The most important thing ?

[Alexander III]

I have a intriguing question which i have been pondering as of late.

In a novel out of the following three which do you deem to be the most important

-Beautiful and creative prose

-Characters which one truly connects with

-The plot

-Intellectual properties

( and it would be appreciated if you guys don't answer that all four are equally important, I want to know out off the four, for you which do you deem the most important?)

[Buh4Bee]

Hey A3,
Can you make this into a poll?

For me, I like a good plot, with characters that carry me through the intellectual parts written in beautiful prose. If the novel is somewhat philosophical or intellectual, but the plot is mediocre, I may not be willing to work for the story's message. Beautiful prose, I consider, like a nice glass of wine. They matter, but not as much when compare to an engaging plot, well developed characters, and thought provoking philosophy/intellectual message. On the other hand, if there is no intellectual point, I may put down a book and deem it as unstimulating.

Upon thinking about this, one may recognize why trash is so popular.

[Alexander III]

hehe I tried making it into a poll but I had an incredible technological fail when trying, so I just left it as it was. Now I fear it may be to late to change into into a poll.

I am glad you answered the question in a straight forward manner :)

[scaltz]

A good plot can normally mask horrible writing. The time traveler's wife for example. The writing is close to atrocious but the plot actually makes it readable and somewhat addictive-- yaa a real page turner. It's quantity of symbolism in it is one of the reasons to read it.

[Desolation]

For me, it's a toss-up between beautiful writing and intellectual properties. Although, it's rare that I'll enjoy a book if there aren't any characters that I can connect to.

I can say definitely that, in my personal opinion, the plot is of almost no importance. When it comes to movies and TV shows, yeah, the plot is at the top of the list. But for some reason, I really don't care about the plot when it comes to books. In fact, most of the books that I enjoy have almost no plot whatsoever.

[scaltz]

For me, it's a toss-up between beautiful writing and intellectual properties. Although, it's rare that I'll enjoy a book if there aren't any characters that I can connect to.

I can say definitely that, in my personal opinion, the plot is of almost no importance. When it comes to movies and TV shows, yeah, the plot is at the top of the list. But for some reason, I really don't care about the plot when it comes to books. In fact, most of the books that I enjoy have almost no plot whatsoever.




Didn't you just contradict yourself? Doesn't the plot weighs A MAJORITY on choosing your choice of whether liking a book or not? A good plot really doesn't exist in reality for we all have our personal tastes, our personal reference on identifying a good plot. Indeed, there are some people who like Twilight and some people who like Harry Potter. When you say "no plot" do you mean "slice of life" genres? because a story book can't have no plot except for documents and scientific books of course.

[Dark Muse]

This is a tough question. While I do highly appreciate a book with creative and beautiful prose, and such will go a long way with me in reading, I can enjoy a book which is lacking in prose if it has other strong elements.

As well books which have good prose I may develop little liking for if they lack for me in other areas.

Characters a certainly very important to me. It is extremely difficult for me to get through a book and to really enjoy it, if I I do not care for the characters and just feel "blah" about them. Even if I really dislike the characters it is preferably over being apathetic to them. As long as the characters move me in some way, or have some quality to them which really catches my attention.

Plot is also very important to me. As someone had previously mentioned before, with a good, unique and captivating plot, weak prose can be more readily forgiven.

Intellectual properties like good prose, will certainly greatly enhance my reading experience, and will take a book up to the next level in making it outstanding, as well as enriching to read, but I do enjoy books which are not necessarily as in depth. I do like to be challenged in my reading, I like to have my mind blown away, but I also do read for personal pleasure first and for most and my personal pleasure does not always require my mind to work in overdrive.

If had to pick thee most important thing in a book for me it really would be a toss up between characters and plot, those two elements for me have to be working together. Though I suppose plot would take the edge just slightly over characters if I had to choose one to be above the other.

[The Comedian]

hehe I tried making it into a poll but I had an incredible technological fail when trying, so I just left it as it was. Now I fear it may be to late to change into into a poll.

I am glad you answered the question in a straight forward manner :)

If you PM Scher or papaya (the forum mods) and ask them to add a poll (which is a good idea), they'll do it for a $100 and a bottle of single malt.

Kidding about that last part. . . .:)

EDIT: A novel, for me, is all about characters. A novel could have the greatest plot ever devised, but if the reader can't connect with the characters, then who gives a hraka about the plot? The reader will have no emotional stake in the plot if he or she cannot connect with the characters. But a great character, well, a great character could make filling out her tax return interesting.

[Brad Coelho]

I, on the other hand, provide little to no wiggle room for horrid prose, even if it is merely the dressing for the meaty skeleton of a plot. Prose is the brush of the artist, and while vacuity can only be dressed up so much...the aesthetic is a compulsory component for any like I who drools in salivary literature fluids.

[JBI]

I'm for valuing it on two grounds - one, the range and sustainability of its characters, whether cartoon or deep, and secondly on how close its prose is to poetry.

[LitNetIsGreat]

I really don't think that you can divorce these elements from each other - they are all part and parcel of what makes a good novel. However, for me it comes back to the quality of the writing time and time again. If the quality of writing is good enough then all the other things should naturally fit into place.

[Revolte]

I'm ganna have to go with plot. It was a toss up between beautiful writing and plot though. But grrrr... At the same time I think that creative writing could make a crappy or bland plot something amazing. You know what, while i'm typing this, I'm changing my answer to beautiful and creative prose. I think how it's written can mold the other aspects into something interesting.

[Alexander III]

I just realized I didn't answer the question hehe, for me it would be the characters; as was said above if I link with the characters reading about them doing their taxes would be interesting

[Cygnus X-2112]

For me it's a tie between beautiful writing and characters. I don't necessarily need to connect with the character, but i need to find the character or his/her actions facinating. As long as a character is interesting enough to me, i'll keep going to find out what happens to him/her.

[Scheherazade]

In a novel out of the following three which do you deem to be the most important

-Beautiful and creative prose

-Characters which one truly connects with

-The plot

-Intellectual properties You have listed four items...

:p
If you PM Scher or papaya (the forum mods) and ask them to add a poll (which is a good idea), they'll do it for a $100 and a bottle of single malt.

Kidding about that last part. . . .:)Yeah, "no can I" for anything less than $250... and single malt??? :rolleyes:

Frozen margaritas!!!

[TurquoiseSunset]

For me it's the plot. Depending on what you mean exactly by 'connecting with the characters' I would say as long as they aren't cartoon versions of people then I don't mind about the characters. Actually, apart from the plot, the rest are pretty much equally important.

[LitNetIsGreat]

For me it's the plot. Depending on what you mean exactly by 'connecting with the characters' I would say as long as they aren't cartoon versions of people then I don't mind about the characters. Actually, apart from the plot, the rest are pretty much equally important.

Hmm, for me if the writing is not good enough then no amount of plot is going to make up for it. Books which are purely plot driven are usually of the lowest order.

[TurquoiseSunset]

Hmm, for me if the writing is not good enough then no amount of plot is going to make up for it. Books which are purely plot driven are usually of the lowest order.

I hear you, but I really meant that if the writing was just okay I could live with it if the plot was good. E.g. I know loads of people will disagree and say they were wonderful books but Catcher in the Rye and the Sun Also Rises are, for me, examples of books I gave up because I found the writing to be uninspiring and the plots very blah. I know some love those stories, but I didn't. Maybe if they had better plots (according to my specific taste) I would've liked them more...

Then Dan Brown, dun dun dunnnnn, I liked Digital Fortress a lot, because of the plot, but certainly not the writing. Silly example, but it's the first I could think of.

All of the options AlexIII gave us are important...plot is just my fav between all of them, only because I'm not even going to try with a book if the plot's bad. I recently finished a book that had a good plot, but cartoon characters and awful writing. The writing was, possibly, the translator's fault in part, but I would never know as I can't read French. Anyway, I really didn't love it, but it would have been so much worse had the plot been crap too. So essentially the plot saved the story for me.

Maybe I'm talking crap...you be the judge...but just this one time hear? :D

[LitNetIsGreat]

:yikes: Not The Sun Also Rises - there's a few knocking that one recently!!!


Then Dan Brown, dun dun dunnnnn

Ha ha - exactly! That is the type of book I was thinking about when I mentioned plot driven books. I rest my case...

The thing is there are a lot of great books out there with virtually no plot at all. At least Woolf is famous for it! In one book a woman goes out to buy flowers in another they think about a day trip to a coastal erection - the point is (some would disagree) there are moments in those of sheer brilliance. Even if that is an extreme example you get the idea. However, when I come across bad writing, like in that person whom I can't mention above, I just want to shoot somebody close-by - for me there is no room for bad writing.

[Alexander III]

in another they think about a day trip to a coastal erection .

:party:

[MorpheusSandman]

I think I'd vote "characters" without the "you can sympathize with" addendum. For me, fascinating characters that I can't identify with can be just as interesting as those I do. The reason I think characters trump every other aspect is because, on some level, we as humans are always relating our life experiences back to how they're relevant to us. To do so it helps if there is some analog for us represented in narrative. The problem with focusing on narrative is that, formally, there are only so many stories that continue to get told over and over in slightly differing forms. So the real trick is getting a character to take us through a narrative so we can care about it. I'd say the same thing applies to the themes. There are many intellectually satisfying works which fail because they lack an emotional connection to make us care about those elements.

I think the quality of the prose would fall under the category of general aesthetics. If there's any element that could make up for a lack of character interest it would be this. Because if a work of literature can make me feel through the quality and sensuousness of the language the way I feel while, say, staring at a great painting or a photograph then it's achieved something special. And aesthetics is another element that can make me care about a work's intellectual elements. But, by and large, I'd still say that characters are the life line between the reader and the world of a novel. If that connection doesn't exist, then everything else may be valuable as an admirable curiosity, but it will likely never move us or really make us care.

[TurquoiseSunset]

:yikes: Not The Sun Also Rises - there's a few knocking that one recently!!!


Then Dan Brown, dun dun dunnnnn

Ha ha - exactly! That is the type of book I was thinking about when I mentioned plot driven books. I rest my case....

Sometimes, NOT always, the plot redeems the horrible writing. It also depends on what I expect from the book to begin with. I never expect Dan Brown to be Pulitzer Prize winning stuff.

But alright then! I plead guilty to sometimes reading books of the "lowest order". :D


The thing is there are a lot of great books out there with virtually no plot at all. At least Woolf is famous for it! In one book a woman goes out to buy flowers in another they think about a day trip to a coastal erection - the point is (some would disagree) there are moments in those of sheer brilliance. Even if that is an extreme example you get the idea. However, when I come across bad writing, like in that person whom I can't mention above, I just want to shoot somebody close-by - for me there is no room for bad writing.

I haven't read Woolf yet, but I'll try and let you know ;) I'm sure there are many great books where plot matter less.

"that person whom I can't mention" Heh, Dan Brown, the one who must not be named, bwhuhahaha (so there I inlcuded two infamous writers :D)

[ktm5124]

I believe that, historically, writers have felt obliged to entertain their audience through suspenseful plots. In the 20th century there arose movements that retaliated against this idea - advocating stories that focused on the characters and the quality of writing.

There seems to be a prevailing opinion that plot is largely linked to entertainment. Since entertainment is one of the less noble endeavors of a novel, plot is relegated as a lesser aspect. But do you think that there exists, in addition to its entertainment value, an aesthetic to plot? Furthermore, we are able to explore human nature through the characters in a novel. Can something similar be said about the plot of a novel?

I think that if we cannot answer these questions in the affirmative, then plot truly is a lesser aspect of the novel.

[LitNetIsGreat]

But do you think that there exists, in addition to its entertainment value, an aesthetic to plot? Furthermore, we are able to explore human nature through the characters in a novel. Can something similar be said about the plot of a novel?

I think that if we cannot answer these questions in the affirmative, then plot truly is a lesser aspect of the novel.

I think that is an interesting question. I think that there could be some sort of aesthetic to a plot, rarely I would have thought though - I'll have to think on it...

[anzki4]

The Plot is, in my opinion, the most important thing. Secondary comes the Characters. Those two make a good book.

Beautiful and creative prose and Intellectual properties are, for me, equally important. If the book has good plot, "good" characters, and either good prose or intellectual properties it is a excellent book. If it has all of them, it is perfect.

[Mudge]

Plot comes last on my list, well behind the other three.

Up top, it's a toss-up, and much depends on what I am seeking in any given book. But all things being equal, I'll go with the quality of the writing.

[TurquoiseSunset]

I believe that, historically, writers have felt obliged to entertain their audience through suspenseful plots. In the 20th century there arose movements that retaliated against this idea - advocating stories that focused on the characters and the quality of writing.

That's a good thing. There should be different movements, different ways for the reader to connect to a book. People read for different reasons, and all have their own preferences.


There seems to be a prevailing opinion that plot is largely linked to entertainment. Since entertainment is one of the less noble endeavors of a novel, plot is relegated as a lesser aspect.

en-ter-tain-ment
–noun
1.the act of entertaining; agreeable occupation for the mind; diversion; amusement.
2.something affording pleasure, diversion, or amusement, esp. a performance of some kind.
3.hospitable provision for the needs and wants of guests.
4.a divertingly adventurous, comic, or picaresque novel.

Yes, plot is linked to entertainment, and I don't see why entertainment should be a "less noble endeavour[s] of a novel". A plot can and should be entertaining, exiting, suspenseful or dramatic to varying degrees. It doesn't have to be a-thrill-a-minute, but for me, it needs SOME meat.


But do you think that there exists, in addition to its entertainment value, an aesthetic to plot?

Yes, in my opinion, there can be aesthetic value to a plot.


Furthermore, we are able to explore human nature through the characters in a novel. Can something similar be said about the plot of a novel?

I do think plots can add to the psychology of characters. Stories will always have plots even if they are character driven ones. We are not discussing plot-driven vs. character-driven as it's not in-line with the OP, I think.

But that aside, my original point was that if I have to choose I choose plot only slightly above the rest. However, I would rather not choose at all, because I believe all the elements the OP lists to be important to a story. A novel can be good with some of the elements missing, that's true, but it won't hurt if people try for all of them when writing a book. As for plot-driven vs. character-driven (http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52982), I have no preference actually, I read both.

Anyhoo, I don't want to argue...to each his own.

[RaoulDuke]

I would marginally rate "Beautiful and creative prose" higher than the others. For me, if a book has characters I can relate to, an interesting plot or any thought provoking "intellectual properties" then I will no doubt enjoy reading it but I won't completely lose myself in it, and it may take a week or more to finish reading. But if it's beautifully written I find it easier to get totally engrossed in the book and really power through it.