her name. And I thought of her name when I was idly doodling on a notepad during a dull meeting. But for the introduction of a 'c', Ma Rabblestack is an anagram.

David Jennings, the self-effacing copper (who features much more prominently in Mischief) takes his surname from a former Tottenham Hotspurs soccer player - as do all the policemen in the book. I wanted him to have a very dull, unremarkable name. It's also the name of a schoolboy character I used to like when I was a kid.

Robert Spleen is so-called simply because I wanted to call his company Splendid, and I worked back facetiously from there. However, this is a good example of name influencing plot. I doubt I would have caused him to develop various cancers of his internal organs had I not given him that name.

Ellen is a sort of cypher - she's mysterious in a way that allows men to project onto her any ideal they wish - hence the echo of a generic 'elle' and the connection to the Greek Helen. I might insist that I gave her the surname Faustinelli just because I happened to be working in Holland with a woman who had that name. But that would be disingenuous, of course. In a novel, everything that makes it on to the page is there because a decision has been taken - so I must at some level have figured that it fitted her and her role. Where Casey is the agent of chaotic plot in the book, Ellen is the agent of calculated manipulation.

[qimissung]

Congratulations, MarkBastable, on being a published author. I looked it up and Amazon and there is one copy available, which I will order soon. I also found one review, and the plot does sound intriguing.

[Scheherazade]

Congratulations, MarkBastable, on being a published author. I looked it up and Amazon and there is one copy available, which I will order soon. I also found one review, and the plot does sound intriguing.Qimi, I enjoyed reading it. Please don't let the cover dissuade you; this is really one book not to be judged by its cover! :p
And I thought of her name when I was idly doodling on a notepad during a dull meeting. But for the introduction of a 'c', Ma Rabblestack is an anagram.Good one! :D I see your meetings are more productive than mine, which only help me develop my 3D-shape repertoire.

Now that we are talking about characters/names, any favorites?

Unity or Ellen? :p

[prendrelemick]

The Ellen character was the most puzzling, we never got inside her head as we did with the others, she was just there. By the end she is the main driver of the plot. Why? What are her motivations? We don't know and we never find out. Her surname got me thinking of Dr Faustus (Wrongly) with all the baggage that goes along with that, like playing games of chance for a mans soul (or head). But I was clutching at straws really,
Her mysteriousness makes her VERY attractive though.

[MarkBastable]

Both! but the punchline just before the second meeting, must be the longest wait for a punchline in the history of literature.

(where he remembers being recognised only as the pub singer's brother. I really feel for him at that moment.)

I'm glad about that. I try to write characters in such a way that the reader has mixed feelings about them - so that none of them are entirely sympathetic or completely unsympathetic. Icebox, for instance, doesn't have a hero or a villain - it doesn't even have a main character in any focussed way. The reader has to decide in whom to invest. In order to make that an unstraightforward choice, it's important that even a jerk like Casey in is portrayed as in some way likeable, or at least understandable.


As for coincidence in fiction, half the plots ever divised depend on them.

True - though I think there are conventions concerning what is and what isn't acceptable. More on that later.

[MarkBastable]

The Ellen character was the most puzzling, we never got inside her head as we did with the others, she was just there. By the end she is the main driver of the plot. Why? What are her motivations? We don't know and we never find out. Her surname got me thinking of Dr Faustus (Wrongly) with all the baggage that goes along with that, like playing games of chance for a mans soul (or head). But I was clutching at straws really,
Her mysteriousness makes her VERY attractive though.


Actually, there are two characters* inside whose head we never get - by which I mean, no scenes are written from their point-of-view, so everything we know about them comes through the perceptions of the other characters. One, as you say, is Ellen. And the other is Willie. The difference is that Willie is, as it were, integral to the cast, and Ellen is outside that circle. She's an agent of plot, rather than a part of it. And for that reason, she has to be kept 'clean' of motivation - because if she had any apparent desires or needs, they'd necessarily interact with those of the other characters, so we - the readers - would be obliged to take sides. That would confuse the issue.

In fact, at various points, both Don and Spleen wonder about Ellen's motives - which, of course simply makes her more intriguing. And, if you remember, when we first meet her, through Don's perceptions of her, we are asked to believe his assessment of her which is sustained for quite some time and which is entirely mistaken. So, from the start, we're aware that she's going to be difficult to fathom.



*Three, if you count Ma as a main character, which I tend to.

[prendrelemick]

The other character I have difficulty with is Casey Rushmore. A Harvard scholarship student, a high powered exec and an idiot. I have met these characters before (Tom Sharpe springs to mind) and always wonder how they got their job and any advancement. We had his back story and everything, but I couldn't see him doing his own break ins.

On a lighter note.
Freud would've had a field day with your Ma Rabblestack anagram.
How can you have Cyril Knowles outranking Pat Jennings and Alan Mullery?

[Scheherazade]

I read the first few pages, I missed a few of the references so i decided to stop until I could get near a computer or dictionary. My first impression is that it's very "English".I am not very familiar with the locations either (if that is what you mean). Don't know London well and wondered if the places mentioned had any significances.
Her surname got me thinking of Dr Faustus (Wrongly) with all the baggage that goes along with that, like playing games of chance for a mans soul (or head). But I was clutching at straws really,
I also thought of Faustus; because we never get to find her real motives or thoughts and without those, she does not sound like a real person; something lacking (a soul!)

Her mysteriousness makes her VERY attractive though.
I did not like her exactly for the very reason.

And I was rooting for Unity, who sounds more "real" to me... More complete as a character.
We had his back story and everything, but I couldn't see him doing his own break ins.I am not persuaded that someone like him would risk a break-in. Nor am I persuaded with his reasoning for the break-ins. I would have thought he would hire someone or something if he were really desparate.

How can you have Cyril Knowles outranking Pat Jennings and Alan Mullery?The footballer names were lost on me, needless to say (but I say it anyway).

[prendrelemick]

The Unity or Ellen choice Don is trying to make is worth a mention. There is no contest for me - Ellen every time, she's sharp witty and beautiful, I'm sure the sex would be up to par. (I mention the sex because Don feels its sex versus cerebral stimulation) It would've been a lot closer had she been a little less attractive.

But I'm a bloke and understand the draw of Unity- not only the plenty of sex draw. In the end she is vulnerable and needs him, Ellen never will. That is a big draw.

[MarkBastable]

Sorry. I've been so busy I appear to have neglected this thread - but I'll be back....


MB

[papayahed]

What does "Clovered a Ryvita" mean? I know it may be incidental but it's still bugging me.

[prendrelemick]

Spread a low fat butter substitute (Clover) on to a low fat crisp bread (Ryvita)

[MarkBastable]

Spread a low fat butter substitute (Clover) on to a low fat crisp bread (Ryvita)

Yeah. In terms of British cultural reference, it implies a lot about her. This is an example of my assertion that everything on the page should be there for a reason. If it just said, 'as she made toast' those four words would convey nothing really - they'd be contextual padding. But 'as she Clovered a Ryvita' tells you not only what she's doing but what kind of person she is to be doing it.

If the book had sold to the US, I'd've gone through an de-Anglicized the references.

I shall be back as soon as the pressue of real life lessens somewhat, in order to talk about this issue of coincidence in fiction. I promised I would, and I will.

[Paulclem]

Just got the book off Amazon. I've read a couple of pages - seems an amusing jaunt so far. I'll have to try to catch you up.

[Scheherazade]

What does "Clovered a Ryvita" mean? I know it may be incidental but it's still bugging me.Clover (http://www.cloverfamily.co.uk/)

Ryvita (http://www.ryvita.co.uk/)

Haven't tried Clover and didn't know people topped their Ryvita with Clover. Always associate Ryvita with cheese and dips.

Love the Multiseed Thins (http://www.ryvita.co.uk/products/thins/multiseed-thins)

I had taken the reference as an indication of her trying to eat healthy (as opposed to "buttered crumpets").

Paul> I am glad you are joining us :)

[papayahed]

I see your meetings are more productive than mine, which only help me develop my 3D-shape repertoire.


I know right? I'm really good at cubes and balloons.


In order to make that an unstraightforward choice, it's important that even a jerk like Casey in is portrayed as in some way likeable, or at least understandable.




I am not persuaded that someone like him would risk a break-in. Nor am I persuaded with his reasoning for the break-ins. I would have thought he would hire someone or something if he were really desparate.

At first Casey didn't ring true to me, a harvard grad, high powered business man yet he was soo mealy...on the other hand he always was the outsider and I'm supposing if one is desperate to get inside they will do anything.



And I was rooting for Unity, who sounds more "real" to me... More complete as a character.

None seemed all that "real" to me. I enjoyed the book but this is one of those books that one needs to suspend belief and just go with the story.

[Paulclem]

Good read Mark. I was distracted for a while on other things, but once I'd started it was a page turner. I likd the tension buildup at the end, and the very English humour was great. I thought the scene in the two restaurants with the dialogue flicking between the characters was very funny.

I don't know about the others, but with your photo in the book, I couldn't help picturing Don as you.:biggrin5: