Writers' Suicides

[Jozanny]

I know another member once created a suicide thread, one that more or less involved an interesting conceptual discussion, but I am interested in more factual data, and this is what I have so far, minus a few dates I do not feel like surfing willy nilly to insert (okay, okay, I fixed it...):

David Foster Wallace, hanging (2008)
Hunter S. Thompson, gunshot, (2005)
Spalding Gray, drowning? (2004)
James Leo Herlihy, pill overdose (1993)
Randall Jarrell, death by auto, speculative, (1965)
Sylvia Plath, oven gas (1963)
Ernest Hemingway, gunshot (1961)
Virginia Woolf, drowning (1941)

Anyone else I should note?

It is still somewhat popular in today's media to say poets & writers are more unstable and therefore their profession is dangerous; eh. Mental health treatments, barring lobotomy, do not have an entirely favorable success rate, even if we want to ascribe ever aspect of human behavior to medical model rationality.

[Sebas. Melmoth]

Anyone else I should note?

Yukio Mishima, seppuku [ritual stomach cutting] (1970)
Dylan Thomas, alcohol poisoning (1953)
Walter Benjamin, morphine poisoning (1940)
Edgar Allan Poe, alcohol poisoning (1849)

[sixsmith]

Arthur Koestler, overdosed with his wife (1983)
Hart Crane, jumped into the Gulf of Mexico (1932)
Primo Levi, jumped from the landing of his 3rd story apartment, *speculative (1987)
Petronius, self-inflicted blood loss (66AD)
Romain Gary, gunshot (1980)
Richard Brautigan, gunshot (1984)
Cesare Pavese, overdose (1950)



*Probable in my opinion.

[Brad Coelho]

Add Anne Sexton & John Kennedy O'Toole to the bulging list.

[Vautrin]

Dan Brown: A lethal combination of Angels & Demons, The Da Vinci Code, The Lost Symbol (2009)

The toxicology report concluded it was enough cheese to kill the careers of eight writers. He partied hard.

[Madame X]

Since it is speculated that, had he approached his trial with a bit more gravity, dear old Socrates could have gotten away with skipping into merry exile, I think his death by the infamous hemlock cocktail should count as well. :nod: 399 BC

Whether he's, technically, a real 'writer' shall be a matter of personal discretion.

[Sebas. Melmoth]

Jack London, morphine poisoning upon chronic alcoholism (1916)

[lallison]

hmmm...looks like we're at issue now as to what actually constitutes suicide.

[Babbalanja]

I agree with lallison, a lot of these aren't suicide in the strictest sense. Poe? Come on.


Primo Levi, jumped from the landing of his 3rd story apartment, *speculative (1987)

*Probable in my opinion.
Probable why?

I recall reading that people who knew Levi doubted it was a suicide. For a celebrated author, not leaving a suicide note is pretty suspicious. And since Levi was chemistry-savvy, he probably could have come up with a more reliable way to check out than falling down stairs.

Regards,

Istvan

[dfloyd]

than those of other professions, as alluded to by the poster. For example, Hemingway committed suicide after receiving several electric shock treatments of which he wasn't apprised of beforehand. While he was a noted drinker of alcohol, from which his health issues may have stemmed, he didn't kill him self because he was high strung. Today, he would never be treated in such a manner.

Virginia Woolf was schizophrenic and had started to hear voices in her head just prior to her drowning. Agiain, modern treatment could have possibly saved her life.

These are only two off the lists provided, but I suspect there are more than a few who suffered health problems which today could be more successfully treated.

[PeterL]

Yukio Mishima, seppuku [ritual stomach cutting] (1970)
Dylan Thomas, alcohol poisoning (1953)
Walter Benjamin, morphine poisoning (1940)
Edgar Allan Poe, alcohol poisoning (1849)

Poe certainly did not commit suicide, and the best explanation for his death is that it was from rabies.

[PeterL]

I do not know about all of the deaths mentioned, bu in at least two cases, Hemingwway and Thompson, the writers used suicide as a way to shorten the time before an inevitable death from cancer. I believe that those two made rational decisions.

[OrphanPip]

Maupassant tried to commit suicide by cutting his own throat, but he failed and was institutionalized as a result, and died four months later. Like Woolf, he may have been schizophrenic as well, or suffering from syphilis related mental health issues.

[dfloyd]

I know he had had multiple electric shock treatments to the brain shortly before his death. Can you give me your source for claiming he had cancer? In 1962, I read as many of his obituaries as I could, but never read where he had cancer or was being treated for it.

[kelby_lake]

I agree with lallison, a lot of these aren't suicide in the strictest sense. Poe? Come on.


Probable why?

I recall reading that people who knew Levi doubted it was a suicide. For a celebrated author, not leaving a suicide note is pretty suspicious. And since Levi was chemistry-savvy, he probably could have come up with a more reliable way to check out than falling down stairs.

Regards,

Istvan

I thought he just fell down them.

[Jozanny]

than those of other professions, as alluded to by the poster. For example, Hemingway committed suicide after receiving several electric shock treatments of which he wasn't apprised of beforehand. While he was a noted drinker of alcohol, from which his health issues may have stemmed, he didn't kill him self because he was high strung. Today, he would never be treated in such a manner.

Virginia Woolf was schizophrenic and had started to hear voices in her head just prior to her drowning. Agiain, modern treatment could have possibly saved her life.

These are only two off the lists provided, but I suspect there are more than a few who suffered health problems which today could be more successfully treated.

One, I myself do not think much of the idea that creativity necessarily attracts the mentally ill, or those prone to act on suicidal impulses, any more than any other field, but it remains current, despite Plath receding into history, that writers, especially poets, are more unstable than the general populace, and Woolf was never diagnosed with schizophrenia. The literature I have read suggests bipolar disorder, which is consistent with her writings for those who bother to study them.

Peter is also off in left field with his cancer thesis. Thompson crippled himself and was in a lot of pain, and that holds true for Hemingway as well, insofar as the biographical detail holds.

[PeterL]

I know he had had multiple electric shock treatments to the brain shortly before his death. Can you give me your source for claiming he had cancer? In 1962, I read as many of his obituaries as I could, but never read where he had cancer or was being treated for it.

http://www.americanwriters.org/writers/hemingway.asp
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/FAQ/7481

I was aware that he had cancer since way back, but it does not appear in many articles about him. Most places just mention the shock treatments he got at Mayo. I won't write what I think happened, because I don't remember the details clearly.

[PeterL]

Peter is also off in left field with his cancer thesis. Thompson crippled himself and was in a lot of pain, and that holds true for Hemingway as well, insofar as the biographical detail holds.

He seemed too much a cranky cynic to take his life because of depression. But a pragmatic choice in the face of incurable lung-cancer sounds about right.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1347724/posts

And there are other sources. The official bio says that he had "many painful and chronic medical conditions," and I believe that similar wording was used in the bio by Jann Wenner, et Als.

I just post a couple of links about Hemingway having had cancer. If you wish to believe that Hemingway and Thompson had other medical problems, that's your business.

[AuntShecky]

Because these writers are relatively well-known to us, we may think that writing as a profession has an inordinate number of suicides. But one would have to calculate the total number of writers committing suicide against the number of suicides in the general population, that is if you could actually calculate the exact numbers of writers who have ever existed. And what defines a person as a "writer"-- only those who make their living in that fashion or everyone who writes?

As for yours truly (a writer by the looser definition), I tell my friends that they never have to worry about my committing hari-kari. That's because when I look in my closet, I never find any clothes that I'd want to be caught dead in.

[PeterL]

As for yours truly (a writer by the looser definition), I tell my friends that they never have to worry about my committing hari-kari. That's because when I look in my closet, I never find any clothes that I'd want to be caught dead in.

There's an easy way around that. You could slay yourself in the nude, which would save the clothes from being stained, if you did do hari kari.

[Jozanny]

sixsmith et al:

Levi's case seems interestly problematic, as, although I am generalizing, suicide doesn't seem the norm for Holocaust survivors, but I'll have to do some reading.

[Mudge]

For a good assessment of Poe's life, including his enigmatic final days, I recommend Arthur Hobson Quinn's comprehensive biography.

As for other writers and poets; Michael Dorris (under a rather unfavorable cloud of suspicion, 1997)
Robert Gould Fletcher (1950)
James Robert Baker (1997)
Sarah Kane (1999)
Malcolm Lowry (1957)
Sara Teasdale, (1933)
Vachel Lindsay (1931)And some non-English writers too: Manuel Acuna (Mexican poet, 1873)
Akutagawa Ryunosuke (Japanese novelist, 1927)
Jean Amery (Austrian writer, 1978)
Gérard de Nerval (French writer, 1855)
May Ayim (German author, 1996)
Penelope Delta (Greek poet, 1941)
Kostas Karyotakis (Greek poet and writer, 1928)
Marina Tsvetaeva (Russian poet, 1941)
Jerzy Kosinski (Polish-American writer, 1991)
Karin Boye (Swedish writer, 1941)
Dazai Osamu (Japanese novelist, 1948)
Stefan Zweig (Austrian novelist, 1942)

[Revolte]

I had a feeling it was true that writers have a habbit of offing themselves, looks like I was right. Could be because we think more then normal people. Then again with so many people writing, and so many people who off themselves, there may be nothing to it. But I'd say those who write tend to be a bit off their rocker as apposed to those who don't.

[sixsmith]

I agree with lallison, a lot of these aren't suicide in the strictest sense. Poe? Come on.


Probable why?

I recall reading that people who knew Levi doubted it was a suicide. For a celebrated author, not leaving a suicide note is pretty suspicious. And since Levi was chemistry-savvy, he probably could have come up with a more reliable way to check out than falling down stairs.

Regards,

Istvan

Yeah look, allow me to retract that. It was probably inappropriate.

[Madame X]

Because these writers are relatively well-known to us, we may think that writing as a profession has an inordinate number of suicides. But one would have to calculate the total number of writers committing suicide against the number of suicides in the general population, that is if you could actually calculate the exact numbers of writers who have ever existed. And what defines a person as a "writer"-- only those who make their living in that fashion or everyone who writes?

According to an article I read some years back, some 80% of Americans (though I have no doubt the numbers would be similar around these parts as well) feel they deserve that distinction…regardless of whether they’ve ever put pen to paper; the talent, they feel, is latent. Ah, now if only they’d all jump off a cliff… :p

[Sebas. Melmoth]

Poe went on a drinking binge after he was refused in a marriage proposal.
He was found insensible, hospitalized, and died some hours later.
Suicide by alcohol (à la Leaving Las Vegas).
See Ken Silverman's critical bio:
http://www.amazon.com/Edgar-Poe-Mournful-Never-ending-Remembrance/dp/0060923318/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1273579122&sr=1-1

[Sebas. Melmoth]

Akutagawa Ryunosuke (Japanese novelist, 1927)
Gérard de Nerval (French writer, 1855)
Stefan Zweig (Austrian novelist, 1942)[/list]

Mudge: good call on Zweig, de Nerval, and Akutagawa--all quite significant authors.

[keilj]

I had a feeling it was true that writers have a habbit of offing themselves, looks like I was right. Could be because we think more then normal people. Then again with so many people writing, and so many people who off themselves, there may be nothing to it. But I'd say those who write tend to be a bit off their rocker as apposed to those who don't.

Naw. But it can be said that writers are more in touch with the realities of life - even the darker and more stark realities of life, human nature, and such. They are in touch with these things becasue a good writer observes the deeper truths of life, often unflinchingly. They stare down many of these truths becasue only by being in touch with such truths can a writer convey some of those things accurately in his/her writing.


For the OP, and anyone else interested in this topic, there is a book called The Van Gogh Blues that deals with creative people and depression

[PeterL]

The idea that Poe died from alcohol is absurd.

Snodgrass was convinced that Poe died from alcoholism and did a great deal to popularize this idea. He was a supporter of the temperance movement and found Poe a useful example in his temperance work. However, Snodgrass's writings on the topic have been proven untrustworthy.[2] Moran contradicted Snodgrass by stating in his own 1885 account that Poe did not die under the effect of any intoxicant. Moran claimed that Poe "had not the slightest odor of liquor upon his breath or person".[2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Edgar_Allan_Poe#Cause_of_death
In an analysis almost 147 years after his death, doctors at the University of Maryland Medical Center believe that writer Edgar Allan Poe may have died as a result of rabies, not from complications of alcoholism. Poe's medical case was reviewed by R. Michael Benitez, M.D., a cardiologist at the University of Maryland Medical Center. His review is published in the September 1996 issue of Maryland Medical Journal.
http://www.umm.edu/news/releases/news-releases-17.htm

http://www.eapoe.org/geninfo/poedeath.htm

[mal4mac]

Alcohol poisoning seems to be a common method.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deaths_through_alcohol

[AuntShecky]

There's an easy way around that. You could slay yourself in the nude, which would save the clothes from being stained, if you did do hari kari.

No way, dude! That's even worse --

though not as bad as having my punchline ruined. Aw, I kid, I kid.

[PeterL]

Lists like that aren't very useful, if one is looking for cause of death for a profession that is noted versus the population at large. All published authors have a public face, while only a very small percentage of bartenders have a public face, and the proportion of wine salesmen is even smaller. My guess is that a high percentage of wine salesmen die from an excess of alcohol, but finding the figures would be difficult.

For another example of a similar list for people who died from drug overdoese. You will notice that many musicians are listed, but you will find few, if any, drug dealers listed.

[Sebas. Melmoth]

Edgar Allan Poe may have died as a result of rabies

Okay. Have it your own way: Poe went on a drinking binge and was bitten by a mad raccoon.

[keilj]

Okay. Have it your own way: Poe went on a drinking binge and was bitten by a mad raccoon.

let's split it down the middle. he was bit by a mad pink elephant

:ladysman:

[PeterL]

Okay. Have it your own way: Poe went on a drinking binge and was bitten by a mad raccoon.

Actually, the idea that he was fatally injured by some political operatives is also a high possibility, but there was no sign that he had had alcohol when he was found.

[The Atheist]

I see Dylan Thomas also listed as a suicide. This is also absurd.

First off, the post mortem concluded that pneumonia was the cause of death (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dylan_Thomas#Death).

Secondly, alcoholism is a disease, and an alcoholic dying of alcohol poisoning wouldn't be classed as suicide.

[PeterL]

I see Dylan Thomas also listed as a suicide. This is also absurd.


Some people just think that all writers should commit suicide.

[Scheherazade]

Some people just think that all writers should commit suicide.Unfortunately, those who should not, would and those who should, would not.

[PeterL]

Unfortunately, those who should not, would, and those who should, would not.

All too true.

[JuniperWoolf]

Charlotte Perkins Gilman
D. A. Levy
Petronius
Abbie Hoffman
Adolf Hitler

[Niamh]

I see Dylan Thomas also listed as a suicide. This is also absurd.

First off, the post mortem concluded that pneumonia was the cause of death (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dylan_Thomas#Death).

Secondly, alcoholism is a disease, and an alcoholic dying of alcohol poisoning wouldn't be classed as suicide.

Ah you got there before me! I was surprised to see him on that list too.

[Tolstoy's Beard]

The sharper side of the double edged sword of having a creative mind, it never shuts up, turns down, or switches off.

[The Atheist]

Adolf Hitler

He was a painter, not a writer.

[Desolation]

I thought that Thompson shot himself because he thought that the government was coming after him, I never heard anything about cancer.


He was a painter, not a writer.

Ever heard of Mein Kampf?

[OrphanPip]

Ever heard of Mein Kampf?

Apparently he also wrote a fair amount of bad poetry.

[JuniperWoolf]

Apparently he also wrote a fair amount of bad poetry.

Haha, he would.

[Desolation]

Found one on a very disturbing website:

It was in the thicket of the Artois Wood.
Deep in the trees, on blood-soaked ground,
Lay stretched a wounded German warrior,
And his cries rang out in the night.
In vain ... no echo answered his plea ...
Will he bleed to death like a beast,
That shot in the gut dies alone?
Then suddenly ...
Heavy steps approach from the right
He hears how they stamp on the forest floor ...
And new hope springs from his soul.
And now from the left ...
And now from both sides ...

Two men approach his miserable bed
A German it is, and a Frenchman.
And each watches the other with distrustful glance,
And threatening they aim their weapons.
The German warrior asks:
"What do you do here?"
"I was touched by the needy one's call for help."

"It's your enemy!"
"It is a man who suffers."

And both, wordless, lowered their weapons.
Then entwined their hands
And, with muscles tensed, carefully lifted
The wounded warrior, as if on a stretcher,
And carried him through the woods.
'Til they came to the German outposts.
"Now it is over. He will get good care."
And the Frenchman turns back toward the woods.
But the German grasps for his hand,
Looks, moved, into sorrow-dimmed eyes
And says to him with earnest foreboding:

"I know not what fate holds for us,
Which inscrutably rules in the stars.
Perhaps I shall fall, a victim of your bullet.
Maybe mine will fell you on the sand —
For indifferent is the chance of battles.
Yet, however it may be and whatever may come:
We lived these sacred hours,
Where man found himself in man ...
And now, farewell! And God be with you!"

[JuniperWoolf]

Found one on a very disturbing website


I found the same website. For obvious reasons, I question it's authenticity.

[The Atheist]

Ever heard of Mein Kampf?

Not only heard of, read.

You missed the joke.

[OrphanPip]

Be Reminded - Hitler

When your mother has grown older,
When her dear, faithful eyes
No longer see life as they once did,
When her feet, grown tired,
No longer want to carry her as she walks,
Then lend her your arm in support, escort her with happy pleasure—
the hour will come when, weeping, you must accompany her on her final walk.

And if she asks you something, then give her an answer.
And if she asks again, then speak!
And if she asks yet again, respond to her, not impatiently, but with gentle calm.

And if she cannot understand you properly, explain all to her happily.
The hour will come, the bitter hour, when her mouth asks for nothing more.

This one apparently appeared in a German newspaper in 1933. I got it off wikipedia, and it provided a link to a biography (not a pro-Hitler one) on goolge books that discussed the poem. So, this one, albeit bad, is apparently authentic.

[tailor STATELY]

Interesting, albeit macabre, thread.

A quote attributed to Gore Vidal that I came across a few years ago [that still amuses me] might serve well in this thread:

"Write something, even if it's just a suicide note."

Now while I'm sure? that this was stated only to inspire one to write, it does give me pause to wonder if some poor writer has been struggling all his/her days perfecting the ultimate suicide note.

[Sebas. Melmoth]

I see Dylan Thomas also listed as a suicide. An alcoholic dying of alcohol poisoning wouldn't be classed as suicide.

Rubbish.

Unless of course someone forced open their mouth and poured liquor down their throat.

People do willfully drink themselves to death. Frequently.

(Just came to mind, the great saxophonist Lester Young...)

(Also Jim Morrison--who was quite a good poet...)

They all went on a drinking binge prior to death à la Leaving Las Vegas.

[Alexander III]

Rubbish.

Unless of course someone forced open their mouth and poured liquor down their throat.

People do willfully drink themselves to death. Frequently.

(Just came to mind, the great saxophonist Lester Young...)

(Also Jim Morrison--who was quite a good poet...)

They all went on a drinking binge prior to death à la Leaving Las Vegas.





By that logic those who die of lung cancer, committed suicide due to having made the conscious discussion to smoke in their youth. Furthermore those dying due to cholesterol and obesity issues all committed suicide as they chose to eat unhealthily in their lives. Heck by that logic most deaths are suicides.

I mean I smoke and drink and eat, and I know down the line it may get ugly, but its no where near the discussion of willfully ending your life in an immediate manner.

I believe you confuse irresponsibility and a form of hedonism with the willful conscious decision to end ones life immediately, which is suicide.

[keilj]

By that logic those who die of lung cancer, committed suicide due to having made the conscious discussion to smoke in their youth. Furthermore those dying due to cholesterol and obesity issues all committed suicide as they chose to eat unhealthily in their lives. Heck by that logic most deaths are suicides.

I mean I smoke and drink and eat, and I know down the line it may get ugly, but its no where near the discussion of willfully ending your life in an immediate manner.

I believe you confuse irresponsibility and a form of hedonism with the willful conscious decision to end ones life immediately, which is suicide.

i agree with this post - ie, just because you engage in dangerous activities, does not mean you have committed suicide

if it were so, then we could accuse all skydiving deaths of being suicides, or jet pilots who do aerial stunts, or race car drivers. They might know that these things could result in death - but they are not suicides

[PeterL]

By that logic those who die of lung cancer, committed suicide due to having made the conscious discussion to smoke in their youth. Furthermore those dying due to cholesterol and obesity issues all committed suicide as they chose to eat unhealthily in their lives. Heck by that logic most deaths are suicides.

I mean I smoke and drink and eat, and I know down the line it may get ugly, but its no where near the discussion of willfully ending your life in an immediate manner.

I believe you confuse irresponsibility and a form of hedonism with the willful conscious decision to end ones life immediately, which is suicide.

I'm glad you wrote that. I was thinking something along the same lines, but I would have been more emphatic.

[The Atheist]

Well, let's make it a consensus!

:D

[AuntShecky]

[QUOTE=Sebas. Melmoth;893750](Also Jim Morrison--who was quite a good poet...)

QUOTE]


http://www.online-literature.com/forums/blog.php?b=10391

[PeterL]

(Also Jim Morrison--who was quite a good poet...)



http://www.online-literature.com/forums/blog.php?b=10391

I think that was death by accidental overdoes. He was pretty good at what he did.

[Desolation]

i agree with this post - ie, just because you engage in dangerous activities, does not mean you have committed suicide

if it were so, then we could accuse all skydiving deaths of being suicides, or jet pilots who do aerial stunts, or race car drivers. They might know that these things could result in death - but they are not suicides

You know, if you keep going with this logic, you can classify pretty much all deaths as suicides. Got hit by a car? Well, you knew the risks when you walked across the street.

[Babbalanja]

You know, if you keep going with this logic, you can classify pretty much all deaths as suicides.
I have long suspected JFK of being involved in the JFK assassination.

Regards,

Istvan

[Cunninglinguist]

I am of the mind that the creative lifestyle naturally attracts those who are troubled deepest. Why? It is simple, really: when one is depressed they’re constantly trying to create solutions to solve their problems. In the case of many writers their attempted solutions were their literary works.

Perhaps the reason that writers have the highest suicide rate out of any other form of artist is because writing is one of, if not, the deepest form of expression, thus naturally attracts those who have the most to create, and those with the most to create are those who have the most problems to solve. Poetry/writing, unlike many other forms of art, has the potential for immense figurative and literal meaning, whereas in painting, for example, much of the meaning to be discovered is figurative, if therein even lies any (a good amount of painting only aims at producing an atmosphere).

I don’t think that writing leads to depression, but it is only correlated. But let me make clear that correlation does NOT equal causality. I have run into many people who make the mistake of equating correlation with causality and consequently generalizing the character of all writers as depressed.

[sixsmith]

I am of the mind that the creative lifestyle naturally attracts those who are troubled deepest. Why? It is simple, really: when one is depressed they’re constantly trying to create solutions to solve their problems. In the case of many writers their attempted solutions were their literary works.

Perhaps the reason that writers have the highest suicide rate out of any other form of artist is because writing is one of, if not, the deepest form of expression, thus naturally attracts those who have the most to create, and those with the most to create are those who have the most problems to solve. Poetry/writing, unlike many other forms of art, has the potential for immense figurative and literal meaning, whereas in painting, for example, much of the meaning to be discovered is figurative, if therein even lies any (a good amount of painting only aims at producing an atmosphere).

I don’t think that writing leads to depression, but it is only correlated. But let me make clear that correlation does NOT equal causality. I have run into many people who make the mistake of equating correlation with causality and consequently generalizing the character of all writers as depressed.

If i remember correctly, Styron makes some broadly similar points in his memoir, Darkness Visible.

[Jozanny]

If i remember correctly, Styron makes some broadly similar points in his memoir, Darkness Visible.

I own DV and I don't remember Styron putting it quite like that, though it has been awhile, and for subjective non-fiction it left a bad taste in my mouth.

I've always found Styron to be a bit priggish.

[JuniperWoolf]

I think that was death by accidental overdoes. He was pretty good at what he did.

It was listed as "heart failure," brought on by a lifetime of binge drinking and drugs. There's controversy about that, though. Some people think that his body was moved from a club where he overdosed to the bathtub in his appartment where Pam found him the next morning. Some people think that he didn't even die (which happens when anyone famous kicks the bucket).

[Jozanny]

Cunning: For a new member, you tap dance pretty well, but I am not sure it is that simple. You have suicides in the armed forces and high fiance as well, and these folks aren't looking for solutions to emotional pain.

When I was in university, looking back, I allowed despondency to make me sluggish and moody, but to my memory, this was not internally chronic, but writers probably are prone to having depression become chronic, for any number of reasons, probably most inclusive of personal loss, and in my case, too, the continual reminder that bylines mean absolutely nothing, but it is what we have to do.

I have had fans worship me and even back then, wanted nothing more than to kick them in the teeth for thinking what flowed out of my colon was gold, so I am not big on the fan base thing and only slipped up myself with icon worship 2 and a half times, the half being I sent Anne Rice a letter and in a nice way told her where she could shove it, so to speak--though it was a waste of time, because when Rose had her on his show her facial expression all but screamed it out that she was on the verge of hysteria. The bookmark her assistant sent me was cool though.

[The Atheist]

Some people think that he didn't even die (which happens when anyone famous kicks the bucket).

Jim's definitely alive; some say he's living in Oregon (http://www.classicbands.com/GeraldPittsInterview.html).

Others say the Seychelles (http://www.starpulse.com/news/index.php/2008/07/06/jim_morrison_alive_and_living_in_the_sey).

But this site is clearly the winner in knowing where Jimmy really is; who could doubt a site that says this about itself?


Wheatgrass was blown away by the heavy reality trip. She immediately called the Heathen World and sold us the story for thousands of dollars because of our renown journalistic integrity.

It's easily the most believable as it has Morrison out of his mind in a San Francisco nuthouse (http://www.heathenworld.com/music/morrison.aspx).

And all this time I thought he and Elvis were running a rental car company in Bogota...

[sixsmith]

I own DV and I don't remember Styron putting it quite like that, though it has been awhile, and for subjective non-fiction it left a bad taste in my mouth.

I've always found Styron to be a bit priggish.

I just had quick flick through DV and I think you are right Joz. I had much the same reaction as you and, for some reason, I always attributed it to Styron's conflation of emotional pain and artistic endeavour (no offense Cunning: doubtless there is fertile ground to be explored). Seeing things afresh, I suspect that my distaste for Styron's confessional pamphlet is due largely to his penchant for cliche: an extra fatal flaw when trying to explore the idiosyncrasies of mental illness.

[PeterL]

It was listed as "heart failure," brought on by a lifetime of binge drinking and drugs. There's controversy about that, though. Some people think that his body was moved from a club where he overdosed to the bathtub in his appartment where Pam found him the next morning. Some people think that he didn't even die (which happens when anyone famous kicks the bucket).

You mean that guy I ran into last week didn't just look like an older Jim Morrison

Perhaps we should remember that most writers are fairly ordinary people who live long lives that are sometimes happy. From those that I can think of there is much difference between the writings of the ones who may be mad and suicidal and those who are not.

If the use of drugs is a marker, then William S. Burroughs should have died before 1960, but he lived and wrote into his eighties.

[Sebas. Melmoth]

Wilde said 'the artistic life is a long and lovely suicide'.

http://www.amazon.com/Oscar-Wilde-Long-Lovely-Suicide/dp/0300068735/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1273925900&sr=1-1

[Cunninglinguist]

Cunning: For a new member, you tap dance pretty well, but I am not sure it is that simple. You have suicides in the armed forces and high fiance as well, and these folks aren't looking for solutions to emotional pain.

Cant the workoholic be using work as a solution to their emotional pain? I don't know if it's safe to assume that those men who kill themselves who arent writers arent using their work as a solution to their problems.

Everyone deals with their problems a little bit differently. But art attracts people who deal with their problems by thinking. Business attracts those who deal with their problems by over-working themselves. Drugs attract...etc. Of course everyone solves their problems with a mixture of methods, thus most writers are usually also workoholics and alcoholics. Perhaps just as none of the aforementioned methods actually work a writer sometimes culminates his problem solving career by taking his own life.

Also, Jozanny, I really appriciate the humor in your last paragraph of that post I quoted. :D

[Sebas. Melmoth]

Heard that dentists have an high suicide rate.

[PeterL]

Heard that dentists have an high suicide rate.

Spending their days with their fingers on other people's mouths does strange things to some of them.